To sea trial/haul or not
 

A sea trial, hauling, survey and re-launch is scheduled for Wednesday on the
Navigator "weather permitting".

I haven't been down to the marina for a week due to two snowstorms up here.
I suspect the back basin (which is brackish water) is iced over, although
probably just on the surface. I am not sure about the inner harbor,
although it has frozen enough to walk on in past winters.

Forecast is for rain/snow on Wednesday although it may just be showers.

I am leaning towards canceling the event and, assuming the buyer is still
interested in the boat closer to spring, doing it then. He wants to leave
the boat at it's current slip at my marina for the remainder of the winter
anyway.

I've been debating this in my head all morning. Obviously both brokers
involved want to forge ahead, influenced by commissions. The buyer doesn't
want to move the boat until spring anyway and, if the sale is consummated,
the closing won't be until the first week of January at the earliest.

Since I've never used the boat as an ice breaker I don't know the risks
involved. Frankly I don't have any experience of, or have even heard of
doing sea trials and surveys in the middle of winter, especially if it's
snowing/raining/icy.

It dawned on me that if something happens due to weather or ice, the risk is
totally on us. The buyer can say, "Gee, that's too bad", and head for
home.

Anybody do this before?

Eisboch

To sea trial/haul or not
 

Eisboch wrote:
A sea trial, hauling, survey and re-launch is scheduled for Wednesday on the
Navigator "weather permitting".

I haven't been down to the marina for a week due to two snowstorms up here.
I suspect the back basin (which is brackish water) is iced over, although
probably just on the surface. I am not sure about the inner harbor,
although it has frozen enough to walk on in past winters.

Forecast is for rain/snow on Wednesday although it may just be showers.

I am leaning towards canceling the event and, assuming the buyer is still
interested in the boat closer to spring, doing it then. He wants to leave
the boat at it's current slip at my marina for the remainder of the winter
anyway.

I've been debating this in my head all morning. Obviously both brokers
involved want to forge ahead, influenced by commissions. The buyer doesn't
want to move the boat until spring anyway and, if the sale is consummated,
the closing won't be until the first week of January at the earliest.

Since I've never used the boat as an ice breaker I don't know the risks
involved. Frankly I don't have any experience of, or have even heard of
doing sea trials and surveys in the middle of winter, especially if it's
snowing/raining/icy.

It dawned on me that if something happens due to weather or ice, the risk is
totally on us. The buyer can say, "Gee, that's too bad", and head for
home.

Anybody do this before?

Eisboch




I wouldn't risk it. If something bad happens in winter on the water in
your neck of the woods, you're dead.

Can you structure a contingency sale, with the buyer's only option for
backing out some horror turning up in the survey? In sales, if you don't
strike while the iron is hot, you are likely to lose the sale because
the buyer finds something else he likes or loses interest altogether.

The problem is, with the economy tanking, and it is, if you lose this
buyer, you may not find another for a long, long time.

To sea trial/haul or not
 

Since I've never used the boat as an ice breaker I don't know the risks
involved.

Ice is hard, probably quite a bit harder than the sides of your hull. They
make icebreakers out of VERY thick STEEL for a reason. I can't imagine it
would take much more than a thin bit of ice to present real problems for the
typical recreational boat hull. The problem being angle of impact. The
sharp edge of a 1/2" chunk of ice hit at speed transfers a heckuva lot of
force at a very small point of impact.

Then there's insurance, your policy quite likely will have coverage
problems. Made worse if you get into enough trouble that someone got
injured. To say nothing of the 'die a quick death' risk due to the frigid
water. That leaves their estate to sue yours, extending the mistake well
past your own lifetime.

It dawned on me that if something happens due to weather or ice, the risk
is
totally on us. The buyer can say, "Gee, that's too bad", and head for
home.

Yep.

If the water is completely clear, and you're SURE your insurance is active
and in-force for being under way, then it'd be like any other day out. Just
make sure the dinghy's on board and working.

To sea trial/haul or not
 

"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:

A sea trial, hauling, survey and re-launch is scheduled for Wednesday on
the Navigator "weather permitting".


I wouldn't risk it. If something bad happens in winter on the water in
your neck of the woods, you're dead.

Can you structure a contingency sale, with the buyer's only option for
backing out some horror turning up in the survey? In sales, if you don't
strike while the iron is hot, you are likely to lose the sale because the
buyer finds something else he likes or loses interest altogether.

The problem is, with the economy tanking, and it is, if you lose this
buyer, you may not find another for a long, long time.

Well, that's another issue. I am probably not motivated enough to sell it
anyway and certainly not enough to take unnecessary risks (if there are any)
just to accomplish the sale.

They've asked me to run the boat which is fine, but if I do, it has to be by
my rules.
When I sold the Egg Harbor the buyer was a little miffed because I would not
allow him to dock it at the slip when we returned from the sea trial after
seeing how he handled it while underway and away from other boats. Maybe I
think too much about this stuff, but the last thing I want to do is to take
the boat out in the middle of winter, exercising my level of caution, while
having the brokers and buyer wanting to do more.

I am thinking I'll cancel it. If he's interested in the spring, fine. If
not, so be it.

But, I'll mulch on this a bit more.

Eisboch

To sea trial/haul or not
 

"Bill Kearney" wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote in message
t...



If the water is completely clear, and you're SURE your insurance is active
and in-force for being under way, then it'd be like any other day out.
Just
make sure the dinghy's on board and working.


That's a good point. My insurance defaults to an "off season storage"
policy at the end of October, unless I change it. It allows for "wet
storage" (in a slip) as long as bubblers are used, which they are. The
bubblers only keep the area around the hull from freezing hard. The basin
channels however, do freeze.

