I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. I can even get into them if
necessary. This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. So, thoughts?

On Aug 18, 11:46*am, wrote:
I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if
necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts?

It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. And 3500 gph
is under extremely ideal conditions. Best figure that your real world
results would be about half that. That's about 30 gpm. If you take
multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. Make sure you
travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited
to be offshore. It's not that you can't make the trip successfully
given the correct conditions. It's that many combinations of things
can rapidly overwhelm you. Simply encountering a small storm and then
having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle.

On Aug 18, 11:46*am, wrote:
I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if
necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts?

I was going to ask if your boat was built using the calculations to
keep it floating level. After reading the above post however, my first
question is, do your flotation compartments incorporate the hull skin
as part of the enclosed structure?

On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote:

I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. I can even get into them if
necessary. This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. So, thoughts?

It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. And 3500 gph
is under extremely ideal conditions. Best figure that your real world
results would be about half that. That's about 30 gpm. If you take
multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. Make sure you
travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited
to be offshore. It's not that you can't make the trip successfully
given the correct conditions. It's that many combinations of things
can rapidly overwhelm you. Simply encountering a small storm and then
having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle.

I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too.
BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left
the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the
stringers (8"). I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and
it took 5 min. The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take
about 65 sec. I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of
the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.

On Aug 18, 12:29 pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote:



On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote:

I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. I can even get into them if
necessary. This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. So, thoughts?

It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. And 3500 gph
is under extremely ideal conditions. Best figure that your real world
results would be about half that. That's about 30 gpm. If you take
multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. Make sure you
travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited
to be offshore. It's not that you can't make the trip successfully
given the correct conditions. It's that many combinations of things
can rapidly overwhelm you. Simply encountering a small storm and then
having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle.

I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too.
BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left
the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the
stringers (8"). I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and
it took 5 min. The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take
about 65 sec. I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of
the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.

Currently, the float compartments use the hull skin. For this trip, I
intend to fill them with small closed cell foam blocks. I also intend
to fill part of my oversized drywell in front of the motor with foam
blocks.
I could install a temporary deck with closed cell foam below it and
install very large scuppers above said deck. You can do stuff like
this in a home built boat.

On Aug 18, 12:46*pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:29 pm, wrote:





On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote:

On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote:

I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck..
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if
necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts?

It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. *And 3500 gph
is under extremely ideal conditions. *Best figure that your real world
results would be about half that. *That's about 30 gpm. *If you take
multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. *Make sure you
travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited
to be offshore. *It's not that you can't make the trip successfully
given the correct conditions. *It's that many combinations of things
can rapidly overwhelm you. *Simply encountering a small storm and then
having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle.

I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too.
BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left
the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the
stringers (8"). *I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and
it took 5 min. *The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take
about 65 sec. *I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of
the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.

Currently, the float compartments use the hull skin. *For this trip, I
intend to fill them with small closed cell foam blocks. *I also intend
to fill part of my oversized drywell in front of the motor with foam
blocks.
I could install a temporary deck with closed cell foam below it and
install very large scuppers above said deck. *You can do stuff like
this in a home built boat.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am pretty familiar with home built boats, and the USCG regs.. Right
now, yours is not up to code.. If you simply fill the voids with
unattached blocks of foam, and those compartments utilize the hull
skin for containment, it still does not meet code (you could be
excluded because of length, but why be..) If are going to fill the
compartments with closed cell foam, I would suggest you incorporate
"great stuff" of similar to adhear the blocks to each other and the
inside of the frames.. I have also used drilled holes in chunks of
foam, strung together with rope.. as well as the "great stuff" (used
as adhesive, not as flotation itself.

Another thing I suggest on homebuilts is lots of ropes. I have short
ropes attached under the Gunwhales of many of my smaller boats which
can ge bent into a quick boline to hang onto or tie off to in event of
a swamping or capsize...

Scotty
SmallBoats.com
RowdyMouseRacing.com
Trip-Reports.com Where did you go today..;

On Aug 18, 12:29*pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote:





On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote:

I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if
necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts?

