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Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic
and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. Santa will either have to move to the south pole, (where there is still plenty of ice), or take up boating. Maybe he'll participate in rec.boats, and become another one of the posters whose true identities are a mystery. :-) ************************************************** ******* AP Posted: 2007-12-11 23:00:56 Filed Under: Science News WASHINGTON (Dec. 11) - An already relentless melting of the Arctic greatly accelerated this summer, a warning sign that some scientists worry could mean global warming has passed an ominous tipping point. One even speculated that summer sea ice would be gone in five years. Greenland's ice sheet melted nearly 19 billion tons more than the previous high mark, and the volume of Arctic sea ice at summer's end was half what it was just four years earlier, according to new NASA satellite data obtained by The Associated Press. The Arctic is screaming," said Mark Serreze, senior scientist at the government's snow and ice data center in Boulder, Colo. Just last year, two top scientists surprised their colleagues by projecting that the Arctic sea ice was melting so rapidly that it could disappear entirely by the summer of 2040. This week, after reviewing his own new data, NASA climate scientist Jay Zwally said: "At this rate, the Arctic Ocean could be nearly ice- free at the end of summer by 2012, much faster than previous predictions." So scientists in recent days have been asking themselves these questions: Was the record melt seen all over the Arctic in 2007 a blip amid relentless and steady warming? Or has everything sped up to a new climate cycle that goes beyond the worst case scenarios presented by computer models? "The Arctic is often cited as the canary in the coal mine for climate warming," said Zwally, who as a teenager hauled coal. "Now as a sign of climate warming, the canary has died. It is time to start getting out of the coal mines." It is the burning of coal, oil and other fossil fuels that produces carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, responsible for man-made global warming. For the past several days, government diplomats have been debating in Bali, Indonesia, the outlines of a new climate treaty calling for tougher limits on these gases. What happens in the Arctic has implications for the rest of the world. Faster melting there means eventual sea level rise and more immediate changes in winter weather because of less sea ice. In the United States, a weakened Arctic blast moving south to collide with moist air from the Gulf of Mexico can mean less rain and snow in some areas, including the drought-stricken Southeast, said Michael MacCracken, a former federal climate scientist who now heads the nonprofit Climate Institute. Some regions, like Colorado, would likely get extra rain or snow. More than 18 scientists told the AP that they were surprised by the level of ice melt this year. "I don't pay much attention to one year ... but this year the change is so big, particularly in the Arctic sea ice, that you've got to stop and say, 'What is going on here?' You can't look away from what's happening here," said Waleed Abdalati, NASA's chief of cyrospheric sciences. "This is going to be a watershed year." 2007 shattered records for Arctic melt in the following ways: * 552 billion tons of ice melted this summer from the Greenland ice sheet, according to preliminary satellite data to be released by NASA Wednesday. That's 15 percent more than the annual average summer melt, beating 2005's record. * A record amount of surface ice was lost over Greenland this year, 12 percent more than the previous worst year, 2005, according to data the University of Colorado released Monday. That's nearly quadruple the amount that melted just 15 years ago. It's an amount of water that could cover Washington, D.C., a half-mile deep, researchers calculated. * The surface area of summer sea ice floating in the Arctic Ocean this summer was nearly 23 percent below the previous record. The dwindling sea ice already has affected wildlife, with 6,000 walruses coming ashore in northwest Alaska in October for the first time in recorded history. Another first: the Northwest Passage was open to navigation. * Still to be released is NASA data showing the remaining Arctic sea ice to be unusually thin, another record. That makes it more likely to melt in future summers. Combining the shrinking area covered by sea ice with the new thinness of the remaining ice, scientists calculate that the overall volume of ice is half of 2004's total. * Alaska's frozen permafrost is warming, not quite thawing yet. But temperature measurements 66 feet deep in the frozen soil rose nearly four-tenths of a degree from 2006 to 2007, according to measurements from the University of Alaska. While that may not sound like much, "it's very significant," said University of Alaska professor Vladimir Romanovsky. - Surface temperatures in the Arctic Ocean this summer were the highest in 77 years of record-keeping, with some places 8 degrees Fahrenheit above normal, according to research to be released Wednesday by University of Washington's Michael Steele. Greenland, in particular, is a significant bellwether. Most of its surface is covered by ice. If it completely melted -- something key scientists think would likely take centuries, not decades -- it could add more than 22 feet to the world's sea level. However, for nearly the past 30 years, the data pattern of its ice sheet melt has zigzagged. A bad year, like 2005, would be followed by a couple of lesser years. According to that pattern, 2007 shouldn't have been a major melt year, but it was, said Konrad Steffen, of the University of Colorado, which gathered the latest data. "I'm quite concerned," he said. "Now I look at 2008. Will it be even warmer than the past year?" Other new data, from a NASA satellite, measures ice volume. NASA geophysicist Scott Luthcke, reviewing it and other Greenland numbers, concluded: "We are quite likely entering a new regime." Melting of sea ice and Greenland's ice sheets also alarms scientists because they become part of a troubling spiral. White sea ice reflects about 80 percent of the sun's heat off Earth, NASA's Zwally said. When there is no sea ice, about 90 percent of the heat goes into the ocean which then warms everything else up. Warmer oceans then lead to more melting. "That feedback is the key to why the models predict that the Arctic warming is going to be faster," Zwally said. "It's getting even worse than the models predicted." NASA scientist James Hansen, the lone-wolf researcher often called the godfather of global warming, on Thursday was to tell scientists and others at the American Geophysical Union scientific in San Francisco that in some ways Earth has hit one of his so-called tipping points, based on Greenland melt data. "We have passed that and some other tipping points in the way that I will define them," Hansen said in an e-mail. "We have not passed a point of no return. We can still roll things back in time -- but it is going to require a quick turn in direction." Last year, Cecilia Bitz at the University of Washington and Marika Holland at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Colorado startled their colleagues when they predicted an Arctic free of sea ice in just a few decades. Both say they are surprised by the dramatic melt of 2007. Bitz, unlike others at NASA, believes that "next year we'll be back to normal, but we'll be seeing big anomalies again, occurring more frequently in the future." And that normal, she said, is still a "relentless decline" in ice. Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. 