On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 08:46:32 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:38:02 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 18:10:10 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:46:11 -0500, John H.
wrote:

Life was certainly easier and simpler in the days of TriX, PlusX,
KodaChrome II and Kodacolor!

What?

No way.

Sure it was. You spent all your time composing and focusing, knowing
that there was only so much you could do in the "darkroom."

As an old newprint type, I'm fairly sure you worked with a
photographer from time-to-time. And I'm sure that you know of the
dark room tricks used to enhance and sharpen images, degrain and
smooth images or what they did to work on AP/UPI/Rueters fax photos
from events around the world.

Take sharpening for instance. They would develop the negative, then
redevelop a slighty out of focus negative, then combine the two to
sharpen up the image. Or adjust the color eye in particular with
Kodachrome which had a bad feature of non-reproducing true color if
the temp was a little off in the developing solutions. TriX was a
freakin' nightmare unless you had extremely fast lenses and shot wide
open all the time.

Refocusing, double print, masking, using masks as layers to produce
sharper, clearer images and color or introducing new elements into a
composite image - art prints, news prints, etc., etc., etc.

I honestly don't know where you got this idea of "only so much" in the
darkroom. For pete's sake, "Moonride over Hernandez New Mexico" was
altered in several ways.

Allow me to cite from Adam's biography.

"The development of the negative was a painstaking process, being
carried out very slowly to give the maximum control of the image. The
resulting negative was difficult to print and several years after it
was taken the foreground was subjected to a process of chemical
"intensification" that altered it in a way whereby "Printing was a bit
easier thereafter, although it remains a challenge".

The printing of the image was also in itself a highly skilled task
with different areas being "masked" and given more or less exposure
than others until the overall balance of tones was one that resulted
in a satisfactory image. Even differences in batches of what were
supposedly exactly the same type of photographic paper were noticed, a
result of all the variables involved led to the comment, "It is safe
to say that no two prints are precisely the same."

"Now, I see a lot of doctored photos, and 99% of them bore me
because I know the "eye" and "art" had nothing to do with them.

With all due respect, bullfeathers as my Grandfather used to say in
polite company.

You had no clue that I sandbagged you on that image I asked you to
look at - editing images in Photoshop and futzing around with the EXIF
data is child's play.

You had no clue - none, zero, zip, nada.

You are correct in that you usually can tell a "doctored" image
because in most cases, you won't see that in real life - some things
don't mix.

However, I would point you to some of the recent CGI work in which you
can't tell the CGI from the real world and I have an archine of
fantasy images that are composites that I know for a fact you wouldn't
be able to tell if they were doctored or not.

With respect to the minds eye, I point you to this:

http://www.myfourthirds.com/document.php?id=34287

Gene saw this image at a pub in Dublin, only it had a different cast
of characters. He saw, in his mind's eye, a brilliant adaptation
using himself as the cast of characters. Nine images were taken to
produce that one photo, altered, adjusted and composited to produce
the final result.

Gene's mind's eye as a brilliant compositional photographer (and
generally a brilliant photographer period) and his skills working at
manipulating, adjusting, compositing the photo came together to
produce that image.

I won't even begin to introduce you to other photographer's I've been
mentored by over forty years and their work because you clearly have
no appreciation for their "art".

I apologise for the sharp tone, but you ****ed me off by making what
was clearly an uninformed and ignorant statement - in particular for a
old timey print guy.

You should know better.

Thanks for the link. Some great shots there.

All I will say is he has a favorite subject. Your grandkids are much
more interesting to me, and your shot will be remembered by me
longer than anything on that site. It's a personal preference,
but I'm with Harry on doctoring photos beyond some light tweaking.
To me a photo becomes art when it reflects the reality of a special
moment in time and place, and evokes - intentionally or not - emotion.
I found the photos on the above site cold and boring.
As I said, personal preference, and different element move people
differently.
But the greatest shots in history, again personal preference, are the
ones reflecting reality.
A few that come to mind are the flag raising at Iwo Jima, the
depression shot of "mother of 7 children," and more recently the very
"unprofessional" snapshot of the firefighter climbing the tower
staircase on 9/11. His face will haunt me forever.
To each his own. This guy has a very interesting site with a lot of
info, including how he uses Photoshop. Worth looking at by anybody
interested in photography.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/index.htm

--Vic

On Dec 16, 11:51 am, HK wrote:
wrote:
You were lucky to have only the best photographers at your huge
newspaper. You seem to lead a charmed life here. Tell us next how your
Dell was constructed specifically for you by a special team of only
the best assemblers, painstakingly put together by Michael Dell
himself, just for you

In those days, and certainly not because of my presence there as a
reporter and copy editor, the KC Star was considered one of the best
newspapers in the country. It had a very large staff of photographers,
darkroom geniuses and airbrush artists. Along with the St. Louis P-D in
those days, many considered it the *best* training school for young
journalists in the country. I was at The Star for about four years, and
then I was recruited by The Associated Press.

