On May 10, 4:45�am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 10 May 2007 03:33:48 -0400, "RCE" wrote:
I guess everyone has to negotiate, regardless of the price

I know what you mean.

Then there's negotiation and negotiation. *I'm not a negotiator in any
sense of the word. *I always buy my cars from the same dealer (have
for over thirty years), I've bought my boat engines from the same
dealer (plus about 8 boats over 30 years), I always have car repairs
done by the same mechanic, etc. *I value them as friends and business
men/women and they value me as a customer. *If they say this is the
price, fine - I have faith that I'm not getting hosed and in fact, I'm
not. *One the other hand, they have faith that I will return when
necessary and that I'm easy to deal with. *There is an added advantage
that if I show up with a problem, it's taken care of immediately - I
don't expect that kind of treatment and insist that it be taken care
of in order so not to unconvinced others, but...

I just hate it when things like this happen. *It's not that I expect
people to buy it if I work hard at giving them the information they
want - that's part of selling something.

I do expect to be treated with respect like any other normal human
being. *This clown was talking about the auto jib furler. *It's a
Harken furler, but he was all hot and bothered because it wasn't a CDI
which is more common thus better.

What?

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know about a lot of things -
I'm not the Universal Renaissance Man. Larger cruising boats for
instance and I haven't sailed in years so there are gaps in my
knowledge. *But I'm not stupid and I do know the basics and I do know
small boats. *I can also research and talk to others who do know.

You respect me and I'll respect you and we'll get things done. *I
insisted on it in my business dealings and I expect it personally.

~~ sigh ~~

Rant off. *:)

When you make a living buying and selling high ticket retail, as I did
for the majority of my working life, you come to expect the sort of
treatment you got from your "buyer". It's fairly routine. The trick
is in not letting the *******s get you down. I've listened to
salespeople lie their butts off, and I've listened to buyers doing the
same. I'm here to tell you, the typical salesperson on his very best
day can't hold a candle to some of the consumers who walk in with the
attitude that salespeople are all lying scumbags, and then proceed to
outlie the most dishonest salesman on the premises.

I think it's always been this way in a market where the prices aren't
fixed. Doesn't matter whether it's a Mexican flea market, a corner
vegetable stand in Europe, or a jewelry wholesale firm in NYC.
Particularly those buyers who aren't interested in establishing a
relationship and becoming repeat buyers will use every trick they have
ever heard of and invent a few more if required. :-)

On 10 May 2007 08:47:27 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:


When you make a living buying and selling high ticket retail, as I did
for the majority of my working life, you come to expect the sort of
treatment you got from your "buyer". It's fairly routine. The trick
is in not letting the *******s get you down. I've listened to
salespeople lie their butts off, and I've listened to buyers doing the
same. I'm here to tell you, the typical salesperson on his very best
day can't hold a candle to some of the consumers who walk in with the
attitude that salespeople are all lying scumbags, and then proceed to
outlie the most dishonest salesman on the premises.

I think it's always been this way in a market where the prices aren't
fixed. Doesn't matter whether it's a Mexican flea market, a corner
vegetable stand in Europe, or a jewelry wholesale firm in NYC.
Particularly those buyers who aren't interested in establishing a
relationship and becoming repeat buyers will use every trick they have
ever heard of and invent a few more if required. :-)

Good point.

Although I'd still prefer to shoot 'em. :)

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...


After an hour of this bull****, I was getting a little annoyed, but
kept cool. Finally, they left and the potential buyer said he'd get
back to me tonight.

I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
based on his "surveyor's" report.

I hung up on him.


I hate selling stuff period. When it comes to boats, I'd rather sell
through a reputable broker and pay him a commission, allowing him to
screen the tire kickers from the serious buyers.

It's not just boats either. I recently sold a custom built Harley that I
had advertised on Craigslist. Long story short .... the initial potential
buyer jerked me around with promises for over a month while he tried to
obtain financing to buy it. This is after I explained to him that it was
a custom build, had been inspected by the MA State Police and issued a MA
VIN number and title, but not all banks would finance custom built bikes
without a manufacturer's assigned VIN. (they can't look the value up in a
book) I also explained that I had priced the bike at well below it's
value to make it attractive to a cash buyer and provided documentation of
the cost to build to prove it. He told me he would be paying cash. He
was a director of something at a large food supply company in CT ... a
typical self-important yuppie. After a month of delays .... important job
meetings, sick mother-in-law, etc. he emailed that he was ready to do the
deal and would call me the next day. I said fine. Never heard from him
again.
(Learned my lesson .... next time a deposit will be required).

Then .... Mrs. E. had purchased a set of OEM rims and winter tires for
the '06 BMW 750il that she had for a short period of time. She paid about
$3600 for the set, never used them, and ended up trading the car for a
Z4si. I got tired (pun intended) of storing them, tried unsuccessfully
to sell them back to the dealer and finally listed them on Craigslist for
$500 just to get rid of them. I had guys wanting to try them on other
BMW series cars, but they wanted the option of getting their money back if
they didn't fit. (give me a break!) Then, a guy with a new seven series
BMW called and wanted them. He couldn't believe I only wanted 500 bucks
for them and showed up to buy them. He inspected them, looked at me and
said, "Will you take $450?"

