| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
Self bailing or not
I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman
to go offshore. From what I can see, self bailing is installed on boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck. My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to the hull at all times. My current floatation is from two compartments with screw on covers at bow and stern. I can even get into them if necessary. This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. Instead, I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides) and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large 3500 gph pump just in case. From my reading, I see that scuppers seem to cause a lot of problems too. However, one web site stated flatly that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. So, thoughts? |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 11:46*am, wrote:
I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck. My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead, I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides) and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large 3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts? It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. And 3500 gph is under extremely ideal conditions. Best figure that your real world results would be about half that. That's about 30 gpm. If you take multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. Make sure you travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited to be offshore. It's not that you can't make the trip successfully given the correct conditions. It's that many combinations of things can rapidly overwhelm you. Simply encountering a small storm and then having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle. |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 11:46*am, wrote:
I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck. My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead, I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides) and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large 3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts? I was going to ask if your boat was built using the calculations to keep it floating level. After reading the above post however, my first question is, do your flotation compartments incorporate the hull skin as part of the enclosed structure? |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote: I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman to go offshore. From what I can see, self bailing is installed on boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck. My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to the hull at all times. My current floatation is from two compartments with screw on covers at bow and stern. I can even get into them if necessary. This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. Instead, I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides) and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large 3500 gph pump just in case. From my reading, I see that scuppers seem to cause a lot of problems too. However, one web site stated flatly that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. So, thoughts? It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. And 3500 gph is under extremely ideal conditions. Best figure that your real world results would be about half that. That's about 30 gpm. If you take multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. Make sure you travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited to be offshore. It's not that you can't make the trip successfully given the correct conditions. It's that many combinations of things can rapidly overwhelm you. Simply encountering a small storm and then having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle. I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too. BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the stringers (8"). I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and it took 5 min. The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take about 65 sec. I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster. |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 12:29 pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote: I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman to go offshore. From what I can see, self bailing is installed on boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck. My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to the hull at all times. My current floatation is from two compartments with screw on covers at bow and stern. I can even get into them if necessary. This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. Instead, I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides) and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large 3500 gph pump just in case. From my reading, I see that scuppers seem to cause a lot of problems too. However, one web site stated flatly that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. So, thoughts? It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. And 3500 gph is under extremely ideal conditions. Best figure that your real world results would be about half that. That's about 30 gpm. If you take multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. Make sure you travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited to be offshore. It's not that you can't make the trip successfully given the correct conditions. It's that many combinations of things can rapidly overwhelm you. Simply encountering a small storm and then having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle. I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too. BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the stringers (8"). I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and it took 5 min. The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take about 65 sec. I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster. Currently, the float compartments use the hull skin. For this trip, I intend to fill them with small closed cell foam blocks. I also intend to fill part of my oversized drywell in front of the motor with foam blocks. I could install a temporary deck with closed cell foam below it and install very large scuppers above said deck. You can do stuff like this in a home built boat. |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 12:46*pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:29 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote: I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.. My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead, I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides) and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large 