Catastrophe was almost miraculously avoided yesterday afternoon after
two small planes collided in the air above Tacoma's Commencement Bay.

One of the planes was able to fly to an airfield in nearby Puyallup,
WA and execute a safe landing. The other plane, with two persons
aboard, was unable to continue flying and the pilot ditched the
aircraft into Commncement Bay. Several people fishing from shore on
the south side of the bay used cell phones to report the crash.

First on the scene was a an approximately 50-foot LOA pleasure boat.
By the time USCG personnel responded to the incident, the pleasure
boaters had recovered the pilot and his mother (the passenger on the
flight). The pilot and passenger were transferred to a local hospital,
where they are being treated for hypothermia. Both are expected to
survive.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:10:00 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

Catastrophe was almost miraculously avoided yesterday afternoon after
two small planes collided in the air above Tacoma's Commencement Bay.

One of the planes was able to fly to an airfield in nearby Puyallup,
WA and execute a safe landing. The other plane, with two persons
aboard, was unable to continue flying and the pilot ditched the
aircraft into Commncement Bay. Several people fishing from shore on
the south side of the bay used cell phones to report the crash.

First on the scene was a an approximately 50-foot LOA pleasure boat.
By the time USCG personnel responded to the incident, the pleasure
boaters had recovered the pilot and his mother (the passenger on the
flight). The pilot and passenger were transferred to a local hospital,
where they are being treated for hypothermia. Both are expected to
survive.

Thank God for pleasure boaters with big boats and big hearts.

Have you seen Seattle's latest attempt to gain fame and notoriety? I think
they're trying to compete with San Francisco.

http://tinyurl.com/3excuu

I suppose Thanksgiving, during which thanks was given to God, will soon go
the way of Christmas. I wonder who will be the first to outlaw it's
celebration in the schools. Looks like Seattle is leading the pack.

On Nov 21, 9:41�am, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:10:00 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
Catastrophe was almost miraculously avoided yesterday afternoon after
two small planes collided in the air above Tacoma's Commencement Bay.

One of the planes was able to fly to an airfield in nearby Puyallup,
WA and execute a safe landing. The other plane, with two persons
aboard, was unable to continue flying and the pilot ditched the
aircraft into Commncement Bay. Several people fishing from shore on
the south side of the bay used cell phones to report the crash.

First on the scene was a an approximately 50-foot LOA pleasure boat.
By the time USCG personnel responded to the incident, the pleasure
boaters had recovered the pilot and his mother (the passenger on the
flight). The pilot and passenger were transferred to a local hospital,
where they are being treated for hypothermia. Both are expected to
survive.

Thank God for pleasure boaters with big boats and big hearts.

Have you seen Seattle's latest attempt to gain fame and notoriety? I think
they're trying to compete with San Francisco.

http://tinyurl.com/3excuu

I suppose Thanksgiving, during which thanks was given to God, will soon go
the way of Christmas. I wonder who will be the first to outlaw it's
celebration in the schools. Looks like Seattle is leading the pack.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The traditional story of Thanksgiving we learned 50 years ago in
school is generally bogus. HOWEVER (!), the reivsionist pop-left
version of Thanksgiving is just as bogus. Those school administrators
should be fired for outright ignorance of history, nevermind the
blatant attempt to
politicize the cirriculum. (Even when the effort is to swing the
cirriculum to the left, liberals should be alarmed. And when the
effort is to swing the cirriculum to the right, even conservatives
should be concerned).

The local Native leader in the area around Plymouth Colony was a man
named Massasoit. Massasoit had a long history of interaction with
Europeans prior to the arrival of the English Separatists and the
tradesmen and servants that accompanied them to the new world. He
distrusted Europeans, and had previously expelled several groups of
them from the area. The earlier waves of European exploration had
brought smallpox to Massasoit's people, however, and the devastating
effects of the disease so reduced his tribe's population that he was
left vulnerable to incursions from the rival group, the Naragansetts.

Massasoit sent an English speaking spy (Tsquantum) to live among the
new white people and learn as much as he could about them.
One of the funniest mistruths about the Pilgrims in America is the
Tsquantum supposedly showed the settlers the "old Indian trick" of
fertilizing corn hils with dead fish. In reality, the Massachusett
people never fertilized with fish.... this is a practice that
Tsquantum first observed during his years of captivity on the European
mainland but was not common in England and Holland, where the
Separatists were from.

