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Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
I'm looking at a nice little fishing boat/cruiser with a Detroit 353,
only about 1000 hours on it, runs great. I know this is one of the more reliable diesels ever made, but I have heard some not-so-good things about the ones that came with aluminum blocks. The boat was built in 1987, so the engine is at least that old. The owner doesn't know much about it. Is there a way to tell which version it is? Thanks, Bob |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
What are you asking here? How to tell if the block is aluminum or not? Try a
magnet. 42 "Bob" wrote in message ups.com... I'm looking at a nice little fishing boat/cruiser with a Detroit 353, only about 1000 hours on it, runs great. I know this is one of the more reliable diesels ever made, but I have heard some not-so-good things about the ones that came with aluminum blocks. The boat was built in 1987, so the engine is at least that old. The owner doesn't know much about it. Is there a way to tell which version it is? Thanks, Bob -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Aug 19, 8:54 pm, "42etus" wrote:
What are you asking here? How to tell if the block is aluminum or not? Try a magnet. 42 "Bob" wrote in message ups.com... I'm looking at a nice little fishing boat/cruiser with a Detroit 353, only about 1000 hours on it, runs great. I know this is one of the more reliable diesels ever made, but I have heard some not-so-good things about the ones that came with aluminum blocks. The boat was built in 1987, so the engine is at least that old. The owner doesn't know much about it. Is there a way to tell which version it is? Thanks, Bob -- Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com Uh, duh --- I plead brain fart! Sometime the obvious solution just ain't so obvious. Of course... Anybody know what the problems with the AL block versions might be? Haven't heard any specifics, just "don't get one with an aluminum block". |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Bob,
Just make sure to check the block and the heads separate of eachother. It's very common for an iron block to be mated with aluminum heads. Respects, Rob Fraser Fraser Competition Engines Chicago, IL. "Bob" wrote in message oups.com... On Aug 19, 8:54 pm, "42etus" wrote: What are you asking here? How to tell if the block is aluminum or not? Try a magnet. 42 "Bob" wrote in message ups.com... I'm looking at a nice little fishing boat/cruiser with a Detroit 353, only about 1000 hours on it, runs great. I know this is one of the more reliable diesels ever made, but I have heard some not-so-good things about the ones that came with aluminum blocks. The boat was built in 1987, so the engine is at least that old. The owner doesn't know much about it. Is there a way to tell which version it is? Thanks, Bob -- Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com Uh, duh --- I plead brain fart! Sometime the obvious solution just ain't so obvious. Of course... Anybody know what the problems with the AL block versions might be? Haven't heard any specifics, just "don't get one with an aluminum block". |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Aug 19, 11:14 pm, "RDF" wrote:
Bob, Just make sure to check the block and the heads separate of eachother. It's very common for an iron block to be mated with aluminum heads. Respects, Rob Fraser Fraser Competition Engines Chicago, IL. "Bob" wrote in message oups.com... On Aug 19, 8:54 pm, "42etus" wrote: What are you asking here? How to tell if the block is aluminum or not? Try a magnet. 42 "Bob" wrote in message roups.com... I'm looking at a nice little fishing boat/cruiser with a Detroit 353, only about 1000 hours on it, runs great. I know this is one of the more reliable diesels ever made, but I have heard some not-so-good things about the ones that came with aluminum blocks. The boat was built in 1987, so the engine is at least that old. The owner doesn't know much about it. Is there a way to tell which version it is? Thanks, Bob -- Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com Uh, duh --- I plead brain fart! Sometime the obvious solution just ain't so obvious. Of course... Anybody know what the problems with the AL block versions might be? Haven't heard any specifics, just "don't get one with an aluminum block".- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'm not sure if detroit had any engines with aluminum heads, and I'm amazed to know they did produce a diesel with an aluminum block. I would say that the majority of problems would be electrolisis (sp) eating away the block especially if raw water cooling in salt water. also the problem with mis matching materials (AL block, copper gasket, and cast iron head) would be the expansion and contraction issue witht he aluminum eventually wearing the head gaskets out. But don't know that for a fact. Wow, a 3-53 in a boat"? 159 cubic inches! is this for a gen set? or the main engine? |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