3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts? It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. *And 3500 gph is under extremely ideal conditions. *Best figure that your real world results would be about half that. *That's about 30 gpm. *If you take multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. *Make sure you travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited to be offshore. *It's not that you can't make the trip successfully given the correct conditions. *It's that many combinations of things can rapidly overwhelm you. *Simply encountering a small storm and then having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle. I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too. BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the stringers (8"). *I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and it took 5 min. *The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take about 65 sec. *I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster. Currently, the float compartments use the hull skin. *For this trip, I intend to fill them with small closed cell foam blocks. *I also intend to fill part of my oversized drywell in front of the motor with foam blocks. I could install a temporary deck with closed cell foam below it and install very large scuppers above said deck. *You can do stuff like this in a home built boat.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I am pretty familiar with home built boats, and the USCG regs.. Right now, yours is not up to code.. If you simply fill the voids with unattached blocks of foam, and those compartments utilize the hull skin for containment, it still does not meet code (you could be excluded because of length, but why be..) If are going to fill the compartments with closed cell foam, I would suggest you incorporate "great stuff" of similar to adhear the blocks to each other and the inside of the frames.. I have also used drilled holes in chunks of foam, strung together with rope.. as well as the "great stuff" (used as adhesive, not as flotation itself. Another thing I suggest on homebuilts is lots of ropes. I have short ropes attached under the Gunwhales of many of my smaller boats which can ge bent into a quick boline to hang onto or tie off to in event of a swamping or capsize... Scotty SmallBoats.com RowdyMouseRacing.com Trip-Reports.com Where did you go today..; |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 12:29*pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote: I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck. My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead, I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides) and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large 3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts? It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. *And 3500 gph is under extremely ideal conditions. *Best figure that your real world results would be about half that. *That's about 30 gpm. *If you take multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. *Make sure you travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited to be offshore. *It's not that you can't make the trip successfully given the correct conditions. *It's that many combinations of things can rapidly overwhelm you. *Simply encountering a small storm and then having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle. I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too. BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the stringers (8"). *I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and it took 5 min. *The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take about 65 sec. *I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You don't understand. You don't get 5 minutes between waves. You don't even get 30 seconds. If you lose engine power is a squall and can't keep the bow into the waves then you're in big trouble. If you start taking waves over the side or transom then in very short order you'e going to be swamped. Each wave is going to lower your boat so that the next wave dumps in even more water. We talking just a handful of waves before you are swamped. Your kicker will not be strong enough in storm. The wind and waves will overwhelm a 9.8 hp motor. Maybe it clears up fast and you still have enough battery power to pump it out. The battery will die fast once salt water gets to it. Bottom line you need to have someone around that can pick you up if the worst happens. This is a homebuilt? Do you know that your floatation will keep the boat afloat when swamped? How did you calculate the flotation? Have you tested it? Or do you just "think" it's enough? Take it out into a couple feet of water some place with a sandy bottom and where you can get a rope to a tow vehicle on shore then sink it. See what happens. If it sinks to the bottom just drag it towards the shore until you can pump it out. |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 1:21 pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:29 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote: I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman to go offshore. From what I can see, self bailing is installed on boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck. My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to the hull at all times. My current floatation is from two compartments with screw on covers at bow and stern. I can even get into them if necessary. This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. Instead, I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides) and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large 3500 gph pump just in case. From my reading, I see that scuppers seem to cause a lot of problems too. However, one web site stated flatly that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. So, thoughts? It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. And 3500 gph is under extremely ideal conditions. Best figure that your real world results would be about half that. That's about 30 gpm. If you take multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. Make sure you travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited to be offshore. It's not that you can't make the trip successfully given the correct conditions. It's that many combinations of things can rapidly overwhelm you. Simply encountering a small storm and then having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle. I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too. BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the stringers (8"). I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and it took 5 min. The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take