rom wrote:
"Steve P" wrote in message
...
"HK" wrote in message
. ..


I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned
and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly
straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I
encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom.
I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess
were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class
as Harry's.

http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv

Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either.


What if -

1- You were just drifting and not under way?

or

2- You suddenly had a crab trap line wrap around your prop, stalling the
engine?





1. The transom would rise and fall with the wave action.

2. Boat wake and any waves would hit the transom, and it would rise and
fall with the wave action. You might get a bit of water on the deck. Maybe.

On Aug 16, 10:59 am, "rom" wrote:
"Steve P" wrote in message

...







"HK" wrote in message
...

I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned
and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly
straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I
encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom.

I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess
were 2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class
as Harry's.

http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv

Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either.

What if -

1- You were just drifting and not under way?

or

2- You suddenly had a crab trap line wrap around your prop, stalling the
engine?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie_1.wmv

These movies were taken while we were bucking an outgoing tide at the
entrance to the Cape Cod Canal. We were idling which usually gives us
around 3 knots. My GPS was indicating 1 to 2 knots SOG but in this
case I believe it was actually reporting our backwards progress.
Notice that the waves are overtaking us.

1- You were just drifting and not under way?

A1. - Well, we did stop several times to mess with our lines. No water
came into the boat. My boat, like most other boats I've been on, will
tend to lay broadside to the waves when not under power. As you can
see in the clip, it takes quite a bit of wheel input to keep on
course.

2- You suddenly had a crab trap line wrap around your prop, stalling the
engine?-

A2. - In this situation if the line was still anchored to the bottom I
think that the current would have carried us backward and the bow
would have swung around and would be pointing into the waves. If the
line were free then I'd probably end up drifting broadside to the
waves. I agree that having a disabled motor does introduce a whole new
set of opportunities for the situation to get worse.

Steve P.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:05:24 -0400, "Steve P"
wrote:


"HK" wrote in message
...




I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned
and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly
straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I
encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom.

I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were
2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as
Harry's.

http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv

Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either.


Agreed, but those are not the conditions where people have gotten into
trouble because the boat is moving along nicely in the same direction
as the waves. The problems start when the boat is stopped. This can
happen if someone carelessly anchors from the stern, or more commonly,
when someone "accidently" gets anchored from the stern because they
are snagged on something. The first reaction of most folks in that
situation is for one or more people to go to the stern of the boat
decreasing the already low freeboard. Along comes a wave that is a
little bigger than average and the boat becomes swamped with water.
Remember that this is not a hypothetical condition, it actually
happens to people from time to time, experienced people.

What happens next depends on both luck and whether or not the boat has
level flotation capability. Quite a few boats capsize when swamped
due to loss of stability, and quite a few sink because they lack
adequate flotation.

This is not to say that boats lacking flotation are unsafe, quite the
contrary. Boats that lack flotation need other qualities however:
adequate freeboard for conditions, self draining cockpits with large
scuppers, positive latches on hatch and compartment covers, etc.

None of this is to say that Harry bought a dangerous boat that is at
immediate risk of sinking. Anyone buying that kind of boat needs to
be aware of the risks however and make special effort to avoid them.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:05:24 -0400, "Steve P"
wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
. ..


I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned
and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly
straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I
encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom.
I browsed around my HD and found this .wmv of my boat in what I'd guess were
2' to maybe 3' following seas. I'd put my transom in the same class as
Harry's.

http://www.monkeybutler.com/boat/temp/Movie.wmv

Not exactly survival conditions but no wet feet either.


Agreed, but those are not the conditions where people have gotten into
trouble because the boat is moving along nicely in the same direction
as the waves. The problems start when the boat is stopped. This can
happen if someone carelessly anchors from the stern, or more commonly,
when someone "accidently" gets anchored from the stern because they
are snagged on something. The first reaction of most folks in that
situation is for one or more people to go to the stern of the boat
decreasing the already low freeboard. Along comes a wave that is a
little bigger than average and the boat becomes swamped with water.
Remember that this is not a hypothetical condition, it actually
happens to people from time to time, experienced people.

What happens next depends on both luck and whether or not the boat has
level flotation capability. Quite a few boats capsize when swamped
due to loss of stability, and quite a few sink because they lack
adequate flotation.

This is not to say that boats lacking flotation are unsafe, quite the
contrary. Boats that lack flotation need other qualities however:
adequate freeboard for conditions, self draining cockpits with large
scuppers, positive latches on hatch and compartment covers, etc.

None of this is to say that Harry bought a dangerous boat that is at
immediate risk of sinking. Anyone buying that kind of boat needs to
be aware of the risks however and make special effort to avoid them.



