On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:29:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


wrote in message
news On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:48:42 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald
P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
news:S72dnXHEG803IDfVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcast .com...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
...is unlikely to have this toy:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/9836/


Only $1589.



This geek much prefers this ....

(new release of classic, 1965 twin .... 100% vacuum tube powered)

http://www.eisboch.com/65twin.jpg

Eisboch

I wondered why this was not done earlier.

Do the "experts" say this sounds the same as the 1965 version?


I don't know. Sounds the same to me, but I am no expert.
It has not been redesigned. Just re-released as a product. Same
cabinet
design, same Jensen "special" speakers, same tube pre-amps, reverb
drivers
and 6L6 output stage.

I have another, solid state Fender "Stage 1000" that has digital signal
processing, etc. Sounds ok, but not like the tube twin.
There isn't a chip, processor or digital circuit in it.

Eisboch



Does it have the original tube rectifier, or the later replacement?


Hold on .... I'll check ....

Must be a solid state (brick) rectifier. It has 10 tubes total .... (4)
6L6's, (2) 12AT7's, (4) 12AX7's.

Ah - now you ruined it.

Solid state - bleeeech.... :)

What does a full wave, solid state bridge recifier have to do with the sound
of the preamps and power amps?
All it does is supply clean B+ and bias voltages to the grids? I'll bet
the solids are cleaner, DC wise, than the tubes.

Eisboch


Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily the
objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.

How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things such
as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
physiological impossibility.

wrote in message
...



Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily the
objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.

How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things such
as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
physiological impossibility.


If you think about it though, the "power" is really being delivered by one
or more big filter capacitors. I never asked one if it cared how the power
got there. At that point, DC is DC.

Eisboch

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:50:49 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .



Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily the
objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.

How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things such
as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
physiological impossibility.


If you think about it though, the "power" is really being delivered by one
or more big filter capacitors. I never asked one if it cared how the power
got there. At that point, DC is DC.

Eisboch


You would think so, wouldn't you! Bear in mind that a vacuum tube is a
mechanical structure and not all of the power is part of the signal
path. You have to account for uneven heat, vibration and other
anomalies that all go into what come out. The vagaries of a wimpy,
tube rectified power supply, with hand rolled paper caps should not be
underestimated.

Purists will also insist that point to point wiring sounds different
than circuit board construction. They may be right about that in some
cases. Sounds crazy, though...

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:50:49 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..



Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily the
objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.

How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things such
as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
physiological impossibility.


If you think about it though, the "power" is really being delivered by one
or more big filter capacitors. I never asked one if it cared how the
power
got there. At that point, DC is DC.

Eisboch


You would think so, wouldn't you! Bear in mind that a vacuum tube is a
mechanical structure and not all of the power is part of the signal
path. You have to account for uneven heat, vibration and other
anomalies that all go into what come out. The vagaries of a wimpy,
tube rectified power supply, with hand rolled paper caps should not be
underestimated.

Purists will also insist that point to point wiring sounds different
than circuit board construction. They may be right about that in some
cases. Sounds crazy, though...


I'll buy into the point to point wiring. An important critera used in high
quality tube amps was to design the chassis so the signal wiring was as far
away as possible from the power wiring. And, if you noted any funny noises
or distortion, you could always re-route the wires.

As for the power supply, I am still not convinced a tube rectifier is going
to sound (or display on an O'scope) any different than solid state, if
measured at the filter stage or any B+ test point. The audio amplifiers
certainly are different between solid state and tubes and that is readily
noticeable, even by people with tin ears.
But 300 volts DC?

Eisboch

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:29:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


wrote in message
news On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:48:42 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald
P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
news:S72dnXHEG803IDfVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcast .com...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
...is unlikely to have this toy:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/9836/


Only $1589.



This geek much prefers this ....

(new release of classic, 1965 twin .... 100% vacuum tube powered)

http://www.eisboch.com/65twin.jpg

Eisboch

I wondered why this was not done earlier.

Do the "experts" say this sounds the same as the 1965 version?


I don't know. Sounds the same to me, but I am no expert.
It has not been redesigned. Just re-released as a product. Same
cabinet
design, same Jensen "special" speakers, same tube pre-amps, reverb
drivers
and 6L6 output stage.

I have another, solid state Fender "Stage 1000" that has digital signal
processing, etc. Sounds ok, but not like the tube twin.
There isn't a chip, processor or digital circuit in it.

Eisboch



Does it have the original tube rectifier, or the later replacement?


Hold on .... I'll check ....

Must be a solid state (brick) rectifier. It has 10 tubes total .... (4)
6L6's, (2) 12AT7's, (4) 12AX7's.

Ah - now you ruined it.

Solid state - bleeeech.... :)

What does a full wave, solid state bridge recifier have to do with the sound
of the preamps and power amps?
All it does is supply clean B+ and bias voltages to the grids? I'll bet
the solids are cleaner, DC wise, than the tubes.

Never mind - obviously, you wouldn't understand.

