Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:26:12 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:33:35 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

You cannot just look at one year either from a positive or negative
aspect.

One of the more interesting things I became involved with was back
testing - I started doing this about ten years or so ago using 1
month, 6 month, 18 month, 36 month spans.

It's really an interesting way to determine the value of any long term
investment.

Now, I've got programs that will forward test, back test, sideways
test, upside down test... :)

I don't trade as much as invest long term. Every once in a while you
get interested in something or the other and invest in that. Solar
stocks recently have been a winner for me - funds and single
intestments. Probably will be handing those off to the kids.

I've mentioned this before, but I still have IBM stock from thirty
years ago. :)

What a lousy hold that has been. 8-)

Horrible - the return has been - horrible.

I'm so ashamed. :)

I've also been very lucky - as in REALLY lucky with my long term
investments. We dumped most of our portfolio, with exceptions, on
September 10th, 2001 and intended to reset investments on the 12th.

Whew... :)

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
Damn right. You can trade gold for goods and services. Try that in a
post-revolutionary future with a piece of paper.
I'd rather have a big mean nasty dog, a couple of sidearms and some
rifles and a few shotguns. And, about 40 to 50 thousands rounds of
ammo.


What are you going to do, force a plumber to work at gunpoint?
Go take the gold from some dufus with just a small glock.

Anyone hoarding gold in case of societal collapse will have something
heavier than a GLOCK pointing back at you.

Read "The Road". And where will you spend the gold?


Barter.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

Where the hell were you getting a 20% return?
You gotta have you finance guy putting you in the right funds.


I'll tell you, I have to give you guys credit for having the balls to let
a "finance" guy manage your money and/or investments for retirement.

Maybe I could have made more, maybe not, but I like using common sense
and doing it myself rather than rely on some person who makes a living
using your money. Nope. No way.

You have to know your own limitations and investing isn't one of my areas
of interest. I would rather go out and do stuff than sit around and figure
out where to invest my money. I am good at earning it but not investing
it. Besides I have a family member with a Series 7, working in the
personal finance area, who checks over everything.



Other than "just checking", you should avoid following any "buy this/sell
that" advice from that financial person in the family. It's just a bad idea.
It's inevitable that something goes bad eventually, and you don't want to be
looking at each other funny at family gatherings.

I used to work for one of the major brokerage firms. While we were studying
for our exams, we were also gathering names of tentative clients, and the
manager was reviewing them very closely. He told us to NEVER do business
with family members unless it involved products so safe that they were a
total snore. On October 19th, 1987, as he and the older brokers were
panicking & sweating, he stopped by my desk to say "Just got a call. You
passed your series 7, and if you thought I was wrong about doing business
with family, today should eliminate those questions."

When a family member gave us a chunk of money for our newborn son's college
fund, the manager suggested that he talk to my wife about what bad returns
could do to our dinner conversations. That was a good idea. She needed a
second voice to adjust her expectations. Fortunately, the worst I did while
managing his money was a couple of investments that were a little boring.
Any other family members I worked with were limited to stuff like AAA rated
insured munis, fed paper, or A+ or better corporate bonds.

The endless baked ziti and warm Genny beer still made family gatherings a
trying experience, but at least there were no financial arguments.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
hk wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:50:19 -0500, hk
wrote:

IBM is still in business?
They actually opened a couple bucks higher today. It is still
about
16-17 bucks off the 52 week high. I am still not sure what they do
these days
Except for two stocks, we got out of the stock market years ago and
don't really pay any attention to it, except to chuckle over its
vagaries and the belief anyone pays to its "integrity."

What a silly generalization.
Perhaps you believe in the "generally accepted accounting practices"
of listed companies. We don't.


OK. What investments do you use which have consistently stayed ahead
of inflation?


These days, commercial real estate for income and appreciation, and
some raw land options which we picked up and exercised in the early
1990s. Every couple of years we sell off a lot and at some point, we'll
probably sell the remaining lots to a respectable architect/developer.
We've done very well with the land speculation. :-)

We also bought gold in the low $400s. Not certificates, coins. And we
have some money invested in private businesses, a real speculation on
our part, but the bookkeepers are honest.

Your land speculation is just that speculation. I could take stock in a
publicly traded company and turn it into cash money tomorrow. You land
sale has to wait for a buyer and the subsequent deal to actually go
through.

Why would you buy gold coins? Are you digging a bomb shelter in your
backyard too?

Liquid assets, let me repeat that liquid assets.


For what type of money? Good luck answering this question. Hint: Trump


Trump was lucky. Sort of like the present mortgage meltdown. The
Government is going to bail the people who borrowed too much money. Trump
was able to borrow way over his head. The banks had to work with him to
save his ass. They could not call the loans. If they called the loans,
they had to write off enough money they would not meet capitalization
requirements by the Fed. And luckily for both the banks and Trump, the
economy came back and saved both their asses. Left Trump very rich, but
was more luck than smarts that he ended up rich.


