NOAA getting desperate?
 

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:46:49 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:57:11 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:34:03 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

The fact that they are changing the rules may affect things far beyond
the obvious......

Agreed.

By their criteria, the storm of November 10th, 1975 in Lake Superior
should have been called a hurricane rather than a gale.

The proper terminology should be gale.

A gale is a very strong wind of at least 28 knots, 32 mph, or 51 km/h;
and up to 55 knots, 63 mph, or 102 km/h.

It is divided into three or four categories:

A moderate gale or near gale is up to 33 kt., 38 mph, or 61 km/h, and
a small craft advisory is issued.
A fresh gale or just gale is 34~40 kt., 39~46 mph, or 62~74 km/h, and
a gale warning is issued.
A strong gale is 41~47 kt., 47~54 mph, or 75~88 km/h, and usually a
gale warning is issued or maintained.
A whole gale or storm is 48 kt., 55 mph, or 89 km/h or greater, and a
storm warning is issued.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

I was in a storm in South Dakota last week that was every bit as
strong as several named storms I have been in. Lots of hail, 50-60mph
gusts and raining so hard I couldn't see across the road I was parked
next to. I seriously thought about putting that 4wd suburban in the
ditch if I heard the "freight train" coming.
It only lasted about 5 minutes but it was nasty. The difference
between that and a typical Florida afternoon storm was very little
lightning.

I spent the first twelve years of my life in the Midwest and I totally
agree.

NOAA getting desperate?
 

"John H." wrote in message
...
Tom, you been hanging with Harry a lot? It sounds like it. What's with the
'Chuck' crap?
--
John H


What are you...Chuck's nanny?

NOAA getting desperate?
 

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:34:01 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 07:20:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Yes, and the next thing you know we'll be seeing another well
researched article showing that the number of tropical storms has
doubled.

Wayne,
From what I can tell, the current definition of tropical storm goes
back to at least 1992, and probably is older. It describes a type of
storm, and the intensity of the storm and includes storms that develop
in the Tropics or the Subtropics. While the conditions are greatest for
a Tropical Storm to originate in the Tropics, it is not limited to the
Tropics.

I understand that. My point I guess, if I really had one, is that
NOAA does seem to be stretching a bit on some of these calls. I
believe that was SW Tom's point as well. It's not entirely irrelevant
either. By way of example, my insurance policy on the Grand Banks has
a clause whereby the deductible doubles for damage caused by a "named"
storm.

When you mentioned that, I went and looked at my policy - my agreed on
value policy I might add, and lookee there - a deductible for "wind
storm".

Me thinks I'm going to have a discussion with the agent on that one.

There was in fact a study released within the last week which
purported to show that the number of Atlantic hurricanes has doubled
in the last 100 years. Although that is possible, it seems much more
likely that vastly improved detection methodology is responsible for
much of the increase. Thanks to satellite technology virtually no
weather disturbance goes undetected these days.

I've been saying that for years. Prior to the advent of WESATs,
GOSATs and all the other SATS, there must have been storms that nobody
knew about until they were - well, hit land.

I'm jus annoyed that for years they categorized these types of storms
as gales because they were considered as extra-ropical (which isn't an
exact description of them either, but a hell of a lot closer than
sub-tropical) which made them just storms - nothing special.

And I'm just assure the reason for the change was pressure from
business and companies like Accuweather who make their living off of
prognostication wanting to accomodate business in their desire to
limit losses.

My view is if they want to limit losses, don't write the damn policy.

NOAA getting desperate?
 

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:05:55 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 07:20:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

While the conditions are greatest for
a Tropical Storm to originate in the Tropics, it is not limited to the
Tropics.

If is doesn't originate in the tropics, then it isn't a tropical
storm.

Relying on a definition that is a bizzllion years old doesn't make it
right.

So Chuck, what's your next treatise?

Tom, you been hanging with Harry a lot? It sounds like it. What's with the
'Chuck' crap?
--
John H

NOAA getting desperate?
 

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:04:01 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

I've been saying that for years. Prior to the advent of WESATs,
GOSATs and all the other SATS, there must have been storms that nobody
knew about until they were - well, hit land.

Or hit a boat that survived to tell the tale.

Not all of them did.

NOAA getting desperate?
 

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:29:59 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
Tom, you been hanging with Harry a lot? It sounds like it. What's with the
'Chuck' crap?
--
John H


What are you...Chuck's nanny?


