To sea trial/haul or not -update
 

I arrived at the boat around noon today, only to find the back basin frozen
over. I got a couple of good sized rocks, walked out to the end of the
finger pier and tossed them about 30 feet in the air to the middle of the
channel. They just bounced off the ice, so it's solid.

Nobody I've talked to recommends trying to use a fiberglass boat as an ice
breaker, even in thin ice, so I called both of the involved brokers to give
them a heads up. I explained to the buyer's broker that unless we have a
major heat wave overnight, moving the boat from the slip tomorrow will not
be possible. I told them they are welcome to come up and do a dockside
survey, run the engines, etc., but hauling or a sea trial is very unlikely.
It's their call. (The buyer is flying three people up here.)

Meanwhile, I found out that the closing on the buyer's current boat
originally scheduled for Dec 10th still has not happened. An oil sample
came back with some strange readings on one of the transmissions and is
apparently causing a delay.

I again suggested to the buyer's broker that we all chill out, wait until
spring and see how many issues have resolved themselves. We will hold the
boat for them at the agreed upon price and do a full up survey and sea trial
in the spring.

I know it doesn't serve a broker's interests, but it is what it is and some
things cannot be forced.

Eisboch (learning that buying a boat is a hell of a lot easier than
selling one)

To sea trial/haul or not -update
 

Eisboch wrote:
I know it doesn't serve a broker's interests, but it is what it is and some
things cannot be forced.

Eisboch (learning that buying a boat is a hell of a lot easier than
selling one)


Well, I know that purchasing large hull craft is much more stringent
than a typical runabout, but concerning a "sea trial"? around here is,
something like "show me the money then you can "sea trial" it all you
can stand!" I know that wouldn't go over well with a boat like
Richards, but then again, to ask someone to take their boat out in
winter weather is really kind of foolish that is, in my opinion. Like
cold weather won't produce stresses on the hull (maybe)" diesel
engines don't want to start as easy etc. oils are cold, and when
warmed up will want to draw more moisture. Plus as what has been
mentioned that hitting ice isn't good. especially when that's not what
the craft was intended for. So why risk wadding up the boat (not
counting the prospective clients as well as yourself) just to take
somebody for a possible "joy ride" then to have them dicker even more
if something breaks off? Oh yeah, are they wanting you to provide the
drinks and hors devours too???

Now Harry says the economy is waning, which it very well may be, but
evidently a lot of people haven't figured that out yet. There's money
out there that people are willing to spend. If Ebay is any kind of an
economic barometer, I'd like to mention that the used boat market is
stronger now than it was two years ago. In this off season, I'm seeing
used craft actually sell for just as good if not better money than
compatible craft did in the spring of 2005 when people are hit with
the boat fever, and are armed with tax return money.

And I doubt if Richard ahs to sell it to survive, so I would say that
I'd pass on this type of deal. It really doesn't seem that great,
especially to go through all this hassle (maybe even deadly) just for
somebody to say "well, I'll think about it"....

Now Richard if this is deemed to be a MUST SELL item, then I am
prepared to give you a buck forty-nine for it, just the way she
sits. . And I would hope you would consider that my more than generous
offering is far more gratuitous than Toms petty "50 quatloos".

?:

To sea trial/haul or not -update
 

On Dec 18, 3:05�pm, Tim wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
I know it doesn't serve a broker's interests, but it is what it is and some
things cannot be forced.

Eisboch � (learning that buying a boat is a hell of a lot easier than
selling one)

Well, I know that purchasing large hull craft is much more stringent
than a typical runabout, but concerning a "sea trial"? around here is,
something like "show me the money then you can "sea trial" it all you
can stand!" I know that wouldn't go over well with a boat like
Richards, but then again, to ask someone to take their boat out in
winter weather is really kind of foolish that is, in my opinion. Like
cold weather won't produce stresses on the hull (maybe)" diesel
engines don't want to start as easy etc. oils are cold, and when
warmed up will want to draw more moisture. Plus as what has been
mentioned that hitting ice isn't good. especially when that's not what
the craft was intended for. �So why risk wadding up the boat (not
counting the prospective clients as well as yourself) just to take
somebody for a possible "joy ride" then to have them dicker even more
if something breaks off? �Oh yeah, are they wanting you to provide the
drinks and hors devours too???

And I doubt if Richard ahs to sell it to survive, so I would say that
I'd pass on this type of deal. It really doesn't seem that great,
especially to go through all this hassle (maybe even deadly) just for
somebody to say "well, I'll think about it"....


It's customary when buying a larger boat to make an offer "subject to
sea trial and survey". Sellers aren't going to joy ride every casual
prospect that happens along, but if a buyer is willing to put up at
least a few thousand dollars "earnest" money and state "If I like the
way the boat runs and if it surveys to my satisfaction I'm willing to
buy it for $XXXXXX", that's a totally different scenario.