I'll be sure to remember this the next time I anchor a small boat from
the stern. The last time I did this...hmmmmm...I've never anchored a
small boat from the stern. Oh well.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:27:50 -0400, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

JimH wrote:
"Steve P" wrote in message
...
Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and
darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way.
I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you?

Steve P.

We went out yesterday to take advantage of the fleeting summer weather
boating days. On the way to the Lake I started taking notice of these "low
transom" boats. I never paid attention to them before. I must have seen
a dozen, including a Grady White and Contender, amongst others, some with
the cutout transom area within just a few inches of the waterline. Among
these boats aproximately 1/2 half had a splashwell.



I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned
and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly
straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I
encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom.

When we lived in NE Florida, I used to run several very dangerous inlets
that, when you were coming towards land, had substantial breaking waves
rolling constantly towards the transom of my boats. These, by the way,
were boats with 20" transoms. Once in a while, a bit of water came
aboard, not enough to float anything on the deck, and because the boats
were properly designed, the water ran right out.

It seems to be an issue for inexperienced boaters, inland boaters, and
our newsgroup's several non-boating troublemakers. Their opinions matter
not at all.

Oh...about five years ago, when I first met a member of the Parker
family, I actually asked why the company hadn't followed the "trend"
towards making all its boats with what was then called "eurotransoms,"
or if not that, brackets. Three reasons, I was told: eurotransoms cut
down on interior space in the boat and make it more difficult in small
boats to reach fish off the transom, and brackets on smaller boats
entirely change the balance of those boats in a negative way.

One of my favorite boats when I was growing up was an Amesbury dory.
It had a 15" transom. I drove that little boat as far as two six gallon
tanks of gas would take me, and though it had a flat bottom and low
sides, I never got in serious trouble in rough water.

Mako, btw, used to make a 23 or 25 footer whose transom cutout was so
low, it seemed to be only an inch or two about the waterline. Great
fishing boat. Whatever water it took on board rushed right out the transom.

Now, if I were a weekend floating condo owner on the mighty Lake Lanier,
and boated on big waters only vicariously, I suppose I'd be so concerned
I'd have to relocate to Derby, Kansas.

It might be noted that if one is taking much water over the (low)
transom, one should be looking for the engines to aspirate some of
that water... not good.

Parker is quite correct in the matter of the bracket. It can be very
difficult, in close quarters, to control a boat that has the power
that far aft and that close together. I do prefer it to that butt-ugly
"eurotransom" though.

I have found that, in my boat, even with over 4 feet of freeboard at
the bow, that is where I am most likely to take on my share of green
water. I've never taken any over the transom, but have worried about
the engines...

In the most treacherous local inlet, even the 60' Hammerstrom will
take a bit over the bow..... I've never seen any come over the
transom.... ever, although the transom is fairly low....

If the boat is properly engineered, I think I'd pick something other
than transom height to worry about....



Gene: Your email crapped out on me again, and a note I sent you bounced.

Are you available Monday...or not? Your last note left me...confused.



Oh...the new boat...for a 21-footer, it is just enormous, with a huge
Carolina-like bow. Did a bit of "re-engineering" on the bow deck...with
an anchor roller, a cleat and two chocks, instead of the standard pair
of cleats.

I'm looking for a 1" round piece of oak or hickory, about 6' long, on
which to attach a traditional boat hook. There's something about those
telescoping aluminum boathooks I don't like.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:14:27 -0400, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:27:50 -0400, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

JimH wrote:
"Steve P" wrote in message
...
Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and
darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way.
I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you?

Steve P.

We went out yesterday to take advantage of the fleeting summer weather
boating days. On the way to the Lake I started taking notice of these "low
transom" boats. I never paid attention to them before. I must have seen
a dozen, including a Grady White and Contender, amongst others, some with
the cutout transom area within just a few inches of the waterline. Among
these boats aproximately 1/2 half had a splashwell.


I've been boating for more than 50 years in salt water, and I have owned
and been on dozens and dozens of boats with "full," notched or perfectly
straight across transoms. Not once in any of those waters have I
encountered a situation made dangerous by the height of the transom.

When we lived in NE Florida, I used to run several very dangerous inlets
that, when you were coming towards land, had substantial breaking waves
rolling constantly towards the transom of my boats. These, by the way,
were boats with 20" transoms. Once in a while, a bit of water came
aboard, not enough to float anything on the deck, and because the boats
were properly designed, the water ran right out.

It seems to be an issue for inexperienced boaters, inland boaters, and
our newsgroup's several non-boating troublemakers. Their opinions matter
not at all.