Hey! How did the weekend go? How's your mom doing? Hope all is well.

No, Chuck doesn't need a nanny. And since Tom's already apologized, no more
need be said on the subject.
--
John H

NOAA getting desperate?
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:04:01 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

I've been saying that for years. Prior to the advent of WESATs,
GOSATs and all the other SATS, there must have been storms that nobody
knew about until they were - well, hit land.

Or hit a boat that survived to tell the tale.

Not all of them did.

Deadliest storm ever was unknown until it hit Galveston.
http://www.1900storm.com/facts.lasso

NOAA getting desperate?
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:45:56 -0400, D.Duck penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


My understanding is that it there has to be "hurricane" warnings, not just
a
named storm, some where in the state of Florida.


Would not the warning of a "hurricane" be the warning of a named
storm, since hurricanes are always named?

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats


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My point is that some where in the state of Florida hurricane warnings have
to be "posted" by NOAA. Just a named hurricane some where in the area does
not trigger the "hurricane deductible" in my policy. The hurricane
provisions of the policy remain in affect for 72 hours after the warning(s)
are lifted.

NOAA getting desperate?
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:53:42 -0400, D.Duck penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

My point is that some where in the state of Florida hurricane warnings
have
to be "posted" by NOAA. Just a named hurricane some where in the area
does
not trigger the "hurricane deductible" in my policy. The hurricane
provisions of the policy remain in affect for 72 hours after the
warning(s)
are lifted.

Where is this posted? Perhaps this declaration affects some of the
other posters....

I know my homeowners insurance is "locked" to any changes once a storm
crosses a certain latitude, but I've never considered that there was
any period of special clause exposure after the event (not sure how
they tell 72 hours from ??).

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats


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The following link shows the hurricane and windstorm deductible particulars
for several Atlantic states.

For Florida the 72 hour period ends after the watch/warning is lifted.


http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/i...icanwindstorm/


FLORIDA HURRICANE DEDUCTIBLES

Hurricane deductibles are percentage or dollar deductibles that are higher
than for other causes of loss. They are calculated as a percentage of the
dollar amount of coverage on the dwelling or as a flat dollar amount. By
Florida statute, the application of hurricane deductibles is triggered by
windstorm losses resulting from "a storm system that has been declared to be
a hurricane by the National Hurricane Center of the National Weather
Service." They take effect "at the time a hurricane watch or warning is
issued for any part of Florida" and remain in effect "for the time period
during which the hurricane conditions exist anywhere in Florida," ending 72
hours following the termination of the last hurricane watch or warning. Wind
damage from storm systems other than declared hurricanes is not subject to
the hurricane deductible but to the general deductible. Hurricane
deductibles-as shown in the chart below-and their triggers are set by law
and are the same for the private, or regular market, as well as Florida's
Citizens Property Insurance Corporation, the state-run program which
provides homeowners insurance to consumers. Homeowners pay the deductible
only once during a hurricane season.

NOAA getting desperate?
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:06:51 -0400, D.Duck penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:53:42 -0400, D.Duck penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

My point is that some where in the state of Florida hurricane warnings
have
to be "posted" by NOAA. Just a named hurricane some where in the area
does
not trigger the "hurricane deductible" in my policy. The hurricane
provisions of the policy remain in affect for 72 hours after the
warning(s)
are lifted.

Where is this posted? Perhaps this declaration affects some of the
other posters....


That is the link I originally included in my post. It appears to me
that the FL trigger is that the "...storm system ... has been declared
to be a hurricane by the National Hurricane Center..."


The "trigger" in Florida for "hurricane deductibles" to kick in is issuing a
hurricane (not tropical storm) "watch or warning" any where in the state.
Just "naming" a storm doesn't do anything to the deductibles. What you left
out from your quote above is the following:

....."They take effect "at the time a hurricane watch or warning is issued
for any part of Florida"....


This clause seems to be terribly insurance company friendly...

"[Hurricane deductibles] take effect "at the time a hurricane watch or
warning is issued for any part of Florida" and remain in effect "for
the time period during which the hurricane conditions exist anywhere
in Florida," ending 72 hours following the termination of the last
hurricane watch or warning."


I agree that the 72 hour post warning/watch lifting is quite insurance
company friendly.


--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats


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