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What did these sailors do wrong?
http://www.wvec.com/news/local/stori...642a3b1 .html
Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? A fluke? How would a Mac 26M fare in these situations? If the boat isn't sinking, when would you send the distress signal? --Vic |
What did these sailors do wrong?
Vic Smith wrote in
: Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today. A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us. They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This statement from the webpage says it all: "a couple in their 70’s and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200 miles out to sea." IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!! As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then, we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for. NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE SEAMEN! Larry -- This spammer called my cellphone: First American Payment 10101 E Arapaho Rd Richardson, TX 75081 972-301-3766 They were nasty when I politely said I wasn't interested....(c; |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On Tue, 08 May 2007 07:06:46 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote: http://www.wvec.com/news/local/stori...642a3b1 .html Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? A fluke? As of Friday morning, May 4, it was forecasted as a developing low pressure system with sustained winds over 30 kts. Hardly a surprise to anyone who was paying attention. How would a Mac 26M fare in these situations? Your guess is as good as anyone else. No one in their right mind would go off shore in a boat not designed for that kind of use. If the boat isn't sinking, when would you send the distress signal? If you have people seriously injured there isn't much choice. Boats are usually tougher than people, and broken ribs, dehydration, or hypothermia can all be life threatning. |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On Tue, 08 May 2007 09:21:52 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Tue, 08 May 2007 07:06:46 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: http://www.wvec.com/news/local/stori...642a3b1 .html Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? A fluke? As of Friday morning, May 4, it was forecasted as a developing low pressure system with sustained winds over 30 kts. Hardly a surprise to anyone who was paying attention. How would a Mac 26M fare in these situations? Your guess is as good as anyone else. No one in their right mind would go off shore in a boat not designed for that kind of use. If the boat isn't sinking, when would you send the distress signal? If you have people seriously injured there isn't much choice. Boats are usually tougher than people, and broken ribs, dehydration, or hypothermia can all be life threatning. There were broken ribs in one case here. And the seas were pretty vicious from all accounts. I guess I asked this because I've seen accounts where some ride it out while others decide - with no injuries - to pack it in, leaving their vessels for salvors. Probably too individual a thing to answer unless you've gone through it. And maybe, despite all efforts, I could get caught in a similar situation, and I'm thinking that there are some measures of preparedness that could help ride it out. Sea anchors, harnesses, topside liferafts that would deploy if the boat sank, personal EPIRB's, etc. Could be that preparedness would lessen the urge to abandon. Just hate the thought of abandoning a boat and putting the coasties at risk when it's not a vital need. --Vic |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On Tue, 08 May 2007 12:44:49 +0000, Larry wrote:
Vic Smith wrote in : Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today. A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us. They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This statement from the webpage says it all: "a couple in their 70’s and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200 miles out to sea." IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!! As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then, we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for. NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE SEAMEN! Can't argue with most of that, and won't with any. --Vic |
What did these sailors do wrong?
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
... http://www.wvec.com/news/local/stori...642a3b1 .html Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? A fluke? How would a Mac 26M fare in these situations? If the boat isn't sinking, when would you send the distress signal? --Vic You'd be dead in short order. Have any idea what it like to exist inside a washing machine, only with drawers and shop objects flying around? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
What did these sailors do wrong?
"Larry" wrote in message ... IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!! As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then, we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for. NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE SEAMEN! Larry Well, that's the Nanny State solution, sure. The Free Citizen solution would be more along the lines of, "Go and do what you want. But if you get into a world of hurt and want to be rescued, you will receive a bill for our services." Nah, can't have that. Too much freedom. |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On Tue, 8 May 2007 07:23:16 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . http://www.wvec.com/news/local/stori...642a3b1 .html Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? A fluke? How would a Mac 26M fare in these situations? If the boat isn't sinking, when would you send the distress signal? --Vic You'd be dead in short order. Have any idea what it like to exist inside a washing machine, only with drawers and shop objects flying around? No, never tried that. Are the drawers just dungarees or the wooden kind that slide into cabinets? Are the shop objects rags or drill presses and bench grinders? These are compelling questions. --Vic |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On May 8, 5:44 am, Larry wrote:
Vic Smith wrote : Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today. A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us. They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This statement from the webpage says it all: "a couple in their 70's and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200 miles out to sea." IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!! As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then, we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for. NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE SEAMEN! Larry -- This spammer called my cellphone: First American Payment 10101 E Arapaho Rd Richardson, TX 75081 972-301-3766 They were nasty when I politely said I wasn't interested....(c; There's no absolute age when you no longer belong on the water. One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple of years younger. Two other friends of mine are enroute to Alaska right this minute aboard their 48-foot DeFever. He's 81 and runs the boat, she's 62 or 63. They are running a blog called Big Brivet's Big Adventure ("Big Brivet" is the name of their boat). On the other hand, my father is in his late 70's. He would have no business aboard a boat, even as a passenger. He's got a leg and hip that was messed up pretty badly in an auto accident 30-40 years ago and he thought he would just "tough it out" rather than get it fixed. He limped for a long time, but now he can't get around without a walker. |
What did these sailors do wrong?