The fact that he had those banking relationships is a perfect illustration
of why real estate is often a time bomb for small players who do NOT have
strong enough financial backing. But, lack of liquidity alone is not a good
reason to avoid an investment. And, some investors add a 2nd definition to
liquidity: "Can I sell without losing my shirt?" You can lose your shirt
selling AAA-rated insured muni bonds in certain situations. They'll sell
fast, which fits one definition of liquidity. But, it will hurt.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
hk wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:50:19 -0500, hk
wrote:

IBM is still in business?
They actually opened a couple bucks higher today. It is still
about
16-17 bucks off the 52 week high. I am still not sure what they do
these days
Except for two stocks, we got out of the stock market years ago and
don't really pay any attention to it, except to chuckle over its
vagaries and the belief anyone pays to its "integrity."
What a silly generalization.
Perhaps you believe in the "generally accepted accounting practices"
of listed companies. We don't.

OK. What investments do you use which have consistently stayed ahead
of inflation?

These days, commercial real estate for income and appreciation, and
some raw land options which we picked up and exercised in the early
1990s. Every couple of years we sell off a lot and at some point, we'll
probably sell the remaining lots to a respectable architect/developer.
We've done very well with the land speculation. :-)

We also bought gold in the low $400s. Not certificates, coins. And we
have some money invested in private businesses, a real speculation on
our part, but the bookkeepers are honest.
Your land speculation is just that speculation. I could take stock in a
publicly traded company and turn it into cash money tomorrow. You land
sale has to wait for a buyer and the subsequent deal to actually go
through.

Why would you buy gold coins? Are you digging a bomb shelter in your
backyard too?

Liquid assets, let me repeat that liquid assets.

Physical gold sucks as an asset for protection. Go with an ETF like GLD.
Sells for 1/10 of an ounce of gold a share. Very liquid, and gives you
the gold tracking.


Under a worse case scenario, the only thing you are going to be able to do
with an ETF is wipe your butt.

Do I think this country is going to come apart at the seams and devolve
into a violent revolution? You betcha. Maybe not in my lifetime, but the
devolution is a lot closer than I ever thought it will be. Real gold will
smooth the way of some of the survivors.


OK. The country melts down, you have gold coins, and you want to buy food
from a farmer who was lucky enough to have seeds. Who determines what the
gold is worth?

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
hk wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:50:19 -0500, hk
wrote:

IBM is still in business?
They actually opened a couple bucks higher today. It is still
about
16-17 bucks off the 52 week high. I am still not sure what they do
these days
Except for two stocks, we got out of the stock market years ago and
don't really pay any attention to it, except to chuckle over its
vagaries and the belief anyone pays to its "integrity."
What a silly generalization.
Perhaps you believe in the "generally accepted accounting practices"
of listed companies. We don't.
OK. What investments do you use which have consistently stayed ahead
of inflation?

These days, commercial real estate for income and appreciation, and
some raw land options which we picked up and exercised in the early
1990s. Every couple of years we sell off a lot and at some point, we'll
probably sell the remaining lots to a respectable architect/developer.
We've done very well with the land speculation. :-)

We also bought gold in the low $400s. Not certificates, coins. And we
have some money invested in private businesses, a real speculation on
our part, but the bookkeepers are honest.
Your land speculation is just that speculation. I could take stock in a
publicly traded company and turn it into cash money tomorrow. You land
sale has to wait for a buyer and the subsequent deal to actually go
through.

Why would you buy gold coins? Are you digging a bomb shelter in your
backyard too?

Liquid assets, let me repeat that liquid assets.
Physical gold sucks as an asset for protection. Go with an ETF like GLD.
Sells for 1/10 of an ounce of gold a share. Very liquid, and gives you
the gold tracking.

Under a worse case scenario, the only thing you are going to be able to do
with an ETF is wipe your butt.

Do I think this country is going to come apart at the seams and devolve
into a violent revolution? You betcha. Maybe not in my lifetime, but the
devolution is a lot closer than I ever thought it will be. Real gold will
smooth the way of some of the survivors.


OK. The country melts down, you have gold coins, and you want to buy food
from a farmer who was lucky enough to have seeds. Who determines what the
gold is worth?




If there is no acceptable government issued currency, we're back to
barter. You want to barter slips of paper or chunks of gold?

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
hk wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:50:19 -0500, hk
wrote:

IBM is still in business?
They actually opened a couple bucks higher today. It is still
about
16-17 bucks off the 52 week high. I am still not sure what they
do
these days
Except for two stocks, we got out of the stock market years ago
and don't really pay any attention to it, except to chuckle over
its vagaries and the belief anyone pays to its "integrity."
What a silly generalization.
Perhaps you believe in the "generally accepted accounting
practices" of listed companies. We don't.
OK. What investments do you use which have consistently stayed ahead
of inflation?