I guess everyone has to negotiate, regardless of the price. I hesitated
for a second, then said "fine" and helped him load them in his truck.

Eisboch



I would have said $500.00 'Firm'.....

"Don White" wrote in message
...

He inspected them, looked at me and
said, "Will you take $450?"

I guess everyone has to negotiate, regardless of the price. I hesitated
for a second, then said "fine" and helped him load them in his truck.

Eisboch




I would have said $500.00 'Firm'.....

Believe me, it flashed through my mind, but I thought better of it and said
to hell with it.

Eisboch

On May 10, 12:33�am, "RCE" wrote:
"Tom Francis" wrote in message

...



After an hour of this bull****, I was getting a little annoyed, but
kept cool. Finally, they left and the potential buyer said he'd get
back to me tonight.

I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
based on his "surveyor's" report.

I hung up on him.

I hate selling stuff period. *When it comes to boats, I'd rather sell
through a reputable broker and pay him a commission, allowing him to screen
the tire kickers from the serious buyers.

It's not just boats either. *I recently sold a custom built Harley that I
had advertised on Craigslist. *Long story short .... the initial potential
buyer jerked me around with promises for over a month while he tried to
obtain financing to buy it. *This is after I explained to him that it was a
custom build, had been inspected by the MA State Police and issued a MA VIN
number and title, but not all banks would finance custom built bikes without
a manufacturer's assigned VIN. (they can't look the value up in a book) * I
also explained that I had priced the bike at well below it's value to make
it attractive to a cash buyer and provided documentation of the cost to
build to prove it. *He told me he would be paying cash. *He was a director
of something at a large food supply company in CT ... a typical
self-important yuppie. *After a month of delays .... important job meetings,
sick mother-in-law, etc. *he emailed that he was ready to do the deal and
would call me the next day. *I said fine. *Never heard from him again.
(Learned my lesson .... next time a deposit will be required).

Then .... Mrs. E. *had purchased a set of OEM rims and winter tires for the
'06 BMW 750il that she had for a short period of time. *She paid about $3600
for the set, never used them, and ended up trading the car for a Z4si. * I
got tired *(pun intended) of storing them, tried unsuccessfully to sell them
back to the dealer and finally listed them on Craigslist for $500 *just to
get rid of them. * I had guys wanting to try them on other BMW series cars,
but they wanted the option of getting their money back if they didn't fit.
(give me a break!) * Then, a guy with a new seven series BMW called and
wanted them. *He couldn't believe I only wanted 500 bucks for them and
showed up to buy them. *He inspected them, looked at me and said, *"Will you
take $450?"

I guess everyone has to negotiate, regardless of the price. *I hesitated for
a second, then said "fine" and helped him load them in his truck.

Eisboch


I just aborted a deal with a guy who wanted to buy three rentals down
in Tacoma. He made an unsolicited offer, but his timing was pretty
good as we have decided to relocate some of our RE investments. The
group he was interested in was comprised of some single family homes
we bought about 30 years ago and have been rentals ever since. We
thought we would need to do some remodeling and upgrading to attract
"retail" or owner-occupier buyers, and this fellow was offering prices
that we felt were pretty close to what we would net if we spent the
fixup money and listed them through a realtor. We made him a "package"
price on the three, on an as-is basis. He reserved the right to
"inspect" the properties, and we assigned individual prices on each
house in the package to draw up three earnest money agreements.

Following his inspection, we renegotiated the price on one of the
three as there was legitmately some additional damage we weren't aware
of.

When it was time to close, we discovered that he couldn't perform. He
had managed to "flip" his position on one of the earnest money
agreements, and despite his assurances that he was buying these houses
to fix up and hold as rentals we learned that he had been desperately
trying to flip his positions on all three since the beginning.
(Apparently we made a "better" deal and he made a "worse" deal than
either of us realized).

He insisted that we were obligated to close on the one property he was
in a position to buy. I told him to take a walk, since the price of
that property reflected his agreement to buy three houses and by
purchasing only one house he was breaching the scope of our overall
agreement. He said he would take me to court to force me to comply,
but backed off when I didn't crumble under the threat. I also told him
I was pretty sure that he would lose, although it would be up to the
judge to decide, and that it would cost him more to sue me than he had
probably made by flipping his position on an old rental.

Moral of the story; it doesn't matter what is being sold or how many
dollars are invovled, some sellers and some buyers are simply going to
be dishonest. It's not news of any kind that some people will lie,
cheat, steal, insult, and generally behave in an abusive manner if
they think they can wrangle a dime's worth of advantage in the
process. The humorous aspect of my situation with these old houses in
Tacoma is that the buyer kept assuring me that he would have no
problem paying cash, that his family had recently returned from an
extended overseas mission trip for his church, yada, yada, yada. I
should have smelled a rat. :-)

On 10 May 2007 09:17:57 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

The humorous aspect of my situation with these old houses in
Tacoma is that the buyer kept assuring me that he would have no
problem paying cash, that his family had recently returned from an
extended overseas mission trip for his church, yada, yada, yada. I
should have smelled a rat. :-)

When you're acting as a banker, I'd recommend acting like a bank.