"Tim" wrote in message ps.com... On Aug 19, 11:14 pm, "RDF" wrote: Bob, Just make sure to check the block and the heads separate of eachother. It's very common for an iron block to be mated with aluminum heads. Respects, Rob Fraser Fraser Competition Engines Chicago, IL. "Bob" wrote in message oups.com... On Aug 19, 8:54 pm, "42etus" wrote: What are you asking here? How to tell if the block is aluminum or not? Try a magnet. 42 "Bob" wrote in message roups.com... I'm looking at a nice little fishing boat/cruiser with a Detroit 353, only about 1000 hours on it, runs great. I know this is one of the more reliable diesels ever made, but I have heard some not-so-good things about the ones that came with aluminum blocks. The boat was built in 1987, so the engine is at least that old. The owner doesn't know much about it. Is there a way to tell which version it is? Thanks, Bob -- Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com Uh, duh --- I plead brain fart! Sometime the obvious solution just ain't so obvious. Of course... Anybody know what the problems with the AL block versions might be? Haven't heard any specifics, just "don't get one with an aluminum block".- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'm not sure if detroit had any engines with aluminum heads, and I'm amazed to know they did produce a diesel with an aluminum block. I would say that the majority of problems would be electrolisis (sp) eating away the block especially if raw water cooling in salt water. also the problem with mis matching materials (AL block, copper gasket, and cast iron head) would be the expansion and contraction issue witht he aluminum eventually wearing the head gaskets out. But don't know that for a fact. Wow, a 3-53 in a boat"? 159 cubic inches! Yes, but it being a 2 Cycle multiply that by 2 and add a blower. Steve is this for a gen set? or the main engine? |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Aug 19, 10:35 pm, Tim wrote:
On Aug 19, 11:14 pm, "RDF" wrote: Bob, Just make sure to check the block and the heads separate of eachother. It's very common for an iron block to be mated with aluminum heads. Respects, Rob Fraser Fraser Competition Engines Chicago, IL. "Bob" wrote in message roups.com... On Aug 19, 8:54 pm, "42etus" wrote: What are you asking here? How to tell if the block is aluminum or not? Try a magnet. 42 "Bob" wrote in message roups.com... I'm looking at a nice little fishing boat/cruiser with a Detroit 353, only about 1000 hours on it, runs great. I know this is one of the more reliable diesels ever made, but I have heard some not-so-good things about the ones that came with aluminum blocks. The boat was built in 1987, so the engine is at least that old. The owner doesn't know much about it. Is there a way to tell which version it is? Thanks, Bob -- Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com Uh, duh --- I plead brain fart! Sometime the obvious solution just ain't so obvious. Of course... Anybody know what the problems with the AL block versions might be? Haven't heard any specifics, just "don't get one with an aluminum block".- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'm not sure if detroit had any engines with aluminum heads, and I'm amazed to know they did produce a diesel with an aluminum block. I would say that the majority of problems would be electrolisis (sp) eating away the block especially if raw water cooling in salt water. also the problem with mis matching materials (AL block, copper gasket, and cast iron head) would be the expansion and contraction issue witht he aluminum eventually wearing the head gaskets out. But don't know that for a fact. Wow, a 3-53 in a boat"? 159 cubic inches! is this for a gen set? or the main engine?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Tim -- Yep, they used to be pretty common main engines in small workboats and utility craft, now mostly used for deck engines and gen sets. The marine engine configuration produces just over 100 hp naturally aspirated. Bob |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Bob wrote: Wow, a 3-53 in a boat"? 159 cubic inches! is this for a gen set? or the main engine?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Tim -- Yep, they used to be pretty common main engines in small workboats and utility craft, now mostly used for deck engines and gen sets. The marine engine configuration produces just over 100 hp naturally aspirated. Bob Interesting. I know the old 6-71 "jimmy" was a 426 CID and was rated at 238 hp in a standard (not marine) configuration. So I'm amazed that the little 3-53 can obtain 100hp. |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:43:25 -0700, Bob wrote:
