Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
news
So what? We've already agreed they're brigs, not brigantines, and
the owners also describe them as brigs. It's a matter of fact that
they are equipped to carry up to five square sails on the main mast,
and a spanker as well.

No WE haven't established any such thing. We don't agree here.

What do you disagree with? That the two TSYT ships are brigs,
or that it's a fact that they can carry 5 squares and a spanker
on their main masts? The TSYT website confirms both!

I say if it has a fore and aft mainsail then it's a brigantine.

I'd agree.

You say it's a brig.

No.

I say it's a brig only if it's square rigged all the way.

I'd disagree.

A spanker isn't a gaff mainsail, it's much smaller than a mainsail on
a brigantine would be. I'm not sure what its exact purpose is, but
I guess it may be to help keep the vessel out of irons should it
attempt to tack other than by wearing ship.

I should have said you DO NOT use them both at the same time. The
picture of the two brigs sailing together

So you *DO* agree they TSYT vessels are brigs.

clearly show square rigged on
both masts all the way to the deck.

Indeed they do, but you can't tell from that picture whether the
spankers are also set (or if not set, then at least present). Are
you trying to imply that if they were, it would make a difference?

Are you trying to imply that the other pictures (which show views from
a better angle, and where you can see that the spanker *is* set
and the square main is present but not set) are of brigantines?

These other pictures are of (one of) the *same* ships! It doesn't
change from being a brig to being a brigantine simply by putting up
a different partial selection of its available sails, such as by
setting the spanker, just like a cutter does not become a sloop when
it takes down one of its two jibs.

What makes it a brig is that it *has* a square mainsail (you say)
or that it *has* any square sails on the main mast (I say) available
to set, not whether it is (or they are) actually set at any particular
moment, just as what makes a one-masted boat a cutter is that it *can*
set two jibs.

If it *can* fly *any* squaresails on the mainmast then it's not a
brigantine but a brig.

Wrong! the only thing that makes it a brigantine is the fact it carries
a gaff mainsail. If it carries no gaff mainsail then it's a brig.

Then we disagree. The definitions I've seen refer to whether the
main mast (which is the after mast) *is square rigged* (which I take
to mean that it's capable of setting square sails), not whether it
has a square mainsail (being the bottom sail on the main mast).

Show me an authoritative independent definition which supports your
version.