These days, commercial real estate for income and appreciation, and
some raw land options which we picked up and exercised in the early
1990s. Every couple of years we sell off a lot and at some point,
we'll probably sell the remaining lots to a respectable
architect/developer. We've done very well with the land speculation.
:-)

We also bought gold in the low $400s. Not certificates, coins. And we
have some money invested in private businesses, a real speculation on
our part, but the bookkeepers are honest.
Your land speculation is just that speculation. I could take stock in
a publicly traded company and turn it into cash money tomorrow. You
land sale has to wait for a buyer and the subsequent deal to actually
go through.

Why would you buy gold coins? Are you digging a bomb shelter in your
backyard too?

Liquid assets, let me repeat that liquid assets.
Physical gold sucks as an asset for protection. Go with an ETF like
GLD. Sells for 1/10 of an ounce of gold a share. Very liquid, and
gives you the gold tracking.

Under a worse case scenario, the only thing you are going to be able to
do with an ETF is wipe your butt.

Do I think this country is going to come apart at the seams and devolve
into a violent revolution? You betcha. Maybe not in my lifetime, but the
devolution is a lot closer than I ever thought it will be. Real gold
will smooth the way of some of the survivors.


OK. The country melts down, you have gold coins, and you want to buy food
from a farmer who was lucky enough to have seeds. Who determines what the
gold is worth?


If there is no acceptable government issued currency, we're back to
barter. You want to barter slips of paper or chunks of gold?


Since neither currency would have any firm value at that time, I'd choose
the lighter version, and save my back muscles for more important things,
like food and ammo.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
hk wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:50:19 -0500, hk
wrote:

IBM is still in business?
They actually opened a couple bucks higher today. It is still
about
16-17 bucks off the 52 week high. I am still not sure what they
do
these days
Except for two stocks, we got out of the stock market years ago
and don't really pay any attention to it, except to chuckle over
its vagaries and the belief anyone pays to its "integrity."
What a silly generalization.
Perhaps you believe in the "generally accepted accounting
practices" of listed companies. We don't.
OK. What investments do you use which have consistently stayed ahead
of inflation?

These days, commercial real estate for income and appreciation, and
some raw land options which we picked up and exercised in the early
1990s. Every couple of years we sell off a lot and at some point,
we'll probably sell the remaining lots to a respectable
architect/developer. We've done very well with the land speculation.
:-)

We also bought gold in the low $400s. Not certificates, coins. And we
have some money invested in private businesses, a real speculation on
our part, but the bookkeepers are honest.
Your land speculation is just that speculation. I could take stock in
a publicly traded company and turn it into cash money tomorrow. You
land sale has to wait for a buyer and the subsequent deal to actually
go through.

Why would you buy gold coins? Are you digging a bomb shelter in your
backyard too?

Liquid assets, let me repeat that liquid assets.
Physical gold sucks as an asset for protection. Go with an ETF like
GLD. Sells for 1/10 of an ounce of gold a share. Very liquid, and
gives you the gold tracking.
Under a worse case scenario, the only thing you are going to be able to
do with an ETF is wipe your butt.

Do I think this country is going to come apart at the seams and devolve
into a violent revolution? You betcha. Maybe not in my lifetime, but the
devolution is a lot closer than I ever thought it will be. Real gold
will smooth the way of some of the survivors.

OK. The country melts down, you have gold coins, and you want to buy food
from a farmer who was lucky enough to have seeds. Who determines what the
gold is worth?

If there is no acceptable government issued currency, we're back to
barter. You want to barter slips of paper or chunks of gold?


Since neither currency would have any firm value at that time, I'd choose
the lighter version, and save my back muscles for more important things,
like food and ammo.




Gold always has and has had a pretty high intrinsic value.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:43:32 -0500, hk wrote:


If there is no acceptable government issued currency, we're back to
barter. You want to barter slips of paper or chunks of gold?

Pizza.

Pizza will become the defacto currency.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:43:32 -0500, hk wrote:

If there is no acceptable government issued currency, we're back to
barter. You want to barter slips of paper or chunks of gold?

Pizza.

Pizza will become the defacto currency.



Plain or mozz?

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:26:12 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:33:35 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

You cannot just look at one year either from a positive or negative
aspect.
One of the more interesting things I became involved with was back
testing - I started doing this about ten years or so ago using 1
month, 6 month, 18 month, 36 month spans.

It's really an interesting way to determine the value of any long term
investment.

Now, I've got programs that will forward test, back test, sideways
test, upside down test... :)

I don't trade as much as invest long term. Every once in a while you
get interested in something or the other and invest in that. Solar
stocks recently have been a winner for me - funds and single
intestments. Probably will be handing those off to the kids.

