On Feb 28, 3:41Â*am, BAR wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 27, 5:05�pm, "Sam" wrote:

While I think it already is a free and competitive market, what changes
would you propose?- Hide quoted text -

The same measures that were taken against other vertically integrated
oligarchies in the past. Power, phone, water, etc.

[ Big Snip ]

You want prices controls and regulation.

Don't be so deliberately dense. Read instead of react. I'm sure you
*snipped* it before you read it.......after all you've got Limbaugh
and the rest of your trainers to tell you how liberals think, so why
bother?

Since you didn't bother to read before you reacted emotionally here,
I'll repeat. What I would like to see would be meaningful competition
at all level of the distribution process, an no more winks, nods, and
reach arounds by the three main bedfellows.


Why don't we limit profit to 1% on everything. One percent profit should
be enough shouldn't it?


I have no idea where you come up with some zany crap like that.
It has no relevance to anything I posted here.



Why do you believe in a free market when it comes to selling boats and
cars but not when it comes to selling oil.

Hello in there........ I am calling for the same kind of free market
thta *does* exist when it comes to selling boats and cars and
*doesn't* exist when it comes to selling oil. If you want the car
business to adopt the oil company model, you would need to start by
eliminating all of the independently owned new car dealerships across
the country and make them "factory outlets". The auto factories occupy
a similar space in the distribution chain that the refineries do, so
you would really need to have the auto factories bought up by big
steel producers, and you would need to eliminate the 1000,s of
subcontracting companies that
currently contribute to the construction of a car or truck. There's a
very active free market in the auto and boat industries, due in part
to the fact that new cars and new boats are always in competition with
used products as well as new cars and boats built by other
manufacturers.

New boat companies start up every year. Most don't last all that long,
but they start up nonetheless. When was the last time somebody started
a new oil company?



What I want to know is why is gasoline at the pump so cheap compared to
the cost of a bbl of crude? When oil was $50 a bbl we were paying $3 per
gallon of gas and now that oil is $100 a bbl we are still paying $3 per
gallon. Why?

Because there is no direct correlation between the price of refined
products and the price of crude oil. They only thing they have in
common is the same company is making money at every step of the
distribution process.

Can you spell "ENRON"?

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 28, 3:41 am, BAR wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 27, 5:05�pm, "Sam" wrote:
While I think it already is a free and competitive market, what changes
would you propose?- Hide quoted text -
The same measures that were taken against other vertically integrated
oligarchies in the past. Power, phone, water, etc.
[ Big Snip ]

You want prices controls and regulation.

Don't be so deliberately dense. Read instead of react. I'm sure you
*snipped* it before you read it.......after all you've got Limbaugh
and the rest of your trainers to tell you how liberals think, so why
bother?

Since you didn't bother to read before you reacted emotionally here,
I'll repeat. What I would like to see would be meaningful competition
at all level of the distribution process, an no more winks, nods, and
reach arounds by the three main bedfellows.

Why don't we limit profit to 1% on everything. One percent profit should
be enough shouldn't it?


I have no idea where you come up with some zany crap like that.
It has no relevance to anything I posted here.


Why do you believe in a free market when it comes to selling boats and
cars but not when it comes to selling oil.

Hello in there........ I am calling for the same kind of free market
thta *does* exist when it comes to selling boats and cars and
*doesn't* exist when it comes to selling oil. If you want the car
business to adopt the oil company model, you would need to start by
eliminating all of the independently owned new car dealerships across
the country and make them "factory outlets". The auto factories occupy
a similar space in the distribution chain that the refineries do, so
you would really need to have the auto factories bought up by big
steel producers, and you would need to eliminate the 1000,s of
subcontracting companies that
currently contribute to the construction of a car or truck. There's a
very active free market in the auto and boat industries, due in part
to the fact that new cars and new boats are always in competition with
used products as well as new cars and boats built by other
manufacturers.

New boat companies start up every year. Most don't last all that long,
but they start up nonetheless. When was the last time somebody started
a new oil company?


What I want to know is why is gasoline at the pump so cheap compared to
the cost of a bbl of crude? When oil was $50 a bbl we were paying $3 per
gallon of gas and now that oil is $100 a bbl we are still paying $3 per
gallon. Why?

Because there is no direct correlation between the price of refined
products and the price of crude oil. They only thing they have in
common is the same company is making money at every step of the
distribution process.

Can you spell "ENRON"?


Chuck,
If you really researched the oil industry, you would see that your
understanding of the industry and your understanding of the competition
that exist in the industry is way too simplistic and does not reflect
the real world in any shape or form. It reminds me of the simplistic
comments I have heard the few times I have listened to right or left
wing radio shows.

On Feb 28, 7:58Â*am, "Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is Here
wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 28, 3:41 am, BAR wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 27, 5:05�pm, "Sam" wrote:
While I think it already is a free and competitive market, what changes
would you propose?- Hide quoted text -
The same measures that were taken against other vertically integrated
oligarchies in the past. Power, phone, water, etc.
[ Big Snip ]

You want prices controls and regulation.

Don't be so deliberately dense. Read instead of react. I'm sure you
*snipped* it before you read it.......after all you've got Limbaugh
and the rest of your trainers to tell you how liberals think, so why
bother?

Since you didn't bother to read before you reacted emotionally here,
I'll repeat. What I would like to see would be meaningful competition
at all level of the distribution process, an no more winks, nods, and
reach arounds by the three main bedfellows.

Why don't we limit profit to 1% on everything. One percent profit should
be enough shouldn't it?

I have no idea where you come up with some zany crap like that.
It has no relevance to anything I posted here.

