|
Low transoms again
Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and
darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way. I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you? Steve P. |
Low transoms again
Steve P wrote:
Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way. I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you? Steve P. Nope |
Low transoms again
"Steve P" wrote in message ... Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way. I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you? Steve P. We went out yesterday to take advantage of the fleeting summer weather boating days. On the way to the Lake I started taking notice of these "low transom" boats. I never paid attention to them before. I must have seen a dozen, including a Grady White and Contender, amongst others, some with the cutout transom area within just a few inches of the waterline. Among these boats aproximately 1/2 half had a splashwell. |
Low transoms again
JimH wrote:
"Steve P" wrote in message ... Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way. I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you? Steve P. We went out yesterday to take advantage of the fleeting summer weather boating days. On the way to the Lake I started taking notice of these "low transom" boats. I never paid attention to them before. I must have seen a dozen, including a Grady White and Contender, amongst others, some with the cutout transom area within just a few inches of the waterline. Among these boats aproximately 1/2 half had a splashwell. I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. When we lived in NE Florida, I used to run several very dangerous inlets that, when you were coming towards land, had substantial breaking waves rolling constantly towards the transom of my boats. These, by the way, were boats with 20" transoms. Once in a while, a bit of water came aboard, not enough to float anything on the deck, and because the boats were properly designed, the water ran right out. It seems to be an issue for inexperienced boaters, inland boaters, and our newsgroup's several non-boating troublemakers. Their opinions matter not at all. Oh...about five years ago, when I first met a member of the Parker family, I actually asked why the company hadn't followed the "trend" towards making all its boats with what was then called "eurotransoms," or if not that, brackets. Three reasons, I was told: eurotransoms cut down on interior space in the boat and make it more difficult in small boats to reach fish off the transom, and brackets on smaller boats entirely change the balance of those boats in a negative way. One of my favorite boats when I was growing up was an Amesbury dory. It had a 15" transom. I drove that little boat as far as two six gallon tanks of gas would take me, and though it had a flat bottom and low sides, I never got in serious trouble in rough water. Mako, btw, used to make a 23 or 25 footer whose transom cutout was so low, it seemed to be only an inch or two about the waterline. Great fishing boat. Whatever water it took on board rushed right out the transom. Now, if I were a weekend floating condo owner on the mighty Lake Lanier, and boated on big waters only vicariously, I suppose I'd be so concerned I'd have to relocate to Derby, Kansas. |
Low transoms again
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:27:50 -0400, HK wrote:
brackets on smaller boats entirely change the balance of those boats in a negative way. I would have to disagree with them on this one. Brackets can improve the boat's handling by the simple addition of two or three feet - in effect it lengthens the boat which can result in increased speed, more reponsive trim and better planing performance. Which is not to say they have their less attractive points - in particular coming off plane, but that can be negated by the advantages. I'm also surprised that they would say something like this because I've seen Parker's with transom brackets on boats like yours. Maybe custom? |
Low transoms again
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:27:50 -0400, HK wrote: brackets on smaller boats entirely change the balance of those boats in a negative way. I would have to disagree with them on this one. Brackets can improve the boat's handling by the simple addition of two or three feet - in effect it lengthens the boat which can result in increased speed, more reponsive trim and better planing performance. Which is not to say they have their less attractive points - in particular coming off plane, but that can be negated by the advantages. I'm also surprised that they would say something like this because I've seen Parker's with transom brackets on boats like yours. Maybe custom? The Parker rep was referring to its smaller boats, those 21' or less. The Parker I just sold had a bracket, but it was a 25-footer. |
Low transoms again
