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GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
Ernest Scribbler wrote:
wrote That's only 47k miles to break even. Most people these days with decent maintenence can expect to get 4 or five times that, making it a very good value. That's not the break even point, that's the point at which the hybrid has burned $5000 worth of gas. You've saved less than $2K at that point. The point where you save the full $5000 worth of $3/gallon gas by burning it at 28.2MPG instead of 20-22MPG comes somewhere in the 160-210,000 mile range, according to my mad math skilz. But as Chuck points out, it's not all about the math. The Toyota 4Runner is a far better buy than that, excuse me, really ugly Lexus. Also, the Lexus tow capacity is only 3500 pounds, about the same as my Lambretta. |
GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 23, 6:39?am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in oglegroups.com... On Oct 22, 11:29?am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote: "Chuck Gould" Fuel economy is reputed to be about 25% better than gasoline-powered trucks with equal towing capacity. mmm hmmmm. db My personal experience with the 400H indicates that hybrid technology can indeed improve gas mileage. Our 400H dramatically outperforms the standard V6 equivalent (especially in acceleration), and with the trip computer on for a variety of in town and highway driving last weekend we realized a genuine 28.2 mpg. EPA fantasies aside, I think we would have been lucky to get much more than about 20-22 mpg with the slower, orthodox V6. I'm not sure that the ECVT transmission is heavy duty enough for extremely large loads, but for small trailer boats under 5-6,000 pounds the hybrid might be a workable alternative. It would at least bear looking into. I like the technology and am excited to check out the vehicle but have heard *some* complain thier prius' not living up to the (mpg) hype. Other's are pushing the mpg envelope by altering their driving habits. YMMV. db- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Based on our experience with the 400H, I can attest that driving habits and style make an enormous difference in the mileage realized with a hybrid, just as they do with an orthodox gasoline car. My wife gets about 3 mpg less than I do, and it's primarily because her style reflects her "type A" personality. :-) Funny how that works. I used to drive a Chevy 2500HD as my daily driver. When gas hit $3.00/gal a couple years ago, I went out and bought a used Honda civic just run around in. I hardly ever take the Chevy out of the garage any more. The last time I had it inspected the guy said "You know you drove less than 4000 miles last year??" I only drive it now to pull the camper/boat. I calculated it would take about 2.5 years in gas savings to pay for the Honda. We're getting there...the gravy will come soon. That thing gets 35+ highway. :-) db |
GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
Chuck Gould wrote:
- Show quoted text - Based on our experience with the 400H, I can attest that driving habits and style make an enormous difference in the mileage realized with a hybrid, just as they do with an orthodox gasoline car. My wife gets about 3 mpg less than I do, and it's primarily because her style reflects her "type A" personality. :-) Chuck, My concern has always been the life of the batteries. They are guessing they are good for 100,000 and then it will cost $5000 to replace them, which I would assume would have a major impact on their resale value. Have you heard any new info about the life and cost to replace the batteries? |
GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
Everything I have read says the average driver will never recoup the extra
money spend on a hybrid in gasoline savings. Wake up. It's not just about saving the money, it's also about BURNING LESS FUEL. |
GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
Where the hybrid pickup truck has some promise, IMO, is when it is
running empty or without a trailer. How many people settle for a 10-12 mpg pickup truck simply because they need to tow a boat or haul a load of construction materials a dozen times every summer? Sure, the truck may get only 6-8 mpg while towing, hybrid or not. But if during the 90- some percent of the time most people operate without a trailer and are running empty the truck can realize 16 mpg instead of 12 that represents a significant savings. Multiply that by 20 or 30 million vehicles and pretty soon we can tell the Arabian Oil Sheiks to shove it. :-) EXACTLY. |
GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
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GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
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GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
"Bill Kearney" wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote in message t... Everything I have read says the average driver will never recoup the extra money spend on a hybrid in gasoline savings. Wake up. It's not just about saving the money, it's also about BURNING LESS FUEL. But that should come after safety and suitability. I bet a F150 Lariat with all the towing options, 4x4 for the slippery ramps etc. is a whole lot safer with a 2000 lb load than this hybrid is. Better yet, F350 Diesel. And it isn't going to need new batteries just outside of warranty. Nor will I crawl to 30mph up a hill obstructing others. Being well powered for the load it is less likely to need expensive and complex repairs. If it lasts longer, it is green in that not as many are needed to be built. (Batteries are toxic inside). I like recyclable steel. More steel than plastic inside is better "green" vehicle. They tend to last longer too. Less cadmium, lithium and lead is better. |
GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
"D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote in message ... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 23, 6:39?am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in oglegroups.com... On Oct 22, 11:29?am, "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote: "Chuck Gould" Fuel economy is reputed to be about 25% better than gasoline-powered trucks with equal towing capacity. mmm hmmmm. db My personal experience with the 400H indicates that hybrid technology can indeed improve gas mileage. Our 400H dramatically outperforms the standard V6 equivalent (especially in acceleration), and with the trip computer on for a variety of in town and highway driving last weekend we realized a genuine 28.2 mpg. EPA fantasies aside, I think we would have been lucky to get much more than about 20-22 mpg with the slower, orthodox V6. I'm not sure that the ECVT transmission is heavy duty enough for extremely large loads, but for small trailer boats under 5-6,000 pounds the hybrid might be a workable alternative. It would at least bear looking into. I like the technology and am excited to check out the vehicle but have