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
... On Tue, 8 May 2007 07:23:16 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message . .. http://www.wvec.com/news/local/stori...642a3b1 .html Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? A fluke? How would a Mac 26M fare in these situations? If the boat isn't sinking, when would you send the distress signal? --Vic You'd be dead in short order. Have any idea what it like to exist inside a washing machine, only with drawers and shop objects flying around? No, never tried that. Are the drawers just dungarees or the wooden kind that slide into cabinets? Are the shop objects rags or drill presses and bench grinders? These are compelling questions. --Vic Yes, I'm sure they are for some people. Best of luck with your Mac. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On May 8, 7:09�am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2007 09:21:52 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 08 May 2007 07:06:46 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: http://www.wvec.com/news/local/stori...0707_uscg_resc... Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? A fluke? As of Friday morning, May 4, it was forecasted as a developing low pressure system with sustained winds over 30 kts. *Hardly a surprise to anyone who was paying attention. How would a Mac 26M fare in these situations? Your guess is as good as anyone else. *No one in their right mind would go off shore in a boat not designed for that kind of use. If the boat isn't sinking, when would you send the distress signal? If you have people seriously injured there isn't much choice. *Boats are usually tougher than people, and broken ribs, dehydration, or hypothermia can all be life threatning. There were broken ribs in one case here. *And the seas were pretty vicious from all accounts. *I guess I asked this because I've seen accounts where some ride it out while others decide - with no injuries - to pack it in, leaving their vessels for salvors. Probably too individual a thing to answer unless you've gone through it. And maybe, despite all efforts, I could get caught in a similar situation, and I'm thinking that there are some measures of preparedness that could help ride it out. *Sea anchors, harnesses, topside liferafts that would deploy if the boat sank, personal EPIRB's, etc. *Could be that preparedness would lessen the urge to abandon. Just hate the thought of abandoning a boat and putting the coasties at risk when it's not a vital need. --Vic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The primary plan should be avoiding that type of situation in the first place. I never leave the dock without first listening to the weather forecast on the VHF. It takes about 3-4 minutes to listen to the latest prerecorded update, which is a perfect amount of time to warm up the engine. Also, every boat should have a barometer, placed where it will be seen frequently. I have a clock and barometer on the aft bulkhead of the main cabin, with the barometer mounted above the companionway leading aft. I see it all the time, and consciously look at it 2-3 times a day. If the forecast is favorable but the barometer suddenly starts to plummet, I believe the barometer and not the forecast. A Mac 26 would not do well in hurricane force winds, nor would the majority of small sailboats. There are very good reasons why most sensible boaters won't venture out in a near gale, let alone the winds described in the news item. |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On 8 May 2007 08:08:18 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote: Also, every boat should have a barometer, placed where it will be seen frequently. I have a clock and barometer on the aft bulkhead of the main cabin, with the barometer mounted above the companionway leading aft. I see it all the time, and consciously look at it 2-3 times a day. If the forecast is favorable but the barometer suddenly starts to plummet, I believe the barometer and not the forecast. Thanks for that barometer tip. I added it to my "needed gear" list. --Vic |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On Tue, 8 May 2007 08:05:32 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote: Yes, I'm sure they are for some people. Best of luck with your Mac. Haven't yet decided to get a Mac, but thanks for your kind wishes. --Vic |
What did these sailors do wrong?
They joined the Navy.
|
What did these sailors do wrong?
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... On May 8, 5:44 am, Larry wrote: Vic Smith wrote : Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today. A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us. They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This statement from the webpage says it all: "a couple in their 70's and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200 miles out to sea." IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!! As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then, we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for. NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE SEAMEN! Larry -- This spammer called my cellphone: First American Payment 10101 E Arapaho Rd Richardson, TX 75081 972-301-3766 They were nasty when I politely said I wasn't interested....(c; There's no absolute age when you no longer belong on the water. One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple of years younger. Two other friends of mine are enroute to Alaska right this minute aboard their 48-foot DeFever. He's 81 and runs the boat, she's 62 or 63. They are running a blog called Big Brivet's Big Adventure ("Big Brivet" is the name of their boat). On the other hand, my father is in his late 70's. He would have no business aboard a boat, even as a passenger. He's got a leg and hip that was messed up pretty badly in an auto accident 30-40 years ago and he thought he would just "tough it out" rather than get it fixed. He limped for a long time, but now he can't get around without a walker. My father in law was still sailing when in his late 70's. Had downsized to a 30' Islander from a Bermuda 32. Only thing that stopped him sailing was death by cancer. |
What did these sailors do wrong?