Eventually Massasoit concluded that the new arrivals were of no
particular military threat. Their muskets were not as accurate as a
bow and arrow, and actually had less range. The new Europeans were
obviously ill equipped to survive in the new environment without
native support, and seemed unable or unlikely to want to expand into
additional territory. (Big mistake, Massasoit). While he had the
capability to massacre or expel the colonists at will- Massasoit
decided that an alliance, even if temporary, with the Europeans would
reestablish the political power he had lost when so much of his
population had died off from smallpox.

Those colonists who had survived the first winter, spring, and summer
in the New World and those of Massasoit's people who had survived the
smallpox gathered for a common meal to celebrate the new military
alliance between Massasoit and the Europeans.

Author Charles C. Mann ("1491") describes the first thanksgiving in
this paragraph:

By fall the settler's situation was secure enough that they held a
feast of thanksgiving. Massasoit showed up with ninety people, most of
them young men with weapons. The PIlgrim militia responded by marching
around and firing their guns in the air in a manner intended to convey
menace. Gratified, both sides sat down, ate a lot of food, and
complained about the Narrangansett. Ecce; Thanksgiving.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:20:29 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Nov 21, 9:41?am, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:10:00 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
Catastrophe was almost miraculously avoided yesterday afternoon after
two small planes collided in the air above Tacoma's Commencement Bay.

One of the planes was able to fly to an airfield in nearby Puyallup,
WA and execute a safe landing. The other plane, with two persons
aboard, was unable to continue flying and the pilot ditched the
aircraft into Commncement Bay. Several people fishing from shore on
the south side of the bay used cell phones to report the crash.

First on the scene was a an approximately 50-foot LOA pleasure boat.
By the time USCG personnel responded to the incident, the pleasure
boaters had recovered the pilot and his mother (the passenger on the
flight). The pilot and passenger were transferred to a local hospital,
where they are being treated for hypothermia. Both are expected to
survive.

Thank God for pleasure boaters with big boats and big hearts.

Have you seen Seattle's latest attempt to gain fame and notoriety? I think
they're trying to compete with San Francisco.

http://tinyurl.com/3excuu

I suppose Thanksgiving, during which thanks was given to God, will soon go
the way of Christmas. I wonder who will be the first to outlaw it's
celebration in the schools. Looks like Seattle is leading the pack.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The traditional story of Thanksgiving we learned 50 years ago in
school is generally bogus. HOWEVER (!), the reivsionist pop-left
version of Thanksgiving is just as bogus. Those school administrators
should be fired for outright ignorance of history, nevermind the
blatant attempt to
politicize the cirriculum. (Even when the effort is to swing the
cirriculum to the left, liberals should be alarmed. And when the
effort is to swing the cirriculum to the right, even conservatives
should be concerned).

The local Native leader in the area around Plymouth Colony was a man
named Massasoit. Massasoit had a long history of interaction with
Europeans prior to the arrival of the English Separatists and the
tradesmen and servants that accompanied them to the new world. He
distrusted Europeans, and had previously expelled several groups of
them from the area. The earlier waves of European exploration had
brought smallpox to Massasoit's people, however, and the devastating
effects of the disease so reduced his tribe's population that he was
left vulnerable to incursions from the rival group, the Naragansetts.

Massasoit sent an English speaking spy (Tsquantum) to live among the
new white people and learn as much as he could about them.
One of the funniest mistruths about the Pilgrims in America is the
Tsquantum supposedly showed the settlers the "old Indian trick" of
fertilizing corn hils with dead fish. In reality, the Massachusett
people never fertilized with fish.... this is a practice that
Tsquantum first observed during his years of captivity on the European
mainland but was not common in England and Holland, where the
Separatists were from.

Eventually Massasoit concluded that the new arrivals were of no
particular military threat. Their muskets were not as accurate as a
bow and arrow, and actually had less range. The new Europeans were
obviously ill equipped to survive in the new environment without
native support, and seemed unable or unlikely to want to expand into
additional territory. (Big mistake, Massasoit). While he had the
capability to massacre or expel the colonists at will- Massasoit
decided that an alliance, even if temporary, with the Europeans would
reestablish the political power he had lost when so much of his
population had died off from smallpox.

Those colonists who had survived the first winter, spring, and summer
in the New World and those of Massasoit's people who had survived the
smallpox gathered for a common meal to celebrate the new military
alliance between Massasoit and the Europeans.

Author Charles C. Mann ("1491") describes the first thanksgiving in
this paragraph:

By fall the settler's situation was secure enough that they held a
feast of thanksgiving. Massasoit showed up with ninety people, most of
them young men with weapons. The PIlgrim militia responded by marching
around and firing their guns in the air in a manner intended to convey
menace. Gratified, both sides sat down, ate a lot of food, and
complained about the Narrangansett. Ecce; Thanksgiving.