2007-12-11 22:04:59 |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...n-climate.html And lastly, http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf Do try and read the science instead of the AP. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 5:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...khaven-climate... And lastly, http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf Do try and read the science instead of the AP. Yeah, it is hard to tell which quotes are from NASA, employees of NASA, and the reporter... oh, and a few quotes from some of those 18 (eighteen) scientists.... Wonder who they were, if they worked for NASA, and how the other 10% of scientists in the world feel about it;) |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 2:56�am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...khaven-climate... And lastly, http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf Do try and read the science instead of the AP. The Lord Whatever in the first link is a British politician..... no more credible than Al Gore. (Al Gore should not be considered a climatologist). Neither of the individual scientists in the other two links dispute that the earth is in a warming trend, they are merely pooh-poohing any association between a change in the mixture of gases in the atmosphere and an increase in the temperature of the planet. Check that, one does agree that there is a link but postulates that the damage has already been done and that additionally altering he mixture of gases in the atmosphere is unlikely to accelerate warming any more. My post simply addressed arctic ice melt, as observed by NASA. You are reacting to the concept that "evil, greedy, industrial man has so poisoned the air with exhaust that we're all going to cook as a result".....and clearly that was not part of the message. It's a scientific fact, with empirical evidence provided by satellite photos and other official measurements, that the arctic ice is melting at an alarming and (at least through the summer of 2007) an accelerating pace. Whether that is caused by man's pollution of the atmosphere or not, if the trend continues we could face some dire consequences. You have posted here that you are aware of previous polar relocations. What happens to a revolving sphere when the distibution of mass is radically altered? With ice building up at the south pole and ice disappearing at the north pole, we could eventually experience up to a 90-degree shift in the orientation of the planet- with centrifugal force moving the heavy south pole into a position at or closer to the present equator. Previous polar shifts have been sudden, traumatic events. Very few species have survived. If present trends continue, the Arctic will be ice free during the summer months as early as 2012. Nowhere did NASA, the AP, or I insist that you sell your big block pickup truck and take up driving a Prius instead. :-) |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 5:25�am, wrote:
On Dec 12, 5:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...khaven-climate... And lastly, http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf Do try and read the science instead of the AP. Yeah, it is hard to tell which quotes are from NASA, employees of NASA, and the reporter... oh, and a few quotes from some of those 18 (eighteen) scientists.... Wonder who they were, if they worked for NASA, and how the other 10% of scientists in the world feel about it;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The important aspect of the item is that the photos (scientific evidence) are from NASA. There are a lot of folks insisting that anybody who even observes the earth is in a warming trend is somehow "lying for political purposes". Let's hope that doesn't include NASA. :-) |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Dec 12, 5:25�am, wrote: On Dec 12, 5:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...khaven-climate... And lastly, http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf Do try and read the science instead of the AP. Yeah, it is hard to tell which quotes are from NASA, employees of NASA, and the reporter... oh, and a few quotes from some of those 18 (eighteen) scientists.... Wonder who they were, if they worked for NASA, and how the other 10% of scientists in the world feel about it;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The important aspect of the item is that the photos (scientific evidence) are from NASA. There are a lot of folks insisting that anybody who even observes the earth is in a warming trend is somehow "lying for political purposes". Let's hope that doesn't include NASA. :-) At least 75% of those in warming denial seem to be folks who would be ****ed off if Al Gore were proven right on anything. Most of the rest don't want any interference in their overuse of fossil fuels. Some of the remainder are those with the proper science backgrounds who honestly disagree with the overwhelming majority of scientists who see global warming and our contribution to it as very real. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:56:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: | |According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic |and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of |the arctic) is melting at a rate that could |leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. | |http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302release.html | |http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...n-climate.html | |And lastly, | |http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/CarterTestimony.pdf | |Do try and read the science instead of the AP. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GGua87bN1M -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:11:38 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |On Dec 12, 2:56?am, Short Wave Sportfishing |wrote: | On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould | | wrote: | According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic | and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of | the arctic) is melting at a rate that could | leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. | | http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html | | http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...khaven-climate... | | And lastly, | | http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf | | Do try and read the science instead of the AP. | |The Lord Whatever in the first link is a British politician..... no |more credible than Al Gore. (Al Gore should not be considered a |climatologist). | |Neither of the individual scientists in the other two links dispute |that the earth is in a warming trend, they are merely pooh-poohing any |association between a change in the mixture of gases in the atmosphere |and an increase in the temperature of the planet. Check that, one does |agree that there is a link but postulates that the damage has already |been done and that additionally altering he mixture of gases in the |atmosphere is unlikely to accelerate warming any more. | |My post simply addressed arctic ice melt, as observed by NASA. |You are reacting to the concept that "evil, greedy, industrial man has |so poisoned the air with exhaust that we're all going to cook as a |result".....and clearly that was not part of the message. | |It's a scientific fact, with empirical evidence provided by satellite |photos and other official measurements, that the arctic ice is melting |at an alarming and (at least through the summer of 2007) an |accelerating pace. Whether that is caused by man's pollution of the |atmosphere or not, if the trend continues we could face some dire |consequences. | |You have posted here that you are aware of previous polar relocations. |What happens to a revolving sphere when the distibution of mass is |radically altered? With ice building up at the south pole and ice |disappearing at the north pole, we could eventually experience up to a |90-degree shift in the orientation of the planet- with centrifugal |force moving the heavy south pole into a position at or closer to the |present equator. Previous polar shifts have been sudden, traumatic |events. Very few species have survived. | |If present trends continue, the Arctic will be ice free during the |summer months as early as 2012. Nowhere did NASA, the AP, or I insist |that you sell your big block pickup truck and take up driving a Prius |instead. :-) I'll soon have oceanfront property... I guess that isn't *all* bad.... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:13:16 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GGua87bN1M That's one laid back cat. --Vic |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 10:14Â*am, Chuck Gould wrote:
