"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:48:00 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:25:28 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



I don't know about that. There's nothing on the horizon to influence
it
that way. I'd like to hear your reasoning.

It's pretty simple - it's a huge commodity bubble. There is absoutely
nothing, and I mean nothing, to support these levels in any sense of
the word. It's too much money chasing too little profit - a sort of
currency inflation if you will. If I'm right, and I'm pretty sure I
am, economic data will provide the catalyst for the crash - sometime
around the middle to the end of July.

Hmmmmm..... It sounds like you are basically in agreement with Doug.
Did hell just freeze over?

Well, obviously - six inches of snow last night and no open water
anywhere. :)

I'd add this - out of control information flow is also a function of
this - anything will move the market. If somebody sneezes in Nigeria,
another $.50 to $1. Fog in the Houston shipping channel - another
$.50 to a $1. And it happens more and more often - issues that
wouldn't have affected the price 10 years ago, now can cause 1-2%
changes in price instantly.


Bingo. And, it works in the exact same way as when irrelevant financial news
causes nervous old ladies to sell their Toyota stock because Kroger reported
a bad quarter.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...

What other monies will be spent to clean
up after the coal?

What is there to clean up? Modern scrubbers take nearly all of the
particulate matter out of the exhaust.


This assumes that some utilities don't purchase the privilege to not install
the latest equipment. As things stand right now, they are able to purchase
that privilege, and some have done so.

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:Mspyj.32409$w94.4370@pd7urf2no...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"HK" wrote in message
...

"Big Oil" helps set the price of the crude it buys. You think it
doesn't have "partners" sitting on the OPEC committees?

I'm sure they do. But, there are also speculators at work, in the
exact same way speculators dick with the price of stocks to the
point where their prices are completely disconnected from physical
& financial reality.

Speculative nonsense:

Think back. Although laughable when compared to current values, the
price of oil quadrupled during the oil "shortage" crisis in the
early 70's on Nixon's watch. Later that decade, under Carter it
doubled again in less than 12 months.

Neither had anything to do with Wall Street, Dick Cheney or secret
"Big Oil" meetings with OPEC.

Eisboch


That was then. This is now. And (separate issue), in this discussion,
I'm not concerned with any particular politician.

In the long list of things you buy regularly, can you think of 5 or 6
whose prices are determined by speculators, causing almost daily
price swings? I'm in the grocery biz, and I handle about 500
different products. I don't see this happening.

How about shoes, or anything else you buy?

I am on a conservation kick. I go barefoot.

Seriously, at 100 bucks or so a barrel, I don't see daily price swings
of a few dollars per barrel as being very significant.
There's something more than speculators causing prices to more than
double in two years. I admit, I don't fully understand how oil
prices are "set" despite JimH's links. Seems to me that those who
control the goods determine the price.

Eisboch

It's all the factors working together. Demand is part of it, but not
all of it. The problem is that people will gamble on absolutely
anything. If we added chick pea futures to the other available via the
commodities exchanges, people would be gambling on chick peas.
And if they are wrong, they lose their shirts.

Supply and demand eventually wins.


But someone always wins, no matter what happens to the speculators.
That's a multi-million dollar business, and it does not serve the best
interests of this country.

Why doesn't it serve the best interests of this country?



I'll need to use an analogy to answer that question. You OK with that?

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 08:14:43 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 16:20:57 -0500, John H. penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:16:03 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Mar 1, 3:26*pm, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 15:01:04 -0500, Gene Kearns





wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:29:41 -0500, John H. penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:52:23 -0500, BAR wrote:

Solution:

- build nuclear power plants
- build the wind farm off of Cape Cod
- drill to pump oil out of all of the oil fields within the US
- drill the hell out of the coast of Florida before the Chinese do
- build more refineries

I'll plagiarize that every chance I get.

Don't make yourself look silly.....

1) I pay bills at 2 locations: one coal fired, one nukular fired. The
nukular bill is about 1/3 higher. That isn't much of a "deal." I,
also, have a problem with sweeping the radioactive waste under the
carpet.

Which provides the cleaner energy? What other monies will be spent to clean
up after the coal? Is the difference in price due to the difference in
production cost or for some other reason?

2) I don't mind ****ing off the Kennedy's, but geographically I hope
it is not cutting off one's nose to spite one's face (the studies say,
not). Wind is a good way to go, though, and I suspect that the project
will be approved this year and we may see a turbine in place in about
4 years....