I'm looking at a nice little fishing boat/cruiser with a Detroit 353, only about 1000 hours on it, runs great. I know this is one of the more reliable diesels ever made, but I have heard some not-so-good things about the ones that came with aluminum blocks. The boat was built in 1987, so the engine is at least that old. The owner doesn't know much about it. Is there a way to tell which version it is? Thanks, Bob Dunno about Detroit Diesel in particular, but in general I know that an aluminum block engine will last forever if it's designed right (i.e. if it's not a Vega engine) and it's maintained right. "Maintained right" for an Al block engine requires a lot more attention to the coolant than Fe block engines, which is why so many die early deaths in automotive applications. If, as mentioned in another post, they're running salt water through it's veins you can probably take it as "not designed right". -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Not sure why we're crossposting to re.crafts.metalworking so I trimmed
it. Feel free to post there again if you think we should though. Tim wrote: Wow, a 3-53 in a boat"? 159 cubic inches! Bob wrote: Yep, they used to be pretty common main engines in small workboats and utility craft, now mostly used for deck engines and gen sets. The marine engine configuration produces just over 100 hp naturally aspirated. Tim: Interesting. I know the old 6-71 "jimmy" was a 426 CID and was rated at 238 hp in a standard (not marine) configuration. So I'm amazed that the little 3-53 can obtain 100hp. I was in charge of a 35' Bruno-Stillman for a number of years so I'm fairly familiar with a Detroit 4-53. It was a 212 cu in, 4 cylinder, 2 stroke, 140hp, with a blower. It could cruise on semi-plane at about 11-12 knots. As a club Committee Boat, it had to be idiot proof and it was definitely that. We had no serious problems with it from the time it was new in '77 until we lost it in Katrina in '05. Rick |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
wrote: Not sure why we're crossposting to re.crafts.metalworking so I trimmed it. Feel free to post there again if you think we should though. Sorry, I really didn't look to see it was being cross-posted. My bad. THANKS! Tim: Interesting. I know the old 6-71 "jimmy" was a 426 CID and was rated at 238 hp in a standard (not marine) configuration. So I'm amazed that the little 3-53 can obtain 100hp. I was in charge of a 35' Bruno-Stillman for a number of years so I'm fairly familiar with a Detroit 4-53. It was a 212 cu in, 4 cylinder, 2 stroke, 140hp, with a blower. It could cruise on semi-plane at about 11-12 knots. As a club Committee Boat, it had to be idiot proof and it was definitely that. We had no serious problems with it from the time it was new in '77 until we lost it in Katrina in '05. I take it that when you say "blower" you are taking about a turbocharger? I can see that 4-53 being more believable with a turbochargercranking 140 hp , but I don't see how a "naturally aspirated" 3-53 can achieve 100 hp. No need to prove anything to me, but I'm just a bit skeptical. Rick |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Phantman wrote:
Detroit 4-53. It was a 212 cu in, 4 cylinder, 2 stroke, 140hp, with a blower. Tim: I take it that when you say "blower" you are taking about a turbocharger? Not sure why the operator's manual and literature call it a "blower" rather than a turgocharger. Looks like a turbocharger to me. Rick |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Well the two-cycle detroits have a "blower" (supercharger) mounted on
the side of the block being necessary for engine operation it looks like something off the top of a dragster engine. But Detroits terminology I'm really not familiar with. wether they are calling a turbo a "blower" or not, or calling the supercharger a "blower". It can be sort of confusing, or to me it is. wrote: Phantman wrote: Detroit 4-53. It was a 212 cu in, 4 cylinder, 2 stroke, 140hp, with a blower. Tim: I take it that when you say "blower" you are taking about a turbocharger? Not sure why the operator's manual and literature call it a "blower" rather than a turgocharger. Looks like a turbocharger to me. Rick |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Tim wrote:
Well the two-cycle detroits have a "blower" (supercharger) mounted on the side of the block Correct wether they are calling a turbo a "blower" or not, or calling the supercharger a "blower". It can be sort of confusing, or to me it is. The primary difference between a turbo and a supercharger is the way the blower is driven. A turbo by exhaust gases, and a supercharger by gears, belts, or chains. IIRC, the Detroit blower isn't driven by the exhaust, so I guess technically, it wouldn't be a turbocharger. Supercharger maybe, but for some reason Detroit just uses the term "blower" all through its literature. Rick |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Aug 20, 6:45 pm, wrote:
Tim wrote: Well the two-cycle detroits have a "blower" (supercharger) mounted on the side of the block Correct wether they are calling a turbo a "blower" or not, or calling the supercharger a "blower". It can be sort of confusing, or to me it is. The primary difference between a turbo and a supercharger is the way the blower is driven. A turbo by exhaust gases, and a supercharger by gears, belts, or chains. IIRC, the Detroit blower isn't driven by the exhaust, so I guess technically, it wouldn't be a turbocharger. Supercharger maybe, but for some reason Detroit just uses the term "blower" all through its literature. Rick Yes ick,I actually do know the difference between a Supercharger and a turbo charger, I was jsut wondering about the GM terminology concerning "blower" I'll accept that. ;) |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Aug 20, 6:45 pm, wrote:
Tim wrote: Well the two-cycle detroits have a "blower" (supercharger) mounted on the side of the block Correct wether they are calling a turbo a "blower" or not, or calling the supercharger a "blower". It can be sort of confusing, or to me it is. The primary difference between a turbo and a supercharger is the way the blower is driven. A turbo by exhaust gases, and a supercharger by gears, belts, or chains. IIRC, the Detroit blower isn't driven by the exhaust, so I guess technically, it wouldn't be a turbocharger. Supercharger maybe, but for some reason Detroit just uses the term "blower" all through its literature. Rick Yes, in their case it would be a "blower", seeing it pressurizes the cylinders to clean the exhaust and exchange the air in the cylinders.. |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Aug 20, 6:45 pm, wrote:
Tim wrote: Well the two-cycle detroits have a "blower" (supercharger) mounted on the side of the block Correct wether they are calling a turbo a "blower" or not, or calling the supercharger a "blower". It can be sort of confusing, or to me it is. The primary difference between a turbo and a supercharger is the way the blower is driven. A turbo by exhaust gases, and a supercharger by gears, belts, or chains. IIRC, the Detroit blower isn't driven by the exhaust, so I guess technically, it wouldn't be a turbocharger. Supercharger maybe, but for some reason Detroit just uses the term "blower" all through its literature. Rick My uncle used to have an old Gallion road grader with a 4-71, and interesting to note, it had a tube made into the casting that in cold weather to aid starting, you would put these "ether" pellets in the tube and they would drop down onto the blowers vanes, and when cranking the vanes would crush the pellets and sent the particles spraying into the cylinders.I thought that was kind of crude, but but it worked, but hey! the whole line of engines were kind of crude too! |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Aug 20, 10:41 am, Bob wrote:
Yep, they used to be pretty common main engines in small workboats and utility craft, now mostly used for deck engines and gen sets. The marine engine configuration produces just over 100 hp naturally aspirated. Bob- Bob, by searching around the typical listings on a naturally aspirated 3-53 is about 75 hp. Which I feel is more realistic. I could be wrong, though. http://www.usedboats.com/index.php?s...istoryback =1 |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
"Tim" wrote in message ps.com... On Aug 20, 10:41 am, Bob wrote: Yep, they used to be pretty common main engines in small workboats and utility craft, now mostly used for deck engines and gen sets. The marine engine configuration produces just over 100 hp naturally aspirated. Bob- Bob, by searching around the typical listings on a naturally aspirated 3-53 is about 75 hp. Which I feel is more realistic. I could be wrong, though. http://www.usedboats.com/index.php?s...istoryback =1 http://www.adieselengine.com/new_page_1.htm shows 101 hp for the 3-53 and 175 for the 3-53T And since it shows a T I would assume turbocharged. As the 6-71 with a blower was a 6V-71. the same blower that was used for years on dragsters and driven via a Gilmer belt. |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:00:33 -0700, Tim wrote:
Interesting. I know the old 6-71 "jimmy" was a 426 CID and was rated at 238 hp in a standard (not marine) configuration. So I'm amazed that the little 3-53 can obtain 100hp. The naturally aspirated (non-turbocharged) 6-71 can produce up to 320 hp depending on the injectors used. I have the Johnson & Towers 280 hp version on my trawler. |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Tim wrote:
you would put these "ether" pellets in the tube and they would drop down onto the blowers vanes, and when cranking the vanes would crush the pellets and sent the particles spraying into the cylinders. LoL! Luv it! :-D .... and I thought I was dealing with ancient technology when I had a sailboat with a little 4 cylinder Perkins with a heater that was supposed to warm up somethin' er other for cold weather starting. Fortunately, I live so far south I never had to use it. Rick |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:00:33 -0700, Tim wrote:
Bob wrote: Wow, a 3-53 in a boat"? 159 cubic inches! is this for a gen set? or the main engine?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Tim -- Yep, they used to be pretty common main engines in small workboats and utility craft, now mostly used for deck engines and gen sets. The marine engine configuration produces just over 100 hp naturally aspirated. Bob Interesting. I know the old 6-71 "jimmy" was a 426 CID and was rated at 238 hp in a standard (not marine) configuration. So I'm amazed that the little 3-53 can obtain 100hp. If you have worked around the 71 series and somebody lights off a 53 you'll figure out real quick how they got that horsepower. They were real screamers for their day. The only ones I worked on were in 5 ton yard cranes but I believe there was a turbo option for them also. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Aug 20, 11:03 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message ps.com... On Aug 20, 10:41 am, Bob wrote: Yep, they used to be pretty common main engines in small workboats and utility craft, now mostly used for deck engines and gen sets. The marine engine configuration produces just over 100 hp naturally aspirated. Bob- Bob, by searching around the typical listings on a naturally aspirated 3-53 is about 75 hp. Which I feel is more realistic. I could be wrong, though. http://www.usedboats.com/index.php?s...om§ion=search&.... http://www.adieselengine.com/new_page_1.htm shows 101 hp for the 3-53 and 175 for the 3-53T And since it shows a T I would assume turbocharged. As the 6-71 with a blower was a 6V-71. the same blower that was used for years on dragsters and driven via a Gilmer belt. Oh OK, I see they're pushing it up to 2800 rpm, instead of the customary 2100 max. That might be the clue to the 100 hp. |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Aug 20, 11:09 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:00:33 -0700, Tim wrote: Interesting. I know the old 6-71 "jimmy" was a 426 CID and was rated at 238 hp in a standard (not marine) configuration. So I'm amazed that the little 3-53 can obtain 100hp. The naturally aspirated (non-turbocharged) 6-71 can produce up to 320 hp depending on the injectors used. I have the Johnson & Towers 280 hp version on my trawler. I didn't realize that Wayne. Thanks! But then again when I was talking the lower hp ranges, I was mentioning "standard" version of the engines, too. |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Calif Bill wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message ps.com... On Aug 20, 10:41 am, Bob wrote: Yep, they used to be pretty common main engines in small workboats and utility craft, now mostly used for deck engines and gen sets. The marine engine configuration produces just over 100 hp naturally aspirated. Bob- Bob, by searching around the typical listings on a naturally aspirated 3-53 is about 75 hp. Which I feel is more realistic. I could be wrong, though. http://www.usedboats.com/index.php?s...istoryback =1 http://www.adieselengine.com/new_page_1.htm shows 101 hp for the 3-53 and 175 for the 3-53T And since it shows a T I would assume turbocharged. As the 6-71 with a blower was a 6V-71. the same blower that was used for years on dragsters and driven via a Gilmer belt. All two-stroke Detroits have a blower. It's necessary to the operation of the engine, does the job that crankcase pressure does in a little two-stroke. On the inline motors it mounts on the side of the block. John |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
"JohnM" wrote in message m... All two-stroke Detroits have a blower. It's necessary to the operation of the engine, does the job that crankcase pressure does in a little two-stroke. On the inline motors it mounts on the side of the block. John If a "blower" is defined by you as a turbo (i.e. .., device to increase air flow into the cylinders), then you are in error. I know several people with 2 stroke DD 6-71's. Some are naturally aspirated, some have turbos (blowers). Eisboch |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Eisboch wrote:
"JohnM" wrote in message m... All two-stroke Detroits have a blower. It's necessary to the operation of the engine, does the job that crankcase pressure does in a little two-stroke. On the inline motors it mounts on the side of the block. John If a "blower" is defined by you as a turbo (i.e. .., device to increase air flow into the cylinders), then you are in error. I know several people with 2 stroke DD 6-71's. Some are naturally aspirated, some have turbos (blowers). Eisboch A "blower" generally refers to a direct driven super charger, not an exhaust driven turbo charger. |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:27:55 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote: Eisboch wrote: "JohnM" wrote in message m... All two-stroke Detroits have a blower. It's necessary to the operation of the engine, does the job that crankcase pressure does in a little two-stroke. On the inline motors it mounts on the side of the block. John If a "blower" is defined by you as a turbo (i.e. .., device to increase air flow into the cylinders), then you are in error. I know several people with 2 stroke DD 6-71's. Some are naturally aspirated, some have turbos (blowers). Eisboch A "blower" generally refers to a direct driven super charger, not an exhaust driven turbo charger. The Detroit Diesel is a two stroke, diesel. The piston goes down on the power stroke and comes up on the compression stroke. Without the mechanical driven "blower" which simply blows air in through the cylinder ports and through the exhaust ports at the beginning of the compression stroke there would be no way to get a charge of air into the engine. If you wanted to increase the pressure and volume of this air flow you could add a exhaust driven compressor before the "blower", But you must have the "blower" for the engine to run. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
