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Fuel Starvation?
After a recent adventure to change the fuel sender, I had the misfortune
to have one of the 'sex-bolt'-like nuts on the inside of the tank break off and fall into the tank. The only access is via the small opening when the sender goes in. Unable to retrieve the broken nut, I called around and heard from three hopefully reliable sources that there is a strainer at the fuel line to prevent things such as this from entering the fuel line. During the second trip out since the new sender was installed, we were just about to the causeway bridge when the engine was acting as if it was not getting enough fuel. Watching the fuel management gauge, I noticed it going from its normal 11 gal at that speed, and slowly and consistently drop to just under 6 gal and then started to buck and hesitate as if not enough fuel. I was able to throttle down to idle and after a minute or so, throttle up again. This was a consistent behavior during the entire outing. Eventually idled home last last nite. On the positive side, it was a clear nite, almost full moon and relatively no boat traffic. All symptoms to me indicate the nut may be blocking the fuel line leading from the tank. The main access hatch where the feel sender is installed is NOT at the stern end of the fuel tank. It would be very difficult to gain access to the tank. The boat is just 4.5 years old. It looking at the other components, I also noticed this is the original fuel bulb as when it was new. It did not feel 'hard' as it had been, and almost had a feel of simply being old rubber. This is a sal****er environment and one thought is maybe an air leak or some other scenario besides the extra nut in the tank. I plan to today replace the bulb and any lines I can access which may appear dried, cracked, old, or simply a possible candidate to the problem. Any suggestions on maybe how to retrieve the nut from within the tank via the maybe 2 1/2 inch opening into an 80-gallon fuel tank? Any other ideas besides the nut which might help me resolve this issue? Thanx in advance!!! |
Fuel Starvation?
"DownTime" wrote in message . .. After a recent adventure to change the fuel sender, I had the misfortune to have one of the 'sex-bolt'-like nuts on the inside of the tank break off and fall into the tank. The only access is via the small opening when the sender goes in. Unable to retrieve the broken nut, I called around and heard from three hopefully reliable sources that there is a strainer at the fuel line to prevent things such as this from entering the fuel line. During the second trip out since the new sender was installed, we were just about to the causeway bridge when the engine was acting as if it was not getting enough fuel. Watching the fuel management gauge, I noticed it going from its normal 11 gal at that speed, and slowly and consistently drop to just under 6 gal and then started to buck and hesitate as if not enough fuel. I was able to throttle down to idle and after a minute or so, throttle up again. This was a consistent behavior during the entire outing. Eventually idled home last last nite. On the positive side, it was a clear nite, almost full moon and relatively no boat traffic. All symptoms to me indicate the nut may be blocking the fuel line leading from the tank. The main access hatch where the feel sender is installed is NOT at the stern end of the fuel tank. It would be very difficult to gain access to the tank. The boat is just 4.5 years old. It looking at the other components, I also noticed this is the original fuel bulb as when it was new. It did not feel 'hard' as it had been, and almost had a feel of simply being old rubber. This is a sal****er environment and one thought is maybe an air leak or some other scenario besides the extra nut in the tank. I plan to today replace the bulb and any lines I can access which may appear dried, cracked, old, or simply a possible candidate to the problem. Any suggestions on maybe how to retrieve the nut from within the tank via the maybe 2 1/2 inch opening into an 80-gallon fuel tank? Any other ideas besides the nut which might help me resolve this issue? Thanx in advance!!! Wonder what metal that nut is made of?? If it's something magnetic, you should be able to find a long flexible wand with a powerful magnet on the end for 'fishing'.... |
Fuel Starvation?
"DownTime" wrote in message . .. After a recent adventure to change the fuel sender, I had the misfortune to have one of the 'sex-bolt'-like nuts on the inside of the tank break off and fall into the tank. The only access is via the small opening when the sender goes in. Unable to retrieve the broken nut, I called around and heard from three hopefully reliable sources that there is a strainer at the fuel line to prevent things such as this from entering the fuel line. During the second trip out since the new sender was installed, we were just about to the causeway bridge when the engine was acting as if it was not getting enough fuel. Watching the fuel management gauge, I noticed it going from its normal 11 gal at that speed, and slowly and consistently drop to just under 6 gal and then started to buck and hesitate as if not enough fuel. I was able to throttle down to idle and after a minute or so, throttle up again. This was a consistent behavior during the entire outing. Eventually idled home last last nite. On the positive side, it was a clear nite, almost full moon and relatively no boat traffic. All symptoms to me indicate the nut may be blocking the fuel line leading from the tank. The main access hatch where the feel sender is installed is NOT at the stern end of the fuel tank. It would be very difficult to gain access to the tank. The boat is just 4.5 years old. It looking at the other components, I also noticed this is the original fuel bulb as when it was new. It did not feel 'hard' as it had been, and almost had a feel of simply being old rubber. This is a sal****er environment and one thought is maybe an air leak or some other scenario besides the extra nut in the tank. I plan to today replace the bulb and any lines I can access which may appear dried, cracked, old, or simply a possible candidate to the problem. Any suggestions on maybe how to retrieve the nut from within the tank via the maybe 2 1/2 inch opening into an 80-gallon fuel tank? Any other ideas besides the nut which might help me resolve this issue? Thanx in advance!!! Easy to tell if your problem is tank related. Take the small fuel line off the top of the tank and feed it into a portable tank full of fresh gas. If this fixes it you got tank problems. Clogged vent or collapsed vent tube. Clogged pickup screen. Bolt lodged in pickup tube(highly unlikely). Pinhole in pickup tube. (also highly unlikely). |
Fuel Starvation?
|
Fuel Starvation?
