I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

Yes, try nada.com for a decent reference. It's by no means gospel, but it'll
give you a starting point.

--Mike

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

On Aug 28, 9:04?pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

There is not really any meaningful blue book for boats.

The volume is too small, the markets are too regional. A price that
would be considered a rip off in one region of the country where a
particular boat isn't very popular may be a bargain somewhere else.

Best approach is to shop, a lot, in your local market before you buy
anything. Used boats sell very slowly most of the time, unless they
are offered at give-away prices and you won't know what a give-away is
in your area until you've followed the market a while.

You can always check the ads. That's a great place to learn what boats
*aren't* worth, because they are still for sale. Check the ad codes on
some of the ads in weekly shoppers, it isn't hard sometimes to figure
out that an ad labeled 4307XXXX may have been running since April of
May of this year (as an example), and then you can tell who the hungry
sellers are likely to be- those ready to get realistic about pricing.

Always offer less. You can always come up if the seller tells you to
take a hike, but it's tougher to back out gracefully if you make an
offer and the seller immediately leaps three feet into the air, clicks
his heels together, and shouts "Hallelujah!" while pumping his fist
into space.

No offense intended, but until you have done a lot of local homework
there really isn't a reliable shortcut to help you establish the
regional value of a used boat.

Of course there are. There are at least two "meaningful" books and they are
the same sources that banks and loan agencies use to evaluate loan
collateral. The best known are NADA and The BUC Book. Both are excellent
price info sources for both new and used boats of all shapes, sizes, age,
and condition.
Ed F.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 28, 9:04?pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

There is not really any meaningful blue book for boats.

The volume is too small, the markets are too regional. A price that
would be considered a rip off in one region of the country where a
particular boat isn't very popular may be a bargain somewhere else.

Best approach is to shop, a lot, in your local market before you buy
anything. Used boats sell very slowly most of the time, unless they
are offered at give-away prices and you won't know what a give-away is
in your area until you've followed the market a while.

You can always check the ads. That's a great place to learn what boats
*aren't* worth, because they are still for sale. Check the ad codes on
some of the ads in weekly shoppers, it isn't hard sometimes to figure
out that an ad labeled 4307XXXX may have been running since April of
May of this year (as an example), and then you can tell who the hungry
sellers are likely to be- those ready to get realistic about pricing.

Always offer less. You can always come up if the seller tells you to
take a hike, but it's tougher to back out gracefully if you make an
offer and the seller immediately leaps three feet into the air, clicks
his heels together, and shouts "Hallelujah!" while pumping his fist
into space.

No offense intended, but until you have done a lot of local homework
there really isn't a reliable shortcut to help you establish the
regional value of a used boat.

On Aug 29, 11:34?am, "Ed Forsythe"
wrote:
Of course there are. There are at least two "meaningful" books and they are
the same sources that banks and loan agencies use to evaluate loan
collateral. The best known are NADA and The BUC Book. Both are excellent
price info sources for both new and used boats of all shapes, sizes, age,
and condition.
Ed F.


Those books *will* tell you what a bank or a credit union will loan on
a boat. Granted.

Two problems; you're unlikely to find anybody at the bank or credit
union who has one for sale at that price- and unlikely to find anybody
at the bank or credit union willing to buy one at that price.

There's a major difference between collateral formulations and market
value.

Back when I worked as a yacht broker, I had a customer who absolutely
fell head over heels for a boat. The customer had done a lot of
shopping, and felt very comfortable with the offer that he made and
that (after a lot of arm twisting) the seller reluctantly accepted.
The guy couldn't have been happier........

The deal was subject to the buyer obtaining financing- a very typical
situation.

The afternoon after the original paperwork had been signed the very
happy buyer had done the biggest 180 possible. He was yelling and
screaming about my "dishonesty" and charging me with trying to cheat
him out of a considerable sum of money. "You led me to believe this
boat was worth the money, and my credti union looked it up in their
book and you are way, way, way high. I wouldn't buy this boat from you
at this point even if you could get the seller to bring the price
down, I don't like being lied to and cheated!"

I trotted out all the reported sales on comparable boats in the region
during the previous 18 months. Most were at figures even higher than
the buyer and seller had originally agreed upon. Made no difference.
"Of course you're just cherry picking the few sales that make the deal
look good! The only people I can trust o be on my side in this deal
are the folks at the credit union, and they tell me I'm being cheated
and so that's good enough for me!"

Refunded the guy's deposit and off he went. Sold the boat shortly
thereafter for even more money than the credit union blowout had
agreed to pay, so the seller was ultimately happy to.

Months and months later I ran into the credit union buyer again, and I
asked if he had ever purchased a boat. He got pretty upset when he
answered, "I keep trying, but I can't find an honest broker. Every
time I think I've made a deal, the Credit Union tells me I'm paying
way too much for the boat. I'm about ready to give up, you guys are
all crooks!"

