"HK" wrote in message
...
Last week, the Bush misadministration refused to tighten or even impose
inspection standards on the importation of Chinese food and "medicines,"

They did? It seems to me that the Bush administration came out in favor of
inspections.

They also issued a new rule last week requiring US exporters to obtain
government approval before shipping high tech goods to China that could be
used for military applications. Too bad the Clinton administration didn't
have that foresight. Of course, they were more interested in renting out the
Lincoln bedroom to the highest bidder than they were in protecting our
national security.

"JimH" ask wrote in message
...

"Hamish" wrote in message
ink.net...
I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal umbrella
policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always comes with it
said, "The definition of insured is revised so that a person or
organization using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is no longer
covered." So, when I let a valet park my car, he's not covered. If I
loan my car to a friend, relative, or neighbor, they're not covered. If
my ski boat was running - it isn't right now - and I let a friend drive it
to tow me, he's not covered. (Yes, I know that my "underlying" car
insurance covers them up to the limits of that policy, but those limits
are only enough to pay for a stubbed toe.)

I called my agent and she was totally unaware of the change, and asked me
to fax her a copy of the brochure. Then, once she called the
underwriters, she still seemed unconcerned. She was happy to quote me
the increase in premiums to bring each of my car polcies up to the same
limits that were formerly covered by the Umbrella. An additional $206
per year. I will pay the money, because I own a home and it is vital that
I remain insured up to a high limit.

I have taken the trouble to write this post because I think that a lot of
other people will fail to read the "Important Notice" (the brochure is 17
pages long), will simply write the check like they do every other year,
and will end up with a big gap in their coverage. And their insurance
agent won't take the trouble to call them or write them a personal letter
telling about the big gap that just opened up in their coverage. So,
look out! And warn your friends.

Ham



1. The valet company should have their own insurance.

Doesn't mean someone won't sue both of you...and collect because of an
idiotic jury.


2. Don't loan your car or boat to anyone outside your family.


In-laws? Parents? Brother? Not practical.


3. Why should the insurance company cover anyone but you and your family?


Because they're insuring the vehicle.

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" ask wrote in message
...

"Hamish" wrote in message
ink.net...
I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal umbrella
policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always comes with it
said, "The definition of insured is revised so that a person or
organization using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is no longer
covered." So, when I let a valet park my car, he's not covered. If I
loan my car to a friend, relative, or neighbor, they're not covered. If
my ski boat was running - it isn't right now - and I let a friend drive
it to tow me, he's not covered. (Yes, I know that my "underlying" car
insurance covers them up to the limits of that policy, but those limits
are only enough to pay for a stubbed toe.)
(clipped)

But how does your auto policy cover your watercraft. My insurance agent
recently pointed out to me that although my homeowners policy specifically
covers a boat up to 14 ft and under 25 hp, that's only while being used in a
body of water totally on my property (my swimming pool, maybe?), my boat
being used on the navigable river in front of my place is no longer covered
as soon as I pull away from my dock. They really want you to spend money to
cover each and every thing you might drive even though you can't drive more
than one vehicle, etc at a time. Furthermore, I would imagine that their
reason to specifically write in the policy that no other person using the
vehicle would be covered is to prevent the lawyers from looking for the
"deepest" pocket to sue in the event of an accident.

Tom G.

Gene Kearns wrote in
:

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:21:12 -0400, "JimH" ask penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


"Hamish" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal
umbrella policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always
comes with it said, "The definition of insured is revised so that a
person or organization using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is
no longer covered." So, when I let a valet park my car, he's not
covered. If I loan my car to a friend, relative, or neighbor,
they're not covered. If my ski boat was running - it isn't right now
- and I let a friend drive it to tow me, he's not covered. (Yes, I
know that my "underlying" car insurance covers them up to the limits
of that policy, but those limits are only enough to pay for a stubbed
toe.)

I called my agent and she was totally unaware of the change, and
asked me to fax her a copy of the brochure. Then, once she called
the underwriters, she still seemed unconcerned. She was happy to
quote me the increase in premiums to bring each of my car polcies up
to the same limits that were formerly covered by the Umbrella. An
additional $206 per year. I will pay the money, because I own a home
and it is vital that I remain insured up to a high limit.

I have taken the trouble to write this post because I think that a
lot of other people will fail to read the "Important Notice" (the
brochure is 17 pages long), will simply write the check like they do
every other year, and will end up with a big gap in their coverage.
And their insurance agent won't take the trouble to call them or
write them a personal letter telling about the big gap that just
opened up in their coverage. So, look out! And warn your friends.

Ham



1. The valet company should have their own insurance.

*You* pay insurance premiums to make sure *you* are covered. Don't
assume that anybody else has you covered (they don't, though they may
try to indemnify themselves). If you have to take them to court, be
sure that you can afford all of the justice that you feel you are
entitled to....