I've mentioned this before, but I still have IBM stock from thirty
years ago. :)
What a lousy hold that has been. 8-)

Horrible - the return has been - horrible.

I'm so ashamed. :)

I've also been very lucky - as in REALLY lucky with my long term
investments. We dumped most of our portfolio, with exceptions, on
September 10th, 2001 and intended to reset investments on the 12th.

Whew... :)

I think you might be getting a visit from the feds this morning.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:14:25 -0500, hk wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:43:32 -0500, hk wrote:

If there is no acceptable government issued currency, we're back to
barter. You want to barter slips of paper or chunks of gold?

Pizza.

Pizza will become the defacto currency.

Plain or mozz?

Plain will the .01¢, Mushroom will be .05¢, Onion will be .10¢,
Mushroon/onion will be .25¢, Pepperoni will be .50¢ and
mushroom/onion/pepperoni will be $1.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:43:32 -0500, hk wrote:

If there is no acceptable government issued currency, we're back to
barter. You want to barter slips of paper or chunks of gold?

Pizza.

Pizza will become the defacto currency.

Actually in the complete collapse of society, pizza would have
substantially higher value than gold.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:43:32 -0500, hk wrote:


If there is no acceptable government issued currency, we're back to
barter. You want to barter slips of paper or chunks of gold?

Pizza.

Pizza will become the defacto currency.


That makes a lot more sense than gold.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:43:32 -0500, hk wrote:

If there is no acceptable government issued currency, we're back to
barter. You want to barter slips of paper or chunks of gold?
Pizza.

Pizza will become the defacto currency.


That makes a lot more sense than gold.


If you pound gold very thin, and saute it, and then serve it with a
brown gravy it still taste like ****.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:29:18 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:26:12 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:33:35 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

You cannot just look at one year either from a positive or negative
aspect.
One of the more interesting things I became involved with was back
testing - I started doing this about ten years or so ago using 1
month, 6 month, 18 month, 36 month spans.

It's really an interesting way to determine the value of any long term
investment.

Now, I've got programs that will forward test, back test, sideways
test, upside down test... :)

I don't trade as much as invest long term. Every once in a while you
get interested in something or the other and invest in that. Solar
stocks recently have been a winner for me - funds and single
intestments. Probably will be handing those off to the kids.

I've mentioned this before, but I still have IBM stock from thirty
years ago. :)
What a lousy hold that has been. 8-)

Horrible - the return has been - horrible.

I'm so ashamed. :)

I've also been very lucky - as in REALLY lucky with my long term
investments. We dumped most of our portfolio, with exceptions, on
September 10th, 2001 and intended to reset investments on the 12th.

Whew... :)

I think you might be getting a visit from the feds this morning.

We did actually in November, 2001. Very nice young lady just asked a
few questions, did a quicky background check and never heard from them
again becausse we had went back into the market at the end of
September in blind trusts and bought some real estate for renovation
and eventual sale.

If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten involved in
renovating properties, holding them as rentals and sold on a six year
cycle when I first retired.

It's an amazing money maker.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On Jan 23, 8:41*am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:29:18 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:





Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:26:12 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:33:35 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

You cannot just look at one year either from a positive or negative
aspect.
One of the more interesting things I became involved with was back
testing - I started doing this about ten years or so ago using 1
month, 6 month, 18 month, 36 month spans.

It's really an interesting way to determine the value of any long term
investment.

Now, I've got programs that will forward test, back test, sideways
test, upside down test... *:)

I don't trade as much as invest long term. *Every once in a while you
get interested in something or the other and invest in that. *Solar
stocks recently have been a winner for me - funds and single
intestments. *Probably will be handing those off to the kids.

I've mentioned this before, but I still have IBM stock from thirty
years ago. *:)
What a lousy hold that has been. 8-)

Horrible - the return has been - horrible.

I'm so ashamed. *:)

I've also been very lucky - as in REALLY lucky with my long term
investments. *We dumped most of our portfolio, with exceptions, on
September 10th, 2001 and intended to reset investments on the 12th.

Whew... *:)

I think you might be getting a visit from the feds this morning.

We did actually in November, 2001. *Very nice young lady just asked a
few questions, did a quicky background check and never heard from them
again becausse we had went back into the market at the end of
September in blind trusts and bought some real estate for renovation
and eventual sale.

If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten involved in
renovating properties, holding them as rentals and sold on a six year
cycle when I first retired.

It's an amazing money maker.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, it sure is, at least in these parts.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On Jan 22, 8:49*pm, "JimH" wrote:
"Salmon Bait" wrote in message

...





On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:04:57 -0500, "JimH" wrote:

"Eisboch" wrote in message
om...