about 65 sec. I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You don't understand. You don't get 5 minutes between waves. You don't even get 30 seconds. If you lose engine power is a squall and can't keep the bow into the waves then you're in big trouble. If you start taking waves over the side or transom then in very short order you'e going to be swamped. Each wave is going to lower your boat so that the next wave dumps in even more water. We talking just a handful of waves before you are swamped. Your kicker will not be strong enough in storm. The wind and waves will overwhelm a 9.8 hp motor. Maybe it clears up fast and you still have enough battery power to pump it out. The battery will die fast once salt water gets to it. Bottom line you need to have someone around that can pick you up if the worst happens. This is a homebuilt? Do you know that your floatation will keep the boat afloat when swamped? How did you calculate the flotation? Have you tested it? Or do you just "think" it's enough? Take it out into a couple feet of water some place with a sandy bottom and where you can get a rope to a tow vehicle on shore then sink it. See what happens. If it sinks to the bottom just drag it towards the shore until you can pump it out. |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 1:21*pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:29*pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote: I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck.. My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead, I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides) and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large 3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts? It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. *And 3500 gph is under extremely ideal conditions. *Best figure that your real world results would be about half that. *That's about 30 gpm. *If you take multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. *Make sure you travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited to be offshore. *It's not that you can't make the trip successfully given the correct conditions. *It's that many combinations of things can rapidly overwhelm you. *Simply encountering a small storm and then having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle. I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too. BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the stringers (8"). *I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and it took 5 min. *The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take about 65 sec. *I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You don't understand. *You don't get 5 minutes between waves. *You don't even get 30 seconds. *If you lose engine power is a squall and can't keep the bow into the waves then you're in big trouble. *If you start taking waves over the side or transom then in very short order you'e going to be swamped. *Each wave is going to lower your boat so that the next wave dumps in even more water. *We talking just a handful of waves before you are swamped. *Your kicker will not be strong enough in storm. *The wind and waves will overwhelm a 9.8 hp motor. *Maybe it clears up fast and you still have enough battery power to pump it out. *The battery will die fast once salt water gets to it. Bottom line you need to have someone around that can pick you up if the worst happens. This is a homebuilt? *Do you know that your floatation will keep the boat afloat when swamped? *How did you calculate the flotation? *Have you tested it? *Or do you just "think" it's enough? *Take it out into a couple feet of water some place with a sandy bottom and where you can get a rope to a tow vehicle on shore then sink it. *See what happens. *If it sinks to the bottom just drag it towards the shore until you can pump it out.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Right now, he has flotation compartments that utilize the hull skin as part of the compartment.. I have made a couple of suggestions as to how he can make them better. For now, I want to not jump down his throat as he has been taking a beating from one of our most famous trolls so he may (rightfully so) be getting a little defensive.. I am sure he is here trying to do the right thing, so I will keep watching... |
Self bailing or not
|
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 1:46*pm, hk wrote:
The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman. It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience. Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here. |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 1:21 pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:29 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote: I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman to go offshore. From what I can see, self bailing is installed on boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck. My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to the hull at all times. My current floatation is from two compartments with screw on covers at bow and stern. I can even get into them if necessary. This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. Instead, I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides) and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large 3500 gph pump just in case. From my reading, I see that scuppers seem to cause a lot of problems too. However, one web site stated flatly that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. So, thoughts? It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. And 3500 gph is under extremely ideal conditions. Best figure that your real world results would be about half that. That's about 30 gpm. If you take multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. Make sure you travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited to be offshore. It's not that you can't make the trip successfully given the correct conditions. It's that many combinations of things can rapidly overwhelm you. Simply encountering a small storm and then having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle. I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too. BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the stringers (8"). I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and it took 5 min. The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take about 65 sec. I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You don't understand. You don't get 5 minutes between waves. You don't even get 30 seconds. If you lose engine power is a squall and can't keep the bow into the waves then you're in big trouble. If you start taking waves over the side or transom then in very short order you'e going to be swamped. Each wave