You're entitled to ask for a full financial statement documenting the
source of all funds in the transaction.

On May 10, 11:44?am, Wayne.B wrote:
On 10 May 2007 09:17:57 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
The humorous aspect of my situation with these old houses in
Tacoma is that the buyer kept assuring me that he would have no
problem paying cash, that his family had recently returned from an
extended overseas mission trip for his church, yada, yada, yada. I
should have smelled a rat. :-)

When you're acting as a banker, I'd recommend acting like a bank.

You're entitled to ask for a full financial statement documenting the
source of all funds in the transaction.

Yes, but in this case I had nothing at risk. Nothing changes hands
before he can perfrom, and he did forfeit his earnest money deposits.

"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...
I'm in the process of selling the Halman and I had a guy who was
really interested in it. I spent four hours on the phone with him, I
took a ton of pictures and he made an unseen offer contingent on
viewing the boat. I explained to him exactly what the boat was and
what was wrong. He asked if he could being a surveyor along - fine,
no problem there.

I sent him a copy of the survey I had done this spring. The surveyor
basically said the same thing I did - the Halman needs some minor
cosmetic work (like the wood needs to be stripped and revarnished -
the hull could use a good compounding with Finesse It II, etc.) but
the basic boat is structurally sound, no leaks, no blisters, the
stainless is in amazing shape as are the sails and rigging. The cabin
doesn't leak anywhere, window seals are excellent - everything you
would want in a gunk holer type sailboat. The trailer needs a good
sandblast and paint job, but is servicable as a road trailer.

He came to see it this afternoon and brought a "surveyor" friend,
looked it over. I was a little suspicious as he kept calling it a
Nordic 20 - technically, I guess that is correct, but it's a Halman
Nordic 20 and in a lot of ways, a completely different boat. He kept
asking some really stupid questions like where the keel bolts were
(huh?) and the water tank (I understand that the Halman specs call for
one, but this doesn't have that option). He nitpicked the color -
apparently it's not a standard offered color (which may or may not be
true - I've seen pictures of a Halman in the same shade of brown in
Florida) insisting that the boat had been painted and that wasn't the
original color. He wanted to see where the blisters were - all these
boats according to him had blister problems. Made a big deal about
the bottom paint (which needs doing - I admitted that up front) and
the fact that there wasn't a barrier coat. According to the
"surveyor", water can creep into the keel and deform the lead over the
winter (the Halman doesn't have lead in it's keel - it's encapsulated
steel).

After an hour of this bull****, I was getting a little annoyed, but
kept cool. Finally, they left and the potential buyer said he'd get
back to me tonight.

I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
based on his "surveyor's" report.

I hung up on him.


How much are you asking for it?

On Thu, 10 May 2007 12:02:53 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

How much are you asking for it?

I'll take $4,500 which is about what it's worth.

Hell, I'll sell it to Don for $4,000 if he pays for transorting it to
Halifax. :)

On May 9, 8:54 pm, Tom Francis wrote:
I'm in the process of selling the Halman and I had a guy who was
really interested in it. I spent four hours on the phone with him, I
took a ton of pictures and he made an unseen offer contingent on
viewing the boat. I explained to him exactly what the boat was and
what was wrong. He asked if he could being a surveyor along - fine,
no problem there.

I sent him a copy of the survey I had done this spring. The surveyor
basically said the same thing I did - the Halman needs some minor
cosmetic work (like the wood needs to be stripped and revarnished -
the hull could use a good compounding with Finesse It II, etc.) but
the basic boat is structurally sound, no leaks, no blisters, the
stainless is in amazing shape as are the sails and rigging. The cabin
doesn't leak anywhere, window seals are excellent - everything you
would want in a gunk holer type sailboat. The trailer needs a good
sandblast and paint job, but is servicable as a road trailer.

He came to see it this afternoon and brought a "surveyor" friend,
looked it over. I was a little suspicious as he kept calling it a
Nordic 20 - technically, I guess that is correct, but it's a Halman
Nordic 20 and in a lot of ways, a completely different boat. He kept
asking some really stupid questions like where the keel bolts were
(huh?) and the water tank (I understand that the Halman specs call for
one, but this doesn't have that option). He nitpicked the color -
apparently it's not a standard offered color (which may or may not be
true - I've seen pictures of a Halman in the same shade of brown in
Florida) insisting that the boat had been painted and that wasn't the
original color. He wanted to see where the blisters were - all these
boats according to him had blister problems. Made a big deal about
the bottom paint (which needs doing - I admitted that up front) and
the fact that there wasn't a barrier coat. According to the
"surveyor", water can creep into the keel and deform the lead over the
winter (the Halman doesn't have lead in it's keel - it's encapsulated
steel).

After an hour of this bull****, I was getting a little annoyed, but
kept cool. Finally, they left and the potential buyer said he'd get
back to me tonight.

I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
based on his "surveyor's" report.

I hung up on him.

Why not hire a broker and avoid all that agrivation?