It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. *And 3500 gph
is under extremely ideal conditions. *Best figure that your real world
results would be about half that. *That's about 30 gpm. *If you take
multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. *Make sure you
travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited
to be offshore. *It's not that you can't make the trip successfully
given the correct conditions. *It's that many combinations of things
can rapidly overwhelm you. *Simply encountering a small storm and then
having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle.

I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too.
BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left
the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the
stringers (8"). *I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and
it took 5 min. *The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take
about 65 sec. *I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of
the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You don't understand. You don't get 5 minutes between waves. You
don't even get 30 seconds. If you lose engine power is a squall and
can't keep the bow into the waves then you're in big trouble. If you
start taking waves over the side or transom then in very short order
you'e going to be swamped. Each wave is going to lower your boat so
that the next wave dumps in even more water. We talking just a
handful of waves before you are swamped. Your kicker will not be
strong enough in storm. The wind and waves will overwhelm a 9.8 hp
motor. Maybe it clears up fast and you still have enough battery
power to pump it out. The battery will die fast once salt water gets
to it.

Bottom line you need to have someone around that can pick you up if
the worst happens.

This is a homebuilt? Do you know that your floatation will keep the
boat afloat when swamped? How did you calculate the flotation? Have
you tested it? Or do you just "think" it's enough? Take it out into
a couple feet of water some place with a sandy bottom and where you
can get a rope to a tow vehicle on shore then sink it. See what
happens. If it sinks to the bottom just drag it towards the shore
until you can pump it out.

On Aug 18, 1:21 pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:29 pm, wrote:



On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote:

On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote:

I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. I can even get into them if
necessary. This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. So, thoughts?

It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. And 3500 gph
is under extremely ideal conditions. Best figure that your real world
results would be about half that. That's about 30 gpm. If you take
multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. Make sure you
travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited
to be offshore. It's not that you can't make the trip successfully
given the correct conditions. It's that many combinations of things
can rapidly overwhelm you. Simply encountering a small storm and then
having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle.

I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too.
BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left
the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the
stringers (8"). I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and
it took 5 min. The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take
about 65 sec. I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of
the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You don't understand. You don't get 5 minutes between waves. You
don't even get 30 seconds. If you lose engine power is a squall and
can't keep the bow into the waves then you're in big trouble. If you
start taking waves over the side or transom then in very short order
you'e going to be swamped. Each wave is going to lower your boat so
that the next wave dumps in even more water. We talking just a
handful of waves before you are swamped. Your kicker will not be
strong enough in storm. The wind and waves will overwhelm a 9.8 hp
motor. Maybe it clears up fast and you still have enough battery
power to pump it out. The battery will die fast once salt water gets
to it.

Bottom line you need to have someone around that can pick you up if
the worst happens.

This is a homebuilt? Do you know that your floatation will keep the
boat afloat when swamped? How did you calculate the flotation? Have
you tested it? Or do you just "think" it's enough? Take it out into
a couple feet of water some place with a sandy bottom and where you
can get a rope to a tow vehicle on shore then sink it. See what
happens. If it sinks to the bottom just drag it towards the shore
until you can pump it out.

On Aug 18, 1:21*pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:29*pm, wrote:





On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote:

On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote:

I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck..
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if
necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts?

It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. *And 3500 gph
is under extremely ideal conditions. *Best figure that your real world
results would be about half that. *That's about 30 gpm. *If you take
multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. *Make sure you
travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited
to be offshore. *It's not that you can't make the trip successfully
given the correct conditions. *It's that many combinations of things
can rapidly overwhelm you. *Simply encountering a small storm and then
having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle.

