I'm in the process of selling the Halman and I had a guy who was
really interested in it. I spent four hours on the phone with him, I
took a ton of pictures and he made an unseen offer contingent on
viewing the boat. I explained to him exactly what the boat was and
what was wrong. He asked if he could being a surveyor along - fine,
no problem there.

I sent him a copy of the survey I had done this spring. The surveyor
basically said the same thing I did - the Halman needs some minor
cosmetic work (like the wood needs to be stripped and revarnished -
the hull could use a good compounding with Finesse It II, etc.) but
the basic boat is structurally sound, no leaks, no blisters, the
stainless is in amazing shape as are the sails and rigging. The cabin
doesn't leak anywhere, window seals are excellent - everything you
would want in a gunk holer type sailboat. The trailer needs a good
sandblast and paint job, but is servicable as a road trailer.

He came to see it this afternoon and brought a "surveyor" friend,
looked it over. I was a little suspicious as he kept calling it a
Nordic 20 - technically, I guess that is correct, but it's a Halman
Nordic 20 and in a lot of ways, a completely different boat. He kept
asking some really stupid questions like where the keel bolts were
(huh?) and the water tank (I understand that the Halman specs call for
one, but this doesn't have that option). He nitpicked the color -
apparently it's not a standard offered color (which may or may not be
true - I've seen pictures of a Halman in the same shade of brown in
Florida) insisting that the boat had been painted and that wasn't the
original color. He wanted to see where the blisters were - all these
boats according to him had blister problems. Made a big deal about
the bottom paint (which needs doing - I admitted that up front) and
the fact that there wasn't a barrier coat. According to the
"surveyor", water can creep into the keel and deform the lead over the
winter (the Halman doesn't have lead in it's keel - it's encapsulated
steel).

After an hour of this bull****, I was getting a little annoyed, but
kept cool. Finally, they left and the potential buyer said he'd get
back to me tonight.

I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
based on his "surveyor's" report.

I hung up on him.

On May 9, 8:54 pm, Tom Francis wrote:


I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
based on his "surveyor's" report.

I hung up on him.


Maybe his "surveyer" had a boat for sale too?

On May 9, 5:54�pm, Tom Francis wrote:
I'm in the process of selling the Halman and I had a guy who was
really interested in it. I spent four hours on the phone with him, I
took a ton of pictures and he made an unseen offer contingent on
viewing the boat. *I explained to him exactly what the boat was and
what was wrong. *He asked if he could being a surveyor along - fine,
no problem there. *

I sent him a copy of the survey I had done this spring. The surveyor
basically said the same thing I did - the Halman needs some minor
cosmetic work *(like the wood needs to be stripped and revarnished -
the hull could use a good compounding with Finesse It II, etc.) but
the basic boat is structurally sound, no leaks, no blisters, the
stainless is in amazing shape as are the sails and rigging. *The cabin
doesn't leak anywhere, window seals are excellent - everything *you
would want in a gunk holer type sailboat. *The trailer needs a good
sandblast and paint job, but is servicable as a road trailer.

He came to see it this afternoon and brought a "surveyor" friend,
looked it over. *I was a little suspicious as he kept calling it a
Nordic 20 - technically, I guess that is correct, but it's a Halman
Nordic 20 and in a lot of ways, a completely different boat. He kept
asking some really stupid questions like where the keel bolts were
(huh?) and the water tank (I understand that the Halman specs call for
one, but this doesn't have that option). *He nitpicked the color -
apparently it's not a standard offered color (which may or may not be
true - I've seen pictures of a Halman in the same shade of brown in
Florida) insisting that the boat had been painted and that wasn't the
original color. *He wanted to see where the blisters were - all these
boats according to him had blister problems. *Made a big deal about
the bottom paint (which needs doing - I admitted that up front) and
the fact that there wasn't a barrier coat. *According to the
"surveyor", water can creep into the keel and deform the lead over the
winter (the Halman doesn't have lead in it's keel - it's encapsulated
steel).

After an hour of this bull****, I was getting a little annoyed, but
kept cool. Finally, they left and the potential buyer said he'd get
back to me tonight.

I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
based on his "surveyor's" report.

I hung up on him.

The friend definitely wasn't a professional surveyor.

A true surveyor concentrates on preparing an objective report about
the condition of the vessel, not verbally challenging representations
made by the seller. He asked you where the blisters were? That's
bogus. The boat either has blisters or it doesn't. If it has blisters,
the "surveyor" should be able to find them and wouldn't need you to
point them out.

That's the downside of an industry where the right to call oneself a
"surveyor" can be purchased with a box of business cards and hand
lettering 3x5 index cards to thumbtack to the bulletin boards at local
marinas. Even the professional associations are pretty weak, seemingly
more concerned with making poor surveyors better than with turning
down their membership application (and dues checks).

Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.

On 9 May 2007 18:28:05 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.

Thanks - it just ****ed me off. I could never do retail boat sales -
I'd end up shooting somebody. :)

I figure it's worth about $4500 +/- a couple of hundred. It is what
it is - a sound boat in sound mechanical condition with a full suite
of sails, covers with a trailer and a 10 horse electric start
outboard.

Not fancy - just a great little gunk holer. If somebody wants to turn
it into a project, it would be great for that also.

I just don't have the time.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 9 May 2007 18:28:05 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.

Thanks - it just ****ed me off. I could never do retail boat sales -
I'd end up shooting somebody. :)

I figure it's worth about $4500 +/- a couple of hundred. It is what
it is - a sound boat in sound mechanical condition with a full suite
of sails, covers with a trailer and a 10 horse electric start
outboard.