"JimH" wrote in message
. ..

I've got a nice 6.25% APR that matures in 2011.

That's something to roll on the floor for!
--
John H

Wrong again. * In the long run that is a very poor ROI.

All depends on your stage in life and what you are trying to accomplish.
There's a difference between being young trying to gain wealth and being
older, trying to enjoy what you have.

Eisboch

Hey, I am there. *But even so I would not put money into CD's, especially
if
I were investing money for my grandchildren.

We're all glad to hear you've no money in CD's. Your financial acumen has
impressed us all.
--
Red Herring

CD's? * ROTF!

BTW: Is Reggie giving you some tips on changing your handles?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, JiimH makes 20% on his investments. He said so! Right after he
astoundedly read that someone else said that. Hell, he even called him
a moron for suggesting that he made 20%, before he turned around and
said HE did.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten involved in
renovating properties, holding them as rentals and sold on a six year
cycle when I first retired.

It's an amazing money maker.

One of the best "investments" we've made is holding the mortgage on a house
we bought a few years back then sold it to a young, but very responsible
couple who were looking for their first house purchase. They didn't have a
credit track record sufficient to qualify for a mortgage loan from a bank at
the time, but we knew them well and trusted their commitment to make the
monthly payments. It's been over five years now and they have never been
even a day late with the monthly payments.

Works out good for both parties. They get to build equity in a house and we
make the interest that a bank would normally get (plus the difference
between what we paid for the house and what we sold it to them for). We
wrote the agreement such that they can elect to re-mortgage at any time with
a bank (outstanding principle paid to us), or we can "sell" the mortgage to
a commercial lender at any time.

Eisboch

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

hk wrote:

And we
have some money invested in private businesses, a real speculation on
our part, but the bookkeepers are honest.

Are these businesses incorporated?

-- Charlie

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

hk wrote:

Anyone hoarding gold in case of societal collapse will have something
heavier than a GLOCK pointing back at you.

Yep, "Charity Harry" at his best.

'I've got mine, screw you.'

-- Charlie

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On 23 Jan 2008 04:12:40 GMT, "John Q. Public" wrote:

In message , Vic Smith is
alleged to have said:

On 22 Jan 2008 22:33:36 GMT, "John Q. Public" wrote:

In message , Vic Smith
is alleged to have said:

FDIC is not a panacea for investing or any sort of risk/reward
arbitrage. Its looks good, but it's only so much per depositor - for
any real money, you'd have to have seperate accounts at seperate
banks which can be a nightmare - in particular if you don't actively
manage the accounts.

And it's only good for $100K per.

No. For IRA's it's 250k.
http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits...standings.html

If your bank is a part of FHLBS, it's zero.

http://www.fdic.gov/about/learn/advi..._advances.html

The FHLBs have a "super lien" when institutions fail. To protect their
position they have a claim on any of the additional eligible collateral
in the failed bank. In addition, the FDIC has a regulation that
reaffirms the FHLBs priority and the FHLBs can demand prepayment of
advances when institutions fail.

You're misunderstanding the roles and purposes of the FDIC and FHLB's.
Suffice it to say you're wrong.

OK Dr. Bernanke, whyza donna choo 'splain it fo' us ignrnt masses?

Ain't no ignorant masses. You're the only one who said the above.
To keep it simple, just read this
http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits...its/index.html
The first para states:
"If your insured bank fails, FDIC insurance will cover your deposits,
dollar for dollar, including principal and any accrued interest, up to
the insurance limit."
There are no gotchas, unless the gov itself fails.

I won't discuss FHLBS except to say it's a gov chartered org designed
to move money around to lenders who need it to finance loans.
This stuff is boring as hell, and the main reason I retired early to
get away from accountants. I'm far from an expert on it, but do read
pretty well.
What set you astray was seeing "super lien" but not seeing "additional
eligible collateral in the failed bank" in your quote above.
And it seems you don't know that the FDIC collects insurance premiums
from banks and has funds to pay claims.
The FDIC pays insured depositors to the insurance limit with FDIC
funds, then they can squabble with the FHLB over who gets the
"additional eligible collateral in the failed bank."
I don't know why you chose your false interpretation.
But it sounds like you're trying to scare old people.
Didn't work with me!
Just gave me something to do instead of cleaning the garage!
NA-NA-NA-NA-NANA

--Vic

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

"hk" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:58:00 -0400, "Don White"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
snip...
Rudy is just Hillary in a dress, I doubt he makes it past
Florida.

Say what? Rudy wears dresses???
You wacky 'mericans.........

You haven't seen those tapes? Rudy has showed up at least twice in
drag, maybe more.
As Eric Idle says "Once a philosopher, twice a pervert"


I'm no fan of Rudy, but better a pervert in the white house than the
mindless doof in there now.