A source a little closer to the event perhaps:

http://members.aol.com/calebj/mourt6.html

"And although it be not always so plentiful as it was at this time with us,
yet by the goodness of God, we are so far from want that we often wish you
partakers of our plenty."

On Nov 21, 9:34�am, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:20:29 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Nov 21, 9:41?am, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:10:00 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
Catastrophe was almost miraculously avoided yesterday afternoon after
two small planes collided in the air above Tacoma's Commencement Bay.

One of the planes was able to fly to an airfield in nearby Puyallup,
WA and execute a safe landing. The other plane, with two persons
aboard, was unable to continue flying and the pilot ditched the
aircraft into Commncement Bay. Several people fishing from shore on
the south side of the bay used cell phones to report the crash.

First on the scene was a an approximately 50-foot LOA pleasure boat.
By the time USCG personnel responded to the incident, the pleasure
boaters had recovered the pilot and his mother (the passenger on the
flight). The pilot and passenger were transferred to a local hospital,
where they are being treated for hypothermia. Both are expected to
survive.

Thank God for pleasure boaters with big boats and big hearts.

Have you seen Seattle's latest attempt to gain fame and notoriety? I think
they're trying to compete with San Francisco.

http://tinyurl.com/3excuu

I suppose Thanksgiving, during which thanks was given to God, will soon go
the way of Christmas. I wonder who will be the first to outlaw it's
celebration in the schools. Looks like Seattle is leading the pack.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The traditional story of Thanksgiving we learned 50 years ago in
school is generally bogus. HOWEVER (!), the reivsionist pop-left
version of Thanksgiving is just as bogus. Those school administrators
should be fired for outright ignorance of history, nevermind the
blatant attempt to
politicize the cirriculum. (Even when the effort is to swing the
cirriculum to the left, liberals should be alarmed. And when the
effort is to swing the cirriculum to the right, even conservatives
should be concerned).

The local Native leader in the area around Plymouth Colony was a man
named Massasoit. Massasoit had a long history of interaction with
Europeans prior to the arrival of the English Separatists and the
tradesmen and servants that accompanied them to the new world. He
distrusted Europeans, and had previously expelled several groups of
them from the area. The earlier waves of European exploration had
brought smallpox to Massasoit's people, however, and the devastating
effects of the disease so reduced his tribe's population that he was
left vulnerable to incursions from the rival group, the Naragansetts.

Massasoit sent an English speaking spy (Tsquantum) to live among the
new white people and learn as much as he could about them.
One of the funniest mistruths about the Pilgrims in America is the
Tsquantum supposedly showed the settlers the "old Indian trick" of
fertilizing corn hils with dead fish. In reality, the Massachusett
people never fertilized with fish.... this is a practice that
Tsquantum first observed during his years of captivity on the European
mainland but was not common in England and Holland, where the
Separatists were from.

Eventually Massasoit concluded that the new arrivals were of no
particular military threat. Their muskets were not as accurate as a
bow and arrow, and actually had less range. The new Europeans were
obviously ill equipped to survive in the new environment without
native support, and seemed unable or unlikely to want to expand into
additional territory. (Big mistake, Massasoit). While he had the
capability to massacre or expel the colonists at will- Massasoit
decided that an alliance, even if temporary, with the Europeans would
reestablish the political power he had lost when so much of his
population had died off from smallpox.

Those colonists who had survived the first winter, spring, and summer
in the New World and those of Massasoit's people who had survived the
smallpox gathered for a common meal to celebrate the new military
alliance between Massasoit and the Europeans.

Author Charles C. Mann ("1491") describes the first thanksgiving in
this paragraph:

By fall the settler's situation was secure enough that they held a
feast of thanksgiving. Massasoit showed up with ninety people, most of
them young men with weapons. The PIlgrim militia responded by marching
around and firing their guns in the air in a manner intended to convey
menace. Gratified, both sides sat down, ate a lot of food, and
complained about the Narrangansett. Ecce; Thanksgiving.

A source a little closer to the event perhaps:

http://members.aol.com/calebj/mourt6.html

"And although it be not always so plentiful as it was at this time with us,
yet by the goodness of God, we are so far from want that we often wish you
partakers of our plenty."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some of the Europeans were famous for ascribing everything to God.
Particularly in diaries, letters, etc.

I don't dispute that many of the Plymouth Colonists opined that it was
God's grace alone that sustained them through the first critical
months.
Some of the Europeans even praised God for the measles, smallpox, and
other epidemics that "cleared away the heathen population to prepare
the land for us." Wasn't all that unlike the view the Hebrews took
when they slaughtered the inhabitants of towns and villages in the
"Promised Land." after the Exodus from Egypt. The old stories in the
Bible say that God led the Hebrew armies to victory, and even
specifically demanded the slaughter of women, children, cattle, etc.