wrote in message ... On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:27:55 GMT, "Pete C." wrote: Eisboch wrote: "JohnM" wrote in message m... All two-stroke Detroits have a blower. It's necessary to the operation of the engine, does the job that crankcase pressure does in a little two-stroke. On the inline motors it mounts on the side of the block. John If a "blower" is defined by you as a turbo (i.e. .., device to increase air flow into the cylinders), then you are in error. I know several people with 2 stroke DD 6-71's. Some are naturally aspirated, some have turbos (blowers). Eisboch A "blower" generally refers to a direct driven super charger, not an exhaust driven turbo charger. The Detroit Diesel is a two stroke, diesel. The piston goes down on the power stroke and comes up on the compression stroke. Without the mechanical driven "blower" which simply blows air in through the cylinder ports and through the exhaust ports at the beginning of the compression stroke there would be no way to get a charge of air into the engine. If you wanted to increase the pressure and volume of this air flow you could add a exhaust driven compressor before the "blower", But you must have the "blower" for the engine to run. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) Gotcha. I was confusing "blower" with turbocharger as Pete C. pointed out. Eisboch |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Eisboch wrote
If a "blower" is defined by you as a turbo (i.e. .., device to increase air flow into the cylinders), then you are in error. I know several people with 2 stroke DD 6-71's. Some are naturally aspirated, some have turbos (blowers). Eisboch Richard, All 2 stroke DD series whether inline or V configuration 71- 53's- 92's even the old 110's etc.. have blowers, Naturally aspirated (NA) or turbocharged (TI) . The 6v53 in my boat is a NA with a blower. UD |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
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Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:30:16 -0700, UglyDan®©™ penned the following
well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: Eisboch wrote If a "blower" is defined by you as a turbo (i.e. .., device to increase air flow into the cylinders), then you are in error. I know several people with 2 stroke DD 6-71's. Some are naturally aspirated, some have turbos (blowers). Eisboch Richard, All 2 stroke DD series whether inline or V configuration 71- 53's- 92's even the old 110's etc.. have blowers, Naturally aspirated (NA) or turbocharged (TI) . The 6v53 in my boat is a NA with a blower. UD An engine is, by definition, either naturally aspirated or not. If it has a blower (supercharger) or turbocharger it is not naturally aspirated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturally-aspirated_engine -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
wrote in message ... On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:27:55 GMT, "Pete C." wrote: Eisboch wrote: "JohnM" wrote in message m... All two-stroke Detroits have a blower. It's necessary to the operation of the engine, does the job that crankcase pressure does in a little two-stroke. On the inline motors it mounts on the side of the block. John If a "blower" is defined by you as a turbo (i.e. .., device to increase air flow into the cylinders), then you are in error. I know several people with 2 stroke DD 6-71's. Some are naturally aspirated, some have turbos (blowers). Eisboch A "blower" generally refers to a direct driven super charger, not an exhaust driven turbo charger. The Detroit Diesel is a two stroke, diesel. The piston goes down on the power stroke and comes up on the compression stroke. Without the mechanical driven "blower" which simply blows air in through the cylinder ports and through the exhaust ports at the beginning of the compression stroke there would be no way to get a charge of air into the engine. If you wanted to increase the pressure and volume of this air flow you could add a exhaust driven compressor before the "blower", But you must have the "blower" for the engine to run. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) On large stationary diesel generators using Detroit diesels, there a often both shaft driven " blowers" and turbochargers. The blowers are used to start the engine and get it up to speed. Afterwards, the blowers are cut off by damper valves and the turbochargers take over the air supply job. This is done because the overall engine efficiency is better using the turbochargers. Randy |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:18:57 -0400, Gene Kearns penned the following