On Dec 12, 5:25�am, wrote: On Dec 12, 5:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...khaven-climate.... And lastly, http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf Do try and read the science instead of the AP. Yeah, it is hard to tell which quotes are from NASA, employees of NASA, and the reporter... oh, and a few quotes from some of those 18 (eighteen) scientists.... Wonder who they were, if they worked for NASA, and how the other 10% of scientists in the world feel about it;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The important aspect of the item is that the photos (scientific evidence) are from NASA. There are a lot of folks insisting that anybody who even observes the earth is in a warming trend is somehow "lying for political purposes". Let's hope that doesn't include NASA. Â*:-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I find it almost scary that there are still people on this earth with their heads stuck so far in the sand, with their ears plugged, that with all of the reams and reams of data suggesting otherwise, still continue to say that global warming isn't happening. I hope to hell none who are that narrow minded are in any kind of technical field! |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
Seems as though you and some of those at NASA forgot about this other recent
NASA report- http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/loo...-20071113.html Lets also remember that the world has cooled since 1998. If we are to believe the global warming theorists, the Earth is already in a positive feedback loop which would cause a steady increase in the average global temperature- and this is not happening. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. Good grief. What will happen to that well known exotic dancing troupe called "The Polar Bares" ?? |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
wrote in message ... On Dec 12, 10:14 am, Chuck Gould wrote: On Dec 12, 5:25?am, wrote: On Dec 12, 5:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...khaven-climate... And lastly, http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf Do try and read the science instead of the AP. Yeah, it is hard to tell which quotes are from NASA, employees of NASA, and the reporter... oh, and a few quotes from some of those 18 (eighteen) scientists.... Wonder who they were, if they worked for NASA, and how the other 10% of scientists in the world feel about it;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The important aspect of the item is that the photos (scientific evidence) are from NASA. There are a lot of folks insisting that anybody who even observes the earth is in a warming trend is somehow "lying for political purposes". Let's hope that doesn't include NASA. :-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I find it almost scary that there are still people on this earth with their heads stuck so far in the sand, with their ears plugged, that with all of the reams and reams of data suggesting otherwise, still continue to say that global warming isn't happening. I hope to hell none who are that narrow minded are in any kind of technical field! I don't think people around here deny there is global warming. The skepticism is how much is due to normal cycles and how much is due to human contributions. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 8:19�am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:13:16 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GGua87bN1M That's one laid back cat. --Vic Catnip. :-) |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
"HK" wrote in message ... At least 75% of those in warming denial seem to be folks who would be ****ed off if Al Gore were proven right on anything. Algore didn't invent global warming- Margaret Thatcher did. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:22:23 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote: On Dec 12, 8:19?am, Vic Smith wrote: On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:13:16 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GGua87bN1M That's one laid back cat. --Vic Catnip. :-) Maybe something stronger. This one was hillaryous: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLS7HBIQ-5A&feature=user --Vic |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 8:57 am, "BillP" wrote:
Seems as though you and some of those at NASA forgot about this other recent NASA report-http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/ipy-20071113.html Lets also remember that the world has cooled since 1998. If we are to believe the global warming theorists, the Earth is already in a positive feedback loop which would cause a steady increase in the average global temperature- and this is not happening. Bill, Please read the very first paragraph of your link: **** PASADENA, Calif. - A team of NASA and university scientists has detected an ongoing reversal in Arctic Ocean circulation triggered by atmospheric circulation changes that vary on decade-long time scales. The results suggest not all the large changes seen in Arctic climate in recent years are a result of long-term trends associated with global warming. ******* Consider what that says. Nowhere does it say that there aren't large changes being observed in the Arctic climate, only that the results "suggest not all the large changes....are a result of long-term trends associated with global warming." You link *confirms* that there are large changes occuring in the Arctic climate. (Which is consistent with the NASA photographic evidence). Your link *acknowledges* the existence of global warming, merely denies that "all" of the large changes in Arctic climate can be associated with the phenomenon. It also accepts the concept of global warming as a "long term trend". Next? |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 12:39 pm, "BillP" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message ... At least 75% of those in warming denial seem to be folks who would be ****ed off if Al Gore were proven right on anything. Algore didn't invent global warming- Margaret Thatcher did. Snowpack in peril By Betsy Mason STAFF WRITER Article Launched: 12/12/2007 03:00:48 AM PST Click photo to enlargeA lone skier travels past one of three snow making machines spraying a new layer onto ski runs at...12Dwindling snowpack, earlier stream flow and rising temperatures in the western United States can be attributed directly to human activity and will seriously affect California's water supply, perhaps in a matter of decades, according to new research. For the first time, scientists have linked several specific trends in a regional water cycle to global climate change caused by greenhouse gas emissions. Since 1950, the Sierra snowpack has decreased by about 20 percent, the temperature in the Rocky Mountains has gone up 3 degrees, and spring water flow in the Columbia River has decreased significantly. "These signals are the same no matter where you go in the West," marine physicist Tim Barnett of Scripps