Oh...about five years ago, when I first met a member of the Parker
family, I actually asked why the company hadn't followed the "trend"
towards making all its boats with what was then called "eurotransoms,"
or if not that, brackets. Three reasons, I was told: eurotransoms cut
down on interior space in the boat and make it more difficult in small
boats to reach fish off the transom, and brackets on smaller boats
entirely change the balance of those boats in a negative way.

One of my favorite boats when I was growing up was an Amesbury dory.
It had a 15" transom. I drove that little boat as far as two six gallon
tanks of gas would take me, and though it had a flat bottom and low
sides, I never got in serious trouble in rough water.

Mako, btw, used to make a 23 or 25 footer whose transom cutout was so
low, it seemed to be only an inch or two about the waterline. Great
fishing boat. Whatever water it took on board rushed right out the transom.

Now, if I were a weekend floating condo owner on the mighty Lake Lanier,
and boated on big waters only vicariously, I suppose I'd be so concerned
I'd have to relocate to Derby, Kansas.
It might be noted that if one is taking much water over the (low)
transom, one should be looking for the engines to aspirate some of
that water... not good.

Parker is quite correct in the matter of the bracket. It can be very
difficult, in close quarters, to control a boat that has the power
that far aft and that close together. I do prefer it to that butt-ugly
"eurotransom" though.

I have found that, in my boat, even with over 4 feet of freeboard at
the bow, that is where I am most likely to take on my share of green
water. I've never taken any over the transom, but have worried about
the engines...

In the most treacherous local inlet, even the 60' Hammerstrom will
take a bit over the bow..... I've never seen any come over the
transom.... ever, although the transom is fairly low....

If the boat is properly engineered, I think I'd pick something other
than transom height to worry about....


Gene: Your email crapped out on me again, and a note I sent you bounced.

Are you available Monday...or not? Your last note left me...confused.


Nah... Monday I'll be working. No way I'll get out of that!


All of my email should be working, now..... I lost the server for a
couple of days due to an electrical storm, but everything should be
ok, now....


Oh...the new boat...for a 21-footer, it is just enormous, with a huge
Carolina-like bow. Did a bit of "re-engineering" on the bow deck...with
an anchor roller, a cleat and two chocks, instead of the standard pair
of cleats.



I'm looking for a 1" round piece of oak or hickory, about 6' long, on
which to attach a traditional boat hook. There's something about those
telescoping aluminum boathooks I don't like.


Hoe handle?


Hmmm. Possibility, if I can find one with a 1" end, or someone with a
substantial lathe...the boat hook fitting is typically 1" inside diameter.

HK wrote:

Hmmm. Possibility, if I can find one with a 1" end, or someone with a
substantial lathe...the boat hook fitting is typically 1" inside diameter.

Try one of your union "craftsmen". Good luck.

"Steve P" wrote in message
...
Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and
darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way.
I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you?

Steve P.


There is a bass fishing tournament on Lake Erie this week (saw it set up
yesterday when heading out to the Lake..........official weigh in station is
on the Vermilion River.

Although we had fairly calm waters yesterday afternoon it is amazing to see
bass boats on the Lake in 3-5+ footers (capping). These boats look like
they have a freeboard of about a foot.

How do these boat drain? Bilge pump only?

JimH wrote:
"Steve P" wrote in message
...
Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and
darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way.
I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you?

Steve P.


There is a bass fishing tournament on Lake Erie this week (saw it set up
yesterday when heading out to the Lake..........official weigh in station is
on the Vermilion River.

Although we had fairly calm waters yesterday afternoon it is amazing to see
bass boats on the Lake in 3-5+ footers (capping). These boats look like
they have a freeboard of about a foot.

How do these boat drain? Bilge pump only?



Mostly.
That's why they are mostly useful on lakes and mild rivers, though the
larger bassboats have more freeboard. Not much deadrise, and sometimes
an almost flat bottom. They're fine for their intended purpose until the
water gets choppy. Very, very fast.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:39:36 -0400, "JimH" ask penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

"Steve P" wrote in message
...
Harry, we went across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge / Tunnel on Monday and
darned if we didn't pass a Parker just like yours going the opposite way.
I saw the transom in my rear view mirror and thought could it be you?

Steve P.

There is a bass fishing tournament on Lake Erie this week (saw it set up
yesterday when heading out to the Lake..........official weigh in station is
on the Vermilion River.

Although we had fairly calm waters yesterday afternoon it is amazing to see
bass boats on the Lake in 3-5+ footers (capping). These boats look like
they have a freeboard of about a foot.

How do these boat drain? Bilge pump only?


On plane, there is just about nothing but the prop in the water.....
and they will drain through small scuppers.

They are stuffed with so much flotation, they won't sink.... so, if
you can keep them right side up, being a little over ankle deep in
water is only an annoyance...




I dunno, Gene...some posters here are horrified at the possibility of
getting wet while being in a boat.