well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:30:16 -0700, UglyDan®©™ penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: Eisboch wrote If a "blower" is defined by you as a turbo (i.e. .., device to increase air flow into the cylinders), then you are in error. I know several people with 2 stroke DD 6-71's. Some are naturally aspirated, some have turbos (blowers). Eisboch Richard, All 2 stroke DD series whether inline or V configuration 71- 53's- 92's even the old 110's etc.. have blowers, Naturally aspirated (NA) or turbocharged (TI) . The 6v53 in my boat is a NA with a blower. UD An engine is, by definition, either naturally aspirated or not. If it has a blower (supercharger) or turbocharger it is not naturally aspirated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturally-aspirated_engine Hmmmm.... are you saying that this is an "altitude" engine and is equipped with a "sea level" boost? It might make some sense if you are boating at 10,000 feet, otherwise I don't get it. Even if turbonormalized, the engine is not NA...... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Aug 22, 8:18 am, Gene Kearns
wrote: On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:30:16 -0700, UglyDan®©™ penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: Eisboch wrote If a "blower" is defined by you as a turbo (i.e. .., device to increase air flow into the cylinders), then you are in error. I know several people with 2 stroke DD 6-71's. Some are naturally aspirated, some have turbos (blowers). Eisboch Richard, All 2 stroke DD series whether inline or V configuration 71- 53's- 92's even the old 110's etc.. have blowers, Naturally aspirated (NA) or turbocharged (TI) . The 6v53 in my boat is a NA with a blower. UD An engine is, by definition, either naturally aspirated or not. If it has a blower (supercharger) or turbocharger it is not naturally aspirated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturally-aspirated_engine -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Technically, you are correct, but since ALL Detroit Diesel (and their precursors, the "Jimmies") 2-strokes have crankcase blowers by design, the convention has always been to call an otherwise unenhanced engine "naturally aspirated" (NA), and add the appropriate moniker if also turbo-charged with or without cooling (T, TI, TIA). By design, without the crankcase blower, a DD won't run. Regards, Bob Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats -----------------www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com- *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Is anyone at rec.crafts.metalworking reading this thread??
If not, I suggest we (at rec.boats) stop further crossposting there. On Wed, 22 Aug 07, jtay wrote: Neither being a two-stroke nor using diesel oil (nor indeed the combination) requires a blower/turbo for such an engine to operate. Running a Detroit 4-53 without a blower (and maybe all Detroit 2 strokes -shrug- I dunno) would indeed take a complete and major league re-design. Not just a few bolt on changes for sure. Rick |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
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Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:18:57 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote: An engine is, by definition, either naturally aspirated or not. If it has a blower (supercharger) or turbocharger it is not naturally aspirated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturally-aspirated_engine That may be true in a strictly technical sense, and true for all gas engines and 4 stroke diesels, but "naturally aspirated" 2 stroke Detroit Diesels are commonly understood to be without a turbocharger since all DDs have a blower just to move air into the cylinders. |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
Gene Kearns:
If it has a blower (supercharger) or turbocharger it is not naturally aspirated. Wayne.B: but "naturally aspirated" 2 stroke Detroit Diesels are commonly understood to be without a turbocharger since all DDs have a blower just to move air into the cylinders. Okay, I think I'm gettin' it now. I was thinking the DD "blower" was just another term for "supercharger" but it's not. The "blower" just provides the normal air pressure required to run the engine (other 2 stroke designs do the same thing with crankcase vacuum/pressure). But a "supercharger" would provide more than that. An extra (super) boost so to speak. Thus the use of separate terminology. Izat about right? Rick |
Detroit 353 diesel -- aluminum block? How to tell?
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