Yet Another Tragic Case......
 

On Dec 2, 7:00 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

...







"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
om...

I am just in an ornery mood. Somehow I caught a humdinger of a cold and
feel really lousy.
I can't remember the last time I was sick and it's something I don't
tolerate very well.

Eisboch

Time to make your blood inhabitable to germs. Jack Daniels.

I suspect it's from hanging around 5 walking Petri dishes (my grandkids)
over Thanksgiving.

Eisboch

HEY!!!!!!!!!!!

"walking Petri dish" is my line. Where'd you get that from? You'll be
hearing from my team of lawyers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, and Madonna's profession...

Yet Another Tragic Case......
 

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 16:20:15 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 20:30:25 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 15:19:33 -0500, John H. wrote:

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:59:11 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
news:s036l3l3ssaffo3bd3qh4iomab16mrvdtn@4ax. com...
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:38:34 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
news:6626l35nu1auoptql7ll543hdd2l6l3o85@4a x.com...


I don't know. But I believe the number of severe head injuries due
to
motorcycle accidents would go down.


Of course they would.

Who's head?

Eisboch


You don't need a helmet!
--
John H


I asked you how much money you would save by forcing me to wear a
helmet.
You didn't know.

Thank you for your understanding.

Eisboch


Here are some results of the only extensive study of motorcycle
accidents
that I'm familiar with. Note #'s 45, 48, 49, and 53. Of side note is
number
26 for the anti-countersteering crowd.

Whoops: http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/hurt.html
--
John H


Ya know, why are we discussing this? The most obvious bikers are the ones
with the loudest bikes, and unbeknownst to them, everyone wants them dead.
Everyone. There are no exceptions, except the two or three of you who will
say you are the exceptions. Let them ride without helmets. Hell...let them
ride blindfolded. Who cares?


I don't believe anyone wants them dead. Quieter, yes. Dead, no. It's
funny,
but when I hear of a motorcycle accident on the beltway, there's an extra
twinge that doesn't happen when I hear of a car accident. I'm sure Marines
feel it for Marines, soldiers for soldiers and so on.

--
John H


The safety debate is not center to my opinion on this helmet subject, but in
the spirit of considering other points of view, here's something you may
find of interest.

http://www.bikersrights.com/statisti...goldstein.html

Eisboch


You don't suppose those folks may have been biased, do you? How many
accidents did they actually visit? The Hurt folks visited some 900. Also, I
simply don't believe this statement:

"Previous studies simply divide accident victims into a helmeted group and
non-helmeted group. As a result all differences in fatality rates, injury
rates and injury severities between groups are erroneously attributed to
helmet use."

I don't believe that an amputated leg where the driver wasn't wearing a
helmet was blamed on the lack of a helmet.

The safety debate is center to my opinion, as I don't sell helmets.
Therefore we are approaching this from totally different perspectives. I
suggest we agree to disagree.
--
John H

Yet Another Tragic Case......
 

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:01:21 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 20:30:25 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 15:19:33 -0500, John H. wrote:

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:59:11 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
news:s036l3l3ssaffo3bd3qh4iomab16mrvdtn@4ax. com...
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:38:34 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
news:6626l35nu1auoptql7ll543hdd2l6l3o85@4a x.com...


I don't know. But I believe the number of severe head injuries due
to
motorcycle accidents would go down.


Of course they would.

Who's head?

Eisboch


You don't need a helmet!
--
John H


I asked you how much money you would save by forcing me to wear a
helmet.
You didn't know.

Thank you for your understanding.

Eisboch


Here are some results of the only extensive study of motorcycle
accidents
that I'm familiar with. Note #'s 45, 48, 49, and 53. Of side note is
number
26 for the anti-countersteering crowd.

Whoops: http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/hurt.html
--
John H


Ya know, why are we discussing this? The most obvious bikers are the ones
with the loudest bikes, and unbeknownst to them, everyone wants them dead.
Everyone. There are no exceptions, except the two or three of you who will
say you are the exceptions. Let them ride without helmets. Hell...let them
ride blindfolded. Who cares?


I don't believe anyone wants them dead. Quieter, yes. Dead, no. It's
funny,
but when I hear of a motorcycle accident on the beltway, there's an extra
twinge that doesn't happen when I hear of a car accident. I'm sure Marines
feel it for Marines, soldiers for soldiers and so on.


I believe you're wrong. People who intentionally make their bikes louder do
it to be a pain in the ass. Normal people notice this and respond
accordingly.


I think you're wrong. I think some folks actually believe the argument that
loud bikes are safer bikes. They've been fed this by Harley magazines for
years. Finally, the American Motorcycle Association is taking a stand
against overly loud pipes.

I have somewhat louder mufflers on my Guzzi. I didn't do it to **** anyone
off, but because I like the sound of the pipes. No, they're not
straight-thru.
--
John H

Yet Another Tragic Case......
 

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:32:09 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:42:21 -0000, wrote:

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:26:28 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


And then we got air bags anyway which caused a zillion injuries and
still do.

Not to mention severe allergic reactions as a result of the powder used
as a lubricant to aid inflation.

And I have yet to have an SAE qualified engineer tell me why, if seat
belts are so effective in reducing injuries, we need air bags as
additional restraints.