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:27:50 -0400, HK penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: JimH wrote: "Steve P" wrote in message ... Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way. I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you? Steve P. We went out yesterday to take advantage of the fleeting summer weather boating days. On the way to the Lake I started taking notice of these "low transom" boats. I never paid attention to them before. I must have seen a dozen, including a Grady White and Contender, amongst others, some with the cutout transom area within just a few inches of the waterline. Among these boats aproximately 1/2 half had a splashwell. I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. When we lived in NE Florida, I used to run several very dangerous inlets that, when you were coming towards land, had substantial breaking waves rolling constantly towards the transom of my boats. These, by the way, were boats with 20" transoms. Once in a while, a bit of water came aboard, not enough to float anything on the deck, and because the boats were properly designed, the water ran right out. It seems to be an issue for inexperienced boaters, inland boaters, and our newsgroup's several non-boating troublemakers. Their opinions matter not at all. Oh...about five years ago, when I first met a member of the Parker family, I actually asked why the company hadn't followed the "trend" towards making all its boats with what was then called "eurotransoms," or if not that, brackets. Three reasons, I was told: eurotransoms cut down on interior space in the boat and make it more difficult in small boats to reach fish off the transom, and brackets on smaller boats entirely change the balance of those boats in a negative way. One of my favorite boats when I was growing up was an Amesbury dory. It had a 15" transom. I drove that little boat as far as two six gallon tanks of gas would take me, and though it had a flat bottom and low sides, I never got in serious trouble in rough water. Mako, btw, used to make a 23 or 25 footer whose transom cutout was so low, it seemed to be only an inch or two about the waterline. Great fishing boat. Whatever water it took on board rushed right out the transom. Now, if I were a weekend floating condo owner on the mighty Lake Lanier, and boated on big waters only vicariously, I suppose I'd be so concerned I'd have to relocate to Derby, Kansas. It might be noted that if one is taking much water over the (low) transom, one should be looking for the engines to aspirate some of that water... not good. Parker is quite correct in the matter of the bracket. It can be very difficult, in close quarters, to control a boat that has the power that far aft and that close together. I do prefer it to that butt-ugly "eurotransom" though. I have found that, in my boat, even with over 4 feet of freeboard at the bow, that is where I am most likely to take on my share of green water. I've never taken any over the transom, but have worried about the engines... In the most treacherous local inlet, even the 60' Hammerstrom will take a bit over the bow..... I've never seen any come over the transom.... ever, although the transom is fairly low.... If the boat is properly engineered, I think I'd pick something other than transom height to worry about.... Gene: Your email crapped out on me again, and a note I sent you bounced. Are you available Monday...or not? Your last note left me...confused. Oh...the new boat...for a 21-footer, it is just enormous, with a huge Carolina-like bow. Did a bit of "re-engineering" on the bow deck...with an anchor roller, a cleat and two chocks, instead of the standard pair of cleats. I'm looking for a 1" round piece of oak or hickory, about 6' long, on which to attach a traditional boat hook. There's something about those telescoping aluminum boathooks I don't like. |
Low transoms again
"Steve P" wrote in message ... Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way. I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you? Steve P. There is a bass fishing tournament on Lake Erie this week (saw it set up yesterday when heading out to the Lake..........official weigh in station is on the Vermilion River. Although we had fairly calm waters yesterday afternoon it is amazing to see bass boats on the Lake in 3-5+ footers (capping). These boats look like they have a freeboard of about a foot. How do these boat drain? Bilge pump only? |
Low transoms again
JimH wrote:
"Steve P" wrote in message ... Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way. I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you? Steve P. There is a bass fishing tournament on Lake Erie this week (saw it set up yesterday when heading out to the Lake..........official weigh in station is on the Vermilion River. Although we had fairly calm waters yesterday afternoon it is amazing to see bass boats on the Lake in 3-5+ footers (capping). These boats look like they have a freeboard of about a foot. How do these boat drain? Bilge pump only? Mostly. That's why they are mostly useful on lakes and mild rivers, though the larger bassboats have more freeboard. Not much deadrise, and sometimes an almost flat bottom. They're fine for their intended purpose until the water gets choppy. Very, very fast. |
Low transoms again
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:14:27 -0400, HK penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: Gene Kearns wrote: On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:27:50 -0400, HK penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: JimH wrote: "Steve P" wrote in message ... Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way. I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you? Steve P. We went out yesterday to take advantage of the fleeting summer weather boating days. On the way to the Lake I started taking notice of these "low transom" boats. I never paid attention to them before. I must have seen a dozen, including a Grady White and Contender, amongst others, some with the cutout transom area within just a few inches of the waterline. Among these boats aproximately 1/2 half had a splashwell. I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. When we lived in NE Florida, I used to run several very dangerous inlets that, when you were coming towards land, had substantial breaking waves rolling constantly towards the transom of my boats. These, by the way, were boats with 20" transoms. Once in a while, a bit of water came aboard, not enough to float anything on the deck, and because the boats were properly designed, the water ran right out. It seems to be an issue for inexperienced boaters, inland boaters, and our newsgroup's several non-boating troublemakers. Their opinions matter not at all. Oh...about five years ago, when I first met a member of the Parker family, I actually asked why the company hadn't followed the "trend" towards making all its boats with what was then called "eurotransoms," or if not that, brackets. Three reasons, I was told: eurotransoms cut down on interior space in the boat and make it more difficult in small boats to reach fish off the transom, and brackets on smaller boats entirely change the balance of those boats in a negative way. One of my favorite boats when I was growing up was an Amesbury dory. It had a 15" transom. I drove that little boat as far as two six gallon tanks of gas would take me, and though it had a flat bottom and low sides, I never got in serious trouble in rough water. Mako, btw, used to make a 23 or 25 footer whose transom cutout was so low, it seemed to be only an inch or two about the waterline. Great fishing boat. Whatever water it took on board rushed right out the transom. Now, if I were a weekend floating condo owner on the mighty Lake Lanier, and boated on big waters only vicariously, I suppose I'd be so concerned I'd have to relocate to Derby, Kansas. It might be noted that if one is taking much water over the (low) transom, one should be looking for the engines to aspirate some of that water... not good. Parker is quite correct in the matter of the bracket. It can be very difficult, in close quarters, to control a boat that has the power that far aft and that close together. I do prefer it to that butt-ugly "eurotransom" though. I have found that, in my boat, even with over 4 feet of freeboard at the bow, that is where I am most likely to take on my share of green water. I've never taken any over the transom, but have worried about the engines... In the most treacherous local inlet, even the 60' Hammerstrom will take a bit over the bow..... I've never seen any come over the transom.... ever, although the transom is fairly low.... If the boat is properly engineered, I think I'd pick something other than transom height to worry about.... Gene: Your email crapped out on me again, and a note I sent you bounced. Are you available Monday...or not? Your last note left me...confused. Nah... Monday I'll be working. No way I'll get out of that! All of my email should be working, now..... I lost the server for a couple of days due to an electrical storm, but everything should be ok, now.... Oh...the new boat...for a 21-footer, it is just enormous, with a huge Carolina-like bow. Did a bit of "re-engineering" on the bow deck...with an anchor roller, a cleat and two chocks, instead of the standard pair of cleats. I'm looking for a 1" round piece of oak or hickory, about 6' long, on which to attach a traditional boat hook. There's something about those telescoping aluminum boathooks I don't like. Hoe handle? Hmmm. Possibility, if I can find one with a 1" end, or someone with a substantial lathe...the boat hook fitting is typically 1" inside diameter. |
Low transoms again
"HK" wrote in message . .. I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as Harry's. http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either. |
Low transoms again
Steve P wrote:
"HK" wrote in message . .. I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as Harry's. http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either. But gosh, weren't you scared enough to give up salt water boating for some quiet little lake somewhere? |
Low transoms again
"Steve P" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message . .. I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as Harry's. http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either. What if - 1- You were just drifting and not under way? or 2- You suddenly had a crab trap line wrap around your prop, stalling the engine? |
Low transoms again
On Aug 16, 10:59 am, "rom" wrote:
"Steve P" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message ... I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as Harry's. http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either. What if - 1- You were just drifting and not under way? or 2- You suddenly had a crab trap line wrap around your prop, stalling the engine?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You could get a boatfull of water. I think about this with my skiff (low cut transom). The flotation would hopefully bring the boat to the surface, and the water would pour out the transom cut. My boat is 16 feet so it must float level. Then if the engine is running, you hit it and get more out, and I would bail to assist the bilge pump as I do not have a self bailing cockpit. The cut out is going to at least give me a foot or so out of the water. In my case, a high transom would be more of a problem in a swamp situation. At the same time, I know you guys are just getting Harry back for years of torment in the group;) And he is taking the bait like a panfish in a pond, so, uh, carry on...;) |
Low transoms again
wrote:
On Aug 16, 10:59 am, "rom" wrote: "Steve P" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message . .. I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as Harry's. http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either. What if - 1- You were just drifting and not under way? or 2- You suddenly had a crab trap line wrap around your prop, stalling the engine?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You could get a boatfull of water. I think about this with my skiff (low cut transom). The flotation would hopefully bring the boat to the surface, and the water would pour out the transom cut. My boat is 16 feet so it must float level. Then if the engine is running, you hit it and get more out, and I would bail to assist the bilge pump as I do not have a self bailing cockpit. The cut out is going to at least give me a foot or so out of the water. In my case, a high transom would be more of a problem in a swamp situation. At the same time, I know you guys are just getting Harry back for years of torment in the group;) And he is taking the bait like a panfish in a pond, so, uh, carry on...;) taking the bait? surely you jest. |
Low transoms again
rom wrote:
"Steve P" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message . .. I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as Harry's. http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either. What if - 1- You were just drifting and not under way? or 2- You suddenly had a crab trap line wrap around your prop, stalling the engine? 1. The transom would rise and fall with the wave action. 2. Boat wake and any waves would hit the transom, and it would rise and fall with the wave action. You might get a bit of water on the deck. Maybe. |
Low transoms again
On Aug 16, 11:32 am, HK wrote:
taking the bait? surely you jest ;) |
Low transoms again
"HK" wrote in message . .. 1. The transom would rise and fall with the wave action. 2. Boat wake and any waves would hit the transom, and it would rise and fall with the wave action. You might get a bit of water on the deck. Maybe. Just for giggles, take your shoes off, get 'er up on plane, then quickly pull the throttle back to idle as if you suddenly lost power. Eisboch |
Low transoms again
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message . .. 1. The transom would rise and fall with the wave action. 2. Boat wake and any waves would hit the transom, and it would rise and fall with the wave action. You might get a bit of water on the deck. Maybe. Just for giggles, take your shoes off, get 'er up on plane, then quickly pull the throttle back to idle as if you suddenly lost power. Eisboch I've done that in boats with shorter transoms. Sometimes a little water came aboard, sometimes it did not. I suppose if I really were worried about getting my feet wet in a small open boat, I could wear boots. |
Low transoms again
"HK" wrote in message . .. Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message . .. 1. The transom would rise and fall with the wave action. 2. Boat wake and any waves would hit the transom, and it would rise and fall with the wave action. You might get a bit of water on the deck. Maybe. Just for giggles, take your shoes off, get 'er up on plane, then quickly pull the throttle back to idle as if you suddenly lost power. Eisboch I've done that in boats with shorter transoms. Sometimes a little water came aboard, sometimes it did not. I suppose if I really were worried about getting my feet wet in a small open boat, I could wear boots. Please realize that I am not being critical of your new boat nor of open/cut transom designs. They are fine for those who, like yourself, are experienced boaters and are knowledgeable of their boat limitations. The danger is when someone without any knowledge buys an open transom boat and assumes it should self bail and be ok because, heck, "they" built it this way. The problem is that an open transom boat is very susceptible to taking on water over the stern and not all of that water is necessarily drained. It often enters the bilge area through cutouts or deck hatches that are not watertight. Enough of this and the bilge pump (assuming it's working) can't always keep up and the boat starts to sit lower in the water at the stern, compounding the problem. People new to boating who are drift fishing with the stern to chop, wakes or building seas may not realize the point at which the boat has lost enough buoyancy to become dangerous. Another issue that isn't always realized is the capacity of a bilge pump. Just because it may be rated at "1500 gph" or "2000 gph", the actual pumping capacity is far less than that due to drain hose length and type. The conductance of the hoses used on bilge pumps dramatically cuts the actual pumping capacity, especially the common "ribbed" construction type typically found at West Marine. Eisboch |
Low transoms again
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message . .. 1. The transom would rise and fall with the wave action. 2. Boat wake and any waves would hit the transom, and it would rise and fall with the wave action. You might get a bit of water on the deck. Maybe. Just for giggles, take your shoes off, get 'er up on plane, then quickly pull the throttle back to idle as if you suddenly lost power. Eisboch Eisboch, When I had a 20' runabout with a full 24" high transom, I would get a monster wave rushing towards the boat and some water would still come over the transom. You would have drop the slowly so the wake would dissipate before coming off plane. My cruiser will bring in a wave, but the transmo is high enough that nothing comes on board. |
