"Lu Powell" wrote in message
...
In war, as in police operations, a "Fair" fight means the good guys failed
to plan well.

- A retired cop and retired military man....


"HK" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gin68TIr2Rg

Wipe out!


Wow. The big, brave waterpolice capture a rubber boat.


I know police have a job to do and overwhelming force to end the situation
quickly might be safer in the long run.
My problem is when they turn tail and run like scared chickens when
confronted with a force that might stand nose to nose with them, even if
only for a short time.
We had a situation like that here where the police went into a certain
minority's community to try to diffuse a situation. A lot of media went in
to record the event. The police 'Swat team' hi-tailed it out a back escape
when the entire aggitated community turned out to confront them. The media
were left on their own to run a gauntlet of punks throwing boulders at them.
One of our cameramen narrowly escaped injury when one rock dented the front
piller on a company car and a radio crew had to abandon a rental car, which
was found stripped the next day.
Another case was in the central part of the country a number of years ago
when native Americans blockcaded an entire town. The natives sneaked around
wearing combat clothing and face masks and even shot and killed one police
officer. The cops retreated back to safe lines and called for the army to
bail them out.
On the other hand when confronted by unarmed peaceful demonstrators in
British Columbia a few years ago, one fat assed RCMP Sgt. quickly whipped
out a commercial fire extinguisher sized can of pepper spray and doused
anyone in sight...women children, a CBC cameraman etc.
So to summarize... the cops are brave as hell when the advantage is
overwhelming in their favour.. but no so when the odds are even or the
reverse.

On Aug 10, 9:50 pm, "Don White" wrote:
"Lu Powell" wrote in message

...





In war, as in police operations, a "Fair" fight means the good guys failed
to plan well.

- A retired cop and retired military man....

"HK" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gin68TIr2Rg

Wipe out!

Wow. The big, brave waterpolice capture a rubber boat.

I know police have a job to do and overwhelming force to end the situation
quickly might be safer in the long run.
My problem is when they turn tail and run like scared chickens when
confronted with a force that might stand nose to nose with them, even if
only for a short time.
We had a situation like that here where the police went into a certain
minority's community to try to diffuse a situation. A lot of media went in
to record the event. The police 'Swat team' hi-tailed it out a back escape
when the entire aggitated community turned out to confront them. The media
were left on their own to run a gauntlet of punks throwing boulders at them.
One of our cameramen narrowly escaped injury when one rock dented the front
piller on a company car and a radio crew had to abandon a rental car, which
was found stripped the next day.
Another case was in the central part of the country a number of years ago
when native Americans blockcaded an entire town. The natives sneaked around
wearing combat clothing and face masks and even shot and killed one police
officer. The cops retreated back to safe lines and called for the army to
bail them out.
On the other hand when confronted by unarmed peaceful demonstrators in
British Columbia a few years ago, one fat assed RCMP Sgt. quickly whipped
out a commercial fire extinguisher sized can of pepper spray and doused
anyone in sight...women children, a CBC cameraman etc.
So to summarize... the cops are brave as hell when the advantage is
overwhelming in their favour.. but no so when the odds are even or the
reverse.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If a cop is doing his job there is no reason for him to confront a
more powerful force, just for the sake of bravery. That's like saying
you shouldn't avoid a huge bully on the way home from school. As to
the SWAT team retreating, they were the wrong tool, they are not
equipt for crowd control, the regular uniforms should have been ready
to take over as the situation changed. That is a problem with
leadership, training, equipment and manpower, logistics, maybe
communication, but not the SWAT team. What would you have said if they
had turned and defended themselves? Either they would use the tools
they had available, probably lethal in most cases, or they would have
been beaten and killed themselves, and possibly put some pretty nasty
weapons into the hands of the crowd. Which scenario would you prefer?
And as for media, you do what you can. Those who lay their lives down
for society still have a point where they know to run out of the
building. Dying in there helps noone, in fact because heros are what
they are, it is likley to draw a rescue team in, only making the
situation worse. I don't think it is the police responsiblilty to
provide assumed security to the media. They are no different than any
other civilian on the scene, no worse, no better, no special
considerations.

Listen Don, I dislike cops, probably say I hate most locals, staties,
not so much, their crime is way out of my league and does not effect
me directly, but in the cases you describe, there is a lot more to
consider than just the selected video tape.

BTW, good to see you had a good trip, although I suspect I may wish it
was a little longer soon

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 02:05:28 -0000,
wrote:



BTW, good to see you had a good trip, although I suspect I may wish it
was a little longer soon

LOL

--Vic

On Aug 10, 9:05 pm, wrote:

BTW, good to see you had a good trip, although I suspect I may wish it
was a little longer soon

agreed!

Good to have you back, Don.

"Tim" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 10, 9:05 pm, wrote:

BTW, good to see you had a good trip, although I suspect I may wish it
was a little longer soon

agreed!

Good to have you back, Don.



Thank you Tim..good to be back!

On Aug 10, 8:50 pm, "Don White" wrote:
"Lu Powell" wrote in message

...





In war, as in police operations, a "Fair" fight means the good guys failed
to plan well.