is going to lower your boat so that the next wave dumps in even more water. We talking just a handful of waves before you are swamped. Your kicker will not be strong enough in storm. The wind and waves will overwhelm a 9.8 hp motor. Maybe it clears up fast and you still have enough battery power to pump it out. The battery will die fast once salt water gets to it. Bottom line you need to have someone around that can pick you up if the worst happens. This is a homebuilt? Do you know that your floatation will keep the boat afloat when swamped? How did you calculate the flotation? Have you tested it? Or do you just "think" it's enough? Take it out into a couple feet of water some place with a sandy bottom and where you can get a rope to a tow vehicle on shore then sink it. See what happens. If it sinks to the bottom just drag it towards the shore until you can pump it out. I have built smaller boats and tried various forms of floatation. Great Stuff is not so great for boats. It actually absorbs water. It also sticks to everything. A better thing to do is packing peanuts contained in bags. The foam must be removable in order to be able to inspect the hull. I will put the closed cell foam blocks into mesh bags inside the float compartments. I calculated the floatation based on weight of the boat (estimated at 800 lbs) plus the weight of the two motors and doubled that. BTW, the hull has positive buoyancy anyway. I have looked at commercially available scuppers and they seem to be a joke. A 1.5" hole with a strainer that covers up 30% at least? This is s'posed to empty your boat in less than 90 secs, not likely, even with two of them as most "offshore" boats have will not do it in less than 5 minutes. A bilge pump really is faster. The only scupper worthwhile would seem to be very large but unless I had a deck they would be useless. I have seen very few "offshore" boats with such huge scuppers. My transom is very high as are the sides. Compared to most other boats drifting with no power, I am much better off, even compared to most "offshore boats" because I have so much more reserve than they do. I also intend to buy a drift anchor just in case both engines die to keep her head into the wind. Can a 9.8 hp keep her pointed into the wind in a storm, the answer seems to be "yes". My 8000 lb sailboat with much greater windage came with only a 6.5 hp diesel that had no problem keeping the head into the wind in several thunderstorms. |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 1:56*pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:21 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 12:29 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 12:15 pm, wrote: On Aug 18, 11:46 am, wrote: I want to decide whether or not to install self bailing on my Tolman to go offshore. *From what I can see, self bailing is installed on boats with sealed decks with the scuppers roughly 3" above the deck. My boat has no deck because I think it is important to have access to the hull at all times. *My current floatation is from two compartments with screw on covers at bow and stern. *I can even get into them if necessary. *This lack of deck means that any scuppers would be far above the bottom of the boat and would not drain much water. *Instead, I rely on the inherent dryness of the boat (very high bow and sides) and the completely sealed dry well in front of the motor and a large 3500 gph pump just in case. *From my reading, I see that scuppers seem to cause a lot of problems too. *However, one web site stated flatly that any boat going offshore had to have self bailing. *So, thoughts? It would be pointless to install scuppers on your boat. *And 3500 gph is under extremely ideal conditions. *Best figure that your real world results would be about half that. *That's about 30 gpm. *If you take multiple hits, no bilge pump is going to keep up. *Make sure you travel in a group if you're going offshore in a boat not really suited to be offshore. *It's not that you can't make the trip successfully given the correct conditions. *It's that many combinations of things can rapidly overwhelm you. *Simply encountering a small storm and then having the engine quit can be more than your boat can handle. I do have a 9.8 hp pull start kicker too. BTW, I currently do not have a cover for my boat and last week I left the plug in her and she filled with rainwater to the height of the stringers (8"). *I used my small pump (750 gal/hr) to pump her out and it took 5 min. *The same thing with the 3500 gph should therefor take about 65 sec. *I am installing the 3500 with asmooth hose instead of the corrugated stuff so it may be even faster.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You don't understand. *You don't get 5 minutes between waves. *You don't even get 30 seconds. *If you lose engine power is a squall and can't keep the bow into the waves then you're in big trouble. *If you start taking waves over the side or transom then in very short order you'e going to be swamped. *Each wave is going to lower your boat so that the next wave dumps in even more water. *We talking just a handful of waves before you are swamped. *Your kicker will not be strong enough in storm. *The wind and waves will overwhelm a 9.8 hp motor. *Maybe it clears up fast and you still have enough battery power to pump it out. *The battery will die fast once salt water gets to it. Bottom line you need to have someone around that can pick you up if the worst happens. This is a homebuilt? *Do you know that your floatation will keep the boat afloat when swamped? *How did you calculate the flotation? *Have you tested it? *Or do you just "think" it's enough? *Take it out into a couple feet of water some place with a sandy bottom and where you can get a rope to a tow vehicle on shore then sink it. *See what happens. *If it sinks to the bottom just drag it towards the shore until you can pump it out. I have built smaller boats and tried various forms of floatation. Great Stuff is not so great for boats. *It actually absorbs water. *It also sticks to everything. *A better thing to do is packing peanuts contained in bags. *The foam must be removable in order to be able to inspect the hull. *I will put the closed cell foam blocks into mesh bags inside the float compartments. I calculated the floatation based on weight of the boat (estimated at 800 lbs) plus the weight of the two motors and doubled that. *BTW, the hull has positive buoyancy anyway. I have looked at commercially available scuppers and they seem to be a joke. *A 1.5" hole with a strainer that covers up 30% at least? *This is s'posed to empty your boat in less than 90 secs, not likely, even with two of them as most "offshore" boats have will not do it in less than 5 minutes. *A bilge pump really is faster. *The only scupper worthwhile would seem to be very large but unless I had a deck they would be useless. *I have seen very few "offshore" boats with such huge scuppers. My transom is very high as are the sides. *Compared to most other boats drifting with no power, I am much better off, even compared to most "offshore boats" because I have so much more reserve than they do. I also intend to buy a drift anchor just in case both engines die to keep her head into the wind. Can a 9.8 hp keep her pointed into the wind in a storm, the answer seems to be "yes". *My 8000 lb sailboat with much greater windage came with only a 6.5 hp diesel that had no problem keeping the head into the wind in several thunderstorms.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - If you do this alone then you place little value on your life. It's just that simple. |