Would you pay a six figure price for a boat that you had never been
aboard while underway? I'll bet you insist on taking a $2500 used car
for a spin around the block, and there's a lot more that can go wrong
with a boat than with a '92 Honda Accord.

The ball is really in the buyer's court all the way through the deal
in any case. A good broker will ask the buyer to sign off on a written
statement proclaiming the sea trial "satisfactory" (assuming that it
was)....but if a buyer is looking for an out all he really needs to
say is
"I didn't like the way the boat wallowed in following seas" or
something similar and the buyer is off the hook. Same with the survey.
I've seen buyers go sideways based on entirely inconsequential items
in survey; in fact I specifically remember a guy using the survey
clause to escape
a deal and recover his deposit when I was selling a1-year old boat
with
about 40 hours on the meter. His excuse: "The surveyor said the bilge
was a little bit dirty, and there's no acceptable reason for a dirty
bilge on a boat with 40 hours on it."

Even after signing off on the sea trial and the survey- all the buyer
is really risking if he doesn't ultimately close on the deal is his
deposit.
The seller has the right to sue for "specific performance", but almost
nobody ever does and there's always a chance the court would say that
the forfeited deposit was sufficient compensation for the buyer's non-
performance.

To sea trial/haul or not -update
 

On Dec 18, 5:36Â*pm, Chuck Gould wrote:
On Dec 18, 3:05�pm, Tim wrote:





Eisboch wrote:
I know it doesn't serve a broker's interests, but it is what it is and some
things cannot be forced.

Eisboch � (learning that buying a boat is a hell of a lot easier than
selling one)

Well, I know that purchasing large hull craft is much more stringent
than a typical runabout, but concerning a "sea trial"? around here is,
something like "show me the money then you can "sea trial" it all you
can stand!" I know that wouldn't go over well with a boat like
Richards, but then again, to ask someone to take their boat out in
winter weather is really kind of foolish that is, in my opinion. Like
cold weather won't produce stresses on the hull (maybe)" diesel
engines don't want to start as easy etc. oils are cold, and when
warmed up will want to draw more moisture. Plus as what has been
mentioned that hitting ice isn't good. especially when that's not what
the craft was intended for. �So why risk wadding up the boat (not
counting the prospective clients as well as yourself) just to take
somebody for a possible "joy ride" then to have them dicker even more
if something breaks off? �Oh yeah, are they wanting you to provide the
drinks and hors devours too???

And I doubt if Richard ahs to sell it to survive, so I would say that
I'd pass on this type of deal. It really doesn't seem that great,
especially to go through all this hassle (maybe even deadly) just for
somebody to say "well, I'll think about it"....

It's customary when buying a larger boat to make an offer "subject to
sea trial and survey". Sellers aren't going to joy ride every casual
prospect that happens along, but if a buyer is willing to put up Â*at
least a few thousand dollars "earnest" money and state "If I like the
way the boat runs and if it surveys to my satisfaction I'm willing to
buy it for $XXXXXX", that's a totally different scenario.

Would you pay a six figure price for a boat that you had never been
aboard while underway? Â*I'll bet you insist on taking a $2500 used car
for a spin around the block, and there's a lot more that can go wrong
with a boat than with a '92 Honda Accord.

The ball is really in the buyer's court all the way through the deal
in any case. A good broker will ask the buyer to sign off on a written
statement proclaiming the sea trial "satisfactory" (assuming that it
was)....but if a buyer is looking for an out all he really needs to
say is
"I didn't like the way the boat wallowed in following seas" or
something similar and the buyer is off the hook. Same with the survey.
I've seen buyers go sideways based on entirely inconsequential items
in survey; in fact I specifically remember a guy using the survey
clause to escape
a deal and recover his deposit when I was selling a1-year old boat
with
about 40 hours on the meter. His excuse: "The surveyor said the bilge
was a little bit dirty, and there's no acceptable reason for a dirty
bilge on a boat with 40 hours on it."

Even after signing off on the sea trial and the survey- all the buyer
is really risking if he doesn't ultimately close on the deal is his
deposit.
The seller has the right to sue for "specific performance", but almost
nobody ever does and there's always a chance the court would say that
the forfeited deposit was sufficient compensation for the buyer's non-
performance.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree Chuck, that it seems like buying a large craft can be like
buying a house.

Would you pay a six figure price for a boat that you had never been
aboard while underway?

Actually I wouldn't pay a 6 figure for a boat anyhow, so I dont'
count.

besides I DID offer him a "buck forty-nine" for it... ?:


I'll bet you insist on taking a $2500 used car
for a spin around the block, and there's a lot more that can go wrong
with a boat than with a '92 Honda Accord.

Not really. But I have bought and paid fo two boats before inspection
(practically sight unseen) and have been very satisfied with my
purchase[s].

what I'm saying is that for a prospective client to ask for a (for the
most part) fiar weather pleasure craft to be taken out in harsh cold
with a threat of ice. and ice damage. I'm saying that I would think
that a fool would ask the owner to do that, and that the owner would
be a bigger fool to give in to that request.


