On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:15:45 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:



Off road riding is dangerous. So is playing most sports. I used to race a
Corvette in SCCA. Only injury was a broken foot. Happened in the pits
accidentally kicking the towbar. Worst injury were broken ribs, once
playing softball when I was 23,

12" softball, or 16"?
I grew up playing 16" but only jammed a couple fingers.
It was always "the" game in Chicago.
Never played with the organized leagues, but used to watch them often.
Later, in my late twenties we had casual 16" game at our UPS picnic.
I took over pitching for warmups because I could loft them nice and
easy right over the plate and give the guys a good chance to whack
them. One of truckers came to the plate - a big guy - and I eased one
to him, with a ballet flourish. He whacked that ball back at me so
hard it fluffed my tutu. New ball. Hit me in the left chest so hard
it bounced almost right back to the plate. Think it actually stopped
my heart, as it stunned me for a couple seconds and I felt my knees
weaken.
Everybody was concerned for a moment as the sound of the ball hitting
me was like a thunderclap. I just cussed the trucker out and told him
he'd never get another good pitch from me. My fault of course.
Hurt a bunch but didn't stiffen up so I played on. The next day and a
week afterward I could hardly move my left side. But I was in good
shape.
There was little league pitcher a bit north of me a few years ago who
caught a liner in the chest and it stopped his heart. 13 years old.
Coaches and docs in the stands couldn't do anything. He was dead.
A frantic woman ran across the park in a panic, saw a squad car,
and told the cop what had happened. The car had just that week been
equipped with a defrib unit, and the cop quickly brought the kid back
from death. Here, found this. He was actually hit by a pitch.
http://www.medical.philips.com/main/...an_morley.html
It was an amazing story when it happened, and still is. Somebody up
there liked this kid.

--Vic

wrote:
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:23:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Aug 4, 12:03 pm, hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
In my opinion and in the opinion of many, any adult who allows small
children to race motorcycles is encouraging reckless endangerment and
more, and under the right circumstances, child abuse charges could be
brought.
How about organized youth football, soccer, baseball, hockey or golf? All
have inherent danger of injuries. With the proper equipment, supervision,
and correctly sized dirt bike, I am not sure it's any more dangerous than
the other activities I mentioned.
Eisboch
There's a possibility of injury with many sports activities, of course,
but adding in the element of motorization, speed, gasoline, vehicles
that might weigh several hundred pounds, and bumpy courses, and the
resulting injuries can be very serious.

I don't believe "tackle" football should be played until high school. In
all the years I played "organized" baseball in New Haven, I never saw a
serious injury, and that includes Little League, Pony League, Babe Ruth
League and Industrial League. Lots of bumps and bruises, strained
muscles, et cetera, but no one was knocked unconscious or suffered a
debilitating spinal column injury.

Little kids have no business running motorized vehicles.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Harry, didn't you tell us that your father let you take out any boat
you wanted when you were a kid?
Here, idiot, learn something:

Tonino used data from the U.S. Consumer Produce Safety Commission on
injuries treated in emergency rooms.

The Top 15:

Basketball: 512,213
Bicycling: 485,669
Football: 418,260
Soccer: 174,686
Baseball: 155,898
Skateboards: 112,544
Trampolines: 108,029
Softball: 106,884
Swimming/Diving: 82,354
Horseback riding: 73,576
Weightlifting: 65,716
Volleyball: 52,091
Golf: 47,360
Roller skating: 35,003
Wrestling: 33,734

Pretty much meaningless numbers without some context. How many people played
each sport for how many hours? Do some sports tend to have far more serious
injuries than others? Is a broken spine from a trampoline counted the same as a
sprained ankle playing basketball?




They're not just "pretty much" meaningless, they are absolutely
meaningless because, as you state, they are sans context, and without
context, they're just numbers.

As you point out, a sprained ankle from playing basketball is not
serious, but a spinal injury from playing on a trampoline is serious.
10 spinal injuries outweigh 100,000 sprained ankles.