heard *some* complain thier prius' not living up to the (mpg) hype. Other's are pushing the mpg envelope by altering their driving habits. YMMV. db- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Based on our experience with the 400H, I can attest that driving habits and style make an enormous difference in the mileage realized with a hybrid, just as they do with an orthodox gasoline car. My wife gets about 3 mpg less than I do, and it's primarily because her style reflects her "type A" personality. :-) Funny how that works. I used to drive a Chevy 2500HD as my daily driver. When gas hit $3.00/gal a couple years ago, I went out and bought a used Honda civic just run around in. I hardly ever take the Chevy out of the garage any more. The last time I had it inspected the guy said "You know you drove less than 4000 miles last year??" I only drive it now to pull the camper/boat. I calculated it would take about 2.5 years in gas savings to pay for the Honda. We're getting there...the gravy will come soon. That thing gets 35+ highway. That is actually the smart way to go. One good fuel efficient for the every day and a safe real truck to tow by. |
GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
Not the cite I was looking for (can't remember where I read it) but this
one makes the same point: "Green" technology autos actually cost more to manufacture and use more total energy during the lifetime of the auto than traditional designs. http://equityprivate.typepad.com/ep/...ng_below_.html Quoting one paragraph: "For many hybrid vehicles 25% to 30% of the life cycle energy expenditure is consumed in raw material production and manufacture- this is much higher than in non-hybrid vehicles. For foreign built cars this means that emissions in the country of use (the United States, say) are not being eliminated, but rather transferred to the country of manufacture. Next time a hybrid driver looks smug feel free to remind them that they are likely dumping their emissions into the second or third world. What kind of pig subjugates the peoples of Mexico and endangers their health to look "green" for their suburban neighbors and smirks about it? " ------------------------------------------------ Eisboch |
GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:25:57 -0400, Eisboch wrote:
Not the cite I was looking for (can't remember where I read it) but this one makes the same point: "Green" technology autos actually cost more to manufacture and use more total energy during the lifetime of the auto than traditional designs. http://equityprivate.typepad.com/ep/...ng_below_.html Quoting one paragraph: "For many hybrid vehicles 25% to 30% of the life cycle energy expenditure is consumed in raw material production and manufacture- this is much higher than in non-hybrid vehicles. For foreign built cars this means that emissions in the country of use (the United States, say) are not being eliminated, but rather transferred to the country of manufacture. Next time a hybrid driver looks smug feel free to remind them that they are likely dumping their emissions into the second or third world. What kind of pig subjugates the peoples of Mexico and endangers their health to look "green" for their suburban neighbors and smirks about it? " ------------------------------------------------ Eisboch Interesting article, one can easily mistake gas mileage for the total energy footprint, but I would also be quite careful about putting to much weight on that article. That study hasn't been peer reviewed, and some of it's assumptions are suspect. An example, the Hummer H1 is assumed to travel 379,000 miles, while the Prius is assumed to travel 109,000 miles. Also, development energy costs, which are included in the study, will be of a heavier weight for new technology spread over fewer cars, than older technology spread over many cars. While I would agree, that when thinking green, the total energy footprint is the important number, one has to be careful how that number is reached. Pacific Institute did a rebuttal to the Dust to Dust study. http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integr...r_vs_prius.pdf |
GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
On Oct 24, 11:23 am, " JimH" ask wrote:
"Bill Kearney" wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote in message t... Everything I have read says the average driver will never recoup the extra money spend on a hybrid in gasoline savings. Wake up. It's not just about saving the money, it's also about BURNING LESS FUEL. I take it you own a sail boat and not a power boat. Holy crap! First he didn't say it's all about burning less fuel, he said it's ALSO about burning less fuel. Example for the narrow minded: If he does own a power boat, but buys a high efficiency furnace and A/ C, he's using less fuel. Same if he buys a hybrid car. He didn't say it was about burning no fuel, just less. It's simple, and it's common sense. Good luck with it...... |
GM introducing hybrid pickups,, 6000 lb tow capacity
On Oct 22, 3:57 pm, Chuck Gould wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:31?am, "Ernest Scribbler" wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote You will be able to buy a half ton pickup from GM, rated for 6000 lb towing capacity, in the 2008 model year. Whoah. I'm getting a huge raise? Or hitting the lottery? You as in the group sense, not the specific. Prices reputedly "start" at under $40,000, and if I'm not mistaken that's not an exceptionally high price for a new full size truck. I'm not saying I'm old school, but I'm still leary of a gm hybrid. Toyotaa or honda? that's different. But over the past few decades, GM has done plenty of experimenting ont he public. a whole lot of PR work, to make scrap metal sing. examples: Vega. "Siliconeized aluminum block. great light engine that was worn out in 25,000 mi or less, and car came pre-rusted. Cadillac 8-6-4 ingenius idea of shutting off valve train so that the engine could cruise on 4 cyl. at road speed and would vary the power and fuel economy, that is untill the engine caught on fire. 1978 GM computerized ignition Push it more than you drive it. 5.7 Olds diesel (ahem) 6.2 GM diesel (ahem *cough*) Cadillacs 4.1 aluminum engine complete with no camshaft bearings. aluminum would wear, oil pressure would drop, nothing thatt about $3800.00 couldn't cure, But they consistantly recieved the Golden Caliber" (Yellow Pincher) award. Go figure... about any 80's GM auto, doors hinges came factory pre-worn, and door handles were pre broken. fading paint came standard equipment, but mylar chromie doo-dads worked pretty good... for a while. GM's idea seemed like "Here's what we have, lump it or leave it" I like GM products actually, but only after they've proven themselves after a couple years. But it seems like in many ways, their inovation out weighs their practical reasonability. GM seems to me like their philosophy was to entice the consumer to "be the first one on your block to" be laughed at. |
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