- A retired cop and retired military man....

"HK" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gin68TIr2Rg

Wipe out!

Wow. The big, brave waterpolice capture a rubber boat.

I know police have a job to do and overwhelming force to end the situation
quickly might be safer in the long run.
My problem is when they turn tail and run like scared chickens when
confronted with a force that might stand nose to nose with them, even if
only for a short time.


Waco

Tim wrote:
On Aug 10, 8:50 pm, "Don White" wrote:
"Lu Powell" wrote in message

...





In war, as in police operations, a "Fair" fight means the good guys failed
to plan well.
- A retired cop and retired military man....
"HK" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gin68TIr2Rg
Wipe out!
Wow. The big, brave waterpolice capture a rubber boat.
I know police have a job to do and overwhelming force to end the situation
quickly might be safer in the long run.
My problem is when they turn tail and run like scared chickens when
confronted with a force that might stand nose to nose with them, even if
only for a short time.


Waco


Or when four or five cops fire 41 shots at a guy pulling his wallet out
of his pocket. Or shove a broom handle up another guy's rectum. Or fake
evidence in cahoots with the FBI "crime lab."

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:50:09 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"Lu Powell" wrote in message
...
In war, as in police operations, a "Fair" fight means the good guys failed
to plan well.

- A retired cop and retired military man....


"HK" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gin68TIr2Rg

Wipe out!


Wow. The big, brave waterpolice capture a rubber boat.


I know police have a job to do and overwhelming force to end the situation
quickly might be safer in the long run.
My problem is when they turn tail and run like scared chickens when
confronted with a force that might stand nose to nose with them, even if
only for a short time.
We had a situation like that here where the police went into a certain
minority's community to try to diffuse a situation. A lot of media went in
to record the event. The police 'Swat team' hi-tailed it out a back escape
when the entire aggitated community turned out to confront them. The media
were left on their own to run a gauntlet of punks throwing boulders at them.
One of our cameramen narrowly escaped injury when one rock dented the front
piller on a company car and a radio crew had to abandon a rental car, which
was found stripped the next day.
Another case was in the central part of the country a number of years ago
when native Americans blockcaded an entire town. The natives sneaked around
wearing combat clothing and face masks and even shot and killed one police
officer. The cops retreated back to safe lines and called for the army to
bail them out.
On the other hand when confronted by unarmed peaceful demonstrators in
British Columbia a few years ago, one fat assed RCMP Sgt. quickly whipped
out a commercial fire extinguisher sized can of pepper spray and doused
anyone in sight...women children, a CBC cameraman etc.
So to summarize... the cops are brave as hell when the advantage is
overwhelming in their favour.. but no so when the odds are even or the
reverse.


Would you have had the cops just start spraying the crowd with bullets? I'm
sure they could have.
--
John H

Don White wrote:
"Lu Powell" wrote in message
...
In war, as in police operations, a "Fair" fight means the good guys failed
to plan well.

- A retired cop and retired military man....


"HK" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gin68TIr2Rg

Wipe out!

Wow. The big, brave waterpolice capture a rubber boat.

I know police have a job to do and overwhelming force to end the situation
quickly might be safer in the long run.
My problem is when they turn tail and run like scared chickens when
confronted with a force that might stand nose to nose with them, even if
only for a short time.

There is no reason to engage in a fair fight.

We had a situation like that here where the police went into a certain
minority's community to try to diffuse a situation. A lot of media went in
to record the event. The police 'Swat team' hi-tailed it out a back escape
when the entire aggitated community turned out to confront them. The media

They lived to fight another day. Oh, and why did you have to say "a
certain minority's community?" Is that a code phrase Don?

were left on their own to run a gauntlet of punks throwing boulders at them.
One of our cameramen narrowly escaped injury when one rock dented the front
piller on a company car and a radio crew had to abandon a rental car, which
was found stripped the next day.

The media gets what they deserve. If they are going into a situation
where they may be injured or killed then they have to accept the risks.
Property can be replaced, lives cannot.

Another case was in the central part of the country a number of years ago
when native Americans blockcaded an entire town. The natives sneaked around
wearing combat clothing and face masks and even shot and killed one police
officer. The cops retreated back to safe lines and called for the army to
bail them out.

Sounds like a smart group of cops.

On the other hand when confronted by unarmed peaceful demonstrators in
British Columbia a few years ago, one fat assed RCMP Sgt. quickly whipped
out a commercial fire extinguisher sized can of pepper spray and doused
anyone in sight...women children, a CBC cameraman etc.

Are CBC cameramen immune from police instruction? Would it have been
better for the police to use rubber bullets? Would you like to see them
shoot real bullets?

So to summarize... the cops are brave as hell when the advantage is
overwhelming in their favour.. but no so when the odds are even or the
reverse.

Only idiots continue when the odds are against them.

On Aug 11, 10:10 pm, BAR wrote:


So to summarize... the cops are brave as hell when the advantage is
overwhelming in their favour.. but no so when the odds are even or the
reverse.

Only idiots continue when the odds are against them

Er, I would think our country's founding fathers might disagree with
that statement.