Institution of Oceanography said Tuesday at the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco. "We've got a real serious problem." By scaling down global climate models to bring greater detail of the region, a team of scientists led by Barnett and atmospheric scientist Ben Santer of Lawrence Livermore Laboratory projected these trends into the future and found a grim picture for the west. By about 2040, the Colorado Rockies will be nearly barren of snow as early as April 1 each year. And a similar story will play out in the Sierra. As temperature rises, the snowpack will disappear earlier, leading to a shift in peak stream flows to earlier in the year. This could be a significant problem for California, where the water supply already is -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Advertisement -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- performing a precarious balancing act. The state's reservoirs are filled during the rainy winter season, and as they are drawn down in the spring, melting snow from the Sierra Nevada replenishes them. "Mother Nature is acting like a tremendous reservoir for us," Barnett said. His research shows that that reservoir will shrink in the future and, more problematically, will melt too early in the season. This will not only leave California without much of its critical spring refill, it also will put reservoirs at a greater risk of flooding as mel****er arrives before the reservoir levels have gone down enough to accommodate it. "It's the timing that's the problem," he said. The team tested the accuracy of their climate models against past trends, and it was able to closely match actual changes in snowpack, stream flow and temperature. Team members then used the models to find the cause of the changes and found a distinct human fingerprint. Without adding past human greenhouse gas emissions into the equation, they could not get the models to reflect reality. "No matter what we did, we couldn't really shake this robust conclusion that a human influence on these three variables was identifiable," Santer said. "No matter how we cut the cake, no matter how hard we tried to look at the uncertainties and quantify them, we could not get a 'no' result, no detection of a fingerprint." Santer worries that much of California's water supply infrastructure was built when climate was relatively stable. "It's not stable any more," he said. Barnett is frustrated by the lack of preparation for the changes that are coming and by the federal government's inaction. "Global warming is already impacting us. We're getting hit now. The question is how big will the hit be in the future," he said. Adaptation will be important because the greenhouse gases already in the atmosphere will continue to heat up the globe for several decades. Meanwhile, global emissions continue to rise. "For someone who's got seven grandkids, that scares the hell out of me," Barnett said. "I've had a look at the future, and I don't like it." |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 12:16 pm, "D.Duck" wrote:
wrote in message ... On Dec 12, 10:14 am, Chuck Gould wrote: On Dec 12, 5:25?am, wrote: On Dec 12, 5:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...khaven-climate... And lastly, http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf Do try and read the science instead of the AP. Yeah, it is hard to tell which quotes are from NASA, employees of NASA, and the reporter... oh, and a few quotes from some of those 18 (eighteen) scientists.... Wonder who they were, if they worked for NASA, and how the other 10% of scientists in the world feel about it;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The important aspect of the item is that the photos (scientific evidence) are from NASA. There are a lot of folks insisting that anybody who even observes the earth is in a warming trend is somehow "lying for political purposes". Let's hope that doesn't include NASA. :-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I find it almost scary that there are still people on this earth with their heads stuck so far in the sand, with their ears plugged, that with all of the reams and reams of data suggesting otherwise, still continue to say that global warming isn't happening. I hope to hell none who are that narrow minded are in any kind of technical field! I don't think people around here deny there is global warming. The skepticism is how much is due to normal cycles and how much is due to human contributions.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Study after study after study done by scientist after scientist after scientist from many different agencies have come to conclude that global warming IS being helped along by man. Snowpack in peril By Betsy Mason STAFF WRITER Article Launched: 12/12/2007 03:00:48 AM PST Click photo to enlargeA lone skier travels past one of three snow making machines spraying a new layer onto ski runs at...12Dwindling snowpack, earlier stream flow and rising temperatures in the western United States can be attributed directly to human activity and will seriously affect California's water supply, perhaps in a matter of decades, according to new research. For the first time, scientists have linked several specific trends in a regional water cycle to global climate change caused by greenhouse gas emissions. Since 1950, the Sierra snowpack has decreased by about 20 percent, the temperature in the Rocky Mountains has gone up 3 degrees, and spring water flow in the Columbia River has decreased significantly. "These signals are the same no matter where you go in the West," marine physicist Tim Barnett of Scripps Institution of Oceanography said Tuesday at the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco. "We've got a real serious problem." By scaling down global climate models to bring greater detail of the region, a team of scientists led by Barnett and atmospheric scientist Ben Santer of Lawrence Livermore Laboratory projected these trends into the future and found a grim picture for the west. By about 2040, the Colorado Rockies will be nearly barren of snow as early as April 1 each year. And a similar story will play out in the Sierra. As temperature rises, the snowpack will disappear earlier, leading to a shift in peak stream flows to earlier in the year. This could be a significant problem for California, where the water supply already is -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Advertisement -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- performing a precarious balancing act. The state's reservoirs are filled during the rainy winter season, and as they are drawn down in the spring, melting snow from the Sierra Nevada replenishes them. "Mother Nature is acting like a tremendous reservoir for us," Barnett said. His research shows that that reservoir will shrink in the future and, more problematically, will melt too early in the season. This will not only leave California without much of its critical spring refill, it also will put reservoirs at a greater risk of flooding as mel****er arrives before the reservoir levels have gone down enough to accommodate it. "It's the timing that's the problem," he said. The team tested the accuracy of their climate models against past trends, and it was able to closely match actual changes in snowpack, stream flow and temperature. Team members then used the models to find the cause of the changes and found a distinct human fingerprint. Without adding past human greenhouse gas emissions into the equation, they could not get the models to reflect reality. "No matter what we did, we couldn't really shake this robust conclusion that a human influence on these three variables was identifiable," Santer said. "No matter how we cut the cake, no matter how hard we tried to look at the uncertainties and quantify them, we could not get a 'no' result, no detection of a fingerprint." Santer worries that much of California's water supply infrastructure was built when climate was relatively stable. "It's not stable any more," he said. Barnett is frustrated by the lack of preparation for the changes that are coming and by the federal government's inaction. "Global warming is already impacting us. We're getting hit now. The question is how big will the hit be in the future," he said. Adaptation will be important because the greenhouse gases already in the atmosphere will continue to heat up the globe for several decades. Meanwhile, global emissions continue to rise. "For someone who's got seven grandkids, that scares the hell out of me," Barnett said. "I've had a look at the future, and I don't like it." |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