For the first 90 years of its life, including my years there, the Star
was an independent newspaper, and for most of that time it was owned by
its editorial employees. Then the employees decided to sell out and of
course shortly thereafter, after the paper was owned by a big media
corporation, it went downhill.

Such is life in America.

I'm my own Michael Dell. I've built all my own desktop computers for at
least the last decade, usually every other year. If only I could build
them faster...I could go in the computer business and lose money.

Have you been having sex with Herring? You're beginning to sound just
like him, naive, ignorant, and out of touch with reality.

No, no sex with Herring but I was installing networks around the NE in
the early 90's. Built computers for many outfits, architects,
printers, installed POP hardware at retail stores, all custom built
suff, till it got to the point where it was more efficient to by
ready made computers, with legal software and faster components than
anything I could build for the price. I think anyone with their head
out of their butt realizes that the technology available over the
counter is way more than the average guy needs to write political
trolls, photoshop for fun, and post pictures to a dump site of kitty
cats and beached LTP's And all of my software is legal too... But
then again, I actually use my system (s) for business so I try to keep
up on stuff even if I pull your leg here once in a while. I guarantee
I could run circles around you in base windows architecture, Linux,
Apache, Novell, ASP, Miva, PHP, PPP, POP, M/C Visa gateways,
encryption, firewall and port protection, NOC, Blades, Routers, and
about a hundred other business related languages and protocols, even
though I do admit to having never used photoshop. When I want to play,
I use JASC. For color seperatioins to the printer, for business I have
used Corel Draw along with Adobe... But I am just a beginner...

Vic Smith wrote:


All I will say is he has a favorite subject. Your grandkids are much
more interesting to me, and your shot will be remembered by me
longer than anything on that site. It's a personal preference,
but I'm with Harry on doctoring photos beyond some light tweaking.
To me a photo becomes art when it reflects the reality of a special
moment in time and place, and evokes - intentionally or not - emotion.
I found the photos on the above site cold and boring.
As I said, personal preference, and different element move people
differently.
But the greatest shots in history, again personal preference, are the
ones reflecting reality.
A few that come to mind are the flag raising at Iwo Jima, the
depression shot of "mother of 7 children," and more recently the very
"unprofessional" snapshot of the firefighter climbing the tower
staircase on 9/11. His face will haunt me forever.
To each his own. This guy has a very interesting site with a lot of
info, including how he uses Pmhotoshop. Worth looking at by anybody
interested in photography.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/index.htm

--Vic

Vic,

Everyone has their own personal preferences for art, and what moves
them. I personally enjoy a very broad range of styles in music
(everything but rap), paintings, sculpture and photography. But i can
definitely understand when someone doesn't appreciate the same art I
like or can't even understand why I would like it, because I feel that
way when I listen to most Rap.

wrote:
On Dec 16, 11:51 am, HK wrote:
wrote:
You were lucky to have only the best photographers at your huge
newspaper. You seem to lead a charmed life here. Tell us next how your
Dell was constructed specifically for you by a special team of only
the best assemblers, painstakingly put together by Michael Dell
himself, just for you
In those days, and certainly not because of my presence there as a
reporter and copy editor, the KC Star was considered one of the best
newspapers in the country. It had a very large staff of photographers,
darkroom geniuses and airbrush artists. Along with the St. Louis P-D in
those days, many considered it the *best* training school for young
journalists in the country. I was at The Star for about four years, and
then I was recruited by The Associated Press.

For the first 90 years of its life, including my years there, the Star
was an independent newspaper, and for most of that time it was owned by
its editorial employees. Then the employees decided to sell out and of
course shortly thereafter, after the paper was owned by a big media
corporation, it went downhill.

Such is life in America.

I'm my own Michael Dell. I've built all my own desktop computers for at
least the last decade, usually every other year. If only I could build
them faster...I could go in the computer business and lose money.

Have you been having sex with Herring? You're beginning to sound just
like him, naive, ignorant, and out of touch with reality.

No, no sex with Herring but I was installing networks around the NE in
the early 90's. Built computers for many outfits, architects,
printers, installed POP hardware at retail stores, all custom built
suff, till it got to the point where it was more efficient to by
ready made computers, with legal software and faster components than
anything I could build for the price. I think anyone with their head
out of their butt realizes that the technology available over the
counter is way more than the average guy needs to write political
trolls, photoshop for fun, and post pictures to a dump site of kitty
cats and beached LTP's And all of my software is legal too... But
then again, I actually use my system (s) for business so I try to keep
up on stuff even if I pull your leg here once in a while. I guarantee
I could run circles around you in base windows architecture, Linux,
Apache, Novell, ASP, Miva, PHP, PPP, POP, M/C Visa gateways,
encryption, firewall and port protection, NOC, Blades, Routers, and
about a hundred other business related languages and protocols, even
though I do admit to having never used photoshop. When I want to play,
I use JASC. For color seperatioins to the printer, for business I have
used Corel Draw along with Adobe... But I am just a beginner...


