On Sep 16, 8:39*am, wf3h wrote:
On Sep 15, 11:29*pm, wrote:

On Sep 15, 11:40*pm, wf3h wrote:

On Sep 15, 9:55*pm, wrote:

The truth of your free health care is that I get to pay for mine and I
get to pay for yours

which you do now. it's just more expensive now than it would be under
universal care.

I get first dibs at the doctors under the present system. *And why
shouldn't I? *I'm paying for it.

so you enjoy having average health care for inflated prices?

I enjoy paying my own way.

yep sounds republican.

Yeh, that whole, ummm, personal responsibility thingy really upsets
some folks.

Under the squirrels and the hawkes system, I pay for theirs and I pay
for mine, and some else says who gets dibs on appointments and
treatments.

never heard of an HMO did you? they tell you what doctors you'll go
to, what treatment they'll pay for, etc.

I could have selected the HMO route and paid less. Instead I selected
a Preferred Choice plan.

Under the plan where I pay for my health care and I pay for your
health care, I get less than the HMO. Why would I want that?

you really HAVE swallowed the GOP kool aid, haven't you? you don't
have control over your health care at all. your boss does. your
insurance company does.

As it stands now, I can change plans and I can change bosses.

Under the plan where I pay for me and I pay for you, I have fare fewer
choices because there just isn't enough money to go around.

I guess I should work harder, huh?

you don't.

You don't.

of course, if you lose your job and don't want health care, just
refuse it...for you and your kids. i won't mind

That, in part, is what motivates me to keep working. *If only we could
motivate the little squirrel and the little hawke to work...

and if your company decides you and 5000 other folks need to get
canned?

Then I move. There aren't enough jobs in Ohio to soak up another
5,000 unemployed. Or... I could become a short-sale "investor."

oh. you're SO valuable your company would NEVER do that....just like
they didnt at ATT, TI, HP, etc.

Not at all. My neck is on the chopping block right now. I'll
probably know by Christmas. I'm planning on moving should my job
evaporate. Sayonara Ohio, and Ohio can say sayonara to my tax base,
my education, and my earnings capacity. Florida, Texas, or Missouri
would like to have me in their work force.

wrote:
On Sep 16, 8:39*am, wf3h wrote:
On Sep 15, 11:29*pm, wrote:

On Sep 15, 11:40*pm, wf3h wrote:

On Sep 15, 9:55*pm, wrote:

The truth of your free health care is that I get to pay for mine and I
get to pay for yours

which you do now. it's just more expensive now than it would be under
universal care.

I get first dibs at the doctors under the present system. *And why
shouldn't I? *I'm paying for it.

so you enjoy having average health care for inflated prices?

I enjoy paying my own way.

Even if it costs you half again as much.

Sucker.

yep sounds republican.

Yeh, that whole, ummm, personal responsibility thingy really upsets
some folks.

If you're so in favor of "personal responsibility" then why don't you
insist on higher taxes?

Under the squirrels and the hawkes system, I pay for theirs and I pay
for mine, and some else says who gets dibs on appointments and
treatments.

never heard of an HMO did you? they tell you what doctors you'll go
to, what treatment they'll pay for, etc.

I could have selected the HMO route and paid less. Instead I selected
a Preferred Choice plan.

As opposed to paying your own way?

you really HAVE swallowed the GOP kool aid, haven't you? you don't
have control over your health care at all. your boss does. your
insurance company does.

As it stands now, I can change plans and I can change bosses.

And if you get sick or injured and can't work, you can't get any
plan, you can't get any job, and you and your family go broke.

The leading cause of personal bankruptcies is medical emergencies.

--
Ray Fischer

On Sep 16, 11:24*pm, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
wrote:
On Sep 16, 8:39*am, wf3h wrote:
On Sep 15, 11:29*pm, wrote:

On Sep 15, 11:40*pm, wf3h wrote:

On Sep 15, 9:55*pm, wrote:

The truth of your free health care is that I get to pay for mine and I
get to pay for yours

which you do now. it's just more expensive now than it would be under
universal care.

I get first dibs at the doctors under the present system. *And why
shouldn't I? *I'm paying for it.

so you enjoy having average health care for inflated prices?

I enjoy paying my own way.

Even if it costs you half again as much.

Sucker.

Just like when I buy a car. I could purchase a hundai or a lexus. Is
anyone driving anything other than a hundai a sucker?

yep sounds republican.

Yeh, that whole, ummm, personal responsibility thingy really upsets
some folks.

If you're so in favor of "personal responsibility" then why don't you
insist on higher taxes?

