On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:01:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Based on how you phrased it, the answer is obvious. A high hour boat
in excellant condition is probably a good boat

With one important caveat: A high hour boat is closer to a rebuild or
repower all other things being equal. Since either option is a big
expense, frequently approaching the value of an older boat, it is
important to know about where you are on that part of the maintenance
curve.

On Aug 29, 11:34?am, "Ed Forsythe"
wrote:
Of course there are. There are at least two "meaningful" books and they are
the same sources that banks and loan agencies use to evaluate loan
collateral. The best known are NADA and The BUC Book. Both are excellent
price info sources for both new and used boats of all shapes, sizes, age,
and condition.
Ed F.


Those books *will* tell you what a bank or a credit union will loan on
a boat. Granted.

Two problems; you're unlikely to find anybody at the bank or credit
union who has one for sale at that price- and unlikely to find anybody
at the bank or credit union willing to buy one at that price.

There's a major difference between collateral formulations and market
value.

Back when I worked as a yacht broker, I had a customer who absolutely
fell head over heels for a boat. The customer had done a lot of
shopping, and felt very comfortable with the offer that he made and
that (after a lot of arm twisting) the seller reluctantly accepted.
The guy couldn't have been happier........

The deal was subject to the buyer obtaining financing- a very typical
situation.

The afternoon after the original paperwork had been signed the very
happy buyer had done the biggest 180 possible. He was yelling and
screaming about my "dishonesty" and charging me with trying to cheat
him out of a considerable sum of money. "You led me to believe this
boat was worth the money, and my credti union looked it up in their
book and you are way, way, way high. I wouldn't buy this boat from you
at this point even if you could get the seller to bring the price
down, I don't like being lied to and cheated!"

I trotted out all the reported sales on comparable boats in the region
during the previous 18 months. Most were at figures even higher than
the buyer and seller had originally agreed upon. Made no difference.
"Of course you're just cherry picking the few sales that make the deal
look good! The only people I can trust o be on my side in this deal
are the folks at the credit union, and they tell me I'm being cheated
and so that's good enough for me!"

Refunded the guy's deposit and off he went. Sold the boat shortly
thereafter for even more money than the credit union blowout had
agreed to pay, so the seller was ultimately happy to.

Months and months later I ran into the credit union buyer again, and I
asked if he had ever purchased a boat. He got pretty upset when he
answered, "I keep trying, but I can't find an honest broker. Every
time I think I've made a deal, the Credit Union tells me I'm paying
way too much for the boat. I'm about ready to give up, you guys are
all crooks!"

In the final analysis, a boat is worth what a willing buyer will pay a
willing seller within a reasonable period of time. There's no reason
that the number has to have anything to do with some arbitrary figure
published in a book. Boats don't sell at wholesale auction like cars
do, and don't retail in sufficient quantity to establish a trend based
solely on make and model. Seller A's derelict 1990 scow of a boat that
needs to be all but given away simply to find somebody willing to take
it doesn't *really* reduce the value of Seller B's well kept, bristol
version of the same boat- even though some guy selling books for a
living (and who never saw either vessel) will undoubtedly construct a
numerical average between the two transactions.

By the way: NADA = National Association of Automobile Dealers. Yeah,
the local used car guy ought to be an expert on boat values.... :-)

BUC= We used to use the BUC book in the boat donation business. You
want a sky high value (for purposes of establishing the amount of a
tax write off)? It's in the BUC book, baby. Gotta be something wrong
with a book that can be used to put as much or more cash in a donor's
pocket (if he's in the 40% tax bracket) than he would ever realize by
selling the boat outright, wouldn't you think?

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Aug 29, 11:34?am, "Ed Forsythe"
wrote:
Of course there are. There are at least two "meaningful" books and they are
the same sources that banks and loan agencies use to evaluate loan
collateral. The best known are NADA and The BUC Book. Both are excellent
price info sources for both new and used boats of all shapes, sizes, age,
and condition.
Ed F.