We are way behind. Take a trip through Denmark. You'll see what wind use is
all about. I don't believe it's possible to stop anywhere in the country
and not see a wind mill farm.

3) We might need those reserves for something regarding national
defense. Don't squander the nest egg for a big night on the town....

Don't know if he meant to pump out the old fields or drill and pump new
ones. You made a good point. Once things really get tight, we'll need the
oil to power our bombers and submarines.

4) Another geographically challenged thought.

But one that makes good sense. Do you think the Chinese are *not* working
with the Cubans to drill off the coast of Florida?

5) Tell the oil companies to stop CLOSING refineries. Has anybody
figured out that we have 1/2 the refineries we used to have and that
"lack of capacity" has the oil companies weeping all of the way to the
bank?

The oil companies closed old, small, inefficient refineries.

Certainly, America can develop technologies that will make oil
unnecessary. Then we would have an economic advantage far exceeding of
the current countries with significant oil reserves.

Go NUCLEAR!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree, but the problem is that it isn't an instant fix by a long
shot. It takes a hell of a long time to get a nuke plant built, and
online. Was watching an economist and energy expert talking about this
just today, and he, like me is all for nuclear energy, but in the
meantime thinks, as do I that we need to do more to get solar and wind
farms up and running to offset the lag time in getting nuke plants
operational.

Loogy, you should have started talking to the liberals about 20 years ago!

Maybe we should just emulate the French.....
http://www.uic.com.au/nip28.htm

We should. I said this a couple years ago. Note the comments on the
recycling of nuclear waste. This greatly reduces the waste problem you
mentioned in an earlier message.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Sun, 2 Mar 2008 10:35:57 -0400, "Don White"
wrote:


"BAR" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
news Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:23:44 -0500, HK
wrote:

BAR wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"HK" wrote in message
...
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- President Bush, saying he was
unaware of
predictions of $4-a-gallon gasoline in the coming months, told
reporters Thursday that the best way to help Americans fend off
high
prices is for Congress to make his first-term tax cuts
permanent.

...

Analysts have said that gasoline could reach $4 a gallon by
this
spring, due to strong demand and a change in formulation, among
other reasons.

When taking the question about the $4 milestone, Bush told the
reporter, *"That's interesting. I hadn't heard that."*
Strong demand. What a crock of ****. Last spring, it was "on
fears of
renewed violence in Baghdad". Prices are effected by events in a
country from which we get pretty much zero oil?

Can somebody please explain to me why high oil prices is
perceived as
a unique problem to the USA with Bush at the center of the cause?
Political blame for US election advantage.

The sad thing is that Bush leaves office as soon as the next
President
is sworn in on 1/20/09. Why is everyone running against Bush?


The sad thing? There will be dancing in the streets when the IDIOT
heads
back to Crawford, or wherever he plans to go to take up his video
games,
booze, coke, and drunken driving.

Oh...it is the *failed* Bush-GOP policies against which the Dems
will
run. Got it?
Harry, does your mother know you're telling lies about her?

You're still past tense.
--
John H

Back to bringing families into the foolishness here eh Johnny?
Time for an extended Goofy cruise..... from now until May would just
about do it.
Did you lazy son drink all of your beer again?

Speaking of idiots...........
I don't have a lazy son laying around my house, watching my TV, eating
my food and drinking my beer.


Well.. believe it or not, looks like we have something in common.
The only thing my son does on your list is .. he eats most of his meals
here...... but since he pays 'room & board', I assume this is acceptable
to you?

Any child over the age of 25 still living at home regardless of paying
rent or room and board should be pushed out the door. Your children need
to find their own way in life and they should be strongly encouraged to do
so. There are exceptions for physically or mentally disabled.



Is this Blurt, the pseudo Christian or Blurt, the pseudo marine talkin'?


Smart assed question from one who wouldn't make a pimple on a Marine's ass.

Be your own man, Don. Harry doesn't need your hand-licking, tail-wagging,
puppy dogging.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:45:29 -0500, HK wrote:

BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 21:09:02 -0500, HK wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
I'll bet that Dicque Cheney is working right now with his "BIG
OIL" buddies to try to knock the price of gas down temporarily
two weeks before the November elections.
Sure he is Harry. Sure he is.

The blame for the price of oil doesn't reside with politicians,
current or past.
The blame resides with us.

Eisboch
I think a steep "excess profits tax" would tighten things up a
hair, that and members representing the public and responsible
to it sitting on big oil boards.
How will that affect the price of a barrel of oil here? Or in
Japan? or in China? or in Sweden? or in Great Britain? or in
Germany? or Italy?