Self bailing or not
|
Self bailing or not
|
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 2:50 pm, hk wrote:
wrote: On Aug 18, 1:46 pm, hk wrote: The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman. It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience. Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here. Once again, I point out you have little or no experience building ocean-capable boats or operating same. No experience means no experience. You build dinghies and rowboats, none of which I would take into the ocean, and most of which I would not take into Long Island Sound.. Further, the other day you vehemently denied that Tolman skiffs incorporated stitch and glue construction, an opinion shot to hell by Renn Tolman himself, the designer of these boats. Finally, you have a cavalier attitude towards the value of life, as evidenced by your allowing, even encouraging, your minor child's participation in motorcycle racing. What O'Hara does is his decision. He has been asking for advice that relates to his personal safety in undertaking a 50-mile ocean voyage in a very light, small boat. Reasonable posters with ocean experience have advised against him making the trip in that boat. -- I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do. What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of God, I will do. — Edward Everett Hale (1822-1909) Look guys, this is all in fun. Sure, I'd like to do this but I do value my life. Maybe I will if I can convince myself that I need some more adventure but maybe not too. Wouldnt any of you even be tempted to try this? |
Self bailing or not
|
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 3:17 pm, hk wrote:
wrote: On Aug 18, 2:50 pm, hk wrote: wrote: On Aug 18, 1:46 pm, hk wrote: The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman. |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 3:17*pm, hk wrote:
wrote: On Aug 18, 2:50 pm, hk wrote: wrote: On Aug 18, 1:46 pm, hk wrote: The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman. |
Self bailing or not
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:11:06 -0700 (PDT),
wrote: Look guys, this is all in fun. Sure, I'd like to do this but I do value my life. Maybe I will if I can convince myself that I need some more adventure but maybe not too. Wouldnt any of you even be tempted to try this? Only with a deck, good scuppers and flotation, in a flotilla, on the right day. --Vic |
Self bailing or not
RMR wrote:
Well as long as this type of post can get through, but I can't respond, this is useless for me to be here. Oh, well... Gene knew folks would play with the spirit of the thing. If you are reading here, you won't see me anymore as my posting server is blocked too.. later, been fun... Why not hold off on jumping to conclusions? Gene said the other day he was going to be twiddling with settings for a while. |
Self bailing or not
|
Self bailing or not
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:12:21 -0400, John H.
salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:12:28 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:56:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Aug 18, 1:46*pm, hk wrote: The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman. It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience. Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here. You talk out of your ass constantly, Scotty... or maybe it's just your breath. Or perhaps a faulty nose. Scotty usually knows what he's talking about when it comes to homemade boats. Well, if you hadn't jammed your nose so tightly in Scotty's ass, you wouldn't have broken it. You have only yourself to blame. |
Self bailing or not
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:12:21 -0400, John H. salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:12:28 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:56:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Aug 18, 1:46 pm, hk wrote: The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman. It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience. Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here. You talk out of your ass constantly, Scotty... or maybe it's just your breath. Or perhaps a faulty nose. Scotty usually knows what he's talking about when it comes to homemade boats. Well, if you hadn't jammed your nose so tightly in Scotty's ass, you wouldn't have broken it. You have only yourself to blame. Herring knows virtually nothing about boats, so when he claims "Scotty usually knows what he's talking about" in boats, the comment is even funnier. "Scotty" seems to know how to build dinghies and rowboats, but that doesn't mean he knows how to build ocean-capable wood boats. It's not just a matter of stretching out the dimensions and making that dinghy or rowboat larger. -- I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do. What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of God, I will do. — Edward Everett Hale (1822-1909) |
Self bailing or not
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 06:16:04 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:12:21 -0400, John H. salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:12:28 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:56:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Aug 18, 1:46*pm, hk wrote: The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman. It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience. Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here. You talk out of your ass constantly, Scotty... or maybe it's just your breath. Or perhaps a faulty nose. Scotty usually knows what he's talking about when it comes to homemade boats. Well, if you hadn't jammed your nose so tightly in Scotty's ass, you wouldn't have broken it. You have only yourself to blame. Bye, Harry! -- ** Good Day! ** John H |
Self bailing or not
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 06:33:45 -0400, John H.
salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote: On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 06:16:04 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:12:21 -0400, John H. salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:12:28 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:56:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Aug 18, 1:46*pm, hk wrote: The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman. It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience. Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here. You talk out of your ass constantly, Scotty... or maybe it's just your breath. Or perhaps a faulty nose. Scotty usually knows what he's talking about when it comes to homemade boats. Well, if you hadn't jammed your nose so tightly in Scotty's ass, you wouldn't have broken it. You have only yourself to blame. Bye, Harry! Just one more thing you don't know, putz. |
Self bailing or not
On Aug 18, 3:11*pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 2:50 pm, hk wrote: wrote: On Aug 18, 1:46 pm, hk wrote: The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman. |
Self bailing or not
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 06:16:04 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:12:21 -0400, John H. salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:12:28 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:56:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Aug 18, 1:46*pm, hk wrote: The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman. It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience. Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here. You talk out of your ass constantly, Scotty... or maybe it's just your breath. Or perhaps a faulty nose. Scotty usually knows what he's talking about when it comes to homemade boats. Well, if you hadn't jammed your nose so tightly in Scotty's ass, you wouldn't have broken it. You have only yourself to blame. I really thought this type of garbage was going to be filtered out here... |
Self bailing or not
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 06:33:34 -0400, hk wrote:
Herring knows virtually nothing about boats, so when he claims "Scotty usually knows what he's talking about" in boats, the comment is even funnier. "Scotty" seems to know how to build dinghies and rowboats, but that doesn't mean he knows how to build ocean-capable wood boats. It's not just a matter of stretching out the dimensions and making that dinghy or rowboat larger These kinds of personal attacks should be filtered here. New boaters and some who know what they are talking about without search engines will not be willing to post real info if this continues... |
Self bailing or not
RMR wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 06:33:34 -0400, hk wrote: Herring knows virtually nothing about boats, so when he claims "Scotty usually knows what he's talking about" in boats, the comment is even funnier. "Scotty" seems to know how to build dinghies and rowboats, but that doesn't mean he knows how to build ocean-capable wood boats. It's not just a matter of stretching out the dimensions and making that dinghy or rowboat larger These kinds of personal attacks should be filtered here. New boaters and some who know what they are talking about without search engines will not be willing to post real info if this continues... It is not a "personal attack" to state that because you build dinghies and rowboats, you do not necessarily know how to build ocean-capable wood boats, nor is it a personal attack to state that building ocean-capable wood boats requires more than stretching out the dimensions of dinghies or rowboats. I had years and years of experience with small rowboats and dinghies rowing and motoring around the coves in the Milford, CT, area, in Long Island Sound. These wood boats were similar in size and design to what you used to build. I certainly learned the capabilities and shortcomings of these boats, and since my dad had a boat store, I could easily see the differences in design, engineering and construction between the lightweight boats I was using, and the ones that were capable of crossing the Sound in relative safety and comfort. And you know what? Many of the boats I got to use that were OK for Long Island Sound I wouldn't have taken out into the Atlantic. Finally, note that I am NOT saying you cannot build ocean-capable wood boats. I don't know whether you can or you cannot, since you have not, to my knowledge, posted photos of any larger boats you have built that are being used out on the Atlantic. |
Self bailing or not
PLONK hopefully I have donet this correctly;)
|
Self bailing or not
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:11:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Look guys, this is all in fun. Sure, I'd like to do this but I do value my life. Maybe I will if I can convince myself that I need some more adventure but maybe not too. Wouldnt any of you even be tempted to try this? If it were me I'd take the sailboat. It is much more seaworthy and has much better cruising accomodations. The Tolman, although fine for its intended purpose, is not the right boat for crossing the Gulf Stream and extended cruising. Wayne, It is always nice to see a constructive comment, that is not demeaning to someone asking a serious question. |
Self bailing or not
|
Self bailing or not
Richard Casady wrote:
My family has a square stern Grumman canoe with a sailing rig. [that hasn't been used since the fifties] Also a three HP evinrude that is downright scary at WOT. It could easily handle the trip sail, or power. It isn't that far... Casady You think a canoe with a 3 hp outboard is sufficient for a trip from Florida to Bimini, eh? I think taking or even advising taking that sort of trip in a canoe is foolish. Aside from all the other stuff that could happen, one sudden wave breaking broadside and you are shark food. Gotta love rec.boats... |
Self bailing or not
|
Self bailing or not
