"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"Raymond O'Hara" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...

Perhaps the Obamessiah could stand on the levees and order the ocean
not to come in.
Or at least hope.

Eisboch

that still would be more than the chimpenfuhrer did.


Hi Harry.

Eisboch



More than 70% of the country feels that Bush is a general foch-up.
"Chimpenfuhrer" is not a term I've heard before, but it seems apt. Perhaps
your view of the real world is clouded by the number of righties in here
who feel compelled to defend Bush's every failure.



I am *so* confused .......

Eisboch

hk wrote:

:Raymond O'Hara wrote:
: "Eisboch" wrote in message
: ...
: "hk" wrote in message
: . ..
:
: no the feds had the responsibility.
: and 100 school buses that hold 40 people aren't going to evacuate a city
: of several hundred thousand.
:
: nothing is ever the chimps fault is it.
:
:
:
: But...Bush had all of years of "executive experience," as a business
: executive and governor, and, of course, all that "military experience."
:
: What he didn't have and doesn't have is judgment. and neither does
: McCain.
:
: That situation was totally screwed up from the beginning. Seems to me
: Bush initially did what he was supposed to ..... make federal help
: available, but the operational decisions were left up to local and state
: governments, as they should have been. Bush earned the reputation of
: being too late to act because the locals dragged their feet. If I recall
: correctly, Bush had to *order* them to start an evacuation.
:
: Eisboch
:
:
:
:
: bush was at a fund raiser in arizona.
: he never ordered anything.
: the city state and feds had worked out a plan.
: the feds didn't do their part.
:
:
:Not just on this issue, but on every issue, the amount of
:rationalization that you see to make excuses for the utter incompetent
f the Bush Administration is simply mind-boggling.
:

You poor, stupid gits. Has it not sunk in over the past 8 years that
when you suspend reason and try to blame Bush for everything that it
merely invalidates any discussion of all the places bad decisions were
actually made?

I suggest you all need to go read the story of the boy who cried
wolf...

--
"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."
-- Mark Twain

On Aug 30, 7:58 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message

. ..



Eisboch wrote:
"Raymond O'Hara" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...

Perhaps the Obamessiah could stand on the levees and order the ocean
not to come in.
Or at least hope.

Eisboch

that still would be more than the chimpenfuhrer did.

Hi Harry.

Eisboch

More than 70% of the country feels that Bush is a general foch-up.
"Chimpenfuhrer" is not a term I've heard before, but it seems apt. Perhaps
your view of the real world is clouded by the number of righties in here
who feel compelled to defend Bush's every failure.

I am *so* confused .......

Eisboch

RAy:

You evacuate BEFORE the storm, not after. Blanco and Nagin knew they
were going to get a near hit as early as Aug 25 and did nothing. I
was surprised that by Thursday they hadnt ordered anything to happen.
They did absolutely nothing till Saturday thus wasting two days in
which evac could have been done. THEY KNEW ON THURS THEY WERE GONNa
GET HIT.
This was in spite of an article in SCi AM the previous year detailing
exactly what would happen in such a storm. Blanco could have asked
for more NAt Guard troops before Sat and prepositioned them at the
Dome and Con center but did not. They completely ignored their own
hurricane plan. This exhibits the general inability of Dems to do any
logical thinking, all appearance and nothing real, just what you'd
expect from Hollywood.

On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:31:32 -0700, ohara5.0 wrote:


You evacuate BEFORE the storm, not after. Blanco and Nagin knew they
were going to get a near hit as early as Aug 25 and did nothing. I was
surprised that by Thursday they hadnt ordered anything to happen. They
did absolutely nothing till Saturday thus wasting two days in which evac
could have been done. THEY KNEW ON THURS THEY WERE GONNa GET HIT.
This was in spite of an article in SCi AM the previous year detailing
exactly what would happen in such a storm. Blanco could have asked for
more NAt Guard troops before Sat and prepositioned them at the Dome and
Con center but did not. They completely ignored their own hurricane
plan. This exhibits the general inability of Dems to do any logical
thinking, all appearance and nothing real, just what you'd expect from
Hollywood.