Eisboch
Oversight and pressure, and the excess profits tax could be used
to help non-profit entities unaffiliated with big oil develop
alternative energy sources.
Wistful thinking. Despite your protests, industry drives
innovation and technical development, not "non-profit" centers
staffed with lifelong members of academia making a living on
government grants. I've been exposed to both for many, many years.
Industry is what makes things happen and imposing more taxes on it
simply slows things down.

Eisboch


I see no reason to trust Big Oil, and I wasn't suggesting academia.

Harry, your original comment was pure, liberal, anti-Bush, stupid.
But, it
did get Eisboch talking to you again, to tell you so. Therefore, it must
have been worthwhile.


You don't really think I give a damn about what your three crosswired
synapses produce, do you?

If you didn't care you wouldn't respond.


You ought to consider putting a halt to your projecting, Blurt.

To me, the non-thinking, doctrinaire *far* righties like Herring, you,
and a couple of others here are just subjects for ridicule, certainly
not anyone to take seriously.

Why would I care what you think? What you think doesn't matter.

Harry, you're the reigning expert on receiving ridicule. I'll bow to your
expertise in that arena.

How's the lobsta' boat?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Mar 2008 10:35:57 -0400, "Don White"
wrote:


"BAR" wrote in message
m...
Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
news Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:23:44 -0500, HK
wrote:

BAR wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"HK" wrote in message
...
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- President Bush, saying he was
unaware of
predictions of $4-a-gallon gasoline in the coming months,
told
reporters Thursday that the best way to help Americans fend
off
high
prices is for Congress to make his first-term tax cuts
permanent.

...

Analysts have said that gasoline could reach $4 a gallon by
this
spring, due to strong demand and a change in formulation,
among
other reasons.

When taking the question about the $4 milestone, Bush told
the
reporter, *"That's interesting. I hadn't heard that."*
Strong demand. What a crock of ****. Last spring, it was "on
fears of
renewed violence in Baghdad". Prices are effected by events in
a
country from which we get pretty much zero oil?

Can somebody please explain to me why high oil prices is
perceived as
a unique problem to the USA with Bush at the center of the
cause?
Political blame for US election advantage.

The sad thing is that Bush leaves office as soon as the next
President
is sworn in on 1/20/09. Why is everyone running against Bush?


The sad thing? There will be dancing in the streets when the
IDIOT
heads
back to Crawford, or wherever he plans to go to take up his video
games,
booze, coke, and drunken driving.

Oh...it is the *failed* Bush-GOP policies against which the Dems
will
run. Got it?
Harry, does your mother know you're telling lies about her?

You're still past tense.
--
John H

Back to bringing families into the foolishness here eh Johnny?
Time for an extended Goofy cruise..... from now until May would
just
about do it.
Did you lazy son drink all of your beer again?

Speaking of idiots...........
I don't have a lazy son laying around my house, watching my TV, eating
my food and drinking my beer.


Well.. believe it or not, looks like we have something in common.
The only thing my son does on your list is .. he eats most of his meals
here...... but since he pays 'room & board', I assume this is
acceptable
to you?

Any child over the age of 25 still living at home regardless of paying
rent or room and board should be pushed out the door. Your children need
to find their own way in life and they should be strongly encouraged to
do
so. There are exceptions for physically or mentally disabled.



Is this Blurt, the pseudo Christian or Blurt, the pseudo marine talkin'?


Smart assed question from one who wouldn't make a pimple on a Marine's
ass.

Be your own man, Don. Harry doesn't need your hand-licking, tail-wagging,
puppy dogging.
--
John H


The connection between Harry and anyone else is largely imaginary. He just
jumps in the "help" whether anyone needs it or not. But, you're the same
way. When you live in a glass house, don't throw stones.

John H. wrote:


Smart assed question from one who wouldn't make a pimple on a Marine's ass.



Tough soldier talk! snerk

Herring, of course, is the newsgroup expert on soldier ass.

"HK" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:


Smart assed question from one who wouldn't make a pimple on a Marine's
ass.



Tough soldier talk! snerk

Herring, of course, is the newsgroup expert on soldier ass.


I'm betting he's seen his share!

Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:

Smart assed question from one who wouldn't make a pimple on a Marine's
ass.


Tough soldier talk! snerk

Herring, of course, is the newsgroup expert on soldier ass.


I'm betting he's seen his share!


Up close, too. Real close. Kissing distance.