"DownTime" wrote in message
. .. After a recent adventure to change the fuel sender, I had the misfortune to have one of the 'sex-bolt'-like nuts on the inside of the tank break off and fall into the tank. The only access is via the small opening when the sender goes in. Unable to retrieve the broken nut, I called around and heard from three hopefully reliable sources that there is a strainer at the fuel line to prevent things such as this from entering the fuel line. During the second trip out since the new sender was installed, we were just about to the causeway bridge when the engine was acting as if it was not getting enough fuel. Watching the fuel management gauge, I noticed it going from its normal 11 gal at that speed, and slowly and consistently drop to just under 6 gal and then started to buck and hesitate as if not enough fuel. I was able to throttle down to idle and after a minute or so, throttle up again. This was a consistent behavior during the entire outing. Eventually idled home last last nite. On the positive side, it was a clear nite, almost full moon and relatively no boat traffic. All symptoms to me indicate the nut may be blocking the fuel line leading from the tank. The main access hatch where the feel sender is installed is NOT at the stern end of the fuel tank. It would be very difficult to gain access to the tank. The boat is just 4.5 years old. It looking at the other components, I also noticed this is the original fuel bulb as when it was new. It did not feel 'hard' as it had been, and almost had a feel of simply being old rubber. This is a sal****er environment and one thought is maybe an air leak or some other scenario besides the extra nut in the tank. I plan to today replace the bulb and any lines I can access which may appear dried, cracked, old, or simply a possible candidate to the problem. Any suggestions on maybe how to retrieve the nut from within the tank via the maybe 2 1/2 inch opening into an 80-gallon fuel tank? Any other ideas besides the nut which might help me resolve this issue? Thanx in advance!!! The chances of the nut blocking the pickup are very slim to none. I'd want to get it out though as the combination of it, whatever metal your tank is, and the sludge at the bottom of the tank might be a formula for corrosion. Auto tool places have magnetic pickups on the end of a long flexible rod. Get one of those. Is the pickup welded in? Sometimes they come out like a sending unit. I agree it sounds like fuel starvation. Replacing all the rubber is a good place to start. Even if that's not the problem it gets old anyway. |
Fuel Starvation?
DownTime wrote:
Thanx to the responders so far. I've decided to replace all the rubber from the top of the tank to the intake to the engine. Next is to replace all filters as well. While in the local neighborhood marine supply store, in talking to the very helpful clerk, he mentioned he's heard recently of quite a few people having problems more related to the latest shipments of ethanol enhanced gas. In speaking with a local tank cleaning company, who by the way are coming tomorrow morning to clean the tank, he mentioned that ethanol is really more like a solvent and will work to strip away any built-up sludge or deposits from inside the tank. Even in speaking with my regular mechanic, the nut in the tank is more a coincidence than the problem. Once the tank is cleaned and everything back together, I'll post an update. By the way, I had also recently received an email notice from the BMW dealership stating that use of ethanol products in my M3 could contribute to invalidating the warranty. Stay tuned... |
Fuel Starvation?
On Jul 21, 10:45*am, DownTime wrote:
DownTime wrote: Thanx to the responders so far. I've decided to replace all the rubber from the top of the tank to the intake to the engine. Next is to replace all filters as well. While in the local neighborhood marine supply store, in talking to the very helpful clerk, he mentioned he's heard recently of quite a few people having problems more related to the latest shipments of ethanol enhanced gas. In speaking with a local tank cleaning company, who by the way are coming tomorrow morning to clean the tank, he mentioned that ethanol is really more like a solvent and will work to strip away any built-up sludge or deposits from inside the tank. Even in speaking with my regular mechanic, the nut in the tank is more a coincidence than the problem. Once the tank is cleaned and everything back together, I'll post an update. By the way, I had also recently received an email notice from the BMW dealership stating that use of ethanol products in my M3 could contribute to invalidating the warranty. Stay tuned... Odds are good the tank cleaning will also remove the offending nut. It's pretty easy to get most of the water/sludge out with one of those hand oil pumps on a lot of tanks yourself. Remove the sending unit. Then lower or raise the trailer so that the end of the tank that the sending unit goes in is the lowest point. If you look down into the tank with a flashlight you should be able to see the water layer on the bottom of the tank. With a helper holding the flashlight put the oil drain hose down into the bottom and watch as you suck up the layer of water and sludge on the bottom with the hand pump. Stop when you start pumping gas. |
Fuel Starvation?
DownTime wrote in news:ds-
: By the way, I had also recently received an email notice from the BMW dealership stating that use of ethanol products in my M3 could contribute to invalidating the warranty. Stay tuned... FANTASTIC! You need to read this FEDERAL LAW very carefully! http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/.../warranty.shtm FTC booklet to business....everyone should read it. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/ch50.html The whole law...written in plain English you can understand. You might be interested in reading 2302 (c) on: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15...2----000-.html which tells them they CANNOT specify brand or trade name for anything for your M3 unless they are willing to PROVIDE IT FOR THE LIFE OF THE PRODUCT. That's why your car manual doesn't force you to run only genuine BMW lube oil at $39/quart.....That's against the law. I'd like to see their stance on fuel tested in front of an administrative law judge. That might be fun to watch. They CAN, by the way, apply to the FTC for a waiver, but I bet this is just trying to weasle out of the warranty and a waiver does not exist. Call the FTC and tell them what BMW sent you and ask them if they gave BMW a waiver from the Magnusson Moss Warranty Protection Act 15USC50 2302(c) provision..... I sent back a Yamaha GP1200 defective PWC in 1997 under 2304(a)(4) when they couldn't or wouldn't fix its many problems. Yamaha's Lorrie Combelick, the big cheeze in warranty service, told me, "Larry, there's no way we're EVER going to take back that boat!", the last time she talked to me. She was wrong!....(c; I returned it to the letter of the law after dicking around with their crooked dealer all summer, here, and simply returned their defective product for a full refund, by refusing to pay for it to the credit company. We tried for months to get them to sue us or ruin my spotless credit rating. My attorney wanted a new beach house on the Isle of Palms. I had my eye on that pretty gold colored Mercedes C-class sedan, at the time.....nuts. 15USC50 is not just a good idea....IT'S THE LAW!....(c; It's why WalMart cheerfully refunds your money when the new toaster croaks. Walmart is NOT your friend. They are following the law! At somewhere around $1000, corporations think they are immune from the law, choosing to bull**** and fight. They're not immune.... |
Fuel Starvation?