BS, here's a time-line, so you can get your story straight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...ricane_Katrina

wrote in message
...

RAy:

You evacuate BEFORE the storm, not after. Blanco and Nagin knew they
were going to get a near hit as early as Aug 25 and did nothing. I
was surprised that by Thursday they hadnt ordered anything to happen.
They did absolutely nothing till Saturday thus wasting two days in
which evac could have been done. THEY KNEW ON THURS THEY WERE GONNa
GET HIT.
This was in spite of an article in SCi AM the previous year detailing
exactly what would happen in such a storm. Blanco could have asked
for more NAt Guard troops before Sat and prepositioned them at the
Dome and Con center but did not. They completely ignored their own
hurricane plan. This exhibits the general inability of Dems to do any
logical thinking, all appearance and nothing real, just what you'd
expect from Hollywood.


All this blaming is directed at the wrong people.

It was the National Weather Service's fault, if you really want to call it a
fault or cast blame.

If you recall, Katrina didn't hit exactly where it was forecast to hit and,
although the initial storm damage was bad, it wasn't catastrophic.

It was the storm surge that took it's toll on the levies, causing them to
let go that caused the major problems and that didn't happen right away.
The storm track that caused this was not predicted by the National Weather
Service. I suspect that was part of the reason for a delay in the
evacuation decisions and also the decisions by many to stay there and ride
out the storm.

Eisboch

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
hk wrote:

:Raymond O'Hara wrote:
: "Eisboch" wrote in message
: ...
: "hk" wrote in message
: . ..
:
: no the feds had the responsibility.
: and 100 school buses that hold 40 people aren't going to evacuate a
city
: of several hundred thousand.
:
: nothing is ever the chimps fault is it.
:
:
:
: But...Bush had all of years of "executive experience," as a business
: executive and governor, and, of course, all that "military
experience."
:
: What he didn't have and doesn't have is judgment. and neither does
: McCain.
:
: That situation was totally screwed up from the beginning. Seems to me
: Bush initially did what he was supposed to ..... make federal help
: available, but the operational decisions were left up to local and
state
: governments, as they should have been. Bush earned the reputation of
: being too late to act because the locals dragged their feet. If I
recall
: correctly, Bush had to *order* them to start an evacuation.
:
: Eisboch
:
:
:
:
: bush was at a fund raiser in arizona.
: he never ordered anything.
: the city state and feds had worked out a plan.
: the feds didn't do their part.
:
:
:Not just on this issue, but on every issue, the amount of
:rationalization that you see to make excuses for the utter incompetent
f the Bush Administration is simply mind-boggling.
:

You poor, stupid gits. Has it not sunk in over the past 8 years that
when you suspend reason and try to blame Bush for everything that it
merely invalidates any discussion of all the places bad decisions were
actually made?

I suggest you all need to go read the story of the boy who cried
wolf...


bush is responsible.
they were warned about bin laden wanting to strike the U.S.A using airliners
but it was ignoered
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/

he was warned N.O. was under the gun but instead went to a fund raiser and
photo ops in arizona and cali
http://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/


the yellowcake saddam9/11 connection was disproved before we invaded.
so exactly what isn't his fault.

On Aug 30, 8:56*pm, "Raymond O'Hara"
wrote:
"Fred J. McCall" wrote in messagenews:u9pjb49h3r7fdabqhrm56oai4es6tfcrs3@4ax .com...





hk wrote:

:Raymond O'Hara wrote:
: "Eisboch" wrote in message
om...
: "hk" wrote in message
om...
:
: no the feds had the responsibility.
: and 100 school buses that hold 40 people aren't going to evacuate a
city
: of several hundred thousand.
:
: nothing is ever the chimps fault is it.
:
:
:
: But...Bush had all of years of "executive experience," as a business
: executive and governor, and, of course, all that "military
experience."
:
: What he didn't have and doesn't have is judgment. and neither does
: McCain.
:
: That situation was totally screwed up from the beginning. *Seems to me
: Bush initially did what he was supposed to ..... make federal help
: available, but the operational decisions were left up to local and
state
: governments, as they should have been. * Bush earned the reputation of
: being too late to act because the locals dragged their feet. * If I
recall
: correctly, Bush had to *order* them to start an evacuation.
:
: Eisboch
:
:
:
:
: bush was at a fund raiser in arizona.
: he never ordered anything.
: the city state and feds had worked out a plan.
: the feds didn't do their part.
:
:
:Not just on this issue, but on every issue, the amount of
:rationalization that you see to make excuses for the utter incompetent
f the Bush Administration is simply mind-boggling.
:

You poor, stupid gits. *Has it not sunk in over the past 8 years that
when you suspend reason and try to blame Bush for everything that it
merely invalidates any discussion of all the places bad decisions were
actually made?

I suggest you all need to go read the story of the boy who cried
wolf...

*bush is responsible.
they were warned about bin laden wanting to strike the U.S.A using airliners
but it was ignoeredhttp://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/

he was warned N.O. was under the gun but instead went to a fund raiser and
photo ops in arizona and calihttp://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/

the yellowcake saddam9/11 connection was disproved before we invaded.
so exactly what isn't his fault.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What about the hundreds of scientists and trucks that dissappeared
into Lebanon in the 6 weeks or so while France and Russia stalled us
going in? What about the known fact that Iraq was putting all of their
facilities on wheels in the ten years between wars? It's always been a
catch 22 for Bush. I think a lot of folks in congress know exactly
where the stuff is but knowing Bush can't say anything makes it easy
for the Dems to use that against him...

On Aug 30, 9:23 pm, wrote:
On Aug 30, 8:56 pm, "Raymond O'Hara"
wrote:



"Fred J. McCall" wrote in messagenews:u9pjb49h3r7fdabqhrm56oai4es6tfcrs3@4ax .com...

hk wrote:

:Raymond O'Hara wrote:
: "Eisboch" wrote in message
om...
: "hk" wrote in message
om...
:
: no the feds had the responsibility.
: and 100 school buses that hold 40 people aren't going to evacuate a
city
: of several hundred thousand.
:
: nothing is ever the chimps fault is it.
:
:
:
: But...Bush had all of years of "executive experience," as a business
: executive and governor, and, of course, all that "military
experience."
:
: What he didn't have and doesn't have is judgment. and neither does
: McCain.
:
: That situation was totally screwed up from the beginning. Seems to me
: Bush initially did what he was supposed to ..... make federal help
: available, but the operational decisions were left up to local and
state
: governments, as they should have been. Bush earned the reputation of
: being too late to act because the locals dragged their feet. If I
recall
: correctly, Bush had to *order* them to start an evacuation.
:
: Eisboch
:
:
:
:
: bush was at a fund raiser in arizona.
: he never ordered anything.
: the city state and feds had worked out a plan.
: the feds didn't do their part.
:
:
:Not just on this issue, but on every issue, the amount of
:rationalization that you see to make excuses for the utter incompetent
f the Bush Administration is simply mind-boggling.
:

You poor, stupid gits. Has it not sunk in over the past 8 years that
when you suspend reason and try to blame Bush for everything that it
merely invalidates any discussion of all the places bad decisions were
actually made?

I suggest you all need to go read the story of the boy who cried
wolf...

bush is responsible.
they were warned about bin laden wanting to strike the U.S.A using airliners
but it was ignoeredhttp://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/

he was warned N.O. was under the gun but instead went to a fund raiser and
photo ops in arizona and calihttp://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/

the yellowcake saddam9/11 connection was disproved before we invaded.
so exactly what isn't his fault.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What about the hundreds of scientists and trucks that dissappeared
into Lebanon in the 6 weeks or so while France and Russia stalled us
going in? What about the known fact that Iraq was putting all of their
facilities on wheels in the ten years between wars? It's always been a
catch 22 for Bush. I think a lot of folks in congress know exactly
where the stuff is but knowing Bush can't say anything makes it easy
for the Dems to use that against him...