wrote in message ... On Dec 12, 12:16 pm, "D.Duck" wrote: wrote in message ... On Dec 12, 10:14 am, Chuck Gould wrote: On Dec 12, 5:25?am, wrote: On Dec 12, 5:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...khaven-climate... And lastly, http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf Do try and read the science instead of the AP. Yeah, it is hard to tell which quotes are from NASA, employees of NASA, and the reporter... oh, and a few quotes from some of those 18 (eighteen) scientists.... Wonder who they were, if they worked for NASA, and how the other 10% of scientists in the world feel about it;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The important aspect of the item is that the photos (scientific evidence) are from NASA. There are a lot of folks insisting that anybody who even observes the earth is in a warming trend is somehow "lying for political purposes". Let's hope that doesn't include NASA. :-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I find it almost scary that there are still people on this earth with their heads stuck so far in the sand, with their ears plugged, that with all of the reams and reams of data suggesting otherwise, still continue to say that global warming isn't happening. I hope to hell none who are that narrow minded are in any kind of technical field! I don't think people around here deny there is global warming. The skepticism is how much is due to normal cycles and how much is due to human contributions.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Study after study after study done by scientist after scientist after scientist from many different agencies have come to conclude that global warming IS being helped along by man. Snowpack in peril By Betsy Mason STAFF WRITER Article Launched: 12/12/2007 03:00:48 AM PST Click photo to enlargeA lone skier travels past one of three snow making machines spraying a new layer onto ski runs at...12Dwindling snowpack, earlier stream flow and rising temperatures in the western United States can be attributed directly to human activity and will seriously affect California's water supply, perhaps in a matter of decades, according to new research. For the first time, scientists have linked several specific trends in a regional water cycle to global climate change caused by greenhouse gas emissions. Since 1950, the Sierra snowpack has decreased by about 20 percent, the temperature in the Rocky Mountains has gone up 3 degrees, and spring water flow in the Columbia River has decreased significantly. "These signals are the same no matter where you go in the West," marine physicist Tim Barnett of Scripps Institution of Oceanography said Tuesday at the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco. "We've got a real serious problem." By scaling down global climate models to bring greater detail of the region, a team of scientists led by Barnett and atmospheric scientist Ben Santer of Lawrence Livermore Laboratory projected these trends into the future and found a grim picture for the west. By about 2040, the Colorado Rockies will be nearly barren of snow as early as April 1 each year. And a similar story will play out in the Sierra. As temperature rises, the snowpack will disappear earlier, leading to a shift in peak stream flows to earlier in the year. This could be a significant problem for California, where the water supply already is -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Advertisement -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- performing a precarious balancing act. The state's reservoirs are filled during the rainy winter season, and as they are drawn down in the spring, melting snow from the Sierra Nevada replenishes them. "Mother Nature is acting like a tremendous reservoir for us," Barnett said. His research shows that that reservoir will shrink in the future and, more problematically, will melt too early in the season. This will not only leave California without much of its critical spring refill, it also will put reservoirs at a greater risk of flooding as mel****er arrives before the reservoir levels have gone down enough to accommodate it. "It's the timing that's the problem," he said. The team tested the accuracy of their climate models against past trends, and it was able to closely match actual changes in snowpack, stream flow and temperature. Team members then used the models to find the cause of the changes and found a distinct human fingerprint. Without adding past human greenhouse gas emissions into the equation, they could not get the models to reflect reality. "No matter what we did, we couldn't really shake this robust conclusion that a human influence on these three variables was identifiable," Santer said. "No matter how we cut the cake, no matter how hard we tried to look at the uncertainties and quantify them, we could not get a 'no' result, no detection of a fingerprint." Santer worries that much of California's water supply infrastructure was built when climate was relatively stable. "It's not stable any more," he said. Barnett is frustrated by the lack of preparation for the changes that are coming and by the federal government's inaction. "Global warming is already impacting us. We're getting hit now. The question is how big will the hit be in the future," he said. Adaptation will be important because the greenhouse gases already in the atmosphere will continue to heat up the globe for several decades. Meanwhile, global emissions continue to rise. "For someone who's got seven grandkids, that scares the hell out of me," Barnett said. "I've had a look at the future, and I don't like it." Here is a quote from Reid Bryson, Emeritus Professor and founding chairman of the University of Wisconsin Department of Meteorology (now the Department of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences) "Well let me give you one fact first. In the first 30 feet of the atmosphere, on the average, outward radiation from the Earth, which is what CO2 is supposed to affect, how much [of the reflected energy] is absorbed by water vapor? In the first 30 feet, 80 percent, okay? ...: And how much is absorbed by carbon dioxide? Eight hundredths of one percent. One one-thousandth as important as water vapor. You can go outside and spit and have the same effect as doubling carbon dioxide." http://xtronics.com/reference/globalwarming.htm If you 're not too close minded you may find the above interesting reading. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:11:38 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote: If present trends continue, the Arctic will be ice free during the summer months as early as 2012. Nowhere did NASA, the AP, or I insist that you sell your big block pickup truck and take up driving a Prius instead. :-) Wnat to know what this is all about Chuck? Here 'ya go. http://investor.nymex.com/releasedet...leaseID=281322 "The broad slate of new environmental products will perfectly complement NYMEX's energy complex, enabling The Green Exchange customers to efficiently manage the cost of reducing their 'carbon footprint.' The Green Exchange expects to focus on both global and regional compliance trading while also building liquidity and demand for the highest quality voluntary standards in the market. Underlying all this will be the ability for all market participants to manage risk and take positions in environmental derivatives markets." "Initially, The Green Exchange intends to offer trading in global carbon-based contracts, such as carbon allowances (EUAs) under the European Union Emissions Trading Scheme, carbon credits (CERs) under the U.N. Clean Development Mechanism, and verified greenhouse gas emission reductions (VERs/VCUs) used in accordance with voluntary carbon standards. The Green Exchange will also offer contracts for U.S. SO2 and NOx emissions allowance trading programs, as well as contracts for national Green-e™ certified voluntary renewable energy certificates (RECs)." There it is - it's all about making money. The more dire warnings and other "climate change" bull****, the more money is to be made. And guess who's going to take it right in the wallet - you, me and other stiffs who will be paying for it in the end. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. Santa will either have to move to the south pole, (where there is still plenty of ice), or take up boating. Maybe he'll participate in rec.boats, and become another one of the posters whose true identities are a mystery. :-) From the news last week, there's not only plenty of ice at the south pole, but it's accumulating by leaps and bounds! Makes one wonder if there's not a little hype going around somewhere. "Unconventional Wisdom A member of the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says he and many other scientists do not see global warming as a developing catastrophe and there is no smoking gun proving that human activity is to blame for the warming that does occur. John Christy is the director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama at Huntsville. He and thousands of others on the U.N. panel share half the Nobel Prize also awarded to Al Gore. But he says he cringes when he hears 100-year weather forecasts when it is incredibly difficult to accurately predict the weather five days from now. He writes in The Wall Street Journal, "Mother Nature simply operates at a level of complexity that is, at this point, beyond the mastery of mere mortals (such as scientists) and the tools available to us." He points out that a recent CNN report on climate change made much of the shrinking Arctic sea ice cover, but did not mention that winter sea ice around Antarctica set a record maximum last month." From: http://tinyurl.com/39xr7v -- John H |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:11:38 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: If present trends continue, the Arctic will be ice free during the summer months as early as 2012. Nowhere did NASA, the AP, or I insist that you sell your big block pickup truck and take up driving a Prius instead. :-) Wnat to know what this is all about Chuck? Here 'ya go. http://investor.nymex.com/releasedet...leaseID=281322 "The broad slate of new environmental products will perfectly complement NYMEX's energy complex, enabling The Green Exchange customers to efficiently manage the cost of reducing their 'carbon footprint.' The Green Exchange expects to focus on both global and regional compliance trading while also building liquidity and demand for the highest quality voluntary standards in the market. Underlying all this will be the ability for all market participants to manage risk and take positions in environmental derivatives markets." "Initially, The Green Exchange intends to offer trading in global carbon-based contracts, such as carbon allowances (EUAs) under the European Union Emissions Trading Scheme, carbon credits (CERs) under the U.N. Clean Development Mechanism, and verified greenhouse gas emission reductions (VERs/VCUs) used in accordance with voluntary carbon standards. The Green Exchange will also offer contracts for U.S. SO2 and NOx emissions allowance trading programs, as well as contracts for national Green-e™ certified voluntary renewable energy certificates (RECs)." There it is - it's all about making money. The more dire warnings and other "climate change" bull****, the more money is to be made. And guess who's going to take it right in the wallet - you, me and other stiffs who will be paying for it in the end. SWS, The problem I have with all of this, is none of us are smart enough, including the climatologist to really understand the complex issues, but if they are right, we are in a world of hurt. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:56:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...n-climate.html And lastly, http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf Do try and read the science instead of the AP. Friggin' Facts!! -- John H |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:14:45 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote: On Dec 12, 5:25?am, wrote: On Dec 12, 5:56 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. http://ff.org/centers/csspp/press/20070302_release.html http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/08/st...khaven-climate... And lastly, http://www.epw.senate.gov/109th/Carter_Testimony.pdf Do try and read the science instead of the AP. Yeah, it is hard to tell which quotes are from NASA, employees of NASA, and the reporter... oh, and a few quotes from some of those 18 (eighteen) scientists.... Wonder who they were, if they worked for NASA, and how the other 10% of scientists in the world feel about it;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The important aspect of the item is that the photos (scientific evidence) are from NASA. There are a lot of folks insisting that anybody who even observes the earth is in a warming trend is somehow "lying for political purposes". Let's hope that doesn't include NASA. :-) No Chuck, the problem is that 'mankind is the cause, and sending money to Al Gore is the cure'. -- John H |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 12:11�pm, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. Santa will either have to move to the south pole, (where there is still plenty of ice), or take up boating. Maybe he'll participate in rec.boats, and become another one of the posters whose true identities are a mystery. :-) From the news last week, there's not only plenty of ice at the south pole, but it's accumulating by leaps and bounds! Makes one wonder if there's not a little hype going around somewhere. "Unconventional Wisdom A member of the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says he and many other scientists do not see global warming as a developing catastrophe and there is no smoking gun proving that human activity is to blame for the warming that does occur. John Christy is the director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama at Huntsville. He and thousands of others on the U.N.. panel share half the Nobel Prize also awarded to Al Gore. But he says he cringes when he hears 100-year weather forecasts when it is incredibly difficult to accurately predict the weather five days from now. He writes in The Wall Street Journal, "Mother Nature simply operates at a level of complexity that is, at this point, beyond the mastery of mere mortals (such as scientists) and the tools available to us." He points out that a recent CNN report on climate change made much of the shrinking Arctic sea ice cover, but did not mention that winter sea ice around Antarctica set a record maximum last month." From:http://tinyurl.com/39xr7v -- John H Nor was this supposed to be a "global warming" thread. Merely an observation that Arctic ice is now melting at a rate that could result in an ice-free north pole by 2012. Bad news for Santa, but good news for sailors with a sense of adventure. Who will be the first to sail over the North pole? :-) |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