I don't take any of this stuff, photo doctoring included, that
seriously. When I need spectacular photos for a client, I hire someone
to take them. I did, however, take all the photos for an issue of a
magazine, and many came out very well. If you like I will snail mail you
a copy. I guarantee, no photoshopping on any of the photos.

On Dec 16, 1:02 pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Dec 16, 11:51 am, HK wrote:
wrote:
You were lucky to have only the best photographers at your huge
newspaper. You seem to lead a charmed life here. Tell us next how your
Dell was constructed specifically for you by a special team of only
the best assemblers, painstakingly put together by Michael Dell
himself, just for you
In those days, and certainly not because of my presence there as a
reporter and copy editor, the KC Star was considered one of the best
newspapers in the country. It had a very large staff of photographers,
darkroom geniuses and airbrush artists. Along with the St. Louis P-D in
those days, many considered it the *best* training school for young
journalists in the country. I was at The Star for about four years, and
then I was recruited by The Associated Press.

For the first 90 years of its life, including my years there, the Star
was an independent newspaper, and for most of that time it was owned by
its editorial employees. Then the employees decided to sell out and of
course shortly thereafter, after the paper was owned by a big media
corporation, it went downhill.

Such is life in America.

I'm my own Michael Dell. I've built all my own desktop computers for at
least the last decade, usually every other year. If only I could build
them faster...I could go in the computer business and lose money.

Have you been having sex with Herring? You're beginning to sound just
like him, naive, ignorant, and out of touch with reality.

No, no sex with Herring but I was installing networks around the NE in
the early 90's. Built computers for many outfits, architects,
printers, installed POP hardware at retail stores, all custom built
suff, till it got to the point where it was more efficient to by
ready made computers, with legal software and faster components than
anything I could build for the price. I think anyone with their head
out of their butt realizes that the technology available over the
counter is way more than the average guy needs to write political
trolls, photoshop for fun, and post pictures to a dump site of kitty
cats and beached LTP's And all of my software is legal too... But
then again, I actually use my system (s) for business so I try to keep
up on stuff even if I pull your leg here once in a while. I guarantee
I could run circles around you in base windows architecture, Linux,
Apache, Novell, ASP, Miva, PHP, PPP, POP, M/C Visa gateways,
encryption, firewall and port protection, NOC, Blades, Routers, and
about a hundred other business related languages and protocols, even
though I do admit to having never used photoshop. When I want to play,
I use JASC. For color seperatioins to the printer, for business I have
used Corel Draw along with Adobe... But I am just a beginner...

I don't take any of this stuff, photo doctoring included, that
seriously. When I need spectacular photos for a client, I hire someone
to take them. I did, however, take all the photos for an issue of a
magazine, and many came out very well. If you like I will snail mail you
a copy. I guarantee, no photoshopping on any of the photos.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well see, time to go watch the professional football league on
television... Then I got to go shoves some ice crystals...

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:33:14 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
[email protected] wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:01:44 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
[email protected] wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:40:18 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

http://www.myfourthirds.com/document.php?id=34287

I like this one:

http://www.myfourthirds.com/document.php?id=28996

Eisboch

gmta
actually both of you are wrong

This is his best one:

http://myfourthirds.com/document.php?id=20697

and for a family "snapshot", this one is a killer:

http://myfourthirds.com/document.php?id=40879




I didn't get that far. That's a nice picture, but not nearly as exciting
as:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../LilMonkey.jpg

is it possible that you are biased?

Fair and balanced. I thought we'd already cleared that up.

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:29:43 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Dec 16, 12:17 pm, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:18:29 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"

[email protected] wrote:
HK wrote:

By the way, that photo you posted yesterday, you did notice I cleaned it
up a bit for you. In the good old days, you could get an effect like you
had that by smearing vaseline on the negative before making a print.

I am wondering if anyone has to two links to these different photos. I
would be interested in seeing how Harry improved upon the original.

If you can't pull up the messages, let me know and I'll dig them up.

Yeah, the link I saw the photo has been taken down...

Harry was probably embarrassed.

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:54:23 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
[email protected] wrote:

John H. wrote:

Now, I downloaded the latest version of IrfanView which will open the NEF
files. But, when opened, all I get is a 'purplescale' picture. Almost like
'greyscale', but tinted purple.

Have you ever visited our nations capitol in the wintertime? It's a
beautiful place. I know where you could stay pretty cheaply!

ps -
That sounds like a great offer, and an enjoyable trip. Let me see if I
can schedule some time off,
but I know I would really enjoy DC when the cherry blossoms are in bloom.

That's a favorite of lot's of people! The local stations keep us pretty
well apprised of the peek bloom date. Bring a camera. There'll be lots of
this: http://tinyurl.com/yqb5v3