Larry wrote:
wrote in news:0f0b01dd-f97f-4a8b-a0f3- : If you look down into the tank with a flashlight you should be able to see the water layer on the bottom of the tank. With a helper holding the flashlight AAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKK!k!!!!!!! BOOOOOOOOOOM!!!! The flashlight isn't explosion proof!!! The empty tank is FULL OF EXPLOSIVE FUMES...GAS MIXED WITH AIR!! Righto...a flare would be mo' betta'! |
Fuel Starvation?
Gene Kearns wrote:
"Nothing in this chapter shall prohibit the selling of a consumer product which has both full and limited warranties if such warranties are clearly and conspicuously differentiated. " Most warranties are going to be fairly specific about the type of fuel you can use. If not, there would be people wanting to sue them over unsuccessfully using propane (or acetylene, or hydrogen) in a boat. The law was on your side.... it probably won't be for Downtime.... The full email is pasted below. I am curious to know if they, or any company can decide to change warranty terms 'on the fly'. I think I might be missing something here, time for a call to the dealer to clarify this. "To All BMW of Fort Myers Customers: We have been advised by BMWNA that with the release of E10 and E85 gasoline with ethanol, there is a need to advise customers that is very important to put quality gasoline into their vehicles. The sale of E10, blended ethanol fuel, is on the rise in the US as more states are mandating its use to improve air quality. Also promoting the growth of E10 allows the phase out of the current additive MTBE that has been found to contaminate ground water supplies. Even so, the amount of ethanol added to the gasoline could raise the alcohol level of the fuel and cause your vehicle to crank, but not start; stall out; and/or run rough. BMW has advised us that they will not warranty, or goodwill, necessary repairs due to bad gas or high alcohol content in the fuel. Some of the parts that could be damaged by poor fuel quality include fuel pumps (high pressure pumps as well), fuel filter, injectors, etc. The problems start because E10 is very effective solvent and it will attack varnish, gum, and resins: the sludge that can build up in fuel tanks. Once cleaned off the fuel tank walls, poor performance with clogged filters and injectors is common. Also ethanol has a great affinity for water, and will attract moisture from the atmosphere. Water is heavier than gas so the water/ethanol molecule is dragged to the bottom of the tank and separates from the more buoyant fuel molecules. This is called phase separation. When this separation occurs you end up with a corrosive water/ethanol layer on the bottom of the tank, under what is now substandard fuel. Water displaces gasoline and then pits and corrodes the metal surfaces causing premature wear on the fuel pump. Water also reacts with various components in the fuel and forms acids, which corrode the injector tips as well. Water when sucked into an engine will shut it down. It must be cleaned, and the oil changed. However, a water/ethanol mixture causes a more serious problem, because instead of just shutting the engine down, the mixture can be partially combusted, but not effectively, which can damage the engine. Over a period of time this mixture will cause excessive carbon deposits, which can wear on pistons and valves. We recommend that only "top tier" fuels be used, and if necessary a gasoline additive with "techron" be added, occasionally. If possible, make sure you know your gasoline retailer and try to buy your gasoline from the same location as often as possible. The best deal isn't always the cheapest deal." |
Fuel Starvation?
DownTime wrote:
Gene Kearns wrote: "Nothing in this chapter shall prohibit the selling of a consumer product which has both full and limited warranties if such warranties are clearly and conspicuously differentiated. " Most warranties are going to be fairly specific about the type of fuel you can use. If not, there would be people wanting to sue them over unsuccessfully using propane (or acetylene, or hydrogen) in a boat. The law was on your side.... it probably won't be for Downtime.... The full email is pasted below. I am curious to know if they, or any company can decide to change warranty terms 'on the fly'. I think I might be missing something here, time for a call to the dealer to clarify this. "To All BMW of Fort Myers Customers: We have been advised by BMWNA that with the release of E10 and E85 gasoline with ethanol, there is a need to advise customers that is very important to put quality gasoline into their vehicles. The sale of E10, blended ethanol fuel, is on the rise in the US as more states are mandating its use to improve air quality. Also promoting the growth of E10 allows the phase out of the current additive MTBE that has been found to contaminate ground water supplies. Even so, the amount of ethanol added to the gasoline could raise the alcohol level of the fuel and cause your vehicle to crank, but not start; stall out; and/or run rough. BMW has advised us that they will not warranty, or goodwill, necessary repairs due to bad gas or high alcohol content in the fuel. Some of the parts that could be damaged by poor fuel quality include fuel pumps (high pressure pumps as well), fuel filter, injectors, etc. The problems start because E10 is very effective solvent and it will attack varnish, gum, and resins: the sludge that can build up in fuel tanks. Once cleaned off the fuel tank walls, poor performance with clogged filters and injectors is common. Also ethanol has a great affinity for water, and will attract moisture from the atmosphere. Water is heavier than gas so the water/ethanol molecule is dragged to the bottom of the tank and separates from the more buoyant fuel molecules. This is called phase separation. When this separation occurs you end up with a corrosive water/ethanol layer on the bottom of the tank, under what is now substandard fuel. Water displaces gasoline and then pits and corrodes the metal surfaces causing premature wear on the fuel pump. Water also reacts with various components in the fuel and forms acids, which corrode the injector tips as well. Water when sucked into an engine will shut it down. It must be cleaned, and the oil changed. However, a water/ethanol mixture causes a more serious problem, because instead of just shutting the engine down, the mixture can be partially combusted, but not effectively, which can damage the engine. Over a period of time this mixture will cause excessive carbon deposits, which can wear on pistons and valves. We recommend that only "top tier" fuels be used, and if necessary a gasoline additive with "techron" be added, occasionally. If possible, make sure you know your gasoline retailer and try to buy your gasoline from the same location as often as possible. The best deal isn't always the cheapest deal." This is absurdity on its face. Almost all gasoline is delivered to retail stations from tank farms, where everyone's product is pretty much exactly this same, other than additives dumped in to raise octane. You think "Shell" gasoline comes from Shell? How are you supposed to know if you are buying "top tier" gasoline, since what's in the tanks of the service stations could be almost anything. |
Fuel Starvation?