Short "Analog Forever" Wave... :)

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:48:01 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:29:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


wrote in message
news On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:48:42 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald
P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
news:S72dnXHEG803IDfVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcas t.com...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
...is unlikely to have this toy:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/9836/


Only $1589.



This geek much prefers this ....

(new release of classic, 1965 twin .... 100% vacuum tube powered)

http://www.eisboch.com/65twin.jpg

Eisboch

I wondered why this was not done earlier.

Do the "experts" say this sounds the same as the 1965 version?


I don't know. Sounds the same to me, but I am no expert.
It has not been redesigned. Just re-released as a product. Same
cabinet
design, same Jensen "special" speakers, same tube pre-amps, reverb
drivers
and 6L6 output stage.

I have another, solid state Fender "Stage 1000" that has digital signal
processing, etc. Sounds ok, but not like the tube twin.
There isn't a chip, processor or digital circuit in it.

Eisboch



Does it have the original tube rectifier, or the later replacement?


Hold on .... I'll check ....

Must be a solid state (brick) rectifier. It has 10 tubes total .... (4)
6L6's, (2) 12AT7's, (4) 12AX7's.

Ah - now you ruined it.

Solid state - bleeeech.... :)

What does a full wave, solid state bridge recifier have to do with the sound
of the preamps and power amps?
All it does is supply clean B+ and bias voltages to the grids? I'll bet
the solids are cleaner, DC wise, than the tubes.

Eisboch


Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily the
objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.

How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things such
as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
physiological impossibility.

Yeah - what he said. :)

On Aug 19, 2:07*pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:29:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:







"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

wrote in message
news On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:48:42 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald
P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
news:S72dnXHEG803IDfVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcast .com...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
...is unlikely to have this toy:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/9836/

Only $1589.

This geek much prefers this ....

(new release of classic, 1965 twin .... 100% vacuum tube powered)

http://www.eisboch.com/65twin.jpg

Eisboch

I wondered why this was not done earlier.

Do the "experts" say this sounds the same as the 1965 version?

I don't know. *Sounds the same to me, but I am no expert.
It has not been redesigned. *Just re-released as a product. *Same
cabinet
design, same Jensen "special" speakers, same tube pre-amps, reverb
drivers
and 6L6 output stage.

I have another, solid state Fender "Stage 1000" that has digital signal
processing, etc. * Sounds ok, but not like the tube twin.
There isn't a chip, processor or digital circuit in it.

Eisboch

Does it have the original tube rectifier, or the later replacement?

Hold on .... I'll check ....

Must be a solid state (brick) rectifier. * It has 10 tubes total ..... (4)
6L6's, *(2) 12AT7's, *(4) 12AX7's.

Ah - now you ruined it.

Solid state - bleeeech.... * :)

What does a full wave, solid state bridge recifier have to do with the sound
of the preamps and power amps?
All it does is supply clean B+ *and bias voltages to the grids? * I'll bet
the solids are cleaner, DC wise, than the tubes.

Never mind - obviously, you wouldn't understand.

Short "Analog Forever" Wave... * :)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Clean is one way to look at it.. Hendrix sounds like ****, digital.
And I might not be able to listen to two amps and tell you which one
is analog, but I bet almost every one I hear that I "like" is..

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:42:06 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:50:49 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


wrote in message
...



Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily the
objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.

How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things such
as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
physiological impossibility.


If you think about it though, the "power" is really being delivered by one
or more big filter capacitors. I never asked one if it cared how the
power
got there. At that point, DC is DC.

Eisboch


You would think so, wouldn't you! Bear in mind that a vacuum tube is a
mechanical structure and not all of the power is part of the signal
path. You have to account for uneven heat, vibration and other
anomalies that all go into what come out. The vagaries of a wimpy,
tube rectified power supply, with hand rolled paper caps should not be
underestimated.

Purists will also insist that point to point wiring sounds different
than circuit board construction. They may be right about that in some
cases. Sounds crazy, though...


I'll buy into the point to point wiring. An important critera used in high
quality tube amps was to design the chassis so the signal wiring was as far
away as possible from the power wiring. And, if you noted any funny noises
or distortion, you could always re-route the wires.

As for the power supply, I am still not convinced a tube rectifier is going
to sound (or display on an O'scope) any different than solid state, if
measured at the filter stage or any B+ test point. The audio amplifiers
certainly are different between solid state and tubes and that is readily
noticeable, even by people with tin ears.
But 300 volts DC?

Well, good points every one.

However, I can tell the difference between, say, my Mac 50s and a
similar power level solid state monoblock.

And I know others who can.

So there must be something to it.

Maybe it's all in our heads.

Mine's certainly empty enough. :)

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:21:40 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

However, I can tell the difference between, say, my Mac 50s and a
similar power level solid state monoblock.

I think it's safe to say that the old tube amps had more "warmth",
just the thing for a cold winter's night in New England. :-)

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:15:17 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:


Hendrix sounds like ****, digital.


Does anyone honestly have any idea what that means? I'm sure
Stairflopper doesn't. I'm just curious if anyone else can parse it and
make some sense of it.