"John H." wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. Santa will either have to move to the south pole, (where there is still plenty of ice), or take up boating. Maybe he'll participate in rec.boats, and become another one of the posters whose true identities are a mystery. :-) From the news last week, there's not only plenty of ice at the south pole, but it's accumulating by leaps and bounds! Makes one wonder if there's not a little hype going around somewhere. "Unconventional Wisdom A member of the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says he and many other scientists do not see global warming as a developing catastrophe and there is no smoking gun proving that human activity is to blame for the warming that does occur. John Christy is the director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama at Huntsville. He and thousands of others on the U.N. panel share half the Nobel Prize also awarded to Al Gore. But he says he cringes when he hears 100-year weather forecasts when it is incredibly difficult to accurately predict the weather five days from now. He writes in The Wall Street Journal, "Mother Nature simply operates at a level of complexity that is, at this point, beyond the mastery of mere mortals (such as scientists) and the tools available to us." He points out that a recent CNN report on climate change made much of the shrinking Arctic sea ice cover, but did not mention that winter sea ice around Antarctica set a record maximum last month." From: http://tinyurl.com/39xr7v -- John H I wonder if Mr/Mrs Clause will move their headquarters. :) |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 1:52�pm, "D.Duck" wrote:
"John H." wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. Santa will either have to move to the south pole, (where there is still plenty of ice), or take up boating. Maybe he'll participate in rec.boats, and become another one of the posters whose true identities are a mystery. :-) From the news last week, there's not only plenty of ice at the south pole, but it's accumulating by leaps and bounds! Makes one wonder if there's not a little hype going around somewhere. "Unconventional Wisdom A member of the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says he and many other scientists do not see global warming as a developing catastrophe and there is no smoking gun proving that human activity is to blame for the warming that does occur. John Christy is the director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama at Huntsville. He and thousands of others on the U.N. panel share half the Nobel Prize also awarded to Al Gore. But he says he cringes when he hears 100-year weather forecasts when it is incredibly difficult to accurately predict the weather five days from now. He writes in The Wall Street Journal, "Mother Nature simply operates at a level of complexity that is, at this point, beyond the mastery of mere mortals (such as scientists) and the tools available to us." He points out that a recent CNN report on climate change made much of the shrinking Arctic sea ice cover, but did not mention that winter sea ice around Antarctica set a record maximum last month." From:http://tinyurl.com/39xr7v -- John H I wonder if Mr/Mrs Clause will move their headquarters. �:)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It would seem weird to have Santa Claus headquartered at the South Pole, if only because in the southern hemisphere the Christmas holiday occurs at the summer, rather than the winter solstice. Somehow the image of a guy all wrapped up in a red fur robe and flying through the air on a magic sleigh seems inconsistent with sitting under the palm tree and slathering on sunscreen. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message ... On Dec 12, 1:52?pm, "D.Duck" wrote: "John H." wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:58:13 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: According to that group of left wing nut jobs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, the ice at the north pole (and the rest of the arctic) is melting at a rate that could leave the north end of the globe ice free by 2012. Santa will either have to move to the south pole, (where there is still plenty of ice), or take up boating. Maybe he'll participate in rec.boats, and become another one of the posters whose true identities are a mystery. :-) From the news last week, there's not only plenty of ice at the south pole, but it's accumulating by leaps and bounds! Makes one wonder if there's not a little hype going around somewhere. "Unconventional Wisdom A member of the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says he and many other scientists do not see global warming as a developing catastrophe and there is no smoking gun proving that human activity is to blame for the warming that does occur. John Christy is the director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama at Huntsville. He and thousands of others on the U.N. panel share half the Nobel Prize also awarded to Al Gore. But he says he cringes when he hears 100-year weather forecasts when it is incredibly difficult to accurately predict the weather five days from now. He writes in The Wall Street Journal, "Mother Nature simply operates at a level of complexity that is, at this point, beyond the mastery of mere mortals (such as scientists) and the tools available to us." He points out that a recent CNN report on climate change made much of the shrinking Arctic sea ice cover, but did not mention that winter sea ice around Antarctica set a record maximum last month." From:http://tinyurl.com/39xr7v -- John H I wonder if Mr/Mrs Clause will move their headquarters. ?:)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It would seem weird to have Santa Claus headquartered at the South Pole, if only because in the southern hemisphere the Christmas holiday occurs at the summer, rather than the winter solstice. Somehow the image of a guy all wrapped up in a red fur robe and flying through the air on a magic sleigh seems inconsistent with sitting under the palm tree and slathering on sunscreen. That's easy, just have Congress change the Christmas holiday date. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:16:36 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
I don't think people around here deny there is global warming. The skepticism is how much is due to normal cycles and how much is due to human contributions. Exactly. And all the data points to it being a natural cycle with little or no input from human kind. And then there is this. http://www.910knew.com/pages/carbon.html Based on all this carbon emitting data that the True Believers would like us to believe, we should be all dead by now. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:09:49 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
That's easy, just have Congress change the Christmas holiday date. And make another 3 day weekend. Excellent. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:36:17 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