"DownTime" wrote in message . .. Gene Kearns wrote: "Nothing in this chapter shall prohibit the selling of a consumer product which has both full and limited warranties if such warranties are clearly and conspicuously differentiated. " Most warranties are going to be fairly specific about the type of fuel you can use. If not, there would be people wanting to sue them over unsuccessfully using propane (or acetylene, or hydrogen) in a boat. The law was on your side.... it probably won't be for Downtime.... The full email is pasted below. I am curious to know if they, or any company can decide to change warranty terms 'on the fly'. I think I might be missing something here, time for a call to the dealer to clarify this. "To All BMW of Fort Myers Customers: We have been advised by BMWNA that with the release of E10 and E85 gasoline with ethanol, there is a need to advise customers that is very important to put quality gasoline into their vehicles. The sale of E10, blended ethanol fuel, is on the rise in the US as more states are mandating its use to improve air quality. Also promoting the growth of E10 allows the phase out of the current additive MTBE that has been found to contaminate ground water supplies. Even so, the amount of ethanol added to the gasoline could raise the alcohol level of the fuel and cause your vehicle to crank, but not start; stall out; and/or run rough. BMW has advised us that they will not warranty, or goodwill, necessary repairs due to bad gas or high alcohol content in the fuel. Some of the parts that could be damaged by poor fuel quality include fuel pumps (high pressure pumps as well), fuel filter, injectors, etc. The problems start because E10 is very effective solvent and it will attack varnish, gum, and resins: the sludge that can build up in fuel tanks. Once cleaned off the fuel tank walls, poor performance with clogged filters and injectors is common. Also ethanol has a great affinity for water, and will attract moisture from the atmosphere. Water is heavier than gas so the water/ethanol molecule is dragged to the bottom of the tank and separates from the more buoyant fuel molecules. This is called phase separation. When this separation occurs you end up with a corrosive water/ethanol layer on the bottom of the tank, under what is now substandard fuel. Water displaces gasoline and then pits and corrodes the metal surfaces causing premature wear on the fuel pump. Water also reacts with various components in the fuel and forms acids, which corrode the injector tips as well. Water when sucked into an engine will shut it down. It must be cleaned, and the oil changed. However, a water/ethanol mixture causes a more serious problem, because instead of just shutting the engine down, the mixture can be partially combusted, but not effectively, which can damage the engine. Over a period of time this mixture will cause excessive carbon deposits, which can wear on pistons and valves. We recommend that only "top tier" fuels be used, and if necessary a gasoline additive with "techron" be added, occasionally. If possible, make sure you know your gasoline retailer and try to buy your gasoline from the same location as often as possible. The best deal isn't always the cheapest deal." I predict a sharp decline in BMW sales in the U S of A. |
Fuel Starvation?
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:55:09 -0400, HK penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: DownTime wrote: Gene Kearns wrote: "Nothing in this chapter shall prohibit the selling of a consumer product which has both full and limited warranties if such warranties are clearly and conspicuously differentiated. " Most warranties are going to be fairly specific about the type of fuel you can use. If not, there would be people wanting to sue them over unsuccessfully using propane (or acetylene, or hydrogen) in a boat. The law was on your side.... it probably won't be for Downtime.... The full email is pasted below. I am curious to know if they, or any company can decide to change warranty terms 'on the fly'. I think I might be missing something here, time for a call to the dealer to clarify this. "To All BMW of Fort Myers Customers: We have been advised by BMWNA that with the release of E10 and E85 gasoline with ethanol, there is a need to advise customers that is very important to put quality gasoline into their vehicles. The sale of E10, blended ethanol fuel, is on the rise in the US as more states are mandating its use to improve air quality. Also promoting the growth of E10 allows the phase out of the current additive MTBE that has been found to contaminate ground water supplies. Even so, the amount of ethanol added to the gasoline could raise the alcohol level of the fuel and cause your vehicle to crank, but not start; stall out; and/or run rough. BMW has advised us that they will not warranty, or goodwill, necessary repairs due to bad gas or high alcohol content in the fuel. Some of the parts that could be damaged by poor fuel quality include fuel pumps (high pressure pumps as well), fuel filter, injectors, etc. The problems start because E10 is very effective solvent and it will attack varnish, gum, and resins: the sludge that can build up in fuel tanks. Once cleaned off the fuel tank walls, poor performance with clogged filters and injectors is common. Also ethanol has a great affinity for water, and will attract moisture from the atmosphere. Water is heavier than gas so the water/ethanol molecule is dragged to the bottom of the tank and separates from the more buoyant fuel molecules. This is called phase separation. When this separation occurs you end up with a corrosive water/ethanol layer on the bottom of the tank, under what is now substandard fuel. Water displaces gasoline and then pits and corrodes the metal surfaces causing premature wear on the fuel pump. Water also reacts with various components in the fuel and forms acids, which corrode the injector tips as well. Water when sucked into an engine will shut it down. It must be cleaned, and the oil changed. However, a water/ethanol mixture causes a more serious problem, because instead of just shutting the engine down, the mixture can be partially combusted, but not effectively, which can damage the engine. Over a period of time this mixture will cause excessive carbon deposits, which can wear on pistons and valves. We recommend that only "top tier" fuels be used, and if necessary a gasoline additive with "techron" be added, occasionally. If possible, make sure you know your gasoline retailer and try to buy your gasoline from the same location as often as possible. The best deal isn't always the cheapest deal." This is absurdity on its face. Almost all gasoline is delivered to retail stations from tank farms, where everyone's product is pretty much exactly this same, other than additives dumped in to raise octane. Gasoline is just... gasoline..... until additives are added during filling the truck..... or including additives *at* the truck.... How are you supposed to know if you are buying "top tier" gasoline, since what's in the tanks of the service stations could be almost anything. http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html And there's nothing to disqualify gas from the big unnamed tank at the local gas tank farm. |
Fuel Starvation?