Low transoms again
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message . .. Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message . .. 1. The transom would rise and fall with the wave action. 2. Boat wake and any waves would hit the transom, and it would rise and fall with the wave action. You might get a bit of water on the deck. Maybe. Just for giggles, take your shoes off, get 'er up on plane, then quickly pull the throttle back to idle as if you suddenly lost power. Eisboch I've done that in boats with shorter transoms. Sometimes a little water came aboard, sometimes it did not. I suppose if I really were worried about getting my feet wet in a small open boat, I could wear boots. Please realize that I am not being critical of your new boat nor of open/cut transom designs. They are fine for those who, like yourself, are experienced boaters and are knowledgeable of their boat limitations. The danger is when someone without any knowledge buys an open transom boat and assumes it should self bail and be ok because, heck, "they" built it this way. The problem is that an open transom boat is very susceptible to taking on water over the stern and not all of that water is necessarily drained. It often enters the bilge area through cutouts or deck hatches that are not watertight. Enough of this and the bilge pump (assuming it's working) can't always keep up and the boat starts to sit lower in the water at the stern, compounding the problem. People new to boating who are drift fishing with the stern to chop, wakes or building seas may not realize the point at which the boat has lost enough buoyancy to become dangerous. Another issue that isn't always realized is the capacity of a bilge pump. Just because it may be rated at "1500 gph" or "2000 gph", the actual pumping capacity is far less than that due to drain hose length and type. The conductance of the hoses used on bilge pumps dramatically cuts the actual pumping capacity, especially the common "ribbed" construction type typically found at West Marine. Eisboch Richard, Your points are exactly why I think this has been a valuable discussion. Even Harry's original position was that if you know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board. |
Low transoms again
On Aug 16, 10:59 am, "rom" wrote:
"Steve P" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message ... I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as Harry's. http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either. What if - 1- You were just drifting and not under way? or 2- You suddenly had a crab trap line wrap around your prop, stalling the engine?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie_1.wmv These movies were taken while we were bucking an outgoing tide at the entrance to the Cape Cod Canal. We were idling which usually gives us around 3 knots. My GPS was indicating 1 to 2 knots SOG but in this case I believe it was actually reporting our backwards progress. Notice that the waves are overtaking us. 1- You were just drifting and not under way? A1. - Well, we did stop several times to mess with our lines. No water came into the boat. My boat, like most other boats I've been on, will tend to lay broadside to the waves when not under power. As you can see in the clip, it takes quite a bit of wheel input to keep on course. 2- You suddenly had a crab trap line wrap around your prop, stalling the engine?- A2. - In this situation if the line was still anchored to the bottom I think that the current would have carried us backward and the bow would have swung around and would be pointing into the waves. If the line were free then I'd probably end up drifting broadside to the waves. I agree that having a disabled motor does introduce a whole new set of opportunities for the situation to get worse. Steve P. |
Low transoms again
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:11:47 -0700,
wrote: http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie_1.wmv These movies were taken while we were bucking an outgoing tide at the entrance to the Cape Cod Canal. We were idling which usually gives us around 3 knots. My GPS was indicating 1 to 2 knots SOG but in this case I believe it was actually reporting our backwards progress. Notice that the waves are overtaking us. Help me out here. You were heading into an outgoing tide at the Canal? Because that doesn't make any sense. |
Low transoms again
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:05:24 -0400, "Steve P"
wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as Harry's. http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either. Agreed, but those are not the conditions where people have gotten into trouble because the boat is moving along nicely in the same direction as the waves. The problems start when the boat is stopped. This can happen if someone carelessly anchors from the stern, or more commonly, when someone "accidently" gets anchored from the stern because they are snagged on something. The first reaction of most folks in that situation is for one or more people to go to the stern of the boat decreasing the already low freeboard. Along comes a wave that is a little bigger than average and the boat becomes swamped with water. Remember that this is not a hypothetical condition, it actually happens to people from time to time, experienced people. What happens next depends on both luck and whether or not the boat has level flotation capability. Quite a few boats capsize when swamped due to loss of stability, and quite a few sink because they lack adequate flotation. This is not to say that boats lacking flotation are unsafe, quite the contrary. Boats that lack flotation need other qualities however: adequate freeboard for conditions, self draining cockpits with large scuppers, positive latches on hatch and compartment covers, etc. None of this is to say that Harry bought a dangerous boat that is at immediate risk of sinking. Anyone buying that kind of boat needs to be aware of the risks however and make special effort to avoid them. |
