Reminds me a bit of the time I was cruising along and the
throttle handle came off in my hand...my own damned fault
of course.

As for carrying tools & such "even on an new boat" I am reminded
of what a pilot friend once told me: The most dangerous time to
fly an aitcraft (from a mechanical perspective) is just before or
JUST AFTER maintenence is due. Obviously, if you are nearing
a maintenence period then something is more likely to be going
wrong. But also just after work is done there is a high likelyhood
that something was not hooked back up correctly or some tool was
left behind in a bad spot or some fluid was not replaces, etc., etc.

Seems that would apply to anything "new" too. New is probably
one of those times when the problems & bugs will show up.

Thanks for the story. Entertaining and made me give a little
thought to what could go wrong with my steering.

Thanks for the story. Entertaining and made me give a little
thought to what could go wrong with my steering.


Got a call this PM from the local rep. Seems that the riggers should have used
100# reinforced hose rather than 50# plastic tubing with the large 225HP
Hondas. The boat is going to be re-rigged right after the holiday, with the
proper hydraulics.

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:56:57 -0700, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:


Yup - I've USED my "emergency tiller" and it's not that bad. I'd say at
least basic tools and spares of critical items should be as required as a
PFD.

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

We got out the emergency tiller on my bud's Amel Sharpi ketch last
Sunday, just to see how it worked. You lift up the compartment hatch
under the aft cabin bedding and the rudder post is right inside.
There's a shaft that fits to the top of the square rudder post and
goes up through a hole in the cabin roof after you slide a little
hatch cover over to expose the hole. The tiller bolts easily to the
top of this long shaft pulling against the hole's bearing surface.

Though it looks funnier than hell sitting on top of the cabin steering
this 41' center cockpit ketch, it was very easy and functional to
use......(c;

We're installing a new B&G H1000 Pilot autopilot into the boat. The
electrically-powered actuator steers directly to the end of the
bellcrank on the rudder post. You can feel some resistance as you
steer the big wheel by hand as it pumps the oil around in the
actuator. The mechanic that did the mechanical installation made a
kind of trailer-hitch-looking heavy metal adapter to it. Very
ingenious installation. B&G has a rudder position sensor that
measures the position of the plunger in the main actuator...a separate
unit. All I/O will be done through the B&G NMEA adapter to
it....including rudder position, I hope. We'll see.



Larry W4CSC

Isn't it becoming more practical by the day to make
Iraq's desert the new World Nuclear Waste Disposal Site?

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:00:20 +0000, Gould 0738 wrote:

Thanks for the story. Entertaining and made me give a little
thought to what could go wrong with my steering.


Got a call this PM from the local rep. Seems that the riggers should have used
100# reinforced hose rather than 50# plastic tubing with the large 225HP
Hondas. The boat is going to be re-rigged right after the holiday, with the
proper hydraulics.

Huuu-yup. Beginning to like my 20-yr-old boat more and more. At least if
something goes wrong, it's becuase it's worn out (and chances are, I've at
least looked at it before!)

Already replaced the "pull-pull" steering that was installed wrong,
replaced the wrong fuel pump with the correct one, replaced the inadequate
wiring, replaced the fuel-filler hose that was used for sewage...Tell me
again why a new boat is so much more reliable than a used one?


Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" 1983 Catalina 36

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:16:57 -0700, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

Huuu-yup. Beginning to like my 20-yr-old boat more and more. At least if
something goes wrong, it's becuase it's worn out (and chances are, I've at
least looked at it before!)

Already replaced the "pull-pull" steering that was installed wrong,
replaced the wrong fuel pump with the correct one, replaced the inadequate
wiring, replaced the fuel-filler hose that was used for sewage...Tell me
again why a new boat is so much more reliable than a used one?


Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" 1983 Catalina 36

See how much better boat you'd get if you could pry Far Cove from
Lloyd's clutches than a crappy new boat?! His is ALL FIXED PROPERLY!



Larry W4CSC

Isn't it becoming more practical by the day to make
Iraq's desert the new World Nuclear Waste Disposal Site?

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 18:23:38 GMT, (Larry W4CSC) wrote:
See how much better boat you'd get if you could pry Far Cove from
Lloyd's clutches than a crappy new boat?! His is ALL FIXED PROPERLY!
=====================================

Isn't that the boat with the head discharge plumbed into the sink
because it has a plugged thru hull ?

Gould 0738 wrote:
Had an experience out on Elliott Bay yesterday that seems funny enough to
report on, in retrospect.

I was invited to write a review on a pretty nice boat. Because what happened
could have happened to any boat, the brand name isn't important. The boat is
powered by twin 225HP Honda 4-stroke outboards. These are big, heavy engines
and the weight may have been a factor.

Come on Chuck don't go all coy you can tell this NG we're all friends
:-) Not good for business hey???

K

On 28 Aug 2003 16:35:31 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Had an experience out on Elliott Bay yesterday that seems funny enough to
report on, in retrospect.

I was invited to write a review on a pretty nice boat. Because what happened
could have happened to any boat, the brand name isn't important.

Speaking of which, I subscribed to"'MotorBoating" and "Chesapeake Bay"
magazines, both of which carry several boat revues every month. I have yet to
see a review say anything negative about any of the reviewed boats. Nor have I
ever seen a comparison made to other boats. Is that just the way it is? Are
there any pubs that provide fairly complete pictures of the rated boats?

Thanks,

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

Gould 0738 wrote:
Had an experience out on Elliott Bay yesterday that seems funny enough to
report on, in retrospect.

I was invited to write a review on a pretty nice boat. Because what happened
could have happened to any boat, the brand name isn't important. The boat is
powered by twin 225HP Honda 4-stroke outboards. These are big, heavy engines
and the weight may have been a factor.

