Valuation of boats
 

I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

Valuation of boats
 

Yes, try nada.com for a decent reference. It's by no means gospel, but it'll
give you a starting point.

--Mike

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

Valuation of boats
 

On Aug 28, 9:04?pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

There is not really any meaningful blue book for boats.

The volume is too small, the markets are too regional. A price that
would be considered a rip off in one region of the country where a
particular boat isn't very popular may be a bargain somewhere else.

Best approach is to shop, a lot, in your local market before you buy
anything. Used boats sell very slowly most of the time, unless they
are offered at give-away prices and you won't know what a give-away is
in your area until you've followed the market a while.

You can always check the ads. That's a great place to learn what boats
*aren't* worth, because they are still for sale. Check the ad codes on
some of the ads in weekly shoppers, it isn't hard sometimes to figure
out that an ad labeled 4307XXXX may have been running since April of
May of this year (as an example), and then you can tell who the hungry
sellers are likely to be- those ready to get realistic about pricing.

Always offer less. You can always come up if the seller tells you to
take a hike, but it's tougher to back out gracefully if you make an
offer and the seller immediately leaps three feet into the air, clicks
his heels together, and shouts "Hallelujah!" while pumping his fist
into space.

No offense intended, but until you have done a lot of local homework
there really isn't a reliable shortcut to help you establish the
regional value of a used boat.

Valuation of boats
 

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:04:07 -0000, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:

I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

Chuck makes some valid points about regions and types of boats.

However, there are resources for boats in the category you are looking
for. NADA is a good place to start - it does allow for some
regionalization by zip code, but the differences aren't by much.

Boat value can be subjective. Anything under 5K it's pretty much what
kind of condition the boat is in, engine hours and age. Boats age and
depreciate much faster than you may think. The boats that Chuck
writes about and advertises in his magazine tend to hold higher value
for longer than boats that you and I may have. While I value Chuck's
opinion on most things, I disagree with him on boat value for the
average, non-cruiser boater.

You need to look at engine hours - low hours aren't a perfect
guideline, but engines with less than 40 hours per year indicate that
the probability that it wasn't abused or beat on. Hull condition in
particular around the keel - a clean hull, no blisters, no dings or
nicks in the keel indicates a well kept boat. Interior condition as
in carpet, seats, upholstery, floor strength. Look in the engine
compartment and see what condition it's in.

Once you get an idea of what the boat is like, compare that condition
to the asking price. Go to NADA and get an idea, based on equipment
and condition, of what the used value is. If the asking price matches
the NADA value, then you have a starting point.

There are variables to this formula. Suppose for instance, the owner
has refurbished the interior or has had an engine change or upgrade.
That changes the equation. Additional equipment can change the value
by a $1,000 or so.

I'll give you an example. I have a 2000 Ranger 200 C bay boat with a
brand new 2006 Evinrude ETEC with less than 60 hours on it. There
are folks in this newsgroup who have been on the boat and have seen it
- it is in outstanding condition. NADA indicates my boat is worth
$16,000. The ETEC is worth $16,000 by it'self. So if I wanted to
sell it at a reasonable price, I'd have to ask at least $26,000 for
it.

On the other hand, that same boat with a 2000 200 low hours FICHT on
it is worth $16,000, but even with that engine on it, I'd be hard
pressed to get $16,000 for it - maybe $12/13K.

So a lot of boat pricing is subjective.

At the minimum, if you decide on a boat you like, offer 70% of the
asking price and start there. As Chuck said, you start low and work
your way up to a settlement.

One last thing - have the boat checked before signing on the dotted
line. Have a good mechanic go through the engine and make sure the
running gear is in good shape.

Good luck.

Valuation of boats
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:04:07 -0000, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:

I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

Chuck makes some valid points about regions and types of boats.

However, there are resources for boats in the category you are looking
for. NADA is a good place to start - it does allow for some
regionalization by zip code, but the differences aren't by much.

Boat value can be subjective. Anything under 5K it's pretty much what
kind of condition the boat is in, engine hours and age. Boats age and
depreciate much faster than you may think. The boats that Chuck
writes about and advertises in his magazine tend to hold higher value
for longer than boats that you and I may have. While I value Chuck's
opinion on most things, I disagree with him on boat value for the
average, non-cruiser boater.

You need to look at engine hours - low hours aren't a perfect
guideline, but engines with less than 40 hours per year indicate that
the probability that it wasn't abused or beat on. Hull condition in
particular around the keel - a clean hull, no blisters, no dings or
nicks in the keel indicates a well kept boat. Interior condition as
in carpet, seats, upholstery, floor strength. Look in the engine
compartment and see what condition it's in.