Thats all...

To sea trial/haul or not -update
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...


Eisboch wrote:
I know it doesn't serve a broker's interests, but it is what it is and
some
things cannot be forced.

Eisboch (learning that buying a boat is a hell of a lot easier than
selling one)


Well, I know that purchasing large hull craft is much more stringent
than a typical runabout, but concerning a "sea trial"? around here is,
something like "show me the money then you can "sea trial" it all you
can stand!" I know that wouldn't go over well with a boat like
Richards, but then again, to ask someone to take their boat out in
winter weather is really kind of foolish that is, in my opinion.

The process for buying or selling a boat that has some value should be the
same, big or small, especially when brokers are involved. It's not unlike a
house sale. Initial inspection/tour, think about it, decide you like it
and make an offer. The offer may be accepted or a counter offer proposed.
The offer contains any contingencies ... sale of existing boat, obtaining
financing, survey and sea trial, mechanic's inspection and, importantly,
time period for execution and closing assuming successful accomplishment of
all contingincies. When the offer is agreed to by both parties, a deposit
is made, usually representing 10 percent of the sale price. (Interesting
that this amount is usually the same as the broker's commission who holds
the deposit in escrow).

Another standard test for diesel powered boats is an oil analysis of
engines, generator and transmissions.

One major difference between a boat sale and a house sale is, as Chuck
pointed out, it's much easier for a boat buyer to walk away from the deal
based on a subjective impression of the survey or sea trial. The results of
the survey/sea trial may also produce another round of price negotiations or
obligation on the seller's part to address any problems.

I don't think the sale of an old rowboat needs this process, nor the
purchase of a specific boat that you know very well and it's history. When
we bought the Navigator it was brand new. No financing was involved, so
there was no requirement for a survey from a bank. We did one anyway, even
though it was new, and it was well worth it as I learned more about the boat
than I ever would have learned from the dealer.

Eisboch

To sea trial/haul or not -update
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...


what I'm saying is that for a prospective client to ask for a (for the
most part) fiar weather pleasure craft to be taken out in harsh cold
with a threat of ice. and ice damage. I'm saying that I would think
that a fool would ask the owner to do that, and that the owner would
be a bigger fool to give in to that request.


Thats all...

You are correct. It is the brokers who tend to want to close the deal as
quickly as possible for two reasons.

1. Commission
2. They realize that boat buyers are fickle and any delay includes a risk of
the buyer changing his/her mind. Sellers often change their mind also, but
it is more difficult for them to walk away from a signed agreement.

In my case, more pressure was applied by the buyer's broker to execute the
survey/sea trial and close the deal.
He even alluded to legal obligations on my part, but backed off when I made
it clear that I would be the one to decide if we got underway or not,
contract or no contract.

But, in the end, common sense prevailed.

Eisboch

To sea trial/haul or not -update
 

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 02:08:33 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

No financing was involved, so
there was no requirement for a survey from a bank. We did one anyway, even
though it was new, and it was well worth it as I learned more about the boat
than I ever would have learned from the dealer.

I'll second that - although I think one can get carried away with
surveys on new boats under say 25 feet.

To sea trial/haul or not -update
 

On Dec 19, 5:02 am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

I'll second that - although I think one can get carried away with
surveys on new boats under say 25 feet.


Agreed, Tom. When I was considering buying my 23 ft. cuddie, somebody
on here firmly suggested that I demand a survey and sea trial...


For a boat I was going to give less than $2000.000 for?

To sea trial/haul or not -update
 

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:16:54 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Dec 19, 5:02 am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

I'll second that - although I think one can get carried away with
surveys on new boats under say 25 feet.

Agreed, Tom. When I was considering buying my 23 ft. cuddie, somebody
on here firmly suggested that I demand a survey and sea trial...

For a boat I was going to give less than $2000.000 for?

I can understand as you are mechanically inclined and have no small
knowledge of engines, transmissions and mechanical systems.

For the average schmuck, even at $2000, inspections can be very
important.

To sea trial/haul or not -update
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:16:54 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Dec 19, 5:02 am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

I'll second that - although I think one can get carried away with
surveys on new boats under say 25 feet.

Agreed, Tom. When I was considering buying my 23 ft. cuddie, somebody
on here firmly suggested that I demand a survey and sea trial...

For a boat I was going to give less than $2000.000 for?

I can understand as you are mechanically inclined and have no small
knowledge of engines, transmissions and mechanical systems.

For the average schmuck, even at $2000, inspections can be very
important.

Well Tom, I woudl say that with a $200,000.00 craft, then yes. But if
a person is afraid they're going to waste 2K on a runabout, then they
probably don't have any business boating anyhow. Not saying they
shouldn't boat, but .....