Low transoms again
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:03:30 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote: Your points are exactly why I think this has been a valuable discussion. Even Harry's original position was that if you know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board. That position is correct only if "knowing how to handle a boat" means avoiding potential problems by staying out of adverse conditions. Water will most definitely come aboard in a big way under the right circumstances. The skill is in avoiding those circumstances. |
Low transoms again
Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:05:24 -0400, "Steve P" wrote: "HK" wrote in message . .. I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom. I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as Harry's. http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either. Agreed, but those are not the conditions where people have gotten into trouble because the boat is moving along nicely in the same direction as the waves. The problems start when the boat is stopped. This can happen if someone carelessly anchors from the stern, or more commonly, when someone "accidently" gets anchored from the stern because they are snagged on something. The first reaction of most folks in that situation is for one or more people to go to the stern of the boat decreasing the already low freeboard. Along comes a wave that is a little bigger than average and the boat becomes swamped with water. Remember that this is not a hypothetical condition, it actually happens to people from time to time, experienced people. What happens next depends on both luck and whether or not the boat has level flotation capability. Quite a few boats capsize when swamped due to loss of stability, and quite a few sink because they lack adequate flotation. This is not to say that boats lacking flotation are unsafe, quite the contrary. Boats that lack flotation need other qualities however: adequate freeboard for conditions, self draining cockpits with large scuppers, positive latches on hatch and compartment covers, etc. None of this is to say that Harry bought a dangerous boat that is at immediate risk of sinking. Anyone buying that kind of boat needs to be aware of the risks however and make special effort to avoid them. I'll be sure to remember this the next time I anchor a small boat from the stern. The last time I did this...hmmmmm...I've never anchored a small boat from the stern. Oh well. |
Low transoms again
Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:03:30 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Your points are exactly why I think this has been a valuable discussion. Even Harry's original position was that if you know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board. That position is correct only if "knowing how to handle a boat" means avoiding potential problems by staying out of adverse conditions. Water will most definitely come aboard in a big way under the right circumstances. The skill is in avoiding those circumstances. Ahh, Reggie *Retardo* yet *again*. I doubt I've ever posted that if you know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board. I'm more convinced than ever that *R. Retardo* doesn't have a boat. |
Low transoms again
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:03:30 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Your points are exactly why I think this has been a valuable discussion. Even Harry's original position was that if you know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board. That position is correct only if "knowing how to handle a boat" means avoiding potential problems by staying out of adverse conditions. Water will most definitely come aboard in a big way under the right circumstances. The skill is in avoiding those circumstances. Ahh, Reggie *Retardo* yet *again*. I doubt I've ever posted that if you know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board. I'm more convinced than ever that *R. Retardo* doesn't have a boat. Harry Krause, I am willing to place a $10,000 bet that I do. If you will do the same about your lobster boat, I will be $20,000 richer. |
Low transoms again
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:11:47 -0700, wrote: http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie_1.wmv These movies were taken while we were bucking an outgoing tide at the entrance to the Cape Cod Canal. We were idling which usually gives us around 3 knots. My GPS was indicating 1 to 2 knots SOG but in this case I believe it was actually reporting our backwards progress. Notice that the waves are overtaking us. Help me out here. You were heading into an outgoing tide at the Canal? Because that doesn't make any sense. Not sure what you're getting at, is this a trick question ??? We were heading "up" Buzzards bay or "east" in terms of the canal in the Hog Island/Onset bay area approaching the west end of the canal a around 4:30PM on 7/7. The tide charts for that day show High Tide at the railroad bridge as 2:42PM and show the current turning west at 3:28PM. So here is a crappy ASCII art diagram of our situation: - - - - - - - Current flow - - - - - - - West - - - - - - - Boat direction - - - - - - East - - - - - - - Current flow - - - - - - - Steve P. |