If you 're not too close minded you may find the above interesting reading. You can't challenge True Believers. Because you will be labeled a "denier" and thus subject to ridicule. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:16:36 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: I don't think people around here deny there is global warming. The skepticism is how much is due to normal cycles and how much is due to human contributions. Exactly. And all the data points to it being a natural cycle with little or no input from human kind. And then there is this. http://www.910knew.com/pages/carbon.html Based on all this carbon emitting data that the True Believers would like us to believe, we should be all dead by now. Now tell me, how would anyone believe a researcher with a name like Adisa Azapagic. The just pronouncing that name would produce a few "tonnes" of CO2. :) |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:03:35 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:16:36 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: I don't think people around here deny there is global warming. The skepticism is how much is due to normal cycles and how much is due to human contributions. Exactly. And all the data points to it being a natural cycle with little or no input from human kind. And then there is this. http://www.910knew.com/pages/carbon.html Based on all this carbon emitting data that the True Believers would like us to believe, we should be all dead by now. Now tell me, how would anyone believe a researcher with a name like Adisa Azapagic. The just pronouncing that name would produce a few "tonnes" of CO2. :) ROTFL!! Sounds like my Border Collie sneezing. :) |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
You can't challenge True Believers. Because you will be labeled a "denier" and thus subject to ridicule. I like how you consistently refer to acceptance of that which you clearly consider to be pure BS in religious terms. ;-) |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 3:34�pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:09:49 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: That's easy, just have Congress change the Christmas holiday date. And make another 3 day weekend. Excellent. Not a bad idea at all, really. We move Washington's birthday all around the calendar to create a 3- day weekend in February- and we have a pretty darn good idea exactly when George Washington was born (don't ask me whether the Georgian or Gregorian calendar happened to be in use when he was born in the early 1700's.....but there was a switch made probably within 50 or 75 years of his birthdate). I think you'd need to look pretty far to find any Christian authority willing to swear (literally) on a stack of Bibles that Jesus was born on December 25, so why not move the birthday celebration to make a three day weekend? There's nothing holy about December 25, it was an arbitrarily selected day. In fact, speaking of holidays, Christmas Day was not a holiday in the United States until 1870 and the same group of people we point to with pride at Thanksgiving, (The Puritans), would put people in jail for celebrating Christmas. It's truly a complicated holiday. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:13:04 -0800, -rick- wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: You can't challenge True Believers. Because you will be labeled a "denier" and thus subject to ridicule. I like how you consistently refer to acceptance of that which you clearly consider to be pure BS in religious terms. ;-) That's because it is a religion. Take a look around at some of the more liberal sites - better yet, go make a post at KOS about global warming being a scam and see how the warming crowd greets you. Makes Muslims seem tame by comparison. :) |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:13:04 -0800, -rick- wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: You can't challenge True Believers. Because you will be labeled a "denier" and thus subject to ridicule. I like how you consistently refer to acceptance of that which you clearly consider to be pure BS in religious terms. ;-) That's because it is a religion. Take a look around at some of the more liberal sites - better yet, go make a post at KOS about global warming being a scam and see how the warming crowd greets you. Makes Muslims seem tame by comparison. :) In the name of Al Gore, Climatologist and the Holy Scientist, AMEN. I am sorry, what were you talking about? |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
On Dec 12, 12:04 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:11:38 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: If present trends continue, the Arctic will be ice free during the summer months as early as 2012. Nowhere did NASA, the AP, or I insist that you sell your big block pickup truck and take up driving a Prius instead. :-) Wnat to know what this is all about Chuck? Here 'ya go. http://investor.nymex.com/releasedet...leaseID=281322 "The broad slate of new environmental products will perfectly complement NYMEX's energy complex, enabling The Green Exchange customers to efficiently manage the cost of reducing their 'carbon footprint.' The Green Exchange expects to focus on both global and regional compliance trading while also building liquidity and demand for the highest quality voluntary standards in the market. Underlying all this will be the ability for all market participants to manage risk and take positions in environmental derivatives markets." "Initially, The Green Exchange intends to offer trading in global carbon-based contracts, such as carbon allowances (EUAs) under the European Union Emissions Trading Scheme, carbon credits (CERs) under the U.N. Clean Development Mechanism, and verified greenhouse gas emission reductions (VERs/VCUs) used in accordance with voluntary carbon standards. The Green Exchange will also offer contracts for U.S. SO2 and NOx emissions allowance trading programs, as well as contracts for national Green-e(tm) certified voluntary renewable energy certificates (RECs)." There it is - it's all about making money. The more dire warnings and other "climate change" bull****, the more money is to be made. And guess who's going to take it right in the wallet - you, me and other stiffs who will be paying for it in the end. So, cutting to the chase....do you believe the NASA satellite photos and other evidence that suggest,"if the recent trend continues the Arctic Ocean could be ice free as early as 2012"......or do you think the administrative branch of the FEDGOV (oversees NASA) is lying to the public in order to set up some economic scheme? I'm not entirely onboard with the "it's all the fault of man and his industry" view......the earth has warmed and cooled in cycles since Day One. However, some of the warming and cooling has had disastrous consequences in the past and if we can exert some influence to moderate a cycle it might be in the best interest of humankind to do so. Global warming, at this point, is like Pascal's wager. Pascal couldn't prove the existence of God, but figured he was safer to bet that God, in some form, existed, lead his life accordingly, (and accept the consequences in the end if he was wrong) than to bet that God in some form didn't exist and face the possible consequences of that position. If we all do a bit to (literally) clean up our act and it turns out that global warming is indeed the liberal political hoax and economic swindle that many of the non-believers insist it has to be, the worst that happens is we leave a cleaner world to upcoming generations. You and I are both avid conservationists, so I am almost entirely sure you have no problem with that concept. If we sit around nay-saying, blaming Al Gore, and ignoring minor little incidents like all of the ice disappearing from the Arctic ocean while we wait for every single scientist in the world to agree that there's a problem- it could then be too late to do anything about it. |
Santa selling his sled. Will need a boat by 2012.
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message ... On Dec 12, 12:04 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:11:38 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: If present trends continue, the Arctic will be ice free during the summer months as early as 2012. Want to know the truth? Here's what's really going on. Follow this link. http://titancast.titantv.com/players...b-db5642ba54d2 |
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