Some idiots latched onto this situation and tried to make something out of
it until they realized the backlash would be troublesome:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...11/ai_78265968

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:16:09 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:33:47 -0500, Salmon Bait
wrote:

FDIC is not a panacea for investing or any sort of risk/reward
arbitrage. Its looks good, but it's only so much per depositor - for
any real money, you'd have to have seperate accounts at seperate banks
which can be a nightmare - in particular if you don't actively manage
the accounts.

And it's only good for $100K per.

Depending on the way they're set up, it's possible to have multiple CDs
totally several hundred thousand in the same institution, all insured.
--
John H

Actually I prefer having m,oney spread out across several banks, If
nothing else, it is easier to "fire" one that isn't treating you right
if you have another bank you can swap into.

I'm down to two. It makes record keeping much easier.
--
Red Herring

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:09:02 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .


If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten involved in
renovating properties, holding them as rentals and sold on a six year
cycle when I first retired.

It's an amazing money maker.

One of the best "investments" we've made is holding the mortgage on a house
we bought a few years back then sold it to a young, but very responsible
couple who were looking for their first house purchase. They didn't have a
credit track record sufficient to qualify for a mortgage loan from a bank at
the time, but we knew them well and trusted their commitment to make the
monthly payments. It's been over five years now and they have never been
even a day late with the monthly payments.

Works out good for both parties. They get to build equity in a house and we
make the interest that a bank would normally get (plus the difference
between what we paid for the house and what we sold it to them for). We
wrote the agreement such that they can elect to re-mortgage at any time with
a bank (outstanding principle paid to us), or we can "sell" the mortgage to
a commercial lender at any time.

The last time we talked about this, I looked into it, convinced Mrs.
Wave because we had a similar situation with one of our tenants.

It's been six months and it's working out just fine. Frankly, I was
surprised, but there's really no risk (other than being a bank that
is), they had a good deposit and we're getting 1 1/2 payments every
month - sometimes twice a month.

They are really serious about paying it down quickly so they can
refinance in a couple of years with some built in equity.

Good for them.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:00 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:34:38 -0500, hk wrote:

Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.


You should own a bag or two of silver coins if you are looking for
hard money. It is hard to make change for a Krugerrand when you are
buying groceries

While gold and silver can be a valuable hedge against inflation or a
server recession and/or depression, it would have no value if there was
a complete breakdown in government and society. Barter for real goods
and services would be the new coin. Gold only has value if people
believe it has value, the same as with our paper money.

Whoa. You're saying my VISA card won't work. Even the platinum?
Oh ****.

--Vic

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:00 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:34:38 -0500, hk wrote:

Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.

You should own a bag or two of silver coins if you are looking for
hard money. It is hard to make change for a Krugerrand when you are
buying groceries
While gold and silver can be a valuable hedge against inflation or a
server recession and/or depression, it would have no value if there was
a complete breakdown in government and society. Barter for real goods
and services would be the new coin. Gold only has value if people
believe it has value, the same as with our paper money.

Whoa. You're saying my VISA card won't work. Even the platinum?
Oh ****.

--Vic

In the complete breakdown of goverment and society, your Gold and
Platinum Visa cards would still work, they rest of them would be
useless. ;)

Try to use a pressure cooker, it will help to tenderize them.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:00 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:34:38 -0500, hk wrote:

Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.

You should own a bag or two of silver coins if you are looking for
hard money. It is hard to make change for a Krugerrand when you are
buying groceries
While gold and silver can be a valuable hedge against inflation or a
server recession and/or depression, it would have no value if there was
a complete breakdown in government and society. Barter for real goods
and services would be the new coin. Gold only has value if people
believe it has value, the same as with our paper money.

Whoa. You're saying my VISA card won't work. Even the platinum?
Oh ****.

--Vic


Gold has been highly valued for thousands of years. If there is a
general collapse, it will be something easily traded for valuable goods
and services.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

"hk" wrote in message
...
Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:00 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:34:38 -0500, hk wrote:

Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.

You should own a bag or two of silver coins if you are looking for
hard money. It is hard to make change for a Krugerrand when you are
buying groceries
While gold and silver can be a valuable hedge against inflation or a
server recession and/or depression, it would have no value if there was
a complete breakdown in government and society. Barter for real goods
and services would be the new coin. Gold only has value if people
believe it has value, the same as with our paper money.

Whoa. You're saying my VISA card won't work. Even the platinum?
Oh ****.

--Vic


Gold has been highly valued for thousands of years. If there is a general
collapse, it will be something easily traded for valuable goods and
services.


What's the smallest denomination you can buy these days?

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:09:02 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..


If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten involved in
renovating properties, holding them as rentals and sold on a six year
cycle when I first retired.

It's an amazing money maker.