On Jul 21, 7:00*pm, Gene Kearns
wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:55:09 -0400, HK penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: DownTime wrote: Gene Kearns wrote: "Nothing in this chapter shall prohibit the selling of a consumer product which has both full and limited warranties if such warranties are clearly and conspicuously differentiated. " Most warranties are going to be fairly specific about the type of fuel you can use. If not, there would be people wanting to sue them over unsuccessfully using propane (or acetylene, or hydrogen) in a boat. The law was on your side.... it probably won't be for Downtime.... The full email is pasted below. I am curious to know if they, or any company can decide to change warranty terms 'on the fly'. I think I might be missing something here, time for a call to the dealer to clarify this. "To All BMW of Fort Myers Customers: We have been advised by BMWNA that with the release of E10 and E85 gasoline with ethanol, there is a need to advise customers that is very important to put quality gasoline into their vehicles. The sale of E10, blended ethanol fuel, is on the rise in the US as more states are mandating its use to improve air quality. *Also promoting the growth of E10 allows the phase out of the current additive MTBE that has been found to contaminate ground water supplies. *Even so, the amount of ethanol added to the gasoline could raise the alcohol level of the fuel and cause your vehicle to crank, but not start; stall out; and/or run rough. *BMW has advised us that they will not warranty, or goodwill, necessary repairs due to bad gas or high alcohol content in the fuel. Some of the parts that could be damaged by poor fuel quality include fuel pumps (high pressure pumps as well), fuel filter, injectors, etc. The problems start because E10 is very effective solvent and it will attack varnish, gum, and resins: *the sludge that can build up in fuel tanks. *Once cleaned off the fuel tank walls, poor performance with clogged filters and injectors is common. *Also ethanol has a great affinity for water, and will attract moisture from the atmosphere. Water is heavier than gas so the water/ethanol molecule is dragged to the bottom of the tank and separates from the more buoyant fuel molecules. * This is called phase separation. *When this separation occurs you end up with a corrosive water/ethanol layer on the bottom of the tank, under what is now substandard fuel. *Water displaces gasoline and then pits and corrodes the metal surfaces causing premature wear on the fuel pump. *Water also reacts with various components in the fuel and forms acids, which corrode the injector tips as well. Water when sucked into an engine will shut it down. *It must be cleaned, and the oil changed. *However, a water/ethanol mixture causes a more serious problem, because instead of just shutting the engine down, the mixture can be partially combusted, but not effectively, which can damage the engine. *Over a period of time this mixture will cause excessive carbon deposits, which can wear on pistons and valves. We recommend that only "top tier" fuels be used, and if necessary a gasoline additive with "techron" be added, occasionally. *If possible, make sure you know your gasoline retailer and try to buy your gasoline from the same location as often as possible. *The best deal isn't always the cheapest deal." This is absurdity on its face. Almost all gasoline is delivered to retail stations from tank farms, where everyone's product is pretty much *exactly this same, other than additives dumped in to raise octane. Gasoline is just... gasoline..... until additives are added during filling the truck..... or including additives *at* the truck.... How are you supposed to know if you are buying "top tier" gasoline, since what's in the tanks of the service stations could be almost anything. http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html -- The Somerset Refinery was included in the top tier list. http://www.somersetoil.com/Somerset.htm They sell to unnamed retailers. http://www.somersetoil.com/Marketing.htm |
Fuel Starvation?
DownTime wrote in
: The full email is pasted below. I am curious to know if they, or any company can decide to change warranty terms 'on the fly'. Nope...Read the FTC manual. That printed warranty they gave you with the car is a binding contract between you for the duration of the warranty period. They're stuck with it. A good example of that is my experience with a set of Goodyear tires from Wally World. I bought the "lifetime warranty" Wally learned his lesson and no longer offers after having to eat so many of Goodyears crappy radials. They get bulges in them just sitting there with 32 PSI of atmosphere inside. I went through several sets of free tires before deciding this was crazy as they could explode and kill me, so put Kumho radials on it from a local large tire store and have had zero problems on Kumho tires. One of the auto dept managers faked an attempt to change my $9.76/tire extended lifetime-of-the-tread warranty...full replacement on failures, not prorating nonsense. My offer of a neatly printed copy of 15USC50 2301 et.al. was refused and that ended that nonsense. I had a contract! See ya in court! |
Fuel Starvation?
DownTime wrote in
: We recommend that only "top tier" fuels be used, and if necessary a gasoline additive with "techron" be added, occasionally. If possible, make sure you know your gasoline retailer and try to buy your gasoline from the same location as often as possible. The best deal isn't always the cheapest deal." PRECISELY why my new Smart car MUST be a DIESEL..... Looks like I'll have to go to Canada to get one....damn. While we're talking about cars, this official document....not your dealer's bull****....is a list of the cars YOU are allowed to IMPORT from anyplace that are "non-conforming" vehicles. Notice how all the Smart cars back to 2004 are listed....MUCH to my Smart dealer's dismay after telling me I won't be able to import a Smart diesel into the USA from Canada...pure bull****. http://www.epa.gov/EPA-IMPACT/2007/S...-27/i19118.htm a most interesting document if you are interested in importing something to bypass dealer profit margins. |
Fuel Starvation?