Imagine having to race a motorcycle whose welded repairs are made by
someone new to welding.

wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:34 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:


On the other hand, in a speed boat she wears a lifejacket, and on
horseback she wears a beenie, special pants, and riding boots designed
for control, not for crash protection.....

She is not even allowed to drive around the back yard, without full
gear, every last piece, every time... People who let their kids ride
with less, I leave them to the likes of wafa and donnie.. The great
protectors of children...

Calif Bill was pointing out exactly what you said. The Dr.'s report
that Donnie referenced was discussing unsupervised use of ATV's. It
didn't mention anything about motocross bikes.
--
This NG post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
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be considered flaws or defects

wrote:


They are just trolling, I answered Bill, as he is not a liar and is
capable of honest debate...

Bill actually agreed with you and was discussing the validity of
comparing that report of unsupervised use of ATV with no safety
equipment and participate who have not taken any classes in the safe use
of ATV to a sanctioned sport with training and strict safety rules.
--
This NG post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to
be considered flaws or defects

hk wrote:
JimH wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:58 pm, wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:56 pm, wrote:



On Aug 4, 3:46 pm, JimH wrote:
On Aug 4, 1:27 pm, wrote:
On Aug 4, 12:45 pm, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 4, 12:20 pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:
hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
In my opinion and in the opinion of many, any adult who
allows small
children to race motorcycles is encouraging reckless
endangerment and
more, and under the right circumstances, child abuse charges
could be
brought.
How about organized youth football, soccer, baseball, hockey or
golf? All have inherent danger of injuries. With the proper
equipment, supervision, and correctly sized dirt bike, I am
not sure
it's any more dangerous than the other activities I mentioned.
Eisboch
There's a possibility of injury with many sports activities,
of course,
but adding in the element of motorization, speed, gasoline,
vehicles
that might weigh several hundred pounds, and bumpy courses,
and the
resulting injuries can be very serious.
I don't believe "tackle" football should be played until high
school. In
all the years I played "organized" baseball in New Haven, I
never saw a
serious injury, and that includes Little League, Pony League,
Babe Ruth
League and Industrial League. Lots of bumps and bruises, strained
muscles, et cetera, but no one was knocked unconscious or
suffered a
debilitating spinal column injury.
Little kids have no business running motorized vehicles.
What about the stories of you operating a motorized jon boat at
the age
of 6?
--
This NG post is a natural product. The slight variations in
spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no
way are to
be considered flaws or defects- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Well, seeing how he acts, I am sure any trained professional would
wonder if that was the only type of abuse wafa suffered as a
child..
The kind of hate he spews suggests he lost trust in humanity
long ago.
The fact is, Activists are activists. Wafa is living proof that
especially liberal activists have little problem letting emotion
and
agenda get in the way of integerity or decency. As to Donnies post,
the emotionally driven statements are clear proof that although
educated, they are activists. Probably looking at the sport from
one
point of view. Most of them probably had their opinions before the
study, or had it fed to them by the govt that runs the fast failing
medical system up there. On to the next grant, and another easy
target. Geeze this job is so hard...
Do you actually read any of the documents you say you read? That
report
Don cited was from a group of pediatric surgeons. Do you even
know what
a pediatric surgeon does?
"Emotionally driven statements..." from pediatric surgeons, on the
subject of minimizing the number of kids they have to try to repair.
Yeah, to someone like you, that's "emotionally driven liberal
activism."
You probably are a smoker or ex smoker, too, right? Were you
resentful
when doctors in this country said smoking caused cancer?- Hide
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Pssst, hey idiot, the article was about one type of equipment, and
