On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:16:06 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:39:37 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

Email from my 84 year old aunt.

Yeah, right!

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp

I get that kind of urban legends from my 82 yr old mother all the time.
No matter how many times I tell her if a story comes to her via email,
it is not true, she keeps forwarding them to me.

Here's the thing that bothers me about the Internet.

Nothing in that Snopes article says that the test was false or some
kind of urban legend. Much was made about the relative value of the
test or if the tested information was relevant, useful or of any
value.

From the article:


"To pass this test, no knowledge of the arts is necessary (not even a
nodding familiarity with a few of the greatest works of English
literature)"

Such as? And what exactly would the great works of English literature
have to do with building and expanding the country?

"no demonstration of mathematical learning other than plain arithmetic
is required (forget algebra, geometry, or trigonometry),"

Plain arithmetic is the basis of all mathematics. If one can grasp
basic tenants of arithmetic, one can grasp all else.

"nothing beyond a familiarity with the highlights of American history
is needed (never mind the fundamentals of world history, as this exam
scarcely acknowledges that any country other than the USA even
exists),"

Yeah so? What's the point? Were these people planning on living
anywhere else?

"no questions about the history, structure, or function of the United
States government are asked (not even the standard "Name the three
branches of our federal government")"

I'd really put some money down on whether 90% of graduating high
school students could tell you what bicameral means - with the highest
percentage of them thinking it's some kind of clam.

"science is given a pass except for a few questions about geography
and the rudiments of human anatomy,"

Turn the author's argument around - why was that necessary in 1896?
Science as we know it was still in it's infancy.

"and no competence in any foreign language (living or dead) is
necessary. An exam for today's high school graduates that omitted even
one of these subjects would be loudly condemned by parents and
educators alike, subjects about which the Salina, Kansas, students of
1895 needed know nothing at all."

Specious argument.

The author concluded: "Do we really care these days whether our
educators the feminine's of hero, bachelor and ox?"

Yes and the answer is Heroine, Spinster and Cow.

My larger point is that somehow, because it's on Snopes, it's false.
No, it's not false - it's true. It would have been more important to
say that - yes, that is a true statement, but... and move on to the
relevance according to the author.

With respect to the test:

Fundamentals are important. While I suspect this isn't an 8th grade
test, I would suspect that it's a high school graduation test which
was common in those days. (Something that the educational system is
returning to, by the way.)

I could answer about 90% of the total test without reference my
weakest area being grammar.

And I'm an old fart with reading problems when I was younger.

Oh, I'm almost in rant territory.

Well, EEEXXXCCCCCUUUUUUSSSSEEEE MMMMMEEEEEEE!!!!

~~ mutter ~~

Sorry.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:16:06 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:39:37 -0800, "Calif Bill"

wrote:

Email from my 84 year old aunt.

Yeah, right!

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp

I get that kind of urban legends from my 82 yr old mother all the time.
No matter how many times I tell her if a story comes to her via email,
it is not true, she keeps forwarding them to me.

Here's the thing that bothers me about the Internet.

Nothing in that Snopes article says that the test was false or some
kind of urban legend. Much was made about the relative value of the
test or if the tested information was relevant, useful or of any
value.

From the article:


"To pass this test, no knowledge of the arts is necessary (not even a
nodding familiarity with a few of the greatest works of English
literature)"

Such as? And what exactly would the great works of English literature
have to do with building and expanding the country?

"no demonstration of mathematical learning other than plain arithmetic
is required (forget algebra, geometry, or trigonometry),"

Plain arithmetic is the basis of all mathematics. If one can grasp
basic tenants of arithmetic, one can grasp all else.

"nothing beyond a familiarity with the highlights of American history
is needed (never mind the fundamentals of world history, as this exam
scarcely acknowledges that any country other than the USA even
exists),"

Yeah so? What's the point? Were these people planning on living
anywhere else?

"no questions about the history, structure, or function of the United
States government are asked (not even the standard "Name the three
branches of our federal government")"

I'd really put some money down on whether 90% of graduating high
school students could tell you what bicameral means - with the highest
percentage of them thinking it's some kind of clam.

"science is given a pass except for a few questions about geography
and the rudiments of human anatomy,"

Turn the author's argument around - why was that necessary in 1896?
Science as we know it was still in it's infancy.

"and no competence in any foreign language (living or dead) is
necessary. An exam for today's high school graduates that omitted even
one of these subjects would be loudly condemned by parents and
educators alike, subjects about which the Salina, Kansas, students of
1895 needed know nothing at all."

Specious argument.

The author concluded: "Do we really care these days whether our
educators the feminine's of hero, bachelor and ox?"

Yes and the answer is Heroine, Spinster and Cow.

My larger point is that somehow, because it's on Snopes, it's false.
No, it's not false - it's true. It would have been more important to
say that - yes, that is a true statement, but... and move on to the
relevance according to the author.

With respect to the test:

Fundamentals are important. While I suspect this isn't an 8th grade
test, I would suspect that it's a high school graduation test which
was common in those days. (Something that the educational system is
returning to, by the way.)

I could answer about 90% of the total test without reference my
weakest area being grammar.

And I'm an old fart with reading problems when I was younger.

Oh, I'm almost in rant territory.

Well, EEEXXXCCCCCUUUUUUSSSSEEEE MMMMMEEEEEEE!!!!

~~ mutter ~~

Sorry.

No sorry about it. I did not go to the Snopes site as I am a sucker and
believed the part about it not being true. So I went to Snopes and lo and
behold, you are very correct in that they did not say the test was not true.
Only going on about what was tested. Along with Tom, I get ****ED at the
educational system these days. I went into a fast food restaurant a couple
of years ago and figured out I had a couple of pennies after the clerk rang
up the sale. Would round out the change to an even amount. Shut down the
line. The guy finally unlocked his brain, and said, to late to change the
amount. White kid about 19. Odd thing is I see the Hispanic kids seem to
be able to make change. Maybe they still got the basic math without
calculator in grammar school. The exit exam for High School in California
covers up to a 10th grade level. Huge amount of kids can not pass the exit
exam, so they take it multiple times and get tutoring on the test. Sad
commentary on the state of education in this country and my state. When you
get Jay Leno sending a person out to the local shopping mall and Burbank is
not downscale area, and you see the softball questions that can not be
answered. Money to the schools is not the answer.
Prime example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUP9Jm9SqvY

On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:41:05 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

The guy finally unlocked his brain, and said, to late to change the
amount. White kid about 19. Odd thing is I see the Hispanic kids seem to
be able to make change.

You have to wonder why it is that a Pakastani, Indian or Hispanic who
can barely speak English can make change and understand what you mean
with you say "I've got the .19¢" and give you back exact change, but
some white kid fresh out of high school looks at you like your stupid.

On Feb 5, 5:58*pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
I'd really put some money down on whether 90% of graduating high
school students could tell you what bicameral means - with the highest
percentage of them thinking it's some kind of clam.

No, they'd be wrong.
Everybody know's it's a picture taken via a camera with two lenses...