Gene Kearns wrote in
: http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html WOW! Turkey Hill Minit Markets made the list but HESS OIL didn't! I wonder how much Turkey Hill Minit Markets had to pay to get on this list? Where is Turkey Hill Minit Markets' main refinery, anyways?? Ah, I see it! It's right next to the AMSOIL REFINERY!!!! |
Fuel Starvation?
HK wrote in news:6eklcuF7havhU2
@mid.individual.net: Gasoline is gasoline is gasoline. I buy from high volume, lowest-priced stations, and pay no attention to brand names. Around here, the WaWa chain typically has the lowest retail price. I pull Yo Ho over to WaWa for gas, too. I have no idea whose brand of gasoline WaWa sells. You boys stop by Charleston. I know someone down at the Hess Oil Terminal that can get us on the tanker when it comes in so we can peer down into the tank the gas everyone puts in their BMW M3 comes from....gas floating on a thick film of SEAWATER BALLAST from the last load....(c; What nonsense....you're right. GAS IS GAS. |
Fuel Starvation?
Gene Kearns wrote in
: Here's the rub..... do those unnamed retailers cut the gasoline 50/50 with alcohol after it hits the truck? Nope...sometimes if they run out of "high test" the truck driver will drop a couple of dye tablets into the truck at the terminal so it'll convert white regular gas into colored "high test" before it gets to the station. Gas truck drivers pull up to the Hess dump...fill the truck and head out to refill the stations as quickly as possible, including the overpriced marinas! There's no "additives" in behind the seat to treat 70,000 gallons of regular! They'd have to tow two trailers, one with additives. You can't drop a pill into 70,000 gallons to change anything. What a hoot! The "Texaco" at Ashley Marina comes in on a tank truck from a truck company in N Charleston....not TEXACO. The driver just wants to get it over with so he can go home to see his kids and drink beer....like everybody else. |
Fuel Starvation?
Eisboch wrote:
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... That BMW email recommended "techron" as a fuel additive. To the best of my knowledge, Chevron is the only brand of gasoline that is advertised to contain techron. http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/chevwtech/ Eisboch I have two and didn't receive any email. Did you get one? |
Fuel Starvation?
"DK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... That BMW email recommended "techron" as a fuel additive. To the best of my knowledge, Chevron is the only brand of gasoline that is advertised to contain techron. http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/chevwtech/ Eisboch I have two and didn't receive any email. Did you get one? Nope. But, we don't have any BMW's anymore. Eisboch |
Fuel Starvation?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:26:06 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote: If not, there would be people wanting to sue them over unsuccessfully using propane (or acetylene, or hydrogen) in a boat. Propane mixes perfectly with air, with great ease, and has an octane rating of 100. Other than that. If there is an ideal fuel, propane is it. Casady |
Fuel Starvation?
Richard Casady wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:26:06 -0400, Gene Kearns wrote: If not, there would be people wanting to sue them over unsuccessfully using propane (or acetylene, or hydrogen) in a boat. Propane mixes perfectly with air, with great ease, and has an octane rating of 100. Other than that. If there is an ideal fuel, propane is it. Casady The only problem I see with LPG as a fuel for boat engines is that it is heavier than air and settles. If there is a leak in the tank or hoses, and the tank is below deck, the bilges are going to fill up with a pretty explosive gas. This is less of a problem on land vehicles, because there are more ways for "escaping" LPG to vent to the open air. Also, wouldn't the boat engine LPG fuel tank have to be a pressurized vessel? Yet another system on a boat that would have to be watched carefully. We have a 500-gallon LPG tank buried in our backyard. Its presence used to make me a bit nervous. |
Fuel Starvation?
On Jul 24, 11:35*am, HK wrote:
Richard Casady wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:26:06 -0400, Gene Kearns wrote: If not, there would be people wanting to sue them over unsuccessfully using propane (or acetylene, or hydrogen) in a boat. Propane mixes perfectly with air, with great ease, and has an octane rating of 100. Other than that. If there is an ideal fuel, propane is it. Casady The only problem I see with LPG as a fuel for boat engines is that it is heavier than air and settles. If there is a leak in the tank or hoses, and the tank is below deck, the bilges are going to fill up with a pretty explosive gas. This is less of a problem on land vehicles, because there are more ways for "escaping" LPG to vent to the open air. Also, wouldn't the boat engine LPG fuel tank have to be a pressurized vessel? Yet another system on a boat that would have to be watched carefully. We have a 500-gallon LPG tank buried in our backyard. Its presence used to make me a bit nervous. Propane turns to a liquid at a reasonable pressure and typically vapor supply pressures are not high at all. Gasoline is also heavier than air in both liquid and vapor states so boats have the same problem with either. Main issue is that there is not a robust supply system in place to provide propane as a vehicle fuel. And a gallon of propane only has 75% of the energy that a gallon of gas has so it would need to be a lot cheaper per gallon. |
Fuel Starvation?
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Fuel Starvation?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:48:08 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote: "DK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... That BMW email recommended "techron" as a fuel additive. To the best of my knowledge, Chevron is the only brand of gasoline that is advertised to contain techron. http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/chevwtech/ Eisboch I have two and didn't receive any email. Did you get one? Nope. But, we don't have any BMW's anymore. Eisboch I have owned two BMW's. One cost three hundred, the other seven hundred. Casady |
Fuel Starvation?