Had we been able to interview any of the 90 natives participating in
the feast, I doubt that even a single one of them would have had a
clear concept of God as interpreted by the European newcomers. Most
native societies were highly religious, but a different view of diety
and the supernatural had naturally evolved in this different society
and environment.

The original feast would not have been possible without the natives,
(or at least would not be the event memorialized in history) and none
of them were thanking the European understanding of God. Most of them
likely felt they were receiving thanks for helping the new colonists
survive in the strange environment and for allowing the new colonists
to remain, largely unmolested, in their territory.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...

The original feast would not have been possible without the natives,
(or at least would not be the event memorialized in history) and none
of them were thanking the European understanding of God. Most of them
likely felt they were receiving thanks for helping the new colonists
survive in the strange environment and for allowing the new colonists
to remain, largely unmolested, in their territory.


Every year at Plimoth Plantation (about 12 miles south of my house) they
re-enact the original "Thanksgiving". And every year the United American
Indians of New England (UAINE) stage a protest, sometimes with violent
results.

http://www.teachervision.fen.com/tha...tory/2558.html

Eisboch

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:15:17 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Nov 21, 9:34?am, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:20:29 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Nov 21, 9:41?am, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:10:00 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
Catastrophe was almost miraculously avoided yesterday afternoon after
two small planes collided in the air above Tacoma's Commencement Bay.

One of the planes was able to fly to an airfield in nearby Puyallup,
WA and execute a safe landing. The other plane, with two persons
aboard, was unable to continue flying and the pilot ditched the
aircraft into Commncement Bay. Several people fishing from shore on
the south side of the bay used cell phones to report the crash.

First on the scene was a an approximately 50-foot LOA pleasure boat.
By the time USCG personnel responded to the incident, the pleasure
boaters had recovered the pilot and his mother (the passenger on the
flight). The pilot and passenger were transferred to a local hospital,
where they are being treated for hypothermia. Both are expected to
survive.

Thank God for pleasure boaters with big boats and big hearts.

Have you seen Seattle's latest attempt to gain fame and notoriety? I think
they're trying to compete with San Francisco.

http://tinyurl.com/3excuu

I suppose Thanksgiving, during which thanks was given to God, will soon go
the way of Christmas. I wonder who will be the first to outlaw it's
celebration in the schools. Looks like Seattle is leading the pack.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The traditional story of Thanksgiving we learned 50 years ago in
school is generally bogus. HOWEVER (!), the reivsionist pop-left
version of Thanksgiving is just as bogus. Those school administrators
should be fired for outright ignorance of history, nevermind the
blatant attempt to
politicize the cirriculum. (Even when the effort is to swing the
cirriculum to the left, liberals should be alarmed. And when the
effort is to swing the cirriculum to the right, even conservatives
should be concerned).

The local Native leader in the area around Plymouth Colony was a man
named Massasoit. Massasoit had a long history of interaction with
Europeans prior to the arrival of the English Separatists and the
tradesmen and servants that accompanied them to the new world. He
distrusted Europeans, and had previously expelled several groups of
them from the area. The earlier waves of European exploration had
brought smallpox to Massasoit's people, however, and the devastating
effects of the disease so reduced his tribe's population that he was
left vulnerable to incursions from the rival group, the Naragansetts.

Massasoit sent an English speaking spy (Tsquantum) to live among the
new white people and learn as much as he could about them.
One of the funniest mistruths about the Pilgrims in America is the
Tsquantum supposedly showed the settlers the "old Indian trick" of
fertilizing corn hils with dead fish. In reality, the Massachusett
people never fertilized with fish.... this is a practice that
Tsquantum first observed during his years of captivity on the European
mainland but was not common in England and Holland, where the
Separatists were from.

Eventually Massasoit concluded that the new arrivals were of no
particular military threat. Their muskets were not as accurate as a
bow and arrow, and actually had less range. The new Europeans were
obviously ill equipped to survive in the new environment without
native support, and seemed unable or unlikely to want to expand into
additional territory. (Big mistake, Massasoit). While he had the
capability to massacre or expel the colonists at will- Massasoit
decided that an alliance, even if temporary, with the Europeans would
reestablish the political power he had lost when so much of his
population had died off from smallpox.

Those colonists who had survived the first winter, spring, and summer
in the New World and those of Massasoit's people who had survived the
smallpox gathered for a common meal to celebrate the new military
alliance between Massasoit and the Europeans.