|
Self bailing or not
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:12:32 -0400, RMR
wrote: Well as long as this type of post can get through, but I can't respond, this is useless for me to be here. Oh, well... Gene knew folks would play with the spirit of the thing. If you are reading here, you won't see me anymore as my posting server is blocked too.. later, been fun... On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:12:28 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:56:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Aug 18, 1:46*pm, hk wrote: The proper advice is to advise O'Hara not make the trip in his Tolman. It's just too risky, especially for a guy that whatever his sailboating experience seems really limited on open ocean powerboat experience. Because I don't talk out of my ass, I know about wood/composite construction and flotation, that's what I will talk about. Folks just need to know that your info is often scewed by, who knows what? Often times either googled, or worse, wiki, then taken out of context or edited, or just plain bull**** all together, just to fight. Your constant mocking and trolling keeps many good folks from posting here. You talk out of your ass constantly, Scotty... or maybe it's just your breath. I just went over to Gene's side to see what gives. I looked at 'hk' posts and found that most were attack posts or political bull**** of one kind or another. If a post like the following can make it through, then the filters don't seem to be doing much good ************************** Don White wrote: "John H." salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote in message ... Don, please extend my apologies to your mom for harassing her. When you made a comment about someone's mom, it made me wonder how yours was doing. So I asked. You replied that she was doing well. I asked if you'd taken her out in the boat. You and Harry decided to turn it into something ugly, for whatever pleasure it gave you. I don't know what your 'troubles' are. I hope you can get over them. -- ** Good Day! ** John H My 'trouble' is that you are a complete asshole and encourage/facilitate others to act as you do. The only comment I made to another poster is that he would be running crying to his moma.... Just incase your elite military training didn't educate you on the finer points... this is a comment about the poster.. not his mother. ..but of course you know this and saw an opportunity to irritate, agitate and instigate yet again. As the locals say up here... kiss me arse! "Elite Military Training!" I love it. ************************************************** *** |
Self bailing or not
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:43:41 -0400, John H.
I just went over to Gene's side to see what gives. I looked at 'hk' posts and found that most were attack posts or political bull**** of one kind or another. If a post like the following can make it through, then the filters don't seem to be doing much good ************************** Don White wrote: "John H." salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote in message ... Don, please extend my apologies to your mom for harassing her. When you made a comment about someone's mom, it made me wonder how yours was doing. So I asked. You replied that she was doing well. I asked if you'd taken her out in the boat. You and Harry decided to turn it into something ugly, for whatever pleasure it gave you. I don't know what your 'troubles' are. I hope you can get over them. -- ** Good Day! ** John H My 'trouble' is that you are a complete asshole and encourage/facilitate others to act as you do. The only comment I made to another poster is that he would be running crying to his moma.... Just incase your elite military training didn't educate you on the finer points... this is a comment about the poster.. not his mother. ..but of course you know this and saw an opportunity to irritate, agitate and instigate yet again. As the locals say up here... kiss me arse! "Elite Military Training!" I love it. ************************************************* **** I have him KF'ed along with salty through Agent and Gene's filters.. but what gets through is kind of strange.. |
Self bailing or not
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:45:17 -0400, SmallBoats.com
wrote: On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:43:41 -0400, John H. I just went over to Gene's side to see what gives. I looked at 'hk' posts and found that most were attack posts or political bull**** of one kind or another. If a post like the following can make it through, then the filters don't seem to be doing much good ************************** Don White wrote: "John H." salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote in message ... Don, please extend my apologies to your mom for harassing her. When you made a comment about someone's mom, it made me wonder how yours was doing. So I asked. You replied that she was doing well. I asked if you'd taken her out in the boat. You and Harry decided to turn it into something ugly, for whatever pleasure it gave you. I don't know what your 'troubles' are. I hope you can get over them. -- ** Good Day! ** John H My 'trouble' is that you are a complete asshole and encourage/facilitate others to act as you do. The only comment I made to another poster is that he would be running crying to his moma.... Just incase your elite military training didn't educate you on the finer points... this is a comment about the poster.. not his mother. ..but of course you know this and saw an opportunity to irritate, agitate and instigate yet again. As the locals say up here... kiss me arse! "Elite Military Training!" I love it. ************************************************ ***** I have him KF'ed along with salty through Agent and Gene's filters.. but what gets through is kind of strange.. You get through. What could be stranger than that? |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:06 PM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com