Low transoms again
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:20:06 -0400, "Steve P"
wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:11:47 -0700, wrote: http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie_1.wmv These movies were taken while we were bucking an outgoing tide at the entrance to the Cape Cod Canal. We were idling which usually gives us around 3 knots. My GPS was indicating 1 to 2 knots SOG but in this case I believe it was actually reporting our backwards progress. Notice that the waves are overtaking us. Help me out here. You were heading into an outgoing tide at the Canal? Because that doesn't make any sense. Not sure what you're getting at, is this a trick question ??? We were heading "up" Buzzards bay or "east" in terms of the canal in the Hog Island/Onset bay area approaching the west end of the canal a around 4:30PM on 7/7. The tide charts for that day show High Tide at the railroad bridge as 2:42PM and show the current turning west at 3:28PM. So here is a crappy ASCII art diagram of our situation: - - - - - - - Current flow - - - - - - - West - - - - - - - Boat direction - - - - - - East - - - - - - - Current flow - - - - - - - I understood what you posted - the video shows something entirely different. If you look at the video, you are relatively motionless as compared to the shore. The waves are coming at you and passing you from the stern. Unless it's some kind of optical delusion that I can't parse. :) |
Low transoms again
Short Wave wrote:
If you look at the video, you are relatively motionless as compared to the shore. The waves are coming at you and passing you from the stern. Unless it's some kind of optical delusion that I can't parse. :) I'm not the video poster, but looks the current is running one way and the wind/waves are going the other. Like this: West--------- Wind & Waves -------East ---- - - - - - - Current flow - - - - - - - ----- - - - - - Boat direction - - - - - - Rick |
Low transoms again
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:04:05 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote: HK wrote: Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:03:30 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Your points are exactly why I think this has been a valuable discussion. Even Harry's original position was that if you know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board. That position is correct only if "knowing how to handle a boat" means avoiding potential problems by staying out of adverse conditions. Water will most definitely come aboard in a big way under the right circumstances. The skill is in avoiding those circumstances. Ahh, Reggie *Retardo* yet *again*. I doubt I've ever posted that if you know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board. I'm more convinced than ever that *R. Retardo* doesn't have a boat. Harry Krause, I am willing to place a $10,000 bet that I do. If you will do the same about your lobster boat, I will be $20,000 richer. Maybe Harry would bet with both of us. He'd have a chance to make a lot of money! -- John H |
Low transoms again
wrote in message ... Short Wave wrote: If you look at the video, you are relatively motionless as compared to the shore. The waves are coming at you and passing you from the stern. Unless it's some kind of optical delusion that I can't parse. :) I'm not the video poster, but looks the current is running one way and the wind/waves are going the other. Like this: West--------- Wind & Waves -------East ---- - - - - - - Current flow - - - - - - - ----- - - - - - Boat direction - - - - - - Rick 'Zacktly Rick! Like I said we were idling and probably actually being carried backwards by the current in relationship to the shore. The wind driven waves which had been building all day were bucking the current and overtaking us. The conditions this day were well within the capabilities of my low transom boat but these are classic inlet/bar conditions that can be the cause of a swamping. Steve P. |
Low transoms again
HK wrote:
Hmmm. Possibility, if I can find one with a 1" end, or someone with a substantial lathe...the boat hook fitting is typically 1" inside diameter. Try one of your union "craftsmen". Good luck. |
Low transoms again
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote: Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:03:30 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Your points are exactly why I think this has been a valuable discussion. Even Harry's original position was that if you know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board. That position is correct only if "knowing how to handle a boat" means avoiding potential problems by staying out of adverse conditions. Water will most definitely come aboard in a big way under the right circumstances. The skill is in avoiding those circumstances. Ahh, Reggie *Retardo* yet *again*. I doubt I've ever posted that if you know how to handle a boat, you will not have any water coming on board. I'm more convinced than ever that *R. Retardo* doesn't have a boat. Harry Krause, I am willing to place a $10,000 bet that I do. If you will do the same about your lobster boat, I will be $20,000 richer. crickets |
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