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On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:34:25 -0400, HK wrote:

How about if you broach
and take a few tons of water over the side, or if you suffer a
knockdown? Got enough flotation built into that boat to keep it floating
level and safe until help arrives?

It depends. :-)

After watching those Alaskan fishing boats capsize in big seas I think
it's safe to say that no boat is without risk in extreme conditions.

Don't take my comments personally, not intended that way. Accidental
(and abrupt) sinking is a proven issue on boats with low transom
freeboard and no splash boards however. There are lots of ways for a
boat to accidently end up stern-to with a breaking wave, and the wave
doesn't have to be all that big with 12 inches of freeboard.

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:23:19 -0400, HK wrote:

It's not an issue, except maybe to inexperienced ocean boaters.

That's debatable. Even experienced boaters sometimes snag a lobster
pot or foul an anchor line. That's how some of the
"stern-to-the-wave" incidents that I've heard about developed.

On Aug 10, 11:26 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:21:40 -0000,
wrote:

Buying a boat withougt flotation, is like buying an aeroplane with no
wings. Commercial vessel maybe, but a passenger vessel with no
flotation, if you sink, you deserve it.

After a certain size and weight positive flotation becomes virtually
impossible, typically in the low to mid 20 ft range depending on power
options and construction.

Yeah, I can't imagine trying to put flotation in my friends tug. There
would be no room for anything else I guess;) I always forget to
qualify my posts as from a 20 foot boaters point of view. The
explanation of your vessel's ability to preserve itself, and Harrys
explanation of his seem logical for the type of vessels, and intended
use from what I can see, again with the limited pov.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:34:25 -0400, HK wrote:

How about if you broach
and take a few tons of water over the side, or if you suffer a
knockdown? Got enough flotation built into that boat to keep it floating
level and safe until help arrives?

It depends. :-)

After watching those Alaskan fishing boats capsize in big seas I think
it's safe to say that no boat is without risk in extreme conditions.

Don't take my comments personally, not intended that way. Accidental
(and abrupt) sinking is a proven issue on boats with low transom
freeboard and no splash boards however. There are lots of ways for a
boat to accidently end up stern-to with a breaking wave, and the wave
doesn't have to be all that big with 12 inches of freeboard.

There are lots of ways for every boat to founder. I've been boating in
small, low transom boats for 50 years. Never had a close call via a wave
breaking over the transom. Did have a close call with a wave breaking
over the bow.

Since I do 90% of my boating in Chesapeake Bay, I have no concerns about
the transom. And even when I wander offshore, it isn't a concern for me.
I've been offshore plenty of times in boats with 15" transoms, including
some of the older Boston Whalers.

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:33:34 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:23:19 -0400, HK wrote:

It's not an issue, except maybe to inexperienced ocean boaters.

That's debatable. Even experienced boaters sometimes snag a lobster
pot or foul an anchor line. That's how some of the
"stern-to-the-wave" incidents that I've heard about developed.

Been there, done that. In particular in and around The Race where the
lobsta men have these ridiculously long leads on their traps and bouys
and love to place them right where the best striper fishing is.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:23:19 -0400, HK wrote:

It's not an issue, except maybe to inexperienced ocean boaters.

That's debatable. Even experienced boaters sometimes snag a lobster
pot or foul an anchor line. That's how some of the
"stern-to-the-wave" incidents that I've heard about developed.

That's why I always carry and keep handy a stout, sharp knife.
Of course, if you snagged a 1" anchor line with chain in the GB while in
a nasty storm, you'd have to lean pretty far over the transom to cut
yourself free.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:39:10 -0400, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:52:47 -0400, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:39:39 -0400, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

HK wrote:
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 11:39:40 -0400, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 06:36:54 -0400, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Side view:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...-08-080001.jpg

!! You didn't go for the aluminum trailer ??

Of course I did. But I won't be able to pick it up in Norfolk until
Saturday or Monday. The trailer you see is one of the dealer's yard
trailers. When new boats come in, they have to be stashed on
something. Tri-State uses cradles or trailers to prop up its new boats.
Are you getting yours from S&S? I drove to Norfolk to pick up mine....

