Low transoms again
 

"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..


1. The transom would rise and fall with the wave action.

2. Boat wake and any waves would hit the transom, and it would rise and
fall with the wave action. You might get a bit of water on the deck.
Maybe.


Just for giggles, take your shoes off, get 'er up on plane, then quickly
pull the throttle back to idle as if you suddenly lost power.

Eisboch


I've done that in boats with shorter transoms. Sometimes a little water
came aboard, sometimes it did not. I suppose if I really were worried
about getting my feet wet in a small open boat, I could wear boots.

Please realize that I am not being critical of your new boat nor of open/cut
transom designs. They are fine for those who, like yourself, are experienced
boaters and are knowledgeable of their boat limitations.

The danger is when someone without any knowledge buys an open transom boat
and assumes it should self bail and be ok because, heck, "they" built it
this way. The problem is that an open transom boat is very susceptible to
taking on water over the stern and not all of that water is necessarily
drained. It often enters the bilge area through cutouts or deck hatches
that are not watertight. Enough of this and the bilge pump (assuming it's
working) can't always keep up and the boat starts to sit lower in the water
at the stern, compounding the problem. People new to boating who are drift
fishing with the stern to chop, wakes or building seas may not realize the
point at which the boat has lost enough buoyancy to become dangerous.

Another issue that isn't always realized is the capacity of a bilge pump.
Just because it may be rated at "1500 gph" or "2000 gph", the actual pumping
capacity is far less than that due to drain hose length and type. The
conductance of the hoses used on bilge pumps dramatically cuts the actual
pumping capacity, especially the common "ribbed" construction type typically
found at West Marine.

Eisboch

Low transoms again
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..


1. The transom would rise and fall with the wave action.

2. Boat wake and any waves would hit the transom, and it would rise and
fall with the wave action. You might get a bit of water on the deck.
Maybe.


Just for giggles, take your shoes off, get 'er up on plane, then quickly
pull the throttle back to idle as if you suddenly lost power.

Eisboch



Eisboch,
When I had a 20' runabout with a full 24" high transom, I would get a
monster wave rushing towards the boat and some water would still come
over the transom. You would have drop the slowly so the wake would
dissipate before coming off plane.

My cruiser will bring in a wave, but the transmo is high enough that
nothing comes on board.

Low transoms again
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..

1. The transom would rise and fall with the wave action.

2. Boat wake and any waves would hit the transom, and it would rise and
fall with the wave action. You might get a bit of water on the deck.
Maybe.

Just for giggles, take your shoes off, get 'er up on plane, then quickly
pull the throttle back to idle as if you suddenly lost power.

Eisboch

I've done that in boats with shorter transoms. Sometimes a little water
came aboard, sometimes it did not. I suppose if I really were worried
about getting my feet wet in a small open boat, I could wear boots.

Please realize that I am not being critical of your new boat nor of open/cut
transom designs. They are fine for those who, like yourself, are experienced
boaters and are knowledgeable of their boat limitations.

The danger is when someone without any knowledge buys an open transom boat
and assumes it should self bail and be ok because, heck, "they" built it
this way. The problem is that an open transom boat is very susceptible to
taking on water over the stern and not all of that water is necessarily
drained. It often enters the bilge area through cutouts or deck hatches
that are not watertight. Enough of this and the bilge pump (assuming it's
working) can't always keep up and the boat starts to sit lower in the water
at the stern, compounding the problem. People new to boating who are drift
fishing with the stern to chop, wakes or building seas may not realize the
point at which the boat has lost enough buoyancy to become dangerous.

Another issue that isn't always realized is the capacity of a bilge pump.
Just because it may be rated at "1500 gph" or "2000 gph", the actual pumping
capacity is far less than that due to drain hose length and type. The
conductance of the hoses used on bilge pumps dramatically cuts the actual
pumping capacity, especially the common "ribbed" construction type typically
found at West Marine.

Eisboch



Richard,

Your points are exactly why I think this has been a valuable discussion.
Even Harry's original position was that if you know how to handle a
boat, you will not have any water coming on board.

Low transoms again
 

On Aug 16, 10:59 am, "rom" wrote:
"Steve P" wrote in message

...







"HK" wrote in message
...

I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned
and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly
straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I
encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom.

I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess
were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class
as Harry's.

http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv

Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either.

What if -

1- You were just drifting and not under way?

or

2- You suddenly had a crab trap line wrap around your prop, stalling the
engine?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie_1.wmv

These movies were taken while we were bucking an outgoing tide at the
entrance to the Cape Cod Canal. We were idling which usually gives us
around 3 knots. My GPS was indicating 1 to 2 knots SOG but in this
case I believe it was actually reporting our backwards progress.
Notice that the waves are overtaking us.

1- You were just drifting and not under way?

A1. - Well, we did stop several times to mess with our lines. No water
came into the boat. My boat, like most other boats I've been on, will
tend to lay broadside to the waves when not under power. As you can
see in the clip, it takes quite a bit of wheel input to keep on
course.