one
only. Nothing about any other sport or activity, so what do you
compare it to?
Here, learn something, instead of knee jerking a response just to try
and get someone to notice your pathetic ass.
Tonino used data from the U.S. Consumer Produce Safety Commission on
injuries treated in emergency rooms.
The Top 15:
Basketball: 512,213
Bicycling: 485,669
Football: 418,260
Soccer: 174,686
Baseball: 155,898
Skateboards: 112,544
Trampolines: 108,029
Softball: 106,884
Swimming/Diving: 82,354
Horseback riding: 73,576
Weightlifting: 65,716
Volleyball: 52,091
Golf: 47,360
Roller skating: 35,003
Wrestling: 33,734
What age group is considered in the report you quoted? Can you
provide a link?
===========================================
Here is one from the Consumer Products Safety Commission for 4 wheel
ATV's (note table 4):
http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/atv99.pdf
============================================
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...full/120/1/134
OBJECTIVES. The goals were to describe the epidemiological features of
pediatric nonautomobile motorized vehicle-related injuries sustained
between 1990 and 2003 and to compare all-terrain vehicle-related
injuries with other types of nonautomobile motorized vehicle-related
injuries.
METHODS. An analysis of nationally representative pediatric
nonautomobile motorized vehicle-related injury data from the US
Consumer Product Safety Commission National Electronic Injury
Surveillance System was performed.
RESULTS. Nationally, an estimated 1203800 children were treated in
hospital emergency departments for nonautomobile motorized vehicle-
related injuries between 1990 and 2003. These children had a mean age
of 12.7 years (range: 1 month to 19 years), and 77.0% were male. The
majority of injuries were associated with all-terrain vehicles
(44.8%), 2-wheeled off-road vehicles (21.1%), and go-carts/buggies
(13.7%). The most common diagnoses were contusions/abrasions (28.3%),
fractures (24.2%), and lacerations (20.0%). Overall, the number of
injuries increased 86% from 70500 injuries in 1990 to 130900 injuries
in 2003. The numbers of all-terrain vehicle-related, 2-wheeled off-
road vehicle-related, 2-wheeled on-road vehicle-related, and go-cart/
buggy-related injuries all increased significantly from 1990 to 2003.
There were greater proportions of all-terrain vehicle-associated
injuries among children ™16 years of age (48.0%) and children 12 to 15
years of age (46.6%) than among children 12 years of age (40.3%).
Conversely, the proportion of other nonautomobile motorized vehicle-
related injuries among children 12 years of age (47.2%) was greater
than that among children 12 to 15 years of age (30.3%) and children
™16 years of age (23.0%).
CONCLUSIONS. Although most public health and legislative attention to
date has been focused on all-terrain vehicles, parents, children, and
public officials should be educated about the injury risk that all
types of nonautomobile motorized vehicles pose to children.
======================================
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...2234680214262X
Background/Purpose: Despite statements by the American Academy of
Pediatrics (AAP) and the US Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC)
against the use of all-terrain vehicles (ATVs) by children under the
age of 16 years, nearly half of ATV-related injuries and over 35% of
all ATV-related deaths continue to occur in this age group.
======================================
You have your head in the sand if you do not think off road riding is
not dangerous for children.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You have you head in your ass or else don't know what to hell you are
talking about.
How many of those were the result of being at a sanctioned track,
with
a great deal of rules in place, with the rider equipped with the best
safety gear, with the rider trained to not go beyond his ability,
etc?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
They are just trolling, I answered Bill, as he is not a liar and is
capable of honest debate...

I gave you links. Go ahead and keep you head in the sand Scotty.


That would require reading and understanding. It ain't gonna happen.

Some parents help their kids have fun with traditional sports but expend
a lot more time and energy helping their kids excel in school so they
have a better chance of doing something with their lives.

And many parents do both. There is no way my son could have gotten into
Columbia with just straight A's and a 1600 SAT, too many others have the
exact same academic background. They want someone who has also excelled
outside of academics.

