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McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
Peter Skelton wrote:
:On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:00:23 -0700, Fred J. McCall wrote: : :Taxes based on income should be flat. They distort the economy the :least that way and allow it to function closer to its optimum levels. : : :That, of course, is a religious statement, devoid of proof and :unprovable. : No, Peter, that is a basic fact, as you would know if you knew anything at all about Economics. -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." -- Thomas Jefferson |
McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
"Eisboch" wrote:
: :"wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265- : :the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!! :how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains? : Start taxing capital gains at an even more confiscatory level and see just what happens to "much of middle class" retirement. : :that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have :to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from :capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING :for a living : Yes, the wealthy never do anything, do they? Makes you wonder how they got and stayed wealthy... : :--------------------------------- : :It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and :capital gains taxes. : :Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains :penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy :which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities. : :The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it doesn't :mean it's bad for all. : In point of fact, capital gains is a PUNITIVE tax. The rich didn't put it in place. Morons like Eisboch did. -- "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory." --G. Behn |
McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
frank wrote:
: : : Yes, and you know JFK changed that because it was ****ing up the : economy so badly, right? : : :No Fred you're a liar and an idiot. : Well, there's a telling and fact-based rebuttal. About what one would expect from a political shill like Frank. : :He cut taxes as there was no government spending or deficit at the :time and he was concerned that there would be too much money in the :Federal treasury and that would distort the economy. : :We have not been in that condition since. : We weren't in that condition THEN, either. You just don't really let reality intrude, do you, Frank? Public debt was a higher percentage of GDP *THEN* than it is now (45% vs 38%). A few quotes for you to show you what JFK was thinking. I doubt it will change your silly misinterpretation, above, since you don't let reality affect your opinions, but perhaps this time will be the first and you will like the change. "It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now ... Cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus." – John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, president's news conference "Lower rates of taxation will stimulate economic activity and so raise the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few years an increased – not a reduced – flow of revenues to the federal government." – John F. Kennedy, Jan. 17, 1963, annual budget message to the Congress, fiscal year 1964 "In today's economy, fiscal prudence and responsibility call for tax reduction even if it temporarily enlarges the federal deficit – why reducing taxes is the best way open to us to increase revenues." – John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: "The Economic Report Of The President" "Our tax system still siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power and reduces the incentive for risk, investment and effort – thereby aborting our recoveries and stifling our national growth rate." – John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, message to Congress on tax reduction and reform, House Doc. 43, 88th Congress, 1st Session. "A tax cut means higher family income and higher business profits and a balanced federal budget. Every taxpayer and his family will have more money left over after taxes for a new car, a new home, new conveniences, education and investment. Every businessman can keep a higher percentage of his profits in his cash register or put it to work expanding or improving his business, and as the national income grows, the federal government will ultimately end up with more revenues." – John F. Kennedy, Sept. 18, 1963, radio and television address to the nation on tax-reduction bill "Our present tax system ... exerts too heavy a drag on growth ... It reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking ... The present tax load ... distorts economic judgments and channels an undue amount of energy into efforts to avoid tax liabilities." – John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, press conference "In short, it is a paradoxical truth that ... the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now. The experience of a number of European countries and Japan have borne this out. This country's own experience with tax reduction in 1954 has borne this out. And the reason is that only full employment can balance the budget, and tax reduction can pave the way to that employment. The purpose of cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus." – John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, news conference : :With the rising debt (doubled under this idiot), and the interest in :the debt, up to $405 billion this year, WE NEED TO **** CAN the tax :cuts. WHY DO YOU THINK REAGAN HAD THE LARGEST TAX INCREASE IN HISTORY :RIGHT AFTER HE HAD THE LARGEST TAX CUT? IT DID NOT WORK. IT WAS VOODOO :ECONOMICS. Bush I was right in that case. : And debt is still not at the level it was at under JFK. It also hasn't "doubled" in any real terms, although it has gone up (which usually happens when you're fighting a war). In 2000 public debt was a bit over 35% of GDP. Now it's about 38% of GDP (predicted for 2008). For historical comparison, that number in 1950 (coming out of WWII and into Korea and the Cold War) was OVER 80% OF GDP. As for your all uppercase statement, I think you're lying. Let's see a cite. : :You may think you have a degree in the field but you're an idiot who :doesn't know what he's talking about. : :Go back in your cage and play with your feces until its feeding time. : Now there's a telling factual analysis in rebuttal. You're pathetic, Frank. -- "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." -- Socrates |
McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
Fred J. McCall wrote:
Peter Skelton wrote: :On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:00:23 -0700, Fred J. McCall wrote: : :Taxes based on income should be flat. They distort the economy the :least that way and allow it to function closer to its optimum levels. : : :That, of course, is a religious statement, devoid of proof and :unprovable. : No, Peter, that is a basic fact, as you would know if you knew anything at all about Economics. Thanks for proving his point. Dan |
McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
On Sep 14, 8:53*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265- the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!! how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains? that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING for a living --------------------------------- It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and capital gains taxes. Some see it your way. * Others see the reduction of the capital gains penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities. and others see that an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is an honorable thing...except for the 'capital gains' class of folks who, in their elitist mindset, sneer at honest labor and don't think the middle class deserves even to be PAID for their work The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it doesn't mean it's bad for all. the fact you think the middle class is a bunch of morons speaks for itself. |
McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
"wf3h" wrote in message ... On Sep 14, 8:53 am, "Eisboch" wrote: "wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265- the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!! how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains? that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING for a living --------------------------------- It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and capital gains taxes. Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities. and others see that an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is an honorable thing...except for the 'capital gains' class of folks who, in their elitist mindset, sneer at honest labor and don't think the middle class deserves even to be PAID for their work The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it doesn't mean it's bad for all. the fact you think the middle class is a bunch of morons speaks for itself. ------------------------------------------------------------- I am a member of the middle class. I am not a moron. I am also realistic and knowledgeable enough to know that a growing world global economy was being talked about by AGore, back in the early 90's, and the changes it would have on the US job market and economy. You have to prepare for and adjust to the times, not wait until your job disappears and then waste all your time and energy complaining about it. EIsboch |
McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
Fred J. McCall wrote:
frank wrote: : :Bull****. Take a decent economics course, if they offer any anymore. : I have a degree in the field, Frank. You're an idiot. : :Progressive income tax with higher rates for richest is the way to go. :Flat tax is worst on the poor. Hell everybody agreed on that until :these stupid Republicans under Reagan took over. : Wrong. Progressive taxes are the MOST distortive to market forces. Flat taxes distort the least and hence are the way to go. If 'everyone agreed' until Reagan, why did JFK make taxes much less regressive (and thereby stimulate both the economy and government tax receipts)? Me! Me! I know! Pick me! Um, because they started at different initial conditions, ALEX? I really hate the dishonest NeoCon/Republican One-Size-Fits-All approach to life ("Takes all the mystery out of it."). PLEASE someone remail this so Fred can see it - she has pretty much killfiled anyone who disagrees with her, ostrich that she is. :You know under Eisenhower, tax rate was 91% for some of the highest :brackets? Yes, and you know JFK changed that because it was ****ing up the economy so badly, right? Yeah, so why did Reagan mess with the economy by lowering taxes, then? :You know some of them actually complained to the Treasury :Secretary, and his response was, pay your damn taxes, you can afford :it. You are gaining the largess due to what this country provides for :you. From infrastructure to safe means to park your funds. Cite? I think you're lying again. You don't get economic value out of the interstate highway system? People who ship more goods do not get a disproportional advantage from the same system? You need a cite for that? :The only people advocating a flat tax are the super rich who would :make a killing on it You're lying again. "Only" is hyperbole - there are some uneducated folks who are not rich who have been convinced by their NeoCon handlers to believe it, also. Half point to Fred. :(its only income and they would not count investments as income). You're lying again. No, he is just describing one such plan. In fact, most flat tax plans I have seen do give steep discounts or free rides to capital gains, earned disproportionately by people with the most disposable income (both as "working" compensation and as investments). :Why the hell is Forbes so gung ho on it? Because he actually understand what you do not; non-flat taxes on income distort the economy. But flat-taxes also distort the economy. ANY economic activity, whether by private, semi-private, or public agents, "distorts the economy," by your definition, so what was your point? What gain do you actually expect to see from a flat tax? You have never actually stated any, just your view that it would not "distort the economy" somehow. What BENEFITS are there in a flat tax? What drawbacks are there in a flat tax? An honest debater would list several in each category, since there are many in each category. :To :help the middle class? Hell no. He has no clue how you live. Neither :does McCain or his wife. Anybody got a quarter mil earrings for the :wife lately? Thought not. Well, you can thank the Reagan / Bush tax :cuts for them getting richer and richer and ****ing away more than :you'd pay on a house for ear candy. Jealousy is SO ugly, Frank. Jealousy? Methinks you should peruse a dictionary before you next put finger to keyboard. You and your "eat the rich; the poor are tough and stringy" crowd make me nauseous. Where do you think the jobs come from? Small businesses trying to make a go of it in a big business world and government. That is the record of the Bush plan; the losses come mainly from big businesses shipping jobs overseas for tax breaks and small businesses shopping out manufacturing to overseas facilities. The US needs approximately 250,000 NET new jobs per month JUST TO STAY EVEN - the Bush economy hasn't even met THAT goal more than a time or two... Yet their "stimulus plans" have cost the country trillions of dollars, not even factoring in the war. Those tax cuts sure have been wonderful... :Look at how many people are millionaires or billionaires. And how many :Americans have lost their jobs or houses? These tax cuts are killing :the US Now go look at who is paying the taxes, Frank... Now, not too many people, which is why the deficit and the debt have ballooned under the current administration, EVEN WITH people taking equity out of their homes (which are NOW losing value) so they could get by. Face it Fred, your plan has screwed the country - and you want MORE of it. Just what DO you do that you want to screw your neighbors so much? .................................................. ................. Poor Frank, can't even get to the level of being killfiled by Fred. Keep trying - if you put enough rational information out there, Fred will have no choice but to killfile you. Think of it as a badge of honor. .................................................. ................. Dan |
McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:13:55 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message ... On Sep 14, 8:53 am, "Eisboch" wrote: "wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265- the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!! how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains? that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING for a living --------------------------------- It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and capital gains taxes. Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities. and others see that an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is an honorable thing...except for the 'capital gains' class of folks who, in their elitist mindset, sneer at honest labor and don't think the middle class deserves even to be PAID for their work The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it doesn't mean it's bad for all. the fact you think the middle class is a bunch of morons speaks for itself. ------------------------------------------------------------- I am a member of the middle class. I am not a moron. I am also realistic and knowledgeable enough to know that a growing world global economy was being talked about by AGore, back in the early 90's, and the changes it would have on the US job market and economy. You have to prepare for and adjust to the times, not wait until your job disappears and then waste all your time and energy complaining about it. EIsboch Sorry, Eichman, but we've seen pictures of your gentleman's farm and many of your toys. You do not even remotely qualify as middle class, unless you recently moved to Monaco and didn't tell us. |
McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:04:18 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote: On Sep 14, 8:53Â*am, "Eisboch" wrote: "wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265- the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!! how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains? that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING for a living --------------------------------- It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and capital gains taxes. Some see it your way. Â* Others see the reduction of the capital gains penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities. and others see that an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is an honorable thing...except for the 'capital gains' class of folks who, in their elitist mindset, sneer at honest labor and don't think the middle class deserves even to be PAID for their work Funny thing about this is it depends on who is up and who is down. When I went into IT I found myself among a bunch of "elitists" who really thought they deserved to be making 7 time more than a good cook or 3 times more than a bricklayer. Many were lazy. I never understood how somebody could come into work, and start reading the newspaper. Some at least had the decency to take a trip to the toilet and sit in a stall to read. They generally - not in front of me, they knew better - disparaged factory production workers whose jobs were off-shored, and unions. Then their jobs started being off-shored. The whining began. Unions became acceptable. But how do ballerinas organize? They can't. Too late. So they became Democrats. I've said this before. Until their cable TV is gone and they have trouble putting food on the table, nothing will change. Good chance McCain gets elected. I've got no problem with that. We always get what we deserve. Or fight for. --Vic |
McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
"wf3h" wrote in message ... On Sep 13, 11:36 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote: "wf3h" wrote in message ... On Sep 13, 1:07 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote: hk wrote: :Fred J. McCall wrote: : wf3h wrote: : : : :c'mon harry...don't you have the $5,000,000 that mccain says makes : :you middle class? : : : : I think that's a great level at which to say taxes shouldn't be : increased. : : You WANT to pay more taxes? I think we need a program that lets you : folks pick your own tax rate and not steal from the rest of us... : : :I think anyone with income of more than $5 million a year ought to be :paying twice the amount of taxes they're paying now. : Why? -- why not? the largest increase in marginal tax rates occurs on the middle class. the wealthy get a tax rate of 15% on capital gains (which is alot less than the middle class pays) AND gets to write off losses. they get the best of all worlds. Same 15% you get to pay on capitol gains. EXACTLY!!! gee even YOU get it!! thank you!! the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!! how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains? that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING for a living They have left the investment untouched for a long period of time. And those capitol gains can only be written off up to the the capitol losses + $1000. my heart bleeds for them. Huge part of the middle class gets the benifits of Capitol gains taxes. Fact is, everybody gets the bennies. If you invest in a business or stock ownership, and do not day trade, you get the benifit. And most of the middle class is invested in the stock market one way of the other. Plus the point of capitol gains is to get CAPITOL invested. All those jobs created in the last at least 1000 years are from some person investing capitol and time in a business. I owned a business at one time and the employees were very happy to have a job and get a paycheck each week. I and my buddy invested $50k and a lot of time in the business. I think the employees made more per hour then we did. I could have put that in a long term CD and made +10-12% (was the Carter years), but we gambled that we could get a better return on starting a business. Maybe you should invest in the stock market. May be able to move out of the lowest tax bracket. As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people. Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place. You have to elect legislators who do not waste money. And the Republicans with the help of the Dem's over 7 of the last 8 years have wasted lots. The Dem's in charge of the checkbook the last year, and they have not slowed down waste. 40 of the last 50 years have been Dem's in charge of the checkbook. They have not done well. |
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