Once you get an idea of what the boat is like, compare that condition
to the asking price. Go to NADA and get an idea, based on equipment
and condition, of what the used value is. If the asking price matches
the NADA value, then you have a starting point.

There are variables to this formula. Suppose for instance, the owner
has refurbished the interior or has had an engine change or upgrade.
That changes the equation. Additional equipment can change the value
by a $1,000 or so.

I'll give you an example. I have a 2000 Ranger 200 C bay boat with a
brand new 2006 Evinrude ETEC with less than 60 hours on it. There
are folks in this newsgroup who have been on the boat and have seen it
- it is in outstanding condition. NADA indicates my boat is worth
$16,000. The ETEC is worth $16,000 by it'self. So if I wanted to
sell it at a reasonable price, I'd have to ask at least $26,000 for
it.

On the other hand, that same boat with a 2000 200 low hours FICHT on
it is worth $16,000, but even with that engine on it, I'd be hard
pressed to get $16,000 for it - maybe $12/13K.

So a lot of boat pricing is subjective.

At the minimum, if you decide on a boat you like, offer 70% of the
asking price and start there. As Chuck said, you start low and work
your way up to a settlement.

One last thing - have the boat checked before signing on the dotted
line. Have a good mechanic go through the engine and make sure the
running gear is in good shape.

Good luck.


Heheh. I had a fellow offer me 80% of my asking price. After I stopped
laughing, I told him no. He called back after I had sold the boat and
when I told him the boat was gone, he seemed really disappointed.
Awwwwwwww.

Valuation of boats
 

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:38:34 -0400, HK wrote:

Heheh. I had a fellow offer me 80% of my asking price. After I stopped
laughing, I told him no. He called back after I had sold the boat and
when I told him the boat was gone, he seemed really disappointed.
Awwwwwwww.

I sold the older Contender for about $10K less than I paid for it. I
sold the last Contender for exactly what I paid for it. $300 less
than I paid for the Princecraft.

It all depends on the buyer and what the buyer is looking for.

It wouldn't surprize me if I took the Ranger down south with the FICHT
on it and get what it's really worth. Bay boats just don't sell up in
this area for a variety of reasons.

Valuation of boats
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:38:34 -0400, HK wrote:

Heheh. I had a fellow offer me 80% of my asking price. After I stopped
laughing, I told him no. He called back after I had sold the boat and
when I told him the boat was gone, he seemed really disappointed.
Awwwwwwww.

I sold the older Contender for about $10K less than I paid for it. I
sold the last Contender for exactly what I paid for it. $300 less
than I paid for the Princecraft.

It all depends on the buyer and what the buyer is looking for.

It wouldn't surprize me if I took the Ranger down south with the FICHT
on it and get what it's really worth. Bay boats just don't sell up in
this area for a variety of reasons.


Indeed. I see no reason to fulfill the wet dreams of the boating
equivalent of tire kickers and fantasy shoppers.

Valuation of boats
 

On Aug 29, 5:29?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:04:07 -0000, "Robert M. Gary"

wrote:
I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

Chuck makes some valid points about regions and types of boats.

However, there are resources for boats in the category you are looking
for. NADA is a good place to start - it does allow for some
regionalization by zip code, but the differences aren't by much.

Boat value can be subjective. Anything under 5K it's pretty much what
kind of condition the boat is in, engine hours and age. Boats age and
depreciate much faster than you may think. The boats that Chuck
writes about and advertises in his magazine tend to hold higher value
for longer than boats that you and I may have. While I value Chuck's
opinion on most things, I disagree with him on boat value for the
average, non-cruiser boater.

You need to look at engine hours - low hours aren't a perfect
guideline, but engines with less than 40 hours per year indicate that
the probability that it wasn't abused or beat on. Hull condition in
particular around the keel - a clean hull, no blisters, no dings or
nicks in the keel indicates a well kept boat. Interior condition as
in carpet, seats, upholstery, floor strength. Look in the engine
compartment and see what condition it's in.

Once you get an idea of what the boat is like, compare that condition
to the asking price. Go to NADA and get an idea, based on equipment
and condition, of what the used value is. If the asking price matches
the NADA value, then you have a starting point.

There are variables to this formula. Suppose for instance, the owner
has refurbished the interior or has had an engine change or upgrade.
That changes the equation. Additional equipment can change the value
by a $1,000 or so.

I'll give you an example. I have a 2000 Ranger 200 C bay boat with a
brand new 2006 Evinrude ETEC with less than 60 hours on it. There
are folks in this newsgroup who have been on the boat and have seen it
- it is in outstanding condition. NADA indicates my boat is worth
$16,000. The ETEC is worth $16,000 by it'self. So if I wanted to
sell it at a reasonable price, I'd have to ask at least $26,000 for
it.