Gee can't help but think you're happy to comment adversely on the
Hondas, what "you" think they're too heavy?? but of course your "local"
customer with the unsafe boat that's a different matter.


We were doing speed trials back and forth across the bay, noting RPM, speed,
and fuel consumption reported by the Raymarine plotter and the Flo-Scan.
The local representative for the boat was quite proud, (and with some
justification) of the boat's performance.

Gee he even put your life at risk & you still spruik the defective
boat??? A marketer is a marketer till death hey, I can see it now here
lies (oops did I say lies??) & he'd like you all to know the coffin is
well finished on the inside & brought to you by the local red neck
packaging Co.??


"Let me show you how well it turns at speed," he said, as he brought the wheel
hard over to starboard. We veered from our course a few degrees, and then the
wheel spun idly on on its shaft. "I've lost steering!" he said. No doubt.

Oh well. Slightly better (but just) to break down with a magazine guy aboard
than with a highly motivated, red hot buyer. :-)

I tracked down the problem. When the boat had been rigged, one of the
connections between the hydraulic steering rams and the wheel (aka pump)
had not been adequately secured. Under the port hatch to the lazarette, I
spotted a black plastic tube dribbling hydraulic fluid into the bilge, and an
empty copper fitting on a nearby length of identical plastic tubing. "I found
it! Maybe if we hook things back together we can continue on. Got any steering
fluid? The nuts too tight to turn by hand! Got a wrench?"

Um, no. No wrench, no steering fluid if we did have a wrench, and no real
chance to fix the problem as a result. As easily as the plastic line had popped
out of the fitting, it showed no inclination to be shoved back in. :-(

Fortunately, we had two brand new Honda outboards that were running like Rolex.
(And according to the optional upgrade cost for these engines, they should!)
The proper thing seemed to be to use throttle and gearbox steering to head back
to the marina and call for a repair person.

Oops there we go again, the only problem was the price of those Hondas
& what not enough tools?? no mention of the unsafe & clearly unpressure
tested rigging??? What with the weight of those horrible Honda & all
those tools it'll sink like a brick when the steering fails at high
speed, yes??? Good news is it'll probably have scated back to the
dealers downtown showrooms anyway:-)

Oops. The starboard engine had turned slightly farther than the port when the
hose parted. Makes sense, I would suppose, because the hydraulic circuit failed
on the port side and the starboard engine would have had sustained hydraulic
pressure for a split second longer.

Don't expect you to know this but the fact that your customer didn't
correct you speaks heaps for their understanding, if there were any room
for doubt left that is.

Twin OBs don't turn in unison any more than the front wheels on your
car do. The inside engine (or front wheel) needs to turn more sharply
than the outside engine. It's referred to as the ackerman principle &
ALL good boat riggers are well aware of it (you & your weren't)

If the turn was to starboard as suggested, the starboard engine should
indeed have turned further (tighter) than the port.


To steer back, we finally wound up running dock lines around the engine
cowlings and securing the lines to cleats at the transom. Once the engines were
secured from swinging, we were able to get back to the marina with throttles
and shift.
Not exactly an impressive climax to the test of a $200k boat- but the fault was
with the rigging, not the design or the hull.

Well covered Chuck your customer can't be expected to supply a safe
boat for a mere 200K or your proper dollars. & as you spruik the front
did have a point on it & after all that's a radical improvement over the
last couple of thousand years or boating.

Lessons to be learned: Carry tools, at least a very few basics, even on a brand
new boat.
If it's a boat spruiked by Chuck that is.

Carry at least a pint or a quart of every vital fluid, even on a
brand new boat. Have better redundacy for steering.

Hands up all those with a standby tiller system on OBs?? Form an
orderly line in alphabetical order please:-) Really Chuck it was not
rigged properly & such that given the total power it could have been
extremely unsafe (gees it was!!) so you should report this as much much
more or at least as much as you do when you say how shiny the hull is in
your articles??? Tricky never get another boat from them?? yep probably,
but then you would carry some respect with readers as a reviewer, the
choice is yours, but it seems you've made it as you have many time
before in this NG.

(On my own boat, if we ever
loose steering we can put a manual tiller on a large nut atop the rudder
quadrant. Never had to do that, but we keep the tiller stowed aboard just in
case).




I'm not picking on you I promise:-) just road testing my new system,
the blokes only set it up for me this morning; wow it's fast & got so
much new stuff!!! I've been with old faithful since 99-2000 so I'll need
to learn all the new tricks I guess.

Best regards,

K

Come on Chuck don't go all coy you can tell this NG we're all friends
:-) Not good for business hey???

K

Because it isn't the fault of the boat.

This particular vessel was built in your corner of the planet (New Zealand) and
was shipped to the US sans engines. (It could have been set up as an I/O or an
outboard once here.) At that point, the builder is pretty well off the hook if
the local rigger falls short of the mark hooking up the engines.

I was surprised to see that the hydaulics were just plastic tubes stuffed into
compression fittings. Those engines and their associated rams are a fair sized
load.
I commented to the rep that I was surprised there wasn't at least a metal
fitting on end of the plastic line.

We now know that the guy who set up the Honda outboards used 50 pound fittings
instead of the 100 pound fittings the job actually required. He should have
used a reinforced hydraulic hose rather than the plastic line.

So, that's why trashing the boat isn't necessary or appropriate. Even after all
the
explanation, John Q. (as in public) walks away with only "Looks like Brand X is
a real piece of crap! The engines are set up wrong! Better avoid brand X!"
Since that would not have been true, why risk creating the impression?