Those books *will* tell you what a bank or a credit union will loan on
a boat. Granted.

Two problems; you're unlikely to find anybody at the bank or credit
union who has one for sale at that price- and unlikely to find anybody
at the bank or credit union willing to buy one at that price.

There's a major difference between collateral formulations and market
value.

Back when I worked as a yacht broker, I had a customer who absolutely
fell head over heels for a boat. The customer had done a lot of
shopping, and felt very comfortable with the offer that he made and
that (after a lot of arm twisting) the seller reluctantly accepted.
The guy couldn't have been happier........

The deal was subject to the buyer obtaining financing- a very typical
situation.

The afternoon after the original paperwork had been signed the very
happy buyer had done the biggest 180 possible. He was yelling and
screaming about my "dishonesty" and charging me with trying to cheat
him out of a considerable sum of money. "You led me to believe this
boat was worth the money, and my credti union looked it up in their
book and you are way, way, way high. I wouldn't buy this boat from you
at this point even if you could get the seller to bring the price
down, I don't like being lied to and cheated!"

I trotted out all the reported sales on comparable boats in the region
during the previous 18 months. Most were at figures even higher than
the buyer and seller had originally agreed upon. Made no difference.
"Of course you're just cherry picking the few sales that make the deal
look good! The only people I can trust o be on my side in this deal
are the folks at the credit union, and they tell me I'm being cheated
and so that's good enough for me!"

Refunded the guy's deposit and off he went. Sold the boat shortly
thereafter for even more money than the credit union blowout had
agreed to pay, so the seller was ultimately happy to.

Months and months later I ran into the credit union buyer again, and I
asked if he had ever purchased a boat. He got pretty upset when he
answered, "I keep trying, but I can't find an honest broker. Every
time I think I've made a deal, the Credit Union tells me I'm paying
way too much for the boat. I'm about ready to give up, you guys are
all crooks!"

In the final analysis, a boat is worth what a willing buyer will pay a
willing seller within a reasonable period of time. There's no reason
that the number has to have anything to do with some arbitrary figure
published in a book. Boats don't sell at wholesale auction like cars
do, and don't retail in sufficient quantity to establish a trend based
solely on make and model. Seller A's derelict 1990 scow of a boat that
needs to be all but given away simply to find somebody willing to take
it doesn't *really* reduce the value of Seller B's well kept, bristol
version of the same boat- even though some guy selling books for a
living (and who never saw either vessel) will undoubtedly construct a
numerical average between the two transactions.

By the way: NADA = National Association of Automobile Dealers. Yeah,
the local used car guy ought to be an expert on boat values.... :-)

BUC= We used to use the BUC book in the boat donation business. You
want a sky high value (for purposes of establishing the amount of a
tax write off)? It's in the BUC book, baby. Gotta be something wrong
with a book that can be used to put as much or more cash in a donor's
pocket (if he's in the 40% tax bracket) than he would ever realize by
selling the boat outright, wouldn't you think?



Ahh, for those heady days in the past when our dryland boater from
Kansas used to tout the accuracy of the "blue books," making an idiot of
himself.

"HK" wrote in message
...

Ahh, for those heady days in the past when our dryland boater from Kansas
used to tout the accuracy of the "blue books," making an idiot of himself.


Poor Skipper. Last time we all missed him, he came back with a vendetta and
just wanted to fight with Chuck the entire time.
Too bad, he was entertaining when he was his old self. Just the thought of
him sitting in the cockpit of that Bilgeliner, capts hat on his head, in a
dusty cornfield would bring a smile to your face. All the old characters
seem to be disappearing....to be replaced by the likes of 'Dingy
Dan'.........pity!

Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Ahh, for those heady days in the past when our dryland boater from Kansas
used to tout the accuracy of the "blue books," making an idiot of himself.