One of the best "investments" we've made is holding the mortgage on a
house
we bought a few years back then sold it to a young, but very responsible
couple who were looking for their first house purchase. They didn't have
a
credit track record sufficient to qualify for a mortgage loan from a bank
at
the time, but we knew them well and trusted their commitment to make the
monthly payments. It's been over five years now and they have never been
even a day late with the monthly payments.

Works out good for both parties. They get to build equity in a house and
we
make the interest that a bank would normally get (plus the difference
between what we paid for the house and what we sold it to them for). We
wrote the agreement such that they can elect to re-mortgage at any time
with
a bank (outstanding principle paid to us), or we can "sell" the mortgage
to
a commercial lender at any time.

The last time we talked about this, I looked into it, convinced Mrs.
Wave because we had a similar situation with one of our tenants.

It's been six months and it's working out just fine. Frankly, I was
surprised, but there's really no risk (other than being a bank that
is), they had a good deposit and we're getting 1 1/2 payments every
month - sometimes twice a month.

They are really serious about paying it down quickly so they can
refinance in a couple of years with some built in equity.

Good for them.


Yup. And it's good for you. Sorry for the repeat, but sometimes I forget
who I told what.

Eisboch

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:54:40 -0500, hk wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:00 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:34:38 -0500, hk wrote:

Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.

You should own a bag or two of silver coins if you are looking for
hard money. It is hard to make change for a Krugerrand when you are
buying groceries
While gold and silver can be a valuable hedge against inflation or a
server recession and/or depression, it would have no value if there was
a complete breakdown in government and society. Barter for real goods
and services would be the new coin. Gold only has value if people
believe it has value, the same as with our paper money.

Whoa. You're saying my VISA card won't work. Even the platinum?
Oh ****.

--Vic


Gold has been highly valued for thousands of years. If there is a
general collapse, it will be something easily traded for valuable goods
and services.

What are you, a survivalist?
Hey, I'm not going to do it. You don't take my VISA, you can jump in
the lake. If things get where you're talking about, I'll team up with
the neighbors, form a tribe, build a fire and roast some marshmallows.
Won't need gold. Just marshmallows. And maybe some brats.

--Vic

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

hk wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:00 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:34:38 -0500, hk wrote:

Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.

You should own a bag or two of silver coins if you are looking for
hard money. It is hard to make change for a Krugerrand when you are
buying groceries
While gold and silver can be a valuable hedge against inflation or a
server recession and/or depression, it would have no value if there
was a complete breakdown in government and society. Barter for real
goods and services would be the new coin. Gold only has value if
people believe it has value, the same as with our paper money.

Whoa. You're saying my VISA card won't work. Even the platinum?
Oh ****.

--Vic


Gold has been highly valued for thousands of years. If there is a
general collapse, it will be something easily traded for valuable goods
and services.

Guess again, according to the Economist Robert Carrol, PHD, you are wrong.
"If people were stranded in some remote location without food, water,
and shelter, a mountain of gold would serve no more purpose than so much
sand. It would have no price. Gold has no intrinsic value."

Anyone with any economic background would see the fallacy of your
arguement immediately. I am using Robert Carrols quote to verify my
position.

http://landru.i-link-2.net/monques/goldx2.html

A pseudo-legal argument is sometimes advanced by advocates of gold money
that a debt cannot be paid with another debt. This is semantic
deception. A debt can be paid with anything that is acceptable to the
payee. In addition, as long as debt in the form of deposit entries in
bank accounts or Federal Reserve Notes can be exchanged for real goods
and services, the payee is just as well off as if he had received little
lumps of metal. Further, the multi-trillion dollar world economy runs
almost exclusively on exchange of debt-money which only consists of
numbers in deposit accounts at banks.

A common argument for gold money that accompanies the pseudo-legal
sophistry is that gold has "intrinsic value," another semantic
deception. Gold has interesting intrinsic properties such as chemical
stability and excellent electrical conductivity, but "intrinsic value"
is a semantic error if not outright doublespeak. Value(1) is a
subjective judgment and cannot be rationally thought of as intrinsic.
Subjectivity is exclusively a product of human minds. "Intrinsic value"
is a deceptive euphemism for price.

If people were stranded in some remote location without food, water, and
shelter, a mountain of gold would serve no more purpose than so much
sand. It would have no price. Gold has no intrinsic value. It merely has
a price which is the result of complex factors associated with its
subjective price value compared to other commodities. Industrial
usefulness of gold as well as human subjectivity that desires gold for
personal adornment, etc., does assure that gold will fetch a price in a
modern market. But what price?