Yup. Wanna meet me for lunch end of next week? I'm supposed to pick it
up either Saturday the 18th or Monday. Maybe we could pick up a charter
in Virginia Beach. I believe I'll be kinda footloose the end of next
week with my wife visiting her maternal grandma in western North Carolina.
That would be Saturday the 18th or the following Monday.
Where will you be? Will you be cruising west toward granny?

Monday is the first day of classes.... no way I'll get out of that....

Yikes. I guess I worded that...poorly.

No, I will not be cruising west towards granny. My wife's annual trips
to granny's house are a henfest, with the convergence of a number of
female relatives. Granny, by the way, is 100 years old this year. She's
a very healthy, active lady.
Great for the old girl! I hope to be spry and sassy past 100, too!

On Saturday, the 18th, hopefully, I will be cruising down to Norfolk to
pick up the trailer. But I won't know until Friday the 17th. That's when
the trailer is supposed to arrive there. If it isn't there for pickup on
the 18th, I'll be driving down on Monday the 20th.
Let me know how your plans evolve. S&S isn't very easy to find. I
remember them at the end of a short gravel drive, with an aircraft
carrier looming over the neighborhood.

Actually, they're on the other side now. They moved a few years ago.

Much easier to find. Near the airport and the botanic gardens.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...S-trailers.jpg

Wow! They did move!

Probably a lot better because they used to have sales in one place and
storage in another.....

They have a nice facility now. Decent building, right on the water, next
to a decent marina.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 21:37:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 17:03:04 -0500, John H.
wrote:

Harry, in the pictures on the Parker site,
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa...l.jsp?boatid=2
it appears that the 21'er is the same as the 23'er without the engine
mount. Why would you get a boat that has no protection from the water
coming thru the transom? Hell, even the 18'er appears to have the engine
mounted in such a way as to keep the water out.
Come on guys - it's a nice boat.

It's not what some of us would buy for any number of reasons, but
that's Harry's choice, not ours.

Picking on that one detail seems kind of petty.

Shudder......

It reminded me of the old Skipper threads about "the dangerous Scout
low transom."

I always suggested to him that if he was afraid of getting wet he
probably should give up boating.......

I never could follow that "line of thought" of his...

I think it is an issue with "inland" boaters who have no ocean
experience. I suppose if I boated on a little lake, I'd be scared, too.

I don't know what they use now, but when I was living near St.
Augustine, the sheriff's surf rescue patrol used Carolina Skiff hulls as
the basis of their surf retrieval boats. Not only do Carolina Skiffs
have low transoms, they have low hullsides. You'd see these guys push
out Matanzas Inlet and St. Augustine Inlet and pull swimmers out of six
to eight foot breakers.

Parker offers the cut down transom style on several of its 21, 23 and 25
footers. They have high appeal to *real* fishermen because they allow
direct access to the body of water and fish right at the transom.

I tell you, just about every time I see a "boating-related" post from
certain of the guys here, I chuckle.

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:41:51 -0400, HK wrote:

That's why I always carry and keep handy a stout, sharp knife.

That's a good idea of course but there's always the issue of being
able to get to the offending line in time to avoid a swamping.

Someone on "rec.boats.cruising" recently reported that they had bought
a knife attachment that fits on the end of those ubiquitous
telescoping mop handles. I haven't bought one yet but it does seem
like they could be useful for quickly cutting a submerged line.

Our GB is heavy enough that we generally break off crab and lobster
pot lines if we hit them, but then I have to dive overboard once in
awhile to cut loose the debris on the shafts. I've always carried
mask and flippers for that sort of thing but I've recently added a
small dive compressor, weight belt, hose and regulator to the
inventory.

The big risk with larger boats is getting tangled up in floating fish
nets or large polypropylene line. The big polypro stuff is strong
enough to break a strut or pull out a shaft if you get really unlucky.
When you walk along deserted beaches in the Bahamas you find it all
over the place, big 1 inch lines and all kinds of professional fishing
junk that has floated in.