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:50:46 -0300, "Don White"
wrote: "DownTime" wrote in message ... After a recent adventure to change the fuel sender, I had the misfortune to have one of the 'sex-bolt'-like nuts on the inside of the tank break off and fall into the tank. The only access is via the small opening when the sender goes in. Unable to retrieve the broken nut, I called around and heard from three hopefully reliable sources that there is a strainer at the fuel line to prevent things such as this from entering the fuel line. During the second trip out since the new sender was installed, we were just about to the causeway bridge when the engine was acting as if it was not getting enough fuel. Watching the fuel management gauge, I noticed it going from its normal 11 gal at that speed, and slowly and consistently drop to just under 6 gal and then started to buck and hesitate as if not enough fuel. I was able to throttle down to idle and after a minute or so, throttle up again. This was a consistent behavior during the entire outing. Eventually idled home last last nite. On the positive side, it was a clear nite, almost full moon and relatively no boat traffic. All symptoms to me indicate the nut may be blocking the fuel line leading from the tank. The main access hatch where the feel sender is installed is NOT at the stern end of the fuel tank. It would be very difficult to gain access to the tank. The boat is just 4.5 years old. It looking at the other components, I also noticed this is the original fuel bulb as when it was new. It did not feel 'hard' as it had been, and almost had a feel of simply being old rubber. This is a sal****er environment and one thought is maybe an air leak or some other scenario besides the extra nut in the tank. I plan to today replace the bulb and any lines I can access which may appear dried, cracked, old, or simply a possible candidate to the problem. Any suggestions on maybe how to retrieve the nut from within the tank via the maybe 2 1/2 inch opening into an 80-gallon fuel tank? Any other ideas besides the nut which might help me resolve this issue? Thanx in advance!!! Wonder what metal that nut is made of?? If it's something magnetic, you should be able to find a long flexible wand with a powerful magnet on the end for 'fishing'.... They also make wands with a cable operated claw. Heard them called 'bolt retrievers' You buy them where you get the magnetic ones, that is, any decent auto parts house. Casady |
Fuel Starvation?
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:27:34 -0400, DK
wrote: Richard Casady wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:48:08 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "DK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... That BMW email recommended "techron" as a fuel additive. To the best of my knowledge, Chevron is the only brand of gasoline that is advertised to contain techron. http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/chevwtech/ Eisboch I have two and didn't receive any email. Did you get one? Nope. But, we don't have any BMW's anymore. Eisboch I have owned two BMW's. One cost three hundred, the other seven hundred. Casady In monthly repair bills? Seriously, I have been leasing for years now so I can avoid those problems and if something does need repair, it's covered and I have a free loaner while it's in the shop. The sixty-six only cost 2500 new. Casady |
Fuel Starvation?
Richard Casady wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:27:34 -0400, DK wrote: Richard Casady wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:48:08 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "DK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... That BMW email recommended "techron" as a fuel additive. To the best of my knowledge, Chevron is the only brand of gasoline that is advertised to contain techron. http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/chevwtech/ Eisboch I have two and didn't receive any email. Did you get one? Nope. But, we don't have any BMW's anymore. Eisboch I have owned two BMW's. One cost three hundred, the other seven hundred. Casady In monthly repair bills? Seriously, I have been leasing for years now so I can avoid those problems and if something does need repair, it's covered and I have a free loaner while it's in the shop. The sixty-six only cost 2500 new. Casady I bought a 2002ti for under $2400 new, back when it was new. It's about what it was worth, then...and now. All the high-end German family cars I have looked at in recent years seem grossly overpriced and overly complicated. You have to work pretty hard to find a mid-range vehicle that offers more than the Japanese offer these days. Of course, if you have a really short dick and are in desperate need of making sure people "notice* you when you pull into the supermarket parking lot, a nice "7" series BMW will do, for the two people in the parking lot who give a crap anymore about that sort of stuff. No offense to any current, past or future "overdone" BMW owners, of course. :) |
Fuel Starvation?
"HK" wrote in message ... I bought a 2002ti for under $2400 new, back when it was new. It's about what it was worth, then...and now. All the high-end German family cars I have looked at in recent years seem grossly overpriced and overly complicated. You have to work pretty hard to find a mid-range vehicle that offers more than the Japanese offer these days. Of course, if you have a really short dick and are in desperate need of making sure people "notice* you when you pull into the supermarket parking lot, a nice "7" series BMW will do, for the two people in the parking lot who give a crap anymore about that sort of stuff. No offense to any current, past or future "overdone" BMW owners, of course. :) I briefly owned an '01 BMW 750iL. Black on black, no chrome, thick, bullet resistant, dark tinted glass, 12 cylinder. The car was absolutely a dream to drive anywhere long distance, like to Florida and back, but otherwise I rarely drove it. I can honestly say I didn't buy it to be "noticed". I bought it because I liked it. So, no offense taken. Mrs.E. also briefly owned an '06 version of the 750iL. Not anywhere as nice as the '01. It also had the infamous BMW "I-Drive" system that drove both of us nuts. What were they thinking? I've pretty much gone full circle with automobiles. Other than the Porsche, which still does not cease to amaze me, there really isn't any car out there, new or old, that captures my interest. My little Ranger truck does the job fine. Even losing interest in the GTO and the old Ford convertible Galaxie. Eisboch |
Fuel Starvation?
Richard Casady wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:27:34 -0400, DK wrote: Richard Casady wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:48:08 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "DK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... That BMW email recommended "techron" as a fuel additive. To the best of my knowledge, Chevron is the only brand of gasoline that is advertised to contain techron. http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/chevwtech/ Eisboch I have two and didn't receive any email. Did you get one? Nope. But, we don't have any BMW's anymore. Eisboch I have owned two BMW's. One cost three hundred, the other seven hundred. Casady In monthly repair bills? Seriously, I have been leasing for years now so I can avoid those problems and if something does need repair, it's covered and I have a free loaner while it's in the shop. The sixty-six only cost 2500 new. Casady 66? The E66 is a 7-series from early 2000. What are you talking about? |
Fuel Starvation?