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:54:40 -0500, hk wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:00 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:34:38 -0500, hk wrote:

Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.
You should own a bag or two of silver coins if you are looking for
hard money. It is hard to make change for a Krugerrand when you are
buying groceries
While gold and silver can be a valuable hedge against inflation or a
server recession and/or depression, it would have no value if there was
a complete breakdown in government and society. Barter for real goods
and services would be the new coin. Gold only has value if people
believe it has value, the same as with our paper money.

Whoa. You're saying my VISA card won't work. Even the platinum?
Oh ****.

--Vic

Gold has been highly valued for thousands of years. If there is a
general collapse, it will be something easily traded for valuable goods
and services.

What are you, a survivalist?
Hey, I'm not going to do it. You don't take my VISA, you can jump in
the lake. If things get where you're talking about, I'll team up with
the neighbors, form a tribe, build a fire and roast some marshmallows.
Won't need gold. Just marshmallows. And maybe some brats.

--Vic

If you are only eatting Marshmellows, you may need some Ex-Lax, so make
sure you bring enough gold to trade for Ex-Lax

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:00 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:34:38 -0500, hk wrote:

Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.
You should own a bag or two of silver coins if you are looking for
hard money. It is hard to make change for a Krugerrand when you are
buying groceries
While gold and silver can be a valuable hedge against inflation or a
server recession and/or depression, it would have no value if there was
a complete breakdown in government and society. Barter for real goods
and services would be the new coin. Gold only has value if people
believe it has value, the same as with our paper money.

Whoa. You're saying my VISA card won't work. Even the platinum?
Oh ****.

--Vic

Gold has been highly valued for thousands of years. If there is a general
collapse, it will be something easily traded for valuable goods and
services.


What's the smallest denomination you can buy these days?



I have no idea. I just buy Krugerrands and Canadian Maple Leafs in the
one troy ounce of gold size, but I think you can buy Krugerrands in
1/10th ounce and other sizes. The Maple Leafs are "purer," if you will.
Both are recognized and accepted anywhere. The face value is not really
relevant, just the weight in troy ounces. I started "collecting" them in
1992, when they became "legal" again.

Try www.monex.com if you want to learn a bit about gold, silver and
other "valuable" metal coins.

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:54:40 -0500, hk wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:00 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:34:38 -0500, hk wrote:

Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.
You should own a bag or two of silver coins if you are looking for
hard money. It is hard to make change for a Krugerrand when you are
buying groceries
While gold and silver can be a valuable hedge against inflation or a
server recession and/or depression, it would have no value if there was
a complete breakdown in government and society. Barter for real goods
and services would be the new coin. Gold only has value if people
believe it has value, the same as with our paper money.

Whoa. You're saying my VISA card won't work. Even the platinum?
Oh ****.

--Vic

Gold has been highly valued for thousands of years. If there is a
general collapse, it will be something easily traded for valuable goods
and services.

What are you, a survivalist?
Hey, I'm not going to do it. You don't take my VISA, you can jump in
the lake. If things get where you're talking about, I'll team up with
the neighbors, form a tribe, build a fire and roast some marshmallows.
Won't need gold. Just marshmallows. And maybe some brats.

--Vic


No, I'm not a survivalist. I started buying Krugerrands about 15 years
ago as a "hedge" and I simply buy some more from time to time. While I
do expect this country to collapse into class warfare, I don't believe
it will happen in my lifetime, though I think the time is getting closer
as the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" widens.

I'm sure my heirs will enjoy inheriting my Krugerrands and Canadian
Maple Leaf gold coins. What they do with them is...up to them.

I keep one of each in the house. The rest of kept...elsewhere. :-)

Will losses at Bank of America...
 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:12:16 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:54:40 -0500, hk wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:00 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
"Reggie is Here wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:34:38 -0500, hk wrote:

Gold has a bit of history as a valuable item. Beads, too. Paper?
No thanks.
You should own a bag or two of silver coins if you are looking for
hard money. It is hard to make change for a Krugerrand when you are
buying groceries
While gold and silver can be a valuable hedge against inflation or a
server recession and/or depression, it would have no value if there was
a complete breakdown in government and society. Barter for real goods
and services would be the new coin. Gold only has value if people
believe it has value, the same as with our paper money.

Whoa. You're saying my VISA card won't work. Even the platinum?
Oh ****.

--Vic

Gold has been highly valued for thousands of years. If there is a
general collapse, it will be something easily traded for valuable goods
and services.

What are you, a survivalist?
Hey, I'm not going to do it. You don't take my VISA, you can jump in
the lake. If things get where you're talking about, I'll team up with
the neighbors, form a tribe, build a fire and roast some marshmallows.
Won't need gold. Just marshmallows. And maybe some brats.

--Vic

If you are only eatting Marshmellows, you may need some Ex-Lax, so make
sure you bring enough gold to trade for Ex-Lax

That's why I added brats. But I'll just trade some marshmallows to
get the brats. Don't need gold. Unless I run out of marshmallows.

--Vic