Remember the '50s cars? Metal dashboards, steering columns like spears,
metal door handles that would slice you like a knife, etc. etc. I'll
take the air bags and seat belts. Looking back, those old cars were
scary. Seat belts are not without problems. I've heard of broken
collarbones and even deaths caused by shock to the heart. Still, I'll
wear them.

Take JohnH as an example (not picking on you John, just making a
point). There's a guy with an abdominal aortic aneurism - does a seat
belt make him safer?

Cardiac aortic tears, hip/pelvis breakage, entrapment, broken
sternums, ribs, shoulders - oh, I could go on and on about the
inherent dangers of seat belts.

In my own case, I was trapped in a burning car after being rear ended
at high speed at a stop light and couldn't get out because both
shoulders were dislocated, dazed and confused and I couldn't get to
the release. Fortunately, there was a by-stander who managed to haul
my ass out of the car.

Haven't worn a seat belt since.

My complaint about seat belts have to do with how use is reported.
Statistics are developed by ambulance run forms and accident reports.
The hitch in the process is that is Fire/EMS/Police ask if seatbelts
were used and the patient says yes, then that is what is reported.
Doesn't matter if the windshield is starred or the victim ejected, it
goes down as yes.

That means that the system is flawed and use over reported.

I think I'd rather be in a seat belt than not, even with the aneurysm.
--
John H

Yet Another Tragic Case......
 

"John H." wrote in message
...


The safety debate is center to my opinion, as I don't sell helmets.
Therefore we are approaching this from totally different perspectives. I
suggest we agree to disagree.
--
John H


Ok, but let me leave you with one final thought.

I don't disagree that wearing a helmet is safer. Leaving the motorcycle in
the garage is even more safe. My thinking, however, is that life is a gift
to be lived within reasonable limits. There are responsibilities that go
with it .... providing for a family, contributing to society, paying taxes
for the common good, etc.

But there's also an aspect of life that involves your personal interests,
sources of enjoyment and choice. In them there are risks, but you should
have the right to evaluate those risks and make personal decisions in terms
of what they mean to you.

It seems to me that if we continue to allow ourselves to be regulated to
death by governments influenced by organizations or groups with their own
agenda and accept being told what risk you can take and how like a bunch of
lemmings, we will end up with a very boring and limited existence.

Eisboch

Yet Another Tragic Case......
 

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 23:57:43 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

But there's also an aspect of life that involves your personal interests,
sources of enjoyment and choice. In them there are risks, but you should
have the right to evaluate those risks and make personal decisions in terms
of what they mean to you.

It seems to me that if we continue to allow ourselves to be regulated to
death by governments influenced by organizations or groups with their own
agenda and accept being told what risk you can take and how like a bunch of
lemmings, we will end up with a very boring and limited existence.

Amen.

Yet Another Tragic Case......
 

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 23:57:43 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .


The safety debate is center to my opinion, as I don't sell helmets.
Therefore we are approaching this from totally different perspectives. I
suggest we agree to disagree.
--
John H


Ok, but let me leave you with one final thought.

I don't disagree that wearing a helmet is safer. Leaving the motorcycle in
the garage is even more safe. My thinking, however, is that life is a gift
to be lived within reasonable limits. There are responsibilities that go
with it .... providing for a family, contributing to society, paying taxes
for the common good, etc.

But there's also an aspect of life that involves your personal interests,
sources of enjoyment and choice. In them there are risks, but you should
have the right to evaluate those risks and make personal decisions in terms
of what they mean to you.

It seems to me that if we continue to allow ourselves to be regulated to
death by governments influenced by organizations or groups with their own
agenda and accept being told what risk you can take and how like a bunch of
lemmings, we will end up with a very boring and limited existence.

Eisboch


It has been left with me.

Two amens.
--
John H

Yet Another Tragic Case......
 

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:13:22 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

There's a direct corollary to boating here. There are minority interest
groups constantly trying to restrict or ban boater's right to enjoy their
interests. Some are well founded, but many are simply attempts to restrict
boaters because "they" don't share the same interest.

Yes, and some boater offended their sensibilities in some way by
running with an open exhaust or throwing a wake over their seawall,
etc.

Yet Another Tragic Case......
 

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:39:19 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

But you have to realize that for every death or serious injury, there are
hundreds of thousands, if not millions, that never crash or have an
accident.

Not to be argumentative but I think that motorcycle accident and death
rates are way higher than that. We average about one motorcycle death
per week here in SWFL.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...ycle-deat.html

"The fatality rates for cruiser and "standard" riders rank the lowest,
at 5.7 deaths per 10,000 registered motorcycles. Touring bikes, such
as the Harley example, averaged 6.5 deaths, with sport bikes totaling
10.7 deaths per 10,000."

Yet Another Tragic Case......
 

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:03:38 -0500, HK wrote:

It should be mandatory. Period.

So you believe that it is a proper role of government to protect
people from themselves?

What do you do when they take away your unsafe, low transom boat?

(for your own good, of course)



Ever the a**, eh, Dwayne?

Just answer my question Hairy. I believe there's a legitimate
philosophical issue at stake:

Do you believe that it is a proper role of government to protect
people from themselves?