2. Don't loan your car or boat to anyone outside your family.

Ok, I'll buy that, but it doesn't cover any non-loaner legitimate use
of your vehicle. Boats? Marina re-positioning your boat to another
slip (see? says they can do it in the lease agreement..... Personal
injury? You have a dangerous boat! Damage? See no evil, hear no
evil...... see #1 above)

3. Why should the insurance company cover anyone but you and your
family?

Because there *are* no-loaner issues to be dealt with....

So what is the big deal?

You have equity that other people want.... it really is a BIG DEAL!


While admittedly, I don't have the policy you are describing, so I can't
read it, I think you are misconstruing the change. What State Farm is
saying I believe is that your friend who borrows your boat is no longer
an insured on the umbrella, so if he borrows it and kills someone, no
insurance for him, at least from State Farm. But that doesn't mean that
you aren't still an insured if someone sues you as the owner of the boat
(they would probably claim you were negligent to loan the boat to someone
so obviously unskilled). You are still an insured. Same with the car. In
California, car owners are liable for injuries caused by their car no
matter what, even if not negligent and not driving, up to $15K for injury
to one person and $30K for injury to multiple persons and $5K for
property damange. Thus if you loan your car to someone who causes an
injury or damage, your auto insurance will cover you up to these limits
(by law). But if the umbrella insurance company made your friend an
insured, they would have to pay up to the limits of the insurance,
because your friend's liablility (assuming he is found to be the
negligent driver)is not limited. So by eliminating your friend as an
insured, they limit their liability. It's really your friend who is
screwed here, not you. Moral of the story, YOU should never borrow
someone else's car or boat unless you are sure YOUR insurace covers you.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:21:12 -0400, "JimH" ask penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


"Hamish" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal umbrella
policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always comes with it
said,
"The definition of insured is revised so that a person or organization
using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is no longer covered." So,
when
I let a valet park my car, he's not covered. If I loan my car to a
friend,
relative, or neighbor, they're not covered. If my ski boat was running -
it isn't right now - and I let a friend drive it to tow me, he's not
covered. (Yes, I know that my "underlying" car insurance covers them up
to
the limits of that policy, but those limits are only enough to pay for a
stubbed toe.)

I called my agent and she was totally unaware of the change, and asked
me
to fax her a copy of the brochure. Then, once she called the
underwriters, she still seemed unconcerned. She was happy to quote me
the
increase in premiums to bring each of my car polcies up to the same
limits
that were formerly covered by the Umbrella. An additional $206 per
year.
I will pay the money, because I own a home and it is vital that I remain
insured up to a high limit.

I have taken the trouble to write this post because I think that a lot
of
other people will fail to read the "Important Notice" (the brochure is
17
pages long), will simply write the check like they do every other year,
and will end up with a big gap in their coverage. And their insurance
agent won't take the trouble to call them or write them a personal
letter
telling about the big gap that just opened up in their coverage. So,
look
out! And warn your friends.

Ham



1. The valet company should have their own insurance.

*You* pay insurance premiums to make sure *you* are covered. Don't
assume that anybody else has you covered (they don't, though they may
try to indemnify themselves). If you have to take them to court, be
sure that you can afford all of the justice that you feel you are
entitled to....

2. Don't loan your car or boat to anyone outside your family.

Ok, I'll buy that, but it doesn't cover any non-loaner legitimate use
of your vehicle. Boats? Marina re-positioning your boat to another
slip (see? says they can do it in the lease agreement..... Personal
injury? You have a dangerous boat! Damage? See no evil, hear no
evil...... see #1 above)

3. Why should the insurance company cover anyone but you and your family?

Because there *are* no-loaner issues to be dealt with....

So what is the big deal?

You have equity that other people want.... it really is a BIG DEAL!

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

I think folks here, including you Gene, are forgetting the main point. We
are talking about the umbrella (general liability insurance extending past
the upper limits of the main policy), not the main policy itself on the cars
or boat. If damage is done to the the car or boat by a 3rd party driving
them, the main policy will cover the damages if the 3rd party is not
insured. If however, that 3rd party kills someone while driving the car or
boat *they * will be responsible for all claims against them, not the owner
of the vehicle and actual insured.

Why should the insurance company extend *liability* coverage to a 3rd party?

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" ask wrote in message
...

"Hamish" wrote in message
ink.net...
I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal umbrella
policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always comes with it
said, "The definition of insured is revised so that a person or
organization using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is no longer
covered." So, when I let a valet park my car, he's not covered. If I
loan my car to a friend, relative, or neighbor, they're not covered. If
my ski boat was running - it isn't right now - and I let a friend drive
it to tow me, he's not covered. (Yes, I know that my "underlying" car
insurance covers them up to the limits of that policy, but those limits
are only enough to pay for a stubbed toe.)