Why don't you pay your taxes?

Under the squirrels and the hawkes system, I pay for theirs and I pay
for mine, and some else says who gets dibs on appointments and
treatments.

never heard of an HMO did you? they tell you what doctors you'll go
to, what treatment they'll pay for, etc.

I could have selected the HMO route and paid less. *Instead I selected
a Preferred Choice plan.

As opposed to paying your own way?

It is part of my compensation package. There will always be an
additional "co-pay" to keep malingerers from overtaxing the system.

you really HAVE swallowed the GOP kool aid, haven't you? you don't
have control over your health care at all. your boss does. your
insurance company does.

As it stands now, I can change plans and I can change bosses.

And if you get sick or injured and can't work, you can't get any
plan, you can't get any job, and you and your family go broke.

Me? I keep myself employed. I make it a point to do so. I consider
it my "responsibility" to provide for myself and my family.

So should I have a catastrophic injury or health event, I'm covered.

The leading cause of personal bankruptcies is medical emergencies.

And making health care free to everyone who doesn't work is going to
make it better for me who is paying the bills? How?

--
Ray Fischer * * * *

wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
wrote:
On Sep 16, 8:39*am, wf3h wrote:
On Sep 15, 11:29*pm, wrote:

On Sep 15, 11:40*pm, wf3h wrote:

On Sep 15, 9:55*pm, wrote:

The truth of your free health care is that I get to pay for mine and I
get to pay for yours

which you do now. it's just more expensive now than it would be under
universal care.

I get first dibs at the doctors under the present system. *And why
shouldn't I? *I'm paying for it.

so you enjoy having average health care for inflated prices?

I enjoy paying my own way.

Even if it costs you half again as much.

Sucker.

Just like when I buy a car. I could purchase a hundai or a lexus. Is
anyone driving anything other than a hundai a sucker?

You pay for a Lexus and get a Hyundai.

yep sounds republican.

Yeh, that whole, ummm, personal responsibility thingy really upsets
some folks.

If you're so in favor of "personal responsibility" then why don't you
insist on higher taxes?

Why don't you pay your taxes?

Such an intelligent response.

Under the squirrels and the hawkes system, I pay for theirs and I pay
for mine, and some else says who gets dibs on appointments and
treatments.

never heard of an HMO did you? they tell you what doctors you'll go
to, what treatment they'll pay for, etc.

I could have selected the HMO route and paid less. *Instead I selected
a Preferred Choice plan.

As opposed to paying your own way?

It is part of my compensation package.

Smirk.

There will always be an
additional "co-pay" to keep malingerers from overtaxing the system.

Doesn't seem to work that way in other countries.

But you're a class bigot who hates poor people, aren't you?

you really HAVE swallowed the GOP kool aid, haven't you? you don't
have control over your health care at all. your boss does. your
insurance company does.

As it stands now, I can change plans and I can change bosses.

And if you get sick or injured and can't work, you can't get any
plan, you can't get any job, and you and your family go broke.

Me? I keep myself employed. I make it a point to do so. I consider
it my "responsibility" to provide for myself and my family.

And what happens if you CANNOT work? What then?

So should I have a catastrophic injury or health event, I'm covered.

No, you're not. All the health plans limit payouts.

The leading cause of personal bankruptcies is medical emergencies.

And making health care free to everyone who doesn't work is going to
make it better for me who is paying the bills? How?

You are already paying for other people's health care. The medical
industry raises prices in order to cover the expense of treating those
who cannot pay.

Once again: Health care in the US costs about 50% PER PERSON than it
costs in any other industrial nation. Administrative overheads,
profits, and inefficiences drive up the cost of health care in the US.

--
Ray Fischer

On Sep 17, 10:13*pm, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
wrote:
On Sep 16, 8:39*am, wf3h wrote:
On Sep 15, 11:29*pm, wrote:

On Sep 15, 11:40*pm, wf3h wrote:

On Sep 15, 9:55*pm, wrote:

The truth of your free health care is that I get to pay for mine and I
get to pay for yours

which you do now. it's just more expensive now than it would be under
universal care.

I get first dibs at the doctors under the present system. *And why
shouldn't I? *I'm paying for it.

so you enjoy having average health care for inflated prices?

I enjoy paying my own way.

Even if it costs you half again as much.

Sucker.

Just like when I buy a car. *I could purchase a hundai or a lexus. *Is
anyone driving anything other than a hundai a sucker?

You pay for a Lexus and get a Hyundai.