--
This NG post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to
be considered flaws or defects

On Aug 4, 4:54*pm, hk wrote:
JimH wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:58 pm, wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:56 pm, wrote:

On Aug 4, 3:46 pm, JimH wrote:
On Aug 4, 1:27 pm, wrote:
On Aug 4, 12:45 pm, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 4, 12:20 pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:
hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
news:AIKdnS2vS897jgrVnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@co mcast.com...
In my opinion and in the opinion of many, any adult who allows small
children to race motorcycles is encouraging reckless endangerment and
more, and under the right circumstances, child abuse charges could be
brought.
How about organized youth football, soccer, baseball, hockey or
golf? * *All have inherent danger of injuries. * With the proper
equipment, supervision, and correctly sized dirt bike, I am not sure
it's any more dangerous than the other activities I mentioned.
Eisboch
There's a possibility of injury with many sports activities, of course,
but adding in the element of motorization, speed, gasoline, vehicles
that might weigh several hundred pounds, and bumpy courses, and the
resulting injuries can be very serious.
I don't believe "tackle" football should be played until high school. In
all the years I played "organized" baseball in New Haven, I never saw a
serious injury, and that includes Little League, Pony League, Babe Ruth
League and Industrial League. Lots of bumps and bruises, strained
muscles, et cetera, but no one was knocked unconscious or suffered a
debilitating spinal column injury.
Little kids have no business running motorized vehicles.
What about the stories of you operating a motorized jon boat at the age
of 6?
--
This NG post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to
be considered flaws or defects- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Well, seeing how he acts, I am sure any trained professional would
wonder if that was the only type of abuse wafa suffered as a child..
The kind of hate he spews suggests he lost trust in humanity long ago.
The fact is, Activists are activists. Wafa is living proof that
especially liberal activists have little problem letting emotion and
agenda get in the way of integerity or decency. As to Donnies post,
the emotionally driven statements are clear proof that although
educated, they are activists. Probably looking at the sport from one
point of view. Most of them probably had their opinions before the
study, or had it fed to them by the govt that runs the fast failing
medical system up there. On to the next grant, and another easy
target. Geeze this job is so hard...
Do you actually read any of the documents you say you read? That report
Don cited was from a group of pediatric surgeons. Do you even know what
a pediatric surgeon does?
"Emotionally driven statements..." from pediatric surgeons, on the
subject of minimizing the number of kids they have to try to repair.

On Aug 4, 5:24*pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:
wrote:

They are just trolling, I answered Bill, as he is not a liar and is
capable of honest debate...

Bill actually agreed with you and was discussing the validity of
comparing that report of unsupervised use of ATV with no safety
equipment and participate who have not taken any classes in the safe use
of ATV to a sanctioned sport with training and strict safety rules.
--
This NG post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to
be considered flaws or defects

Yes, I was just following up on his post..

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:



Do you actually read any of the documents you say you read? That report
Don cited was from a group of pediatric surgeons. Do you even know what a
pediatric surgeon does?



The report also had absolutely nothing to do with small, two wheeled, dirt
bike motorcycles.

Eisboch

On Aug 4, 6:08*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message

. ..

wrote:

Do you actually read any of the documents you say you read? That report
Don cited was from a group of pediatric surgeons. Do you even know what a
pediatric surgeon does?

The report also had absolutely nothing to do with small, two wheeled, dirt
bike motorcycles.

Eisboch

You mean wafa jimmie and donnie were being disingenuous? No
**** You can always tell when they are getting dug into a corner,
they get vulgar and personal. I usually consider the battle won when
jimmie or wafa start talikng about sexual organs and our wives or
children..

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:



Do you actually read any of the documents you say you read? That report
Don cited was from a group of pediatric surgeons. Do you even know what a
pediatric surgeon does?



The report also had absolutely nothing to do with small, two wheeled, dirt
bike motorcycles.

Eisboch





Think in the abstract. Oh...and there also was a statistic in the report
that related to two wheeled motorized vehicles.

--


John McCain - Same old politics, same failed policies.