In the final analysis, a boat is worth what a willing buyer will pay a
willing seller within a reasonable period of time. There's no reason
that the number has to have anything to do with some arbitrary figure
published in a book. Boats don't sell at wholesale auction like cars
do, and don't retail in sufficient quantity to establish a trend based
solely on make and model. Seller A's derelict 1990 scow of a boat that
needs to be all but given away simply to find somebody willing to take
it doesn't *really* reduce the value of Seller B's well kept, bristol
version of the same boat- even though some guy selling books for a
living (and who never saw either vessel) will undoubtedly construct a
numerical average between the two transactions.

By the way: NADA = National Association of Automobile Dealers. Yeah,
the local used car guy ought to be an expert on boat values.... :-)

BUC= We used to use the BUC book in the boat donation business. You
want a sky high value (for purposes of establishing the amount of a
tax write off)? It's in the BUC book, baby. Gotta be something wrong
with a book that can be used to put as much or more cash in a donor's
pocket (if he's in the 40% tax bracket) than he would ever realize by
selling the boat outright, wouldn't you think?

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Aug 29, 11:34?am, "Ed Forsythe"
wrote:
Of course there are. There are at least two "meaningful" books and they are
the same sources that banks and loan agencies use to evaluate loan
collateral. The best known are NADA and The BUC Book. Both are excellent
price info sources for both new and used boats of all shapes, sizes, age,
and condition.
Ed F.


Those books *will* tell you what a bank or a credit union will loan on
a boat. Granted.

Two problems; you're unlikely to find anybody at the bank or credit
union who has one for sale at that price- and unlikely to find anybody
at the bank or credit union willing to buy one at that price.

There's a major difference between collateral formulations and market
value.

Back when I worked as a yacht broker, I had a customer who absolutely
fell head over heels for a boat. The customer had done a lot of
shopping, and felt very comfortable with the offer that he made and
that (after a lot of arm twisting) the seller reluctantly accepted.
The guy couldn't have been happier........

The deal was subject to the buyer obtaining financing- a very typical
situation.

The afternoon after the original paperwork had been signed the very
happy buyer had done the biggest 180 possible. He was yelling and
screaming about my "dishonesty" and charging me with trying to cheat
him out of a considerable sum of money. "You led me to believe this
boat was worth the money, and my credti union looked it up in their
book and you are way, way, way high. I wouldn't buy this boat from you
at this point even if you could get the seller to bring the price
down, I don't like being lied to and cheated!"

I trotted out all the reported sales on comparable boats in the region
during the previous 18 months. Most were at figures even higher than
the buyer and seller had originally agreed upon. Made no difference.
"Of course you're just cherry picking the few sales that make the deal
look good! The only people I can trust o be on my side in this deal
are the folks at the credit union, and they tell me I'm being cheated
and so that's good enough for me!"

Refunded the guy's deposit and off he went. Sold the boat shortly
thereafter for even more money than the credit union blowout had
agreed to pay, so the seller was ultimately happy to.

Months and months later I ran into the credit union buyer again, and I
asked if he had ever purchased a boat. He got pretty upset when he
answered, "I keep trying, but I can't find an honest broker. Every
time I think I've made a deal, the Credit Union tells me I'm paying
way too much for the boat. I'm about ready to give up, you guys are
all crooks!"

In the final analysis, a boat is worth what a willing buyer will pay a
willing seller within a reasonable period of time. There's no reason
that the number has to have anything to do with some arbitrary figure
published in a book. Boats don't sell at wholesale auction like cars
do, and don't retail in sufficient quantity to establish a trend based
solely on make and model. Seller A's derelict 1990 scow of a boat that
needs to be all but given away simply to find somebody willing to take
it doesn't *really* reduce the value of Seller B's well kept, bristol
version of the same boat- even though some guy selling books for a
living (and who never saw either vessel) will undoubtedly construct a
numerical average between the two transactions.

By the way: NADA = National Association of Automobile Dealers. Yeah,
the local used car guy ought to be an expert on boat values.... :-)

BUC= We used to use the BUC book in the boat donation business. You
want a sky high value (for purposes of establishing the amount of a
tax write off)? It's in the BUC book, baby. Gotta be something wrong
with a book that can be used to put as much or more cash in a donor's
pocket (if he's in the 40% tax bracket) than he would ever realize by
selling the boat outright, wouldn't you think?



Ahh, for those heady days in the past when our dryland boater from
Kansas used to tout the accuracy of the "blue books," making an idiot of
himself.

"HK" wrote in message
...

Ahh, for those heady days in the past when our dryland boater from Kansas
used to tout the accuracy of the "blue books," making an idiot of himself.


Poor Skipper. Last time we all missed him, he came back with a vendetta and
just wanted to fight with Chuck the entire time.
Too bad, he was entertaining when he was his old self. Just the thought of
him sitting in the cockpit of that Bilgeliner, capts hat on his head, in a
dusty cornfield would bring a smile to your face. All the old characters
seem to be disappearing....to be replaced by the likes of 'Dingy
Dan'.........pity!

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:03:56 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Those books *will* tell you what a bank or a credit union will loan on
a boat. Granted.

Two problems; you're unlikely to find anybody at the bank or credit
union who has one for sale at that price- and unlikely to find anybody
at the bank or credit union willing to buy one at that price.