Not fancy - just a great little gunk holer. If somebody wants to turn
it into a project, it would be great for that also.

I just don't have the time.

Don't waste a minute on idiots like that. Nordicas were made by a different
company.
As I mentioned before that boat is worth $6K CDN up here.
http://sailquest.com/market/models/halman.htm
and I've seen 'cream puff' versions asking $10K CDN.

here are three listings on a boating classified site..
Halman 20 1979
With extended cruising possiblities via trailer. Pocket cruiser that
has been to Florida and Bahamas and proven herself capable and is ready to
go again! Comes equipped. Contact Harry for details. Live your dream for!
CDN $9,999 neg
(905) 697-3205 anytime
E-mail:


Halman 20 1981
Robust seaworthy sloop. Excellent condition. With Immaculate 2006
9.9hp brand new: motor, battery, charger, cushions, flares, ladder. Main,
headsail, +Genoa. VHF, GPS, head, cradle, watertank, groundtackle, etc.
Check reputation.
CDN $8,500
(705) 868-8405 day
E-mail:
Web: fleming0.flemingc.on.ca/~bwutty/halman.htm


Halman 20/21 (Bowsprit) 1980
New sails, furling, VHF, refit 2006, Honda 7.5, cradle. Lying POH
Kingston, Ontario.
CDN $8,750 frm
(613) 547-4492 evening

On Wed, 9 May 2007 23:11:34 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On 9 May 2007 18:28:05 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.

Thanks - it just ****ed me off. I could never do retail boat sales -
I'd end up shooting somebody. :)

I figure it's worth about $4500 +/- a couple of hundred. It is what
it is - a sound boat in sound mechanical condition with a full suite
of sails, covers with a trailer and a 10 horse electric start
outboard.

Not fancy - just a great little gunk holer. If somebody wants to turn
it into a project, it would be great for that also.

I just don't have the time.

Don't waste a minute on idiots like that. Nordicas were made by a different
company.
As I mentioned before that boat is worth $6K CDN up here.
http://sailquest.com/market/models/halman.htm
and I've seen 'cream puff' versions asking $10K CDN.

Thanks.

Part of the problem is that everybody knows Nordica 20s, but they
don't know Halman's. Why? I don't know.

As I said, it's in decent shape, but I'm not giving it away to get rid
of it. Quite beyond the fact that I've got some money invested in it,
I'd like to give my Uncle some money off the sale too - not a lot,
just a little to make him feel better about selling his baby that he
couldn't sail anymore.

We'll see.

On May 9, 6:52�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 9 May 2007 18:28:05 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.

Thanks - it just ****ed me off. *I could never do retail boat sales -
I'd end up shooting somebody. *:)

I figure it's worth about $4500 +/- a couple of hundred. *It is what
it is - a sound boat in sound mechanical condition with a full suite
of sails, covers with a trailer and a 10 horse electric start
outboard.

Then it's the idiot who offered you $600 who is the loser in this
situation, not you.


Justice will prevail on the day when he finds somebody who accepts his
$600 offer on what should be a $4500 boat and the buyer only finds out
exactly why after the deal is done and the money has changed
hands. :-)

On 9 May 2007 19:58:54 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On May 9, 6:52?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 9 May 2007 18:28:05 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.

Thanks - it just ****ed me off. could never do retail boat sales -
I'd end up shooting somebody. :)

I figure it's worth about $4500 +/- a couple of hundred. t is what
it is - a sound boat in sound mechanical condition with a full suite
of sails, covers with a trailer and a 10 horse electric start
outboard.

Then it's the idiot who offered you $600 who is the loser in this
situation, not you.

Justice will prevail on the day when he finds somebody who accepts his
$600 offer on what should be a $4500 boat and the buyer only finds out
exactly why after the deal is done and the money has changed
hands. :-)

I am a firm believer in karma Chuck. He will get bit in the ass at
some point - I just wish I could be there to see it. :)

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


I am a firm believer in karma Chuck. He will get bit in the ass at
some point - I just wish I could be there to see it. :)

Sometimes it takes awhile for Karma to perform it's magic, but it does
eventually catch up with people.

On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:28:01 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:



I am a firm believer in karma Chuck. He will get bit in the ass at
some point - I just wish I could be there to see it. :)

You gave him some instant karma when you hung up on him.
All that went before was a form of participatory theater.
You were the audience.
Thanks for the review.
I've seen these kinds of plays before as I'm sure you have.
Sounds to me like you were too tired to participate fully, otherwise
you could have got rid of this joker early if you really wanted
the curtain to come down.
How many guys here have run into these clowns trying to sell you
something you don't want? This "buyer" was playing all the sales
tricks.
My favorites are the ones who get mad when you flat out tell them to
beat it. It's sort of fun being director and actor at once.
Cars are a lot easier to buy because they have established values
with blue book, assuming some minimum conditions.
I've bought quite a few used cars from private sellers who were
asking blue book and I just gave it to them without haggling.
Most of these were for my 7 kids.
One I offered $500 less because it was a Pontiac and the kid picked
it. I always pick certain Chevys.
The seller said no, and I said ok, let's do it at your price. The car
worked out fine, despite me breaking my certain Chevy only rule.
I'm just glad I don't sell anything myself, since I get enough theater
from the actors trying to sell me something.
Your story and Einboch's tire story just have me shaking my head,
wishing I could have seen it.
Great stories.

--Vic