Author Charles C. Mann ("1491") describes the first thanksgiving in
this paragraph:

By fall the settler's situation was secure enough that they held a
feast of thanksgiving. Massasoit showed up with ninety people, most of
them young men with weapons. The PIlgrim militia responded by marching
around and firing their guns in the air in a manner intended to convey
menace. Gratified, both sides sat down, ate a lot of food, and
complained about the Narrangansett. Ecce; Thanksgiving.

A source a little closer to the event perhaps:

http://members.aol.com/calebj/mourt6.html

"And although it be not always so plentiful as it was at this time with us,
yet by the goodness of God, we are so far from want that we often wish you
partakers of our plenty."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some of the Europeans were famous for ascribing everything to God.
Particularly in diaries, letters, etc.

I don't dispute that many of the Plymouth Colonists opined that it was
God's grace alone that sustained them through the first critical
months.
Some of the Europeans even praised God for the measles, smallpox, and
other epidemics that "cleared away the heathen population to prepare
the land for us." Wasn't all that unlike the view the Hebrews took
when they slaughtered the inhabitants of towns and villages in the
"Promised Land." after the Exodus from Egypt. The old stories in the
Bible say that God led the Hebrew armies to victory, and even
specifically demanded the slaughter of women, children, cattle, etc.

Had we been able to interview any of the 90 natives participating in
the feast, I doubt that even a single one of them would have had a
clear concept of God as interpreted by the European newcomers. Most
native societies were highly religious, but a different view of diety
and the supernatural had naturally evolved in this different society
and environment.

The original feast would not have been possible without the natives,
(or at least would not be the event memorialized in history) and none
of them were thanking the European understanding of God. Most of them
likely felt they were receiving thanks for helping the new colonists
survive in the strange environment and for allowing the new colonists
to remain, largely unmolested, in their territory.

Chuck, I think you completely missed the point.

On Nov 21, 12:41 pm, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:10:00 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
Catastrophe was almost miraculously avoided yesterday afternoon after
two small planes collided in the air above Tacoma's Commencement Bay.

One of the planes was able to fly to an airfield in nearby Puyallup,
WA and execute a safe landing. The other plane, with two persons
aboard, was unable to continue flying and the pilot ditched the
aircraft into Commncement Bay. Several people fishing from shore on
the south side of the bay used cell phones to report the crash.

First on the scene was a an approximately 50-foot LOA pleasure boat.
By the time USCG personnel responded to the incident, the pleasure
boaters had recovered the pilot and his mother (the passenger on the
flight). The pilot and passenger were transferred to a local hospital,
where they are being treated for hypothermia. Both are expected to
survive.

Thank God for pleasure boaters with big boats and big hearts.

Have you seen Seattle's latest attempt to gain fame and notoriety? I think
they're trying to compete with San Francisco.

http://tinyurl.com/3excuu

I suppose Thanksgiving, during which thanks was given to God, will soon go
the way of Christmas. I wonder who will be the first to outlaw it's
celebration in the schools. Looks like Seattle is leading the pack

The deeper the blue, the more intolerant they are. These haters look
for excuses to hate, Funny how they cluster and ferment in closed
minded little communities...

wrote:

Have you seen Seattle's latest attempt to gain fame and notoriety? I think
they're trying to compete with San Francisco.

http://tinyurl.com/3excuu

I suppose Thanksgiving, during which thanks was given to God, will soon go
the way of Christmas. I wonder who will be the first to outlaw it's
celebration in the schools. Looks like Seattle is leading the pack

The deeper the blue, the more intolerant they are. These haters look
for excuses to hate, Funny how they cluster and ferment in closed
minded little communities...

It is easy to understand why many Native Americans would consider the
white man holiday of "Thanksgiving" anathema, since the white man
invasion of the North American continent resulted in the wholesale
slaughter of Native Americans, and the death of their various cultures.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:26:09 -0500, HK wrote:

wrote:

Have you seen Seattle's latest attempt to gain fame and notoriety? I think
they're trying to compete with San Francisco.

http://tinyurl.com/3excuu

I suppose Thanksgiving, during which thanks was given to God, will soon go
the way of Christmas. I wonder who will be the first to outlaw it's
celebration in the schools. Looks like Seattle is leading the pack

The deeper the blue, the more intolerant they are. These haters look
for excuses to hate, Funny how they cluster and ferment in closed
minded little communities...

It is easy to understand why many Native Americans would consider the
white man holiday of "Thanksgiving" anathema, since the white man
invasion of the North American continent resulted in the wholesale
slaughter of Native Americans, and the death of their various cultures.

Norway's calling, Harry. Those Vikings were sweethearts!
--
John H