On Jul 26, 8:47*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message ... I bought a 2002ti for under $2400 new, back when it was new. It's about what it was worth, then...and now. All the high-end German family cars I have looked at in recent years seem grossly overpriced and overly complicated. You have to work pretty hard to find a mid-range vehicle that offers more than the Japanese offer these days. Of course, if you have a really short dick and are in desperate need of making sure people "notice* you when you pull into the supermarket parking lot, a nice "7" series BMW will do, for the two people in the parking lot who give a crap anymore about that sort of stuff. No offense to any current, past or future "overdone" BMW owners, of course. *:) I briefly owned an '01 *BMW 750iL. * Black on black, *no chrome, thick, bullet resistant, dark tinted glass, 12 cylinder. *The car was absolutely a dream to drive anywhere long distance, like to Florida and back, but otherwise I rarely drove it. I can honestly say I didn't buy it to be "noticed". * I bought it because I liked it. *So, no offense taken. Mrs.E. also briefly owned an '06 version of the 750iL. * Not anywhere as nice as the '01. *It also had the infamous BMW "I-Drive" system that drove both of us nuts. * What were they thinking? I've pretty much gone full circle with automobiles. *Other than the Porsche, which still does not cease to amaze me, there really isn't any car out there, new or old, that captures my interest. * My little Ranger truck does the job fine. Even losing interest in the GTO and the old Ford convertible Galaxie. Eisboch You learned well Grasshopper. Material things are ofter easy to buy............they do not however often bring happiness to ones life. ;-) |
Fuel Starvation?
"JimH" wrote in message ... You learned well Grasshopper. Material things are ofter easy to buy............they do not however often bring happiness to ones life. ;-) --------------------- Wrong, Pilgrim. I didn't "learn" anything. The material things I own or have owned were purchased because they interested me and I enjoyed them. Some still interest me. Some have served their time. I like trying different things. Keeps life interesting. Eisboch |
Fuel Starvation?
On Jul 26, 9:20*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message ... You learned well Grasshopper. * *Material things are ofter easy to buy............they do not however often bring happiness to ones life. * ;-) --------------------- Wrong, Pilgrim. I didn't "learn" anything. * The material things I own or have owned were purchased because they interested me and I enjoyed them. *Some still interest me. *Some have served their time. I like trying different things. *Keeps life interesting. Eisboch One day you may learn, although I think you already have but will not admit. Carry on Grasshopper. |
Fuel Starvation?
"JimH" wrote in message ... On Jul 26, 9:20 pm, "Eisboch" wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... You learned well Grasshopper. Material things are ofter easy to buy............they do not however often bring happiness to ones life. ;-) --------------------- Wrong, Pilgrim. I didn't "learn" anything. The material things I own or have owned were purchased because they interested me and I enjoyed them. Some still interest me. Some have served their time. I like trying different things. Keeps life interesting. Eisboch One day you may learn, although I think you already have but will not admit. Carry on Grasshopper. ---------------- Let's not go down that path again. It really doesn't become you. You take care of you. I'll take care of me. Eisboch |
Fuel Starvation?
On Jul 26, 9:33*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message ... On Jul 26, 9:20 pm, "Eisboch" wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... You learned well Grasshopper. Material things are ofter easy to buy............they do not however often bring happiness to ones life. ;-) --------------------- Wrong, Pilgrim. I didn't "learn" anything. The material things I own or have owned were purchased because they interested me and I enjoyed them. Some still interest me. Some have served their time. I like trying different things. Keeps life interesting. Eisboch One day you may learn, although I think you already have but will not admit. Carry on Grasshopper. ---------------- Let's not go down that path again. *It really doesn't become you. You take care of you. * I'll take care of me. Eisboch Fair enough.. I agree it is hard to disagree with the points I brought up. Have a good evening. |
Fuel Starvation?
"JimH" wrote in message ... On Jul 26, 9:33 pm, "Eisboch" wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... On Jul 26, 9:20 pm, "Eisboch" wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... You learned well Grasshopper. Material things are ofter easy to buy............they do not however often bring happiness to ones life. ;-) --------------------- Wrong, Pilgrim. I didn't "learn" anything. The material things I own or have owned were purchased because they interested me and I enjoyed them. Some still interest me. Some have served their time. I like trying different things. Keeps life interesting. Eisboch One day you may learn, although I think you already have but will not admit. Carry on Grasshopper. ---------------- Let's not go down that path again. It really doesn't become you. You take care of you. I'll take care of me. Eisboch Fair enough.. I agree it is hard to disagree with the points I brought up. Have a good evening. MORON! |
Fuel Starvation?
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:04:05 -0400, DK
wrote: Richard Casady wrote: On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:27:34 -0400, DK wrote: Richard Casady wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:48:08 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "DK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... That BMW email recommended "techron" as a fuel additive. To the best of my knowledge, Chevron is the only brand of gasoline that is advertised to contain techron. http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/chevwtech/ Eisboch I have two and didn't receive any email. Did you get one? Nope. But, we don't have any BMW's anymore. Eisboch I have owned two BMW's. One cost three hundred, the other seven hundred. Casady In monthly repair bills? Seriously, I have been leasing for years now so I can avoid those problems and if something does need repair, it's covered and I have a free loaner while it's in the shop. The sixty-six only cost 2500 new. Casady 66? The E66 is a 7-series from early 2000. What are you talking about? A 1966 BMW. Casady |
Fuel Starvation?
JimH wrote:
On Jul 26, 9:33 pm, "Eisboch" wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... On Jul 26, 9:20 pm, "Eisboch" wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... You learned well Grasshopper. Material things are ofter easy to buy............they do not however often bring happiness to ones life. ;-) --------------------- Wrong, Pilgrim. I didn't "learn" anything. The material things I own or have owned were purchased because they interested me and I enjoyed them. Some still interest me. Some have served their time. I like trying different things. Keeps life interesting. Eisboch One day you may learn, although I think you already have but will not admit. Carry on Grasshopper. ---------------- Let's not go down that path again. It really doesn't become you. You take care of you. I'll take care of me. Eisboch Fair enough.. I agree it is hard to disagree with the points I brought up. Have a good evening. Why do I always sense of feeling of jealousy you have concerning Eisboch's and Wayne's financial success? You love to talk about your "heritage knives" and John Deere lawn mower, but resent it when someone else is more successful. Grasshopper, I think you have a lot to learn. To start with read the bible, they say something about coveting your neighbors goods. |
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