Poor Skipper. Last time we all missed him, he came back with a vendetta and
just wanted to fight with Chuck the entire time.
Too bad, he was entertaining when he was his old self. Just the thought of
him sitting in the cockpit of that Bilgeliner, capts hat on his head, in a
dusty cornfield would bring a smile to your face. All the old characters
seem to be disappearing....to be replaced by the likes of 'Dingy
Dan'.........pity!





Indeed. As classless as Skipper was, he had more class than Dan,
Herring, and the rest of the assholes.

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:47:07 -0400, HK wrote:

Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Ahh, for those heady days in the past when our dryland boater from Kansas
used to tout the accuracy of the "blue books," making an idiot of himself.


Poor Skipper. Last time we all missed him, he came back with a vendetta and
just wanted to fight with Chuck the entire time.
Too bad, he was entertaining when he was his old self. Just the thought of
him sitting in the cockpit of that Bilgeliner, capts hat on his head, in a
dusty cornfield would bring a smile to your face. All the old characters
seem to be disappearing....to be replaced by the likes of 'Dingy
Dan'.........pity!





Indeed. As classless as Skipper was, he had more class than Dan,
Herring, and the rest of the assholes.

How endearing, to some folks.
--
John H

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:03:56 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Those books *will* tell you what a bank or a credit union will loan on
a boat. Granted.

Two problems; you're unlikely to find anybody at the bank or credit
union who has one for sale at that price- and unlikely to find anybody
at the bank or credit union willing to buy one at that price.

Out of curiosity, how many boats under 25' did you sell in a year when
you were actively selling boats?

Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Ahh, for those heady days in the past when our dryland boater from Kansas
used to tout the accuracy of the "blue books," making an idiot of himself.


Poor Skipper. Last time we all missed him, he came back with a vendetta and
just wanted to fight with Chuck the entire time.
Too bad, he was entertaining when he was his old self. Just the thought of
him sitting in the cockpit of that Bilgeliner, capts hat on his head, in a
dusty cornfield would bring a smile to your face. All the old characters
seem to be disappearing....to be replaced by the likes of 'Dingy
Dan'.........pity!



So Dopey Don, how entertaining is it to watch your lazy "should have
left the house years ago and moved on to a real life" son rummage
through your refrigerator every day?

Dan wrote:
Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Ahh, for those heady days in the past when our dryland boater from
Kansas used to tout the accuracy of the "blue books," making an idiot
of himself.


Poor Skipper. Last time we all missed him, he came back with a
vendetta and just wanted to fight with Chuck the entire time.
Too bad, he was entertaining when he was his old self. Just the
thought of him sitting in the cockpit of that Bilgeliner, capts hat on
his head, in a dusty cornfield would bring a smile to your face. All
the old characters seem to be disappearing....to be replaced by the
likes of 'Dingy Dan'.........pity!


So Dopey Don, how entertaining is it to watch your lazy "should have
left the house years ago and moved on to a real life" son rummage
through your refrigerator every day?

I thought so...

crickets

"Dan" intrceptor@gmaildotcom wrote in message
.. .
Dan wrote:
Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Ahh, for those heady days in the past when our dryland boater from
Kansas used to tout the accuracy of the "blue books," making an idiot
of himself.


Poor Skipper. Last time we all missed him, he came back with a vendetta
and just wanted to fight with Chuck the entire time.
Too bad, he was entertaining when he was his old self. Just the thought
of him sitting in the cockpit of that Bilgeliner, capts hat on his head,
in a dusty cornfield would bring a smile to your face. All the old
characters seem to be disappearing....to be replaced by the likes of
'Dingy Dan'.........pity!


So Dopey Don, how entertaining is it to watch your lazy "should have left
the house years ago and moved on to a real life" son rummage through your
refrigerator every day?

I thought so...

crickets

Answering yourself again?
Guess you have to when everyone else ignores you. Sad!