Larry wrote:
NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE SEAMEN! almost no one. this guy might cut it http://www.runnersweb.com/running/rw...40927_TWM.html |
What did these sailors do wrong?
They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This
statement from the webpage says it all: "a couple in their 70's and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200 miles out to sea." IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!! Wait something is missing from the story. The first paragraph says 6 people were peulled from the boat. They only said that two were in thier 70's and one was over 40. Maybe they did have some young people on board. Maybe the other 3 were were regular sailors. The story doesn't say anything about who owned the boat or that they wer rich. maybe they went out for a charter and were too stupid to realize it wasn't a good idea and the crew figured they would tough it out. |
What did these sailors do wrong?
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et: Well, that's the Nanny State solution, sure. The Free Citizen solution would be more along the lines of, "Go and do what you want. But if you get into a world of hurt and want to be rescued, you will receive a bill for our services." Nah, can't have that. Too much freedom. That would be fine BUT your unlicensed stupids' actions would STILL endanger everyone else....like it does now...on any waterway. It's not about the rescue. It's about a certain level of expertise to operate the equipment....EXACTLY like every other moving form of transportation you use. Larry -- |
What did these sailors do wrong?
Chuck Gould wrote in
ups.com: One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple of years younger. What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60 years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going out of the harbor, out of sight of land. I don't give a damn how many years him and his wife got away with it. An 80+ year old man CANNOT do the physical work of a much younger man (or woman), required to handle such emergencies in such conditions. Hell, the 20-somethings are overwhelmed by a lot of it. Doesn't wash, no matter how many years they got away with it. Larry -- |
What did these sailors do wrong?
"Larry" wrote in message ... Chuck Gould wrote in ups.com: One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple of years younger. What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60 years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going out of the harbor, out of sight of land. I don't give a damn how many years him and his wife got away with it. An 80+ year old man CANNOT do the physical work of a much younger man (or woman), required to handle such emergencies in such conditions. Hell, the 20-somethings are overwhelmed by a lot of it. Doesn't wash, no matter how many years they got away with it. Larry -- Just because I am over 70, you want to take my boat away? I will admit that the reason I bought my little ketch 11 years ago was because being a split rig makes it a lot easier to handle the sails. I guess it is time for me to join the stink potters and but a trawler. Leanne |
What did these sailors do wrong?
"Larry" wrote in message ... "KLC Lewis" wrote in et: Well, that's the Nanny State solution, sure. The Free Citizen solution would be more along the lines of, "Go and do what you want. But if you get into a world of hurt and want to be rescued, you will receive a bill for our services." Nah, can't have that. Too much freedom. That would be fine BUT your unlicensed stupids' actions would STILL endanger everyone else....like it does now...on any waterway. It's not about the rescue. It's about a certain level of expertise to operate the equipment....EXACTLY like every other moving form of transportation you use. Larry -- Ya, licensing sure does make the roadways safe. For the record, not all "moving forms of transportation" require licensing. Skateboards, rollerskates, bicycles (some cities excepted), ultralight aircraft, hang-gliders...none require licensing. And if you want to get into Constitutionality, all American Citizens have the inalienable natural right to use the public roadways and to transport themselves and their property upon those roadways. That right cannot be converted into a privilege. Only COMMERCIAL use of the roadways can be licensed -- just as with the waterways. Everyone has the right to use the waterways to transport themselves and their property, as long as it is not for commercial purposes. Don't believe me? Look up the Supreme Court decisions on the subject. |
What did these sailors do wrong?
"Larry" wrote in message ... Chuck Gould wrote in ups.com: One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple of years younger. What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60 years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going out of the harbor, out of sight of land. I don't give a damn how many years him and his wife got away with it. An 80+ year old man CANNOT do the physical work of a much younger man (or woman), required to handle such emergencies in such conditions. Hell, the 20-somethings are overwhelmed by a lot of it. Doesn't wash, no matter how many years they got away with it. Larry -- What would you do, Larry -- put ankle bracelets on everyone over 70 so their whereabouts can be tracked? Make them call in and report their position every hour on the hour? My God, this is so antithetical to America that I can't believe you're posting it. |
What did these sailors do wrong?
