On May 22, 6:13 pm, Charlie Morgan wrote:
On 22 May 2007 17:07:44 -0700, Chuck Gould wrote:





On May 22, 8:48 am, Charlie Morgan wrote:
On 22 May 2007 08:09:33 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
On May 21, 6:34 am, Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Mon, 21 May 2007 12:40:25 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Mon, 21 May 2007 10:52:57 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

They are rolling along now on their counter clockwise Great Loop.

Follow along.

http://dnkcruising.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the link. I was reading that he had an engine problem a
couple of days before they set off. I hate that. If he's anything like
me, he'll now have that little seed of doubt in the back of his mind,
just festering. Man, I hate that.

He's a handy guy. Hopefully, it's fixed and the rest will be smooth
sailing.

When Doug bought that tub, many folks questioned the wisdom of a
single engine. Doug's blustery over-confident reply was that with only
one engine, he'd lavish it with twice as much maintenance. Looks like
that was just more wind.

CWM

Darn good thing you never see a twin engine boat getting towed back to
the dock.

Advantages of twins:

1. Redundancy
2. May be easier to handle in some close quarter situations.

(both are important)

Disadvantages of twins:

1. Fuel consumption is 100% higher at the same rpm, (but often only
about 80% higher
at the same speed)

Really? 2 100 hp engines use twice as much fuel as a single 200hp
engine? Amazing! Who woulda thunk it?

It would be extremely atypical to put in two engines each rated at
half the horsepower of a single application. Performance in many cases
would be *worse* than the single engine alternative, as you would be
trying to move a heavier boat with the same total HP.

I'll refer you back to your statement that a twin screw setup would use twice as
much fuel. Lets say that we want to compare 2 140 hp engines to one 200 hp
engine if you think that will somehow make your argument work.

You are just running around trying to move the goal posts at this point. You
said something stupid. Just own up to it, and save us the mindless temper
tantrum.

CWM- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Is there some specific reason that you can't post without making mean
spirited personal remarks? To just about everybody?

You keep referrring to a situation that doesn't commonly exist.
According to your theory, manufacturers routinely install smaller
engines in twin engine configurations.

Allow me to suggest a very commonly encountered example of a boat in
both a single and twin configuration. Doug's boat was never offered in
a twin engine setup, but I will use a boat of similar size and also a
semi-diplacement hull characteristics.

If you access Yachtworld and search for listing #61889-1563030 you
will find a 36-foot Grand Banks Classic. This single engine GB has an
engine rated at 210-HP.

Now search for YW listing #1472-169087. This is a twin engine version
of the same hull in the previous listing. What's it powered with? A
pair of diesels *each* rated for 220 HP. According to your version of
reality, this boat should be powered with maybe a pair of 135's?

Make as many nasty remarks and accuse me of being as "stupid" as you
care to....the fact is that at the same rpm a pair of 220 HP diesels
will burn twice the fuel that a single 210 HP diesel would burn.

So there's my real world example. I now await yours. Please provide
information about any manufacturer that commonly drops the HP of
engines in a twin configuration to 50-60% of the HP used in the same
boat set up as a single screw.

Let's talk real world, not "move the goalposts" to outerspace.

"Chuck Gould" debates with Charlie Morgan in
message oups.com...



If you access Yachtworld and search for listing #61889-1563030 you
will find a 36-foot Grand Banks Classic. This single engine GB has an
engine rated at 210-HP.


Overpowered, go-fast boat!.

Mrs. E's. 36 GB Classic is powered by a single, 120 hp diesel.

Eisboch

On Wed, 23 May 2007 02:12:16 -0400, "RCE" wrote:

Overpowered, go-fast boat!.

BBAAAWWWAAAHHHHHAAAAA!!!

Oh man, that's funny.

Mrs. E's. 36 GB Classic is powered by a single, 120 hp diesel.

I want to take you
on a slow boat to China...

On 23 May 2007 08:28:54 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On May 22, 11:12 pm, "RCE" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" debates with Charlie Morgan in
ooglegroups.com...



If you access Yachtworld and search for listing #61889-1563030 you
will find a 36-foot Grand Banks Classic. This single engine GB has an
engine rated at 210-HP.

Overpowered, go-fast boat!.

Mrs. E's. 36 GB Classic is powered by a single, 120 hp diesel.

Eisboch

And had the original owner opted for twins instead, you'd see a pair
of 120 HP diesels in there, not a pair of 60's or 75's.