Why do you believe in a free market when it comes to selling boats and
cars but not when it comes to selling oil.

Hello in there........ I am calling for the same kind of free market
thta *does* exist when it comes to selling boats and cars and
*doesn't* exist when it comes to selling oil. If you want the car
business to adopt the oil company model, you would need to start by
eliminating all of the independently owned new car dealerships across
the country and make them "factory outlets". The auto factories occupy
a similar space in the distribution chain that the refineries do, so
you would really need to have the auto factories bought up by big
steel producers, and you would need to eliminate the 1000,s of
subcontracting companies that
currently contribute to the construction of a car or truck. There's a
very active free market in the auto and boat industries, due in part
to the fact that new cars and new boats are always in competition with
used products as well as new cars and boats built by other
manufacturers.

New boat companies start up every year. Most don't last all that long,
but they start up nonetheless. When was the last time somebody started
a new oil company?

What I want to know is why is gasoline at the pump so cheap compared to
the cost of a bbl of crude? When oil was $50 a bbl we were paying $3 per
gallon of gas and now that oil is $100 a bbl we are still paying $3 per
gallon. Why?

Because there is no direct correlation between the price of refined
products and the price of crude oil. They only thing they have in
common is the same company is making money at every step of the
distribution process.

Can you spell "ENRON"?

Chuck,
If you really researched the oil industry, you would see that your
understanding of the industry and your understanding of the competition
that exist in the industry is way too simplistic and does not reflect
the real world in any shape or form. Â*It reminds me of the simplistic
comments I have heard the few times I have listened to right or left
wing radio shows.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Whatever level of competition exists in the oil industry, it is
inadequate to create a truly competitive market. During the spring of
2007, refined products went up substantially while the cost of a bbl
of oil went down.
Not a single company elected to pass this savings in the cost of raw
material along to the final consumer; but in a truly competitive
market that is *exactly* what would have happened.

I believe that under all the smoke and mirrors employed to create the
illusion of a complex and competitive market you will find a very few
vertically integrated companies comprising an oligarchy.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:51:31 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Feb 28, 3:41*am, BAR wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 27, 5:05?pm, "Sam" wrote:

While I think it already is a free and competitive market, what changes
would you propose?- Hide quoted text -

The same measures that were taken against other vertically integrated
oligarchies in the past. Power, phone, water, etc.

[ Big Snip ]

You want prices controls and regulation.

Don't be so deliberately dense. Read instead of react. I'm sure you
*snipped* it before you read it.......after all you've got Limbaugh
and the rest of your trainers to tell you how liberals think, so why
bother?

Quit using the line reserved for me on other people.

I'm glad to see you're still listening to Limbaugh on a regular basis. What
did he have to say about the latest Obama/Hillary debate? It looked like
Russert was being very nice to Obama and not so nice to Hillary.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 28, 3:41 am, BAR wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 27, 5:05�pm, "Sam" wrote:
While I think it already is a free and competitive market, what changes
would you propose?- Hide quoted text -
The same measures that were taken against other vertically integrated
oligarchies in the past. Power, phone, water, etc.
[ Big Snip ]

You want prices controls and regulation.

Don't be so deliberately dense. Read instead of react. I'm sure you
*snipped* it before you read it.......after all you've got Limbaugh
and the rest of your trainers to tell you how liberals think, so why
bother?

I don't have time to listen to those guys. I have a real job.

Since you didn't bother to read before you reacted emotionally here,
I'll repeat. What I would like to see would be meaningful competition
at all level of the distribution process, an no more winks, nods, and
reach arounds by the three main bedfellows.

Start a company that does any or all of the following:
1) Drills for crude
2) Transports crude to refineries
3) Refines crude to gasoline
4) Transports gasoline to filling stations
5) Operate your own filling station

Rather than talking about it, get off your ass and make it happen,
otherwise STFU.

Why don't we limit profit to 1% on everything. One percent profit should
be enough shouldn't it?


I have no idea where you come up with some zany crap like that.
It has no relevance to anything I posted here.

You want artificial controls. Limiting profits is an artificial control.

Why do you believe in a free market when it comes to selling boats and
cars but not when it comes to selling oil.

Hello in there........ I am calling for the same kind of free market
thta *does* exist when it comes to selling boats and cars and
*doesn't* exist when it comes to selling oil. If you want the car
business to adopt the oil company model, you would need to start by
eliminating all of the independently owned new car dealerships across
the country and make them "factory outlets". The auto factories occupy
a similar space in the distribution chain that the refineries do, so
you would really need to have the auto factories bought up by big
steel producers, and you would need to eliminate the 1000,s of
subcontracting companies that
currently contribute to the construction of a car or truck. There's a
very active free market in the auto and boat industries, due in part
to the fact that new cars and new boats are always in competition with
used products as well as new cars and boats built by other
manufacturers.

See above where I strongly suggest that you stop talking and start working.

New boat companies start up every year. Most don't last all that long,
but they start up nonetheless. When was the last time somebody started
a new oil company?

Why don't they last that long?

If it was easy you would be doing it already? Right!

What I want to know is why is gasoline at the pump so cheap compared to
the cost of a bbl of crude? When oil was $50 a bbl we were paying $3 per
gallon of gas and now that oil is $100 a bbl we are still paying $3 per
gallon. Why?

Because there is no direct correlation between the price of refined
products and the price of crude oil. They only thing they have in
common is the same company is making money at every step of the
distribution process.

Can you spell "ENRON"?

Enron is gone, Key Lay is dead and the world is still turning.