On Jan 7, 2:44*pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:19:03 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Jan 7, 11:32*am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 05:26:58 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Jan 7, 6:20*am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 23:15:07 -0800, -rick- wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/27zy8v

"Evidence includes increases in global average air and ocean
temperatures,"

Got about as far as that and gave up.

Ain't no such thing as average global average air and ocean
temperatures.

Sure there is.

Prove it.

If you don't think someone can take data sets and provide an "average"
you certainly can't be shown much, Tom.

I'll ask you again - prove it.

Hint 1: *infinite variables.

There's your mistake, they're not infinite variables. You make the
data set, therefore it's finite.

Hint 2: It's 25 degrees in Fairbanks and 25 degrees at McMurdo -
what's the average?

25 degrees, if they are the same units.

Hint 3: You can only develop an accurate data set by averaging
discrete temperatures every square mile of the Earth. *That would be
approximately 197,000,000 data reporting instruments.

What would make you think that you can only develop an accurate data
set by averaging temps at every square mile? Yes, the more data the
more accuracy, but you can still develop a decent average with less
that 197,000,000 points. Example: Two kids have two cents each. What
is the average? That only used two finite sets.

Hint 4: Account for data variations due to weather, time (more than 50
years), natural diaster and incidents.

An average is an average.

Hint 5: What method of averaging would you use? (Sub Hint: There are
as many variations of averaging as there are number sets.)

Simple, meaning no moving average, or smoothing techniques.

Hint 6: What is the average phone number nationally?

Not relevant.

Get back to me when you can.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I did.

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:13:17 -0800 (PST), wrote:
snipped

Loogy, you said it all right below:

An average is an average.

We all agree with that statement. The question revolves about the title you
give your average. Apparently that's a point you're not grasping well.

If I take the average of the noon temperature in Seattle (50F)and the 3:00
PM temperature in Washington, DC (64F}, I can then say the average of the
two temperatures at the same time was 57F. If I wanted to be bold, I could
say that the average temperature across the continental US was 57F.

Hopefully, we can both see the stupidity of that 'boldness'.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Jan 8, 9:54*am, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:13:17 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snipped

Loogy, you said it all right below:

An average is an average.

We all agree with that statement. The question revolves about the title you
give your average. Apparently that's a point you're not grasping well.

If I take the average of the noon temperature in Seattle (50F)and the 3:00
PM temperature in Washington, DC (64F}, I can then say the average of the
two temperatures at the same time was 57F. If I wanted to be bold, I could
say that the average temperature across the continental US was 57F.

Hopefully, we can both see the stupidity of that 'boldness'.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

It is what it is. An average. Given enough data sets it gets quite
accurate. There are a lot of things in engineering that were derived
by nothing more than averaging. Case in point. We know that a given
shape of steel, let's say a wide flange shape, with a certain value
for Bf, and a certain value for d and a certain value for k and a
certain value for Tw will fail with a point load of X. How do we know
this? By making them fail. Does every piece of a certain size wide
flange shape break at exactly the same load? Not by a long shot. Want
to guess how we came up with X? Yep, averaging.

On Jan 8, 12:11*am, -rick- wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Hint 3: You can only develop an accurate data set by averaging
discrete temperatures every square mile of the Earth. *That would be
approximately 197,000,000 data reporting instruments.

Why not require every square meter or every thousand square
miles? *Why not every cubic mile?... seriously.

Exactly!

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:46:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 8, 9:54*am, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:13:17 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snipped

Loogy, you said it all right below:

An average is an average.

We all agree with that statement. The question revolves about the title you
give your average. Apparently that's a point you're not grasping well.

If I take the average of the noon temperature in Seattle (50F)and the 3:00
PM temperature in Washington, DC (64F}, I can then say the average of the
two temperatures at the same time was 57F. If I wanted to be bold, I could
say that the average temperature across the continental US was 57F.

Hopefully, we can both see the stupidity of that 'boldness'.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

It is what it is. An average. Given enough data sets it gets quite
accurate.

Again, the line above says it all. There have to be 'enough' data sets,
read at the same times, not influenced by man-made structures, etc, etc, in
order to say that the 'average temperature of the earth' is doing anything.

If you said, "The average temperature of these 1279 thermometers read at
1200 hrs, GMT was X," then you'd get no argument. You could make all the
claims you wanted about the 'average temperature of the 1279'!

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:47:47 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 8, 12:11*am, -rick- wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Hint 3: You can only develop an accurate data set by averaging
discrete temperatures every square mile of the Earth. *That would be
approximately 197,000,000 data reporting instruments.

Why not require every square meter or every thousand square
miles? *Why not every cubic mile?... seriously.

Exactly!

Answered.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:46:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 8, 9:54 am, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:13:17 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snipped

Loogy, you said it all right below:

An average is an average.

We all agree with that statement. The question revolves about the title
you
give your average. Apparently that's a point you're not grasping well.

If I take the average of the noon temperature in Seattle (50F)and the
3:00
PM temperature in Washington, DC (64F}, I can then say the average of
the
two temperatures at the same time was 57F. If I wanted to be bold, I
could
say that the average temperature across the continental US was 57F.

Hopefully, we can both see the stupidity of that 'boldness'.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

It is what it is. An average. Given enough data sets it gets quite
accurate.

Again, the line above says it all. There have to be 'enough' data sets,
read at the same times, not influenced by man-made structures, etc, etc,
in
order to say that the 'average temperature of the earth' is doing
anything.

If you said, "The average temperature of these 1279 thermometers read at
1200 hrs, GMT was X," then you'd get no argument. You could make all the
claims you wanted about the 'average temperature of the 1279'!

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Both wrong. You only need ONE data set. But it needs to be a huge data
set. And do you read all the data points at a single time. Or do your read
all the data points at Noon locally or some other local time point? OR do
you read all the data points at the same relative time. Divide the world in
24 time zones as now? Or into 360 time zones on each degree of the
circumference? As Tom the mathematician says there are lots of different
ways to average.

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 13:07:31 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:46:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 8, 9:54 am, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:13:17 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snipped

Loogy, you said it all right below:

An average is an average.

We all agree with that statement. The question revolves about the title
you
give your average. Apparently that's a point you're not grasping well.

If I take the average of the noon temperature in Seattle (50F)and the
3:00
PM temperature in Washington, DC (64F}, I can then say the average of
the
two temperatures at the same time was 57F. If I wanted to be bold, I
could
say that the average temperature across the continental US was 57F.

Hopefully, we can both see the stupidity of that 'boldness'.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

It is what it is. An average. Given enough data sets it gets quite
accurate.

Again, the line above says it all. There have to be 'enough' data sets,
read at the same times, not influenced by man-made structures, etc, etc,
in
order to say that the 'average temperature of the earth' is doing
anything.

If you said, "The average temperature of these 1279 thermometers read at
1200 hrs, GMT was X," then you'd get no argument. You could make all the
claims you wanted about the 'average temperature of the 1279'!

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Both wrong. You only need ONE data set. But it needs to be a huge data
set. And do you read all the data points at a single time. Or do your read
all the data points at Noon locally or some other local time point? OR do
you read all the data points at the same relative time. Divide the world in
24 time zones as now? Or into 360 time zones on each degree of the
circumference? As Tom the mathematician says there are lots of different
ways to average.


Did I say something different?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."