It's my money. Yet you insist that I buy us both hyundais.

yep sounds republican.

Yeh, that whole, ummm, personal responsibility thingy really upsets
some folks.

If you're so in favor of "personal responsibility" then why don't you
insist on higher taxes?

Why don't you pay your taxes?

Such an intelligent response.

Squirrely doesn't or at least says he won't be paying any under Obama.

Under the squirrels and the hawkes system, I pay for theirs and I pay
for mine, and some else says who gets dibs on appointments and
treatments.

never heard of an HMO did you? they tell you what doctors you'll go
to, what treatment they'll pay for, etc.

I could have selected the HMO route and paid less. *Instead I selected
a Preferred Choice plan.

As opposed to paying your own way?

It is part of my compensation package.

Smirk.

Some people even get a company car...

*There will always be an
additional "co-pay" to keep malingerers from overtaxing the system.

Doesn't seem to work that way in other countries.

Yet they still come here for services they can't get there.

But you're a class bigot who hates poor people, aren't you?

Is that what I am?

you really HAVE swallowed the GOP kool aid, haven't you? you don't
have control over your health care at all. your boss does. your
insurance company does.

As it stands now, I can change plans and I can change bosses.

And if you get sick or injured and can't work, you can't get any
plan, you can't get any job, and you and your family go broke.

Me? *I keep myself employed. *I make it a point to do so. *I consider
it my "responsibility" to provide for myself and my family.

And what happens if you CANNOT work? *What then?

Short term... sick leave, health insurance. Long term... workman's
compensation, medical retirement, medicare, savings.

So should I have a catastrophic injury or health event, I'm covered.

No, you're not. *All the health plans limit payouts.

And health care where there are double the number of folks covered
won't be limited? Wow! Where does all the money come from?

The leading cause of personal bankruptcies is medical emergencies.

And making health care free to everyone who doesn't work is going to
make it better for me who is paying the bills? *How?

You are already paying for other people's health care. *The medical
industry raises prices in order to cover the expense of treating those
who cannot pay.

Then what's the problem?

Once again: *Health care in the US costs about 50% PER PERSON than it
costs in any other industrial nation. *Administrative overheads,
profits, and inefficiences drive up the cost of health care in the US.

If it's 50% of what other countries pay then we're getting a deal.

--
Ray Fischer * * * *
*- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:50:25 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:

Squirrely doesn't or at least says he won't be paying any under Obama.

Cite?

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Chickenhawks
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.................................................. ...............
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Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:50:25 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:

Squirrely doesn't or at least says he won't be paying any under Obama.

Cite?

You know neocons - they like to make up facts to justify their
irrational agenda.

--
Ray Fischer

On Sep 18, 11:24*am, Curly Surmudgeon
wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:50:25 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:
Squirrely doesn't or at least says he won't be paying any under Obama.

Cite?

You have a bad memory?

wrote:
On Sep 17, 10:13*pm, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
wrote:

so you enjoy having average health care for inflated prices?

I enjoy paying my own way.

Even if it costs you half again as much.

Sucker.

Just like when I buy a car. *I could purchase a hundai or a lexus. *Is
anyone driving anything other than a hundai a sucker?

You pay for a Lexus and get a Hyundai.

It's my money. Yet you insist that I buy us both hyundais.

Because of your greed and selfishness we all end up paying more.

Yeh, that whole, ummm, personal responsibility thingy really upsets
some folks.

If you're so in favor of "personal responsibility" then why don't you
insist on higher taxes?

Why don't you pay your taxes?

Such an intelligent response.

Squirrely doesn't or at least says he won't be paying any under Obama.

Gesundheit.

never heard of an HMO did you? they tell you what doctors you'll go
to, what treatment they'll pay for, etc.

I could have selected the HMO route and paid less. *Instead I selected
a Preferred Choice plan.

As opposed to paying your own way?

It is part of my compensation package.

Smirk.

Some people even get a company car...

COMPANY health care and COMPANY car.

*There will always be an
additional "co-pay" to keep malingerers from overtaxing the system.

Doesn't seem to work that way in other countries.

Yet they still come here for services they can't get there.

Yet Americans still go to other countries for services they can't get
here.

But you're a class bigot who hates poor people, aren't you?

Is that what I am?

Is that an admission?

As it stands now, I can change plans and I can change bosses.

And if you get sick or injured and can't work, you can't get any
plan, you can't get any job, and you and your family go broke.

Me? *I keep myself employed. *I make it a point to do so. *I consider
it my "responsibility" to provide for myself and my family.