Read the timeline yourself, they didnt call for an evac until less
than 24 hours before landfall and landfall is always well after storm
surge. Basically they didnt order mandatory evac until less than 20
hours prior to max surge. Their own plan called for at least 36 hour
evac. BY early Thur, the predicted path had it hitting near NO with
predictions of strengthing after getting into the warm gulf. Even
with uncertainty in the path, they had the prev years Sci Am article
predicting that a hurricane hitting NO would be the next major natural
Disaster. In 2005, predictions had gotten very good and the Gulf is
warm enough in Aug that such storms always strengthen. Not following
their own plan was criminal. IF they had followed their own plan,
those people in the hospitals would have lived because they would have
been evaced first.
Nagin and Blanco did not order an evac until Sat because they thought
they could avoid losing revenue from ppl who would stay until Fri
afternoon at conventions.
EVEN WORSE, the levee had been failing MONTHS before Katrina with
residents reporting salt water seeping under it but local authorities
who are supposed to maintain it did nothing. Basically, they got
lucky that they had a partial evac instead of having it fail in a
smaller storm (with no evac) as it ultimately would have done.
I know the Katrina Timeline very well.

"tankfixer" wrote in message
...
In article , raymond-
says...

wrote in message
...
On Aug 30, 12:30 am, "Raymond O'Hara"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

Before Katrina, the feds warned New Orleans (run by that Dem genius
Nagin) and the state of La (led by the corrupt and inept Dem.
Blanco)
to evacuate, they dithered until it was too late and people died.
Even worse, the levees were failing weeks before Katrina as revealed
by reports of salt water coming up from under where the levee
eventually failed. The city of NO run by Nagin did nothing at all.
It was actually fortunate that Katrina hit because there was a
partial
evac. The Levee was going to fail soon and it was blind luck it did
during Katrina and not some minor storm where they did not evacuate
and then the death toll would have been really high.
This time round, we have a competent Repub governor who will ride
Nagin to make sure things get done. Lets see what happs.

they had worked out a pan with the incompetent bush and his criminal
buddies
like "heckovajob" brownie but as the city was being destroyed he found
he
had a fund raiser that was more important than the port city that
services
the heartland of the country.
no mayor has the capability to evacuate any city.
and telling people with nowhere to go and no cars to get there is
rather
hopeless.
but nothing is ever georges fault is it.
he has gotten his way on everything and gotten everything he asked for
yet
things are totally screwed up and none of that is his fault.
yeah that's because he's done a "heckova job" too.

Ray, try reading.
Under the pre-Katrina hurricane plan, Nagin had authority,
responsibility AND the means (those flooded buses) to evacuate the
city. A year before Katrina He had attended a conference on this very
topic where he agreed on this. Safe evacuation areas had been pre-
decided. His failure to follow the plan that his office drew up is
criminal. In addition, the Gov of a state (at least in LA and FL) has
the authority to order such an evac. Blanco did not until she was
almost ordered to do so by Bush. Now Brownie was a bozo but that does
not excuse the criminal negligence by Nagin and Blanco.



no the feds had the responsibility.

You havn't a clue.


and 100 school buses that hold 40 people aren't going to evacuate a city
of
several hundred thousand.

Were there several hundred thousand needing evacuation that didn't have
thier own means to depart ?


close too it. that's why they were still there when the storm hit.
many urban dwellers don't own cars. heaven forbid NYC ever needs to be
evacuated. the non car owners there number in the millions.

"tankfixer" wrote in message
. ..
dying.

and telling people with nowhere to go and no cars to get there is rather
hopeless.
but nothing is ever georges fault is it.

If he had acted before being asked you would be howling how he excceed
his authority

straw man arguments is all you ever have.