Out of curiosity, how many boats under 25' did you sell in a year when
you were actively selling boats?

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:04:07 -0000, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:

I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

Chuck makes some valid points about regions and types of boats.

However, there are resources for boats in the category you are looking
for. NADA is a good place to start - it does allow for some
regionalization by zip code, but the differences aren't by much.

Boat value can be subjective. Anything under 5K it's pretty much what
kind of condition the boat is in, engine hours and age. Boats age and
depreciate much faster than you may think. The boats that Chuck
writes about and advertises in his magazine tend to hold higher value
for longer than boats that you and I may have. While I value Chuck's
opinion on most things, I disagree with him on boat value for the
average, non-cruiser boater.

You need to look at engine hours - low hours aren't a perfect
guideline, but engines with less than 40 hours per year indicate that
the probability that it wasn't abused or beat on. Hull condition in
particular around the keel - a clean hull, no blisters, no dings or
nicks in the keel indicates a well kept boat. Interior condition as
in carpet, seats, upholstery, floor strength. Look in the engine
compartment and see what condition it's in.

Once you get an idea of what the boat is like, compare that condition
to the asking price. Go to NADA and get an idea, based on equipment
and condition, of what the used value is. If the asking price matches
the NADA value, then you have a starting point.

There are variables to this formula. Suppose for instance, the owner
has refurbished the interior or has had an engine change or upgrade.
That changes the equation. Additional equipment can change the value
by a $1,000 or so.

I'll give you an example. I have a 2000 Ranger 200 C bay boat with a
brand new 2006 Evinrude ETEC with less than 60 hours on it. There
are folks in this newsgroup who have been on the boat and have seen it
- it is in outstanding condition. NADA indicates my boat is worth
$16,000. The ETEC is worth $16,000 by it'self. So if I wanted to
sell it at a reasonable price, I'd have to ask at least $26,000 for
it.

On the other hand, that same boat with a 2000 200 low hours FICHT on
it is worth $16,000, but even with that engine on it, I'd be hard
pressed to get $16,000 for it - maybe $12/13K.

So a lot of boat pricing is subjective.

At the minimum, if you decide on a boat you like, offer 70% of the
asking price and start there. As Chuck said, you start low and work
your way up to a settlement.

One last thing - have the boat checked before signing on the dotted
line. Have a good mechanic go through the engine and make sure the
running gear is in good shape.

Good luck.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:04:07 -0000, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:

I'm looking at small/mid sized ski boats and am wondering how I
determine if a seller is asking a price that is within the ball park
of what the boat is worth (I know very little about boats). Is there a
Kelly Blue Book type thing for boats?

Chuck makes some valid points about regions and types of boats.

However, there are resources for boats in the category you are looking
for. NADA is a good place to start - it does allow for some
regionalization by zip code, but the differences aren't by much.

Boat value can be subjective. Anything under 5K it's pretty much what
kind of condition the boat is in, engine hours and age. Boats age and
depreciate much faster than you may think. The boats that Chuck
writes about and advertises in his magazine tend to hold higher value
for longer than boats that you and I may have. While I value Chuck's
opinion on most things, I disagree with him on boat value for the
average, non-cruiser boater.

You need to look at engine hours - low hours aren't a perfect
guideline, but engines with less than 40 hours per year indicate that
the probability that it wasn't abused or beat on. Hull condition in
particular around the keel - a clean hull, no blisters, no dings or
nicks in the keel indicates a well kept boat. Interior condition as
in carpet, seats, upholstery, floor strength. Look in the engine
compartment and see what condition it's in.

Once you get an idea of what the boat is like, compare that condition
to the asking price. Go to NADA and get an idea, based on equipment
and condition, of what the used value is. If the asking price matches
the NADA value, then you have a starting point.

There are variables to this formula. Suppose for instance, the owner
has refurbished the interior or has had an engine change or upgrade.
That changes the equation. Additional equipment can change the value
by a $1,000 or so.

I'll give you an example. I have a 2000 Ranger 200 C bay boat with a
brand new 2006 Evinrude ETEC with less than 60 hours on it. There
are folks in this newsgroup who have been on the boat and have seen it
- it is in outstanding condition. NADA indicates my boat is worth
$16,000. The ETEC is worth $16,000 by it'self. So if I wanted to
sell it at a reasonable price, I'd have to ask at least $26,000 for
it.

On the other hand, that same boat with a 2000 200 low hours FICHT on
it is worth $16,000, but even with that engine on it, I'd be hard
pressed to get $16,000 for it - maybe $12/13K.

So a lot of boat pricing is subjective.

At the minimum, if you decide on a boat you like, offer 70% of the
asking price and start there. As Chuck said, you start low and work
your way up to a settlement.

One last thing - have the boat checked before signing on the dotted
line. Have a good mechanic go through the engine and make sure the
running gear is in good shape.

Good luck.


Heheh. I had a fellow offer me 80% of my asking price. After I stopped
laughing, I told him no. He called back after I had sold the boat and
when I told him the boat was gone, he seemed really disappointed.
Awwwwwwww.