2- You suddenly had a crab trap line wrap around your prop, stalling the
engine?-

A2. - In this situation if the line was still anchored to the bottom I
think that the current would have carried us backward and the bow
would have swung around and would be pointing into the waves. If the
line were free then I'd probably end up drifting broadside to the
waves. I agree that having a disabled motor does introduce a whole new
set of opportunities for the situation to get worse.

Steve P.

Low transoms again
 

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:11:47 -0700,
wrote:

http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie_1.wmv

These movies were taken while we were bucking an outgoing tide at the
entrance to the Cape Cod Canal. We were idling which usually gives us
around 3 knots. My GPS was indicating 1 to 2 knots SOG but in this
case I believe it was actually reporting our backwards progress.
Notice that the waves are overtaking us.

Help me out here.

You were heading into an outgoing tide at the Canal?

Because that doesn't make any sense.

Low transoms again
 

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:05:24 -0400, "Steve P"
wrote:


"HK" wrote in message
...




I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned
and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly
straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I
encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom.

I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were
2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as
Harry's.

http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv

Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either.


Agreed, but those are not the conditions where people have gotten into
trouble because the boat is moving along nicely in the same direction
as the waves. The problems start when the boat is stopped. This can
happen if someone carelessly anchors from the stern, or more commonly,
when someone "accidently" gets anchored from the stern because they
are snagged on something. The first reaction of most folks in that
situation is for one or more people to go to the stern of the boat
decreasing the already low freeboard. Along comes a wave that is a
little bigger than average and the boat becomes swamped with water.
Remember that this is not a hypothetical condition, it actually
happens to people from time to time, experienced people.

What happens next depends on both luck and whether or not the boat has
level flotation capability. Quite a few boats capsize when swamped
due to loss of stability, and quite a few sink because they lack
adequate flotation.

This is not to say that boats lacking flotation are unsafe, quite the
contrary. Boats that lack flotation need other qualities however:
adequate freeboard for conditions, self draining cockpits with large
scuppers, positive latches on hatch and compartment covers, etc.

None of this is to say that Harry bought a dangerous boat that is at
immediate risk of sinking. Anyone buying that kind of boat needs to
be aware of the risks however and make special effort to avoid them.

Low transoms again
 

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:03:30 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Your points are exactly why I think this has been a valuable discussion.
Even Harry's original position was that if you know how to handle a
boat, you will not have any water coming on board.

That position is correct only if "knowing how to handle a boat" means
avoiding potential problems by staying out of adverse conditions.
Water will most definitely come aboard in a big way under the right
circumstances. The skill is in avoiding those circumstances.

Low transoms again
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:05:24 -0400, "Steve P"
wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
. ..


I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned
and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly
straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I
encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom.
I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were
2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as
Harry's.

http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv

Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either.


Agreed, but those are not the conditions where people have gotten into
trouble because the boat is moving along nicely in the same direction
as the waves. The problems start when the boat is stopped. This can
happen if someone carelessly anchors from the stern, or more commonly,
when someone "accidently" gets anchored from the stern because they
are snagged on something. The first reaction of most folks in that
situation is for one or more people to go to the stern of the boat
decreasing the already low freeboard. Along comes a wave that is a
little bigger than average and the boat becomes swamped with water.
Remember that this is not a hypothetical condition, it actually
happens to people from time to time, experienced people.

What happens next depends on both luck and whether or not the boat has
level flotation capability. Quite a few boats capsize when swamped
due to loss of stability, and quite a few sink because they lack
adequate flotation.

This is not to say that boats lacking flotation are unsafe, quite the
contrary. Boats that lack flotation need other qualities however:
adequate freeboard for conditions, self draining cockpits with large
scuppers, positive latches on hatch and compartment covers, etc.

None of this is to say that Harry bought a dangerous boat that is at
immediate risk of sinking. Anyone buying that kind of boat needs to
be aware of the risks however and make special effort to avoid them.



I'll be sure to remember this the next time I anchor a small boat from
the stern. The last time I did this...hmmmmm...I've never anchored a
small boat from the stern. Oh well.

Low transoms again
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:03:30 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Your points are exactly why I think this has been a valuable discussion.
Even Harry's original position was that if you know how to handle a
boat, you will not have any water coming on board.

That position is correct only if "knowing how to handle a boat" means
avoiding potential problems by staying out of adverse conditions.
Water will most definitely come aboard in a big way under the right
circumstances. The skill is in avoiding those circumstances.


Ahh, Reggie *Retardo* yet *again*. I doubt I've ever posted that if you
know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board.

I'm more convinced than ever that *R. Retardo* doesn't have a boat.

Low transoms again
 

HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:03:30 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Your points are exactly why I think this has been a valuable
discussion. Even Harry's original position was that if you know how
to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board.

That position is correct only if "knowing how to handle a boat" means
avoiding potential problems by staying out of adverse conditions.
Water will most definitely come aboard in a big way under the right
circumstances. The skill is in avoiding those circumstances.


Ahh, Reggie *Retardo* yet *again*. I doubt I've ever posted that if you
know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board.

I'm more convinced than ever that *R. Retardo* doesn't have a boat.

Harry Krause,

I am willing to place a $10,000 bet that I do. If you will do the same
about your lobster boat, I will be $20,000 richer.