And what happens if you CANNOT work? *What then?

Short term... sick leave, health insurance. Long term... workman's
compensation, medical retirement, medicare, savings.

A recent estimate put the lifetime cost of health care for seniors
at $300,000 above medicare. One major illness and you'll double that.
Workman's comp only applies to on-the-job injuries.

So should I have a catastrophic injury or health event, I'm covered.

No, you're not. *All the health plans limit payouts.

And health care where there are double the number of folks covered
won't be limited?

Health care isn't limited. Peyments by insurance companies is
limited.

The leading cause of personal bankruptcies is medical emergencies.

And making health care free to everyone who doesn't work is going to
make it better for me who is paying the bills? *How?

You are already paying for other people's health care. *The medical
industry raises prices in order to cover the expense of treating those
who cannot pay.

Then what's the problem?

The emergency care that people get when they're really sick is much
more expensive than the routine care they'd get if there was a
national health care.

Once again: *Health care in the US costs about 50% PER PERSON than it
costs in any other industrial nation. *Administrative overheads,
profits, and inefficiences drive up the cost of health care in the US.

If it's 50% of what other countries pay then we're getting a deal.

50% MORE than then next most expensive.

--
Ray Fischer

On Sep 18, 1:10*pm, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
wrote:
On Sep 17, 10:13*pm, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
wrote:
so you enjoy having average health care for inflated prices?

I enjoy paying my own way.

Even if it costs you half again as much.

Sucker.

Just like when I buy a car. *I could purchase a hundai or a lexus. *Is
anyone driving anything other than a hundai a sucker?

You pay for a Lexus and get a Hyundai.

It's my money. *Yet you insist that I buy us both hyundais.

Because of your greed and selfishness we all end up paying more.

My money. My problem. I can live with it.

Yeh, that whole, ummm, personal responsibility thingy really upsets
some folks.

If you're so in favor of "personal responsibility" then why don't you
insist on higher taxes?

Why don't you pay your taxes?

Such an intelligent response.

Squirrely doesn't or at least says he won't be paying any under Obama.

Gesundheit.

never heard of an HMO did you? they tell you what doctors you'll go
to, what treatment they'll pay for, etc.

I could have selected the HMO route and paid less. *Instead I selected
a Preferred Choice plan.

As opposed to paying your own way?

It is part of my compensation package.

Smirk.

Some people even get a company car...

COMPANY health care and COMPANY car.

*There will always be an
additional "co-pay" to keep malingerers from overtaxing the system.

Doesn't seem to work that way in other countries.

Yet they still come here for services they can't get there.

Yet Americans still go to other countries for services they can't get
here.

But you're a class bigot who hates poor people, aren't you?

Is that what I am?

Is that an admission?

Is that "honest dialog?"

As it stands now, I can change plans and I can change bosses.

And if you get sick or injured and can't work, you can't get any
plan, you can't get any job, and you and your family go broke.

Me? *I keep myself employed. *I make it a point to do so. *I consider
it my "responsibility" to provide for myself and my family.

And what happens if you CANNOT work? *What then?

Short term... sick leave, health insurance. *Long term... workman's
compensation, medical retirement, medicare, savings.

A recent estimate put the lifetime cost of health care for seniors
at $300,000 above medicare. *One major illness and you'll double that.
Workman's comp only applies to on-the-job injuries.

Then let's make sure I get injured off the job so your statistics come
out right for you.

So should I have a catastrophic injury or health event, I'm covered.

No, you're not. *All the health plans limit payouts.

And health care where there are double the number of folks covered
won't be limited?

Health care isn't limited. *Peyments by insurance companies is
limited.

Ahem, it's limited now. That's why I have it and the little squirrel,
the little hawke, and you don't have it and want me to share mine.

The leading cause of personal bankruptcies is medical emergencies.

And making health care free to everyone who doesn't work is going to
make it better for me who is paying the bills? *How?

You are already paying for other people's health care. *The medical
industry raises prices in order to cover the expense of treating those
who cannot pay.

Then what's the problem?

The emergency care that people get when they're really sick is much
more expensive than the routine care they'd get if there was a
national health care.

But you said $300,000 above medicare... and health care is unlimited.

Do you even know what it is your talking about?

Once again: *Health care in the US costs about 50% PER PERSON than it
costs in any other industrial nation. *Administrative overheads,
profits, and inefficiences drive up the cost of health care in the US.

If it's 50% of what other countries pay then we're getting a deal.

50% MORE than then next most expensive.

Oh, more than. Good thing I have a real job and can afford it.