Eisboch

To sea trial/haul or not
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:

A sea trial, hauling, survey and re-launch is scheduled for Wednesday on
the Navigator "weather permitting".

I wouldn't risk it. If something bad happens in winter on the water in
your neck of the woods, you're dead.

Can you structure a contingency sale, with the buyer's only option for
backing out some horror turning up in the survey? In sales, if you don't
strike while the iron is hot, you are likely to lose the sale because the
buyer finds something else he likes or loses interest altogether.

The problem is, with the economy tanking, and it is, if you lose this
buyer, you may not find another for a long, long time.

Well, that's another issue. I am probably not motivated enough to sell it
anyway and certainly not enough to take unnecessary risks (if there are any)
just to accomplish the sale.

They've asked me to run the boat which is fine, but if I do, it has to be by
my rules.
When I sold the Egg Harbor the buyer was a little miffed because I would not
allow him to dock it at the slip when we returned from the sea trial after
seeing how he handled it while underway and away from other boats. Maybe I
think too much about this stuff, but the last thing I want to do is to take
the boat out in the middle of winter, exercising my level of caution, while
having the brokers and buyer wanting to do more.

I am thinking I'll cancel it. If he's interested in the spring, fine. If
not, so be it.

But, I'll mulch on this a bit more.

Eisboch




Too many horrific consequences are possible in connection with winter
boating in your latitude.

To sea trial/haul or not
 

On Dec 17, 9:46 am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Bill Kearney" wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote in message

t...



If the water is completely clear, and you're SURE your insurance is active
and in-force for being under way, then it'd be like any other day out.
Just
make sure the dinghy's on board and working.

That's a good point. My insurance defaults to an "off season storage"
policy at the end of October, unless I change it. It allows for "wet
storage" (in a slip) as long as bubblers are used, which they are. The
bubblers only keep the area around the hull from freezing hard. The basin
channels however, do freeze.

Eisboch

Rule one. Don't get dead. Just not worth it.

To sea trial/haul or not
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:

A sea trial, hauling, survey and re-launch is scheduled for Wednesday on
the Navigator "weather permitting".


I wouldn't risk it. If something bad happens in winter on the water in
your neck of the woods, you're dead.

Can you structure a contingency sale, with the buyer's only option for
backing out some horror turning up in the survey? In sales, if you don't
strike while the iron is hot, you are likely to lose the sale because the
buyer finds something else he likes or loses interest altogether.

The problem is, with the economy tanking, and it is, if you lose this
buyer, you may not find another for a long, long time.

Well, that's another issue. I am probably not motivated enough to sell
it anyway and certainly not enough to take unnecessary risks (if there are
any) just to accomplish the sale.

They've asked me to run the boat which is fine, but if I do, it has to be
by my rules.
When I sold the Egg Harbor the buyer was a little miffed because I would
not allow him to dock it at the slip when we returned from the sea trial
after seeing how he handled it while underway and away from other boats.
Maybe I think too much about this stuff, but the last thing I want to do
is to take the boat out in the middle of winter, exercising my level of
caution, while having the brokers and buyer wanting to do more.

I am thinking I'll cancel it. If he's interested in the spring, fine.
If not, so be it.

But, I'll mulch on this a bit more.

Eisboch

I'd certainly play it safe if you're not desperate to sell. If he thinks
about it the buyer should agree.
The downside of losing the interest that the purchase money could earn would
be easily offset by any damage to your boat.

To sea trial/haul or not
 

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:24:00 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

Since I've never used the boat as an ice breaker I don't know the risks
involved. Frankly I don't have any experience of, or have even heard of
doing sea trials and surveys in the middle of winter, especially if it's
snowing/raining/icy.

There are a lot of risks, not the least of which is losing the sale.

What is frequently done in a winter sale is to set up an escrow
account which you fund. The escrow is to cover any repair issues
which could not be discovered during the winter, and is held by a 3rd
party - sometimes a broker, sometimes an attorney. The agreement must
carefully spell out exactly what is covered, which in this case it
would be sea trial issues - engines, running gear, etc. The
agreement should also spell out how disputes are settled, typically
arbitration.

Don't take the boat out in ice. I've done it (accidently) and even
thin skim ice will gouge your bottom paint and gel coat around the
water line. We all know what thick ice can do.

Your insurance coverage, or lack thereof, is a big issue also. If the
buyer insists on a winter sea trial, have him purchase special one
time coverage through your insurance company, payable to you.

Personally I would do whatever it takes to get the deal done as long
as the risks are covered.

To sea trial/haul or not
 

(Bill*Kearney)wrote
Since I've never used the boat as an ice breaker I don't know the risks
involved.
Ice is hard, probably quite a bit harder than the sides of your hull.
They make icebreakers out of VERY thick STEEL for a reason. I can't
imagine it would take much more than a thin bit of ice to present real
problems for the typical recreational boat hull. The problem being angle
of impact. The sharp edge of a 1/2" chunk of ice hit at speed transfers
a heckuva lot of force at a very small point of impact.
Then there's insurance, your policy quite likely will have coverage
problems. Made worse if you get into enough trouble that someone got
injured. To say nothing of the 'die a quick death' risk due to the
frigid water. That leaves their estate to sue yours, extending the
mistake well past your own lifetime.
It dawned on me that if something happens due to weather or ice, the
risk is totally on us. The buyer can say, "Gee, that's too bad", and
head for home.
Yep.
If the water is completely clear, and you're SURE your insurance is
active and in-force for being under way, then it'd be like any other day
out. Just make sure the dinghy's on board and working.

I'd also like to add that even the thinnest ice, also known as "Skim
Ice" or "Razor Ice" can be extremely hazardous to FG and wood hulls
alike. I've seen fairly deep slice marks down the waterline in running
boats thru this type of ice, especially at slow speeds. UD