I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too.
BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left
the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the
stringers (8"). *I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and
it took 5 min. *The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take
about 65 sec. *I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of
the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You don't understand. *You don't get 5 minutes between waves. *You
don't even get 30 seconds. *If you lose engine power is a squall and
can't keep the bow into the waves then you're in big trouble. *If you
start taking waves over the side or transom then in very short order
you'e going to be swamped. *Each wave is going to lower your boat so
that the next wave dumps in even more water. *We talking just a
handful of waves before you are swamped. *Your kicker will not be
strong enough in storm. *The wind and waves will overwhelm a 9.8 hp
motor. *Maybe it clears up fast and you still have enough battery
power to pump it out. *The battery will die fast once salt water gets
to it.

Bottom line you need to have someone around that can pick you up if
the worst happens.

This is a homebuilt? *Do you know that your floatation will keep the
boat afloat when swamped? *How did you calculate the flotation? *Have
you tested it? *Or do you just "think" it's enough? *Take it out into
a couple feet of water some place with a sandy bottom and where you
can get a rope to a tow vehicle on shore then sink it. *See what
happens. *If it sinks to the bottom just drag it towards the shore
until you can pump it out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Right now, he has flotation compartments that utilize the hull skin as
part of the compartment.. I have made a couple of suggestions as to
how he can make them better. For now, I want to not jump down his
throat as he has been taking a beating from one of our most famous
trolls so he may (rightfully so) be getting a little defensive.. I
am sure he is here trying to do the right thing, so I will keep
watching...

wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:21 pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:29 pm, wrote:





On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote:
I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. From what I can see, self bailing is installed on
boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.
My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to
the hull at all times. My current floatation is from two compartments
with screw on covers at bow and stern. I can even get into them if
necessary. This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far
above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. Instead,
I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides)
and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large
3500 gph pump just in case. From my reading, I see that scuppers seem
to cause a lot of problems too. However, one web site stated flatly
that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. So, thoughts?
It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. And 3500 gph
is under extremely ideal conditions. Best figure that your real world
results would be about half that. That's about 30 gpm. If you take
multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. Make sure you
travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited
to be offshore. It's not that you can't make the trip successfully
given the correct conditions. It's that many combinations of things
can rapidly overwhelm you. Simply encountering a small storm and then
having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle.
I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too.
BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left
the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the
stringers (8"). I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and
it took 5 min. The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take
about 65 sec. I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of
the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You don't understand. You don't get 5 minutes between waves. You
don't even get 30 seconds. If you lose engine power is a squall and
can't keep the bow into the waves then you're in big trouble. If you
start taking waves over the side or transom then in very short order
you'e going to be swamped. Each wave is going to lower your boat so
that the next wave dumps in even more water. We talking just a
handful of waves before you are swamped. Your kicker will not be
strong enough in storm. The wind and waves will overwhelm a 9.8 hp
motor. Maybe it clears up fast and you still have enough battery
power to pump it out. The battery will die fast once salt water gets
to it.

Bottom line you need to have someone around that can pick you up if
the worst happens.

This is a homebuilt? Do you know that your floatation will keep the
boat afloat when swamped? How did you calculate the flotation? Have
you tested it? Or do you just "think" it's enough? Take it out into
a couple feet of water some place with a sandy bottom and where you
can get a rope to a tow vehicle on shore then sink it. See what
happens. If it sinks to the bottom just drag it towards the shore
until you can pump it out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Right now, he has flotation compartments that utilize the hull skin as
part of the compartment.. I have made a couple of suggestions as to
how he can make them better. For now, I want to not jump down his
throat as he has been taking a beating from one of our most famous
trolls so he may (rightfully so) be getting a little defensive.. I
am sure he is here trying to do the right thing, so I will keep
watching...

..
If you are referring to me, buddy boy, one of the differences between us
is that I value life and limb and you don't. I've seen and read of too
many boating accidents that ended badly because the boater(s) exceeded
either their abilities or the abilities of their boats, or both.

Once again, I ask you...how much experience have you had building boats
that are competent to go out on the ocean? How many hundreds of hours
have you spent out on small boats on the ocean?

The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman.
It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating
experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience.





--
I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do
something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do
the something that I can do. What I can do, I should do. And what I
should do, by the grace of God, I will do.

— Edward Everett Hale (1822-1909)