Aside from the ****-slinging about size of twins, I've noticed while
reading the journal of a sailing cat circumnavigating that he normally
powers on one engine, alternating which is being used to keep the
hours on them about the same. This cat has twin diesels and a 25'
beam, so I suppose the rudder torque isn't an issue. For docking both
screws are used.
Would a trawler with twins normally power using both engines?
Taking the question of twins out of the realm of speed and into
a fuel miserly usage puts a different light on twins.
What's your experience with twins in a trawler?

--Vic

On Wed, 23 May 2007 15:45:03 GMT, Charlie Morgan
wrote:

This seems to be very important to you. Are you really this insecure?

And you Charlie, are you this big a twerp in real life?

Vic Smith wrote:
On 23 May 2007 08:28:54 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On May 22, 11:12 pm, "RCE" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" debates with Charlie Morgan in
ooglegroups.com...



If you access Yachtworld and search for listing #61889-1563030 you
will find a 36-foot Grand Banks Classic. This single engine GB has an
engine rated at 210-HP.
Overpowered, go-fast boat!.

Mrs. E's. 36 GB Classic is powered by a single, 120 hp diesel.

Eisboch
And had the original owner opted for twins instead, you'd see a pair
of 120 HP diesels in there, not a pair of 60's or 75's.

Aside from the ****-slinging about size of twins, I've noticed while
reading the journal of a sailing cat circumnavigating that he normally
powers on one engine, alternating which is being used to keep the
hours on them about the same. This cat has twin diesels and a 25'
beam, so I suppose the rudder torque isn't an issue. For docking both
screws are used.
Would a trawler with twins normally power using both engines?
Taking the question of twins out of the realm of speed and into
a fuel miserly usage puts a different light on twins.
What's your experience with twins in a trawler?

--Vic


I know the captain who pilots one of the local large steel-hulled tour
boats. Twin diesels. He runs on one engine at a time. Monday, port
engine, Tuesday, starboard engine, et cetera. I noticed this about a
year ago the first time, after he invited me into the pilot house and I
saw that one of the tachs was pegged at zero the entire trip.

On Wed, 23 May 2007 11:48:04 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Would a trawler with twins normally power using both engines?
Taking the question of twins out of the realm of speed and into
a fuel miserly usage puts a different light on twins.
What's your experience with twins in a trawler?

I have a trawler with twin diesels, and running on both engines is the
normal mode of operation for us and others. I like the redundancy but
I'm sure there is a price in fuel economy. It's difficult to say just
how much but probably at least 50% greater. At low engine output
there is a great deal of power wasted just in overcoming friction in
the redundant engine, transmission and running gear.

Either of my engines could easily power the boat at hull speed in
normal conditions. Running single is a possibility but that has other
issues, and you are also dragging around a large unused prop.

On Wed, 23 May 2007 13:36:34 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

I have a trawler with twin diesels, and running on both engines is the
normal mode of operation for us and others. I like the redundancy but
I'm sure there is a price in fuel economy. It's difficult to say just
how much but probably at least 50% greater. At low engine output
there is a great deal of power wasted just in overcoming friction in
the redundant engine, transmission and running gear.

Either of my engines could easily power the boat at hull speed in
normal conditions. Running single is a possibility but that has other
issues, and you are also dragging around a large unused prop.

I understand the prop drag, but what are the other issues, besides the
obvious higher rpm on the running engine?
The redundancy is a big advantage, and I'm wondering if there is a
sweet spot regarding speed/hull/engines/prop where you can have your
twins and still minimize fuel consumption without paying too much on
the other "issues."

--Vic

On 23 May 2007 10:51:31 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:



Long range passage makers routinely run only one engine in a twin
screw trawler.
In my experience, observation, and conversations most local cruisers
just out for a weekend run won't bother to do so.

Some transmissions are more forgiving of "freewheeling" than others,
while in other cases it's necessary to physically brake the idle shaft
to prevent transmission damage.

The freewheeling/tranny damage is probably one of the issues Wayne
alluded to. Something to consider when buying a trawler then.
Thanks.

--Vic

On Wed, 23 May 2007 13:07:53 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On 23 May 2007 10:51:31 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:



Long range passage makers routinely run only one engine in a twin
screw trawler.
In my experience, observation, and conversations most local cruisers
just out for a weekend run won't bother to do so.

Some transmissions are more forgiving of "freewheeling" than others,
while in other cases it's necessary to physically brake the idle shaft
to prevent transmission damage.

The freewheeling/tranny damage is probably one of the issues Wayne
alluded to. Something to consider when buying a trawler then.
Thanks.

Uh, not suggesting I'm in the market for a trawler. Got's to get
diesel back down to a buck a gallon first (-:

--Vic