On the other hand, that same boat with a 2000 200 low hours FICHT on
it is worth $16,000, but even with that engine on it, I'd be hard
pressed to get $16,000 for it - maybe $12/13K.

So a lot of boat pricing is subjective.

At the minimum, if you decide on a boat you like, offer 70% of the
asking price and start there. As Chuck said, you start low and work
your way up to a settlement.

One last thing - have the boat checked before signing on the dotted
line. Have a good mechanic go through the engine and make sure the
running gear is in good shape.

Good luck.

How does low hours determine if a boat was beat on? I have seen some
very high hour boats in great condition and some low hour boats that
were neglected.

Valuation of boats
 

Of course there are. There are at least two "meaningful" books and they are
the same sources that banks and loan agencies use to evaluate loan
collateral. The best known are NADA and The BUC Book. Both are excellent
price info sources for both new and used boats of all shapes, sizes, age,
and condition.
Ed F.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 28, 9:04?pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

There is not really any meaningful blue book for boats.

The volume is too small, the markets are too regional. A price that
would be considered a rip off in one region of the country where a
particular boat isn't very popular may be a bargain somewhere else.

Best approach is to shop, a lot, in your local market before you buy
anything. Used boats sell very slowly most of the time, unless they
are offered at give-away prices and you won't know what a give-away is
in your area until you've followed the market a while.

You can always check the ads. That's a great place to learn what boats
*aren't* worth, because they are still for sale. Check the ad codes on
some of the ads in weekly shoppers, it isn't hard sometimes to figure
out that an ad labeled 4307XXXX may have been running since April of
May of this year (as an example), and then you can tell who the hungry
sellers are likely to be- those ready to get realistic about pricing.

Always offer less. You can always come up if the seller tells you to
take a hike, but it's tougher to back out gracefully if you make an
offer and the seller immediately leaps three feet into the air, clicks
his heels together, and shouts "Hallelujah!" while pumping his fist
into space.

No offense intended, but until you have done a lot of local homework
there really isn't a reliable shortcut to help you establish the
regional value of a used boat.

Valuation of boats
 

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:20:15 -0700, Go Bucks wrote:

How does low hours determine if a boat was beat on? I have seen some
very high hour boats in great condition and some low hour boats that
were neglected.

That's a good question.

Based on how you phrased it, the answer is obvious. A high hour boat
in excellant condition is probably a good boat - the owner took care
of it and the evidence is in how it looks.

However, a beat up boat with low hours engine isn't indicative of it's
mechanical condition - it may be in perfect shape mechanically, it
just looks worn and used. For example, I have a friend who has a
aluminum hulled work boat built by Pacific and it's been used hard in
all kinds of weather and sea conditions - he uses it to inspect
bridges, pilings, wharfs, sea walls and dive/salvage work. It's
dented and diinged and looks like it has been used hard.

Mechanically? It's like new. If something goes wrong, he fixes it
immediately, he rotates his engines every two years and every thing
mechanical on the boat is in Bristol condition. It just looks used.
It' s the most seaworthy 26' boat I've been on.

As a rule, you want to look at things like scrapes, dings and gouges.
If there are a lot of them, tha't probably not a great deal. Look in
the bilges and see what kind of condition it's in. Relatively clean,
then the owner has probably taken care of it.

On the other hand, I saw a boat recently that was a hurricane boat
(Andrew if memory serves) - 32' Hydra-Sports CC that was, and I'm
serious about this, totaled. The difference between the damage and
the boat today is incredible - it's looks nice, but if you look
closely comparing the photos to the boat, you can see where the
repairs weren't perfect and little flaws here and there.

The only true way to determine the condition of any boat is to have a
professional look at it. Without bragging, I know a fair amount about
small (under 26') boats and in particular center consoles and what I
know based compared to what a professional surveyor knows is night and
day. I learned that lesson on a Topaz I almost bought. I thought the
boat was in decent condition, made an offer and had a surveyor look at
it. The deal was off in five minutes - he found more wrong with the
boat in five minutes than I did in an hour.

I'm looking around at returning to the large CC world and I won't make
a move until the boat has been surveyed - I learned my lesson quickly
and I will never make that mistake again. Even if it's new.

There is also the relative satisfaction factor. Somebody I know very
well has a boat that I wouldn't be caught dead in for any reason. But
he's perfectly satisfied with it - it's safe, it works, needs
occasional repair, but he only paid $5,000 for it six years ago and
has put maybe $1,000 in it on this and that. He hauls his lobster
traps with it, fishes out of it, occasionally goes camping in it and
other than covering the engine over winter, does no maintainence on
the hull. Blisters? Just reams 'em out, preps it, puts some Marine
Tex on it, repaints and that's that.

So, I don't know if that answers your question or not - yes/no?