I called my agent and she was totally unaware of the change, and asked
me to fax her a copy of the brochure. Then, once she called the
underwriters, she still seemed unconcerned. She was happy to quote me
the increase in premiums to bring each of my car polcies up to the same
limits that were formerly covered by the Umbrella. An additional $206
per year. I will pay the money, because I own a home and it is vital
that I remain insured up to a high limit.

I have taken the trouble to write this post because I think that a lot
of other people will fail to read the "Important Notice" (the brochure
is 17 pages long), will simply write the check like they do every other
year, and will end up with a big gap in their coverage. And their
insurance agent won't take the trouble to call them or write them a
personal letter telling about the big gap that just opened up in their
coverage. So, look out! And warn your friends.

Ham



1. The valet company should have their own insurance.

Doesn't mean someone won't sue both of you...and collect because of an
idiotic jury.


2. Don't loan your car or boat to anyone outside your family.


In-laws? Parents? Brother? Not practical.


3. Why should the insurance company cover anyone but you and your
family?


Because they're insuring the vehicle.


See my response to Gene. You are confusing the main policy with the
umbrella policy.

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:30:40 -0400, JimH wrote:


Why should the insurance company extend *liability* coverage to a 3rd
party?

Ask State Farm, they had been doing it. It seems the OP's umbrella just became a parasol.

"thunder" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:30:40 -0400, JimH wrote:


Why should the insurance company extend *liability* coverage to a 3rd
party?

Ask State Farm, they had been doing it. It seems the OP's umbrella just
became a parasol.

That avoids the question. I ask again......why should an insurance company
extend liability coverage to a 3rd party?

State Farm corrected a mistake and did the right thing. The insured is
still protected by the umbrella policy.

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:57:43 -0000, thunder
wrote:

;.On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:30:40 -0400, JimH wrote:


Why should the insurance company extend *liability* coverage to a 3rd
party?

Ask State Farm, they had been doing it. It seems the OP's umbrella just became a parasol.

Well, it doesn't surprise me.

State Farm took a big hit with Katrina and Rita - they have to make
their money somehow.

Oddly, we've been with the same insurance company for - damn, upteen
zillion years (over thirty anyway) and our insurance even went down
last year. Our policy, including umbrella, costs us less now than it
originally did and our net worth, including real estate, boats and
cars is about ten times what it was originally and the policies cover
more than they did originally.

Mrs. Wave even has a seperate ultra high value
liability/omission/comission rider because she goes a lot of
different places with students in her car as part of her profession.

If I were the original poster, I'd start looking around for a
different agent and insurer - State Farm sucks anyway. Good hands my
ass.

And as long as we're on the subject of boats and insurance, don't buy
Progressive boat insurance - talk about a rip off. A friend of my
oldest had Progressive and the boat was whacked in a parking lot. Some
fiberglass damage. Progressive made them take the boat to an auto
body shop that did fiberglass work instead of a boat repair facility.

Think about that one for a while. :)

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:37:12 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:21:12 -0400, "JimH" ask penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


"Hamish" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal umbrella
policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always comes with it said,
"The definition of insured is revised so that a person or organization
using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is no longer covered." So, when
I let a valet park my car, he's not covered. If I loan my car to a friend,
relative, or neighbor, they're not covered. If my ski boat was running -
it isn't right now - and I let a friend drive it to tow me, he's not
covered. (Yes, I know that my "underlying" car insurance covers them up to
the limits of that policy, but those limits are only enough to pay for a
stubbed toe.)

I called my agent and she was totally unaware of the change, and asked me
to fax her a copy of the brochure. Then, once she called the
underwriters, she still seemed unconcerned. She was happy to quote me the
increase in premiums to bring each of my car polcies up to the same limits
that were formerly covered by the Umbrella. An additional $206 per year.
I will pay the money, because I own a home and it is vital that I remain
insured up to a high limit.

I have taken the trouble to write this post because I think that a lot of
other people will fail to read the "Important Notice" (the brochure is 17
pages long), will simply write the check like they do every other year,
and will end up with a big gap in their coverage. And their insurance
agent won't take the trouble to call them or write them a personal letter
telling about the big gap that just opened up in their coverage. So, look
out! And warn your friends.

Ham



1. The valet company should have their own insurance.

*You* pay insurance premiums to make sure *you* are covered. Don't
assume that anybody else has you covered (they don't, though they may
try to indemnify themselves). If you have to take them to court, be
sure that you can afford all of the justice that you feel you are
entitled to....

2. Don't loan your car or boat to anyone outside your family.

Ok, I'll buy that, but it doesn't cover any non-loaner legitimate use
of your vehicle. Boats? Marina re-positioning your boat to another
slip (see? says they can do it in the lease agreement..... Personal
injury? You have a dangerous boat! Damage? See no evil, hear no
evil...... see #1 above)

3. Why should the insurance company cover anyone but you and your family?

Because there *are* no-loaner issues to be dealt with....

So what is the big deal?

You have equity that other people want.... it really is a BIG DEAL!

Bingo. $206 yearly premium increase for the same coverage.

--Vic