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message et... "Larry" wrote in message ... "KLC Lewis" wrote in et: Well, that's the Nanny State solution, sure. The Free Citizen solution would be more along the lines of, "Go and do what you want. But if you get into a world of hurt and want to be rescued, you will receive a bill for our services." Nah, can't have that. Too much freedom. That would be fine BUT your unlicensed stupids' actions would STILL endanger everyone else....like it does now...on any waterway. It's not about the rescue. It's about a certain level of expertise to operate the equipment....EXACTLY like every other moving form of transportation you use. Larry -- Ya, licensing sure does make the roadways safe. For the record, not all "moving forms of transportation" require licensing. Skateboards, rollerskates, bicycles (some cities excepted), ultralight aircraft, hang-gliders...none require licensing. And if you want to get into Constitutionality, all American Citizens have the inalienable natural right to use the public roadways and to transport themselves and their property upon those roadways. That right cannot be converted into a privilege. Only COMMERCIAL use of the roadways can be licensed -- just as with the waterways. Everyone has the right to use the waterways to transport themselves and their property, as long as it is not for commercial purposes. Don't believe me? Look up the Supreme Court decisions on the subject. Oh, and also for the record, Skip and Lydia are now officially licensed USCG certified Captains. Nothing against them, per se -- I completely support their right to go out and sail themselves to death if that is what they CHOOSE to do. But what does this say about the licensing process, given your commentary on their recent mishaps? |
What did these sailors do wrong?
Larry wrote:
NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60 years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going out of the harbor, out of sight of land. \ Hmmm. It would seem that I've only got 6 1/2 years left before I have to either hang it up or hire crew. I'm sure glad you're not emperor of the world. - Dan Best |
What did these sailors do wrong?
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
... On Tue, 8 May 2007 08:05:32 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: Yes, I'm sure they are for some people. Best of luck with your Mac. Haven't yet decided to get a Mac, but thanks for your kind wishes. --Vic Ah, well, think long and hard about it. There are better boats for less money. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On May 8, 11:07�am, Larry wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote roups.com: One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple of years *younger. What a bunch of nonsense. *NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60 years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going out of the harbor, out of sight of land. *I don't give a damn how many years him and his wife got away with it. *An 80+ year old man CANNOT do the physical work of a much younger man (or woman), required to handle such emergencies in such conditions. *Hell, the 20-somethings are overwhelmed by a lot of it. Doesn't wash, no matter how many years they got away with it. Larry -- Under you standard, almost nobody old enough to be retired would be allowed to go boating without a babysitter? |
What did these sailors do wrong?
....
What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60 years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going out of the harbor, out of sight of land. ... Larry Larry, I'm not sure if you really believe this or are just trying to stir up the conversation. In either case, it is complete nonsense. I've met several 70 year olds who have are in great mental and physical condition and who routinely sail their boats out of New Zealand or Australia to the Pacific islands. Evidence suggests that they have a handle on what it takes. Ability is ability. You either have it or you don't. There may be a statistical correspondence with age and ability, but there is no reason to believe that any particular person will conform to it. Just for instance, I met a gentleman in New Caledonia in his early 70's who was free diving to 60 feet with fantastic bottom time. We met again on Norfolk Island and raced each other on a hike... I think it was a tie, but he might argue. He can still do hand stands. He sails his boat from Opua, New Zealand to New Cal every year and is totally competent. -- Tom. |
What did these sailors do wrong?
Sir Robin Knox-Johnston - just finished the Velux ROUND THE WOLD SOLO
Born 17th March 1939, in Putney, London. The eldest of 4 brothers. School at Berkhamsted in Hertfordshire, the same school as Bill Tilman and Graham Greene. A term mate of Michael Meacher MP. Main interests long running, swimming and boxing. Not very good at team sports, indeed, chose tennis as opposed to cricket, but usually slipped away to Grandparents house to work on a 1927 Austin 7 car instead of either. Went to sea in the Merchant Navy in 1957 as a Deck officer. In 1962 married childhood sweetheart, Suzanne, who passed away in November 2003 as a result of ovarian cancer. One daughter, Sara, born in Bombay 1963, and now 5 grandchildren. Interests:- Sailing, Exploring by boat, Maritime History, the marine environment, youth development, shooting. In 1992 RKJ was invited to become President of the Sail Training Association, a youth development organisation which operated two topsail schooners “Sir Winston Churchill” and “Malcolm Miller” and also organised the annual Tall Ships races. Before he retired in 2001 £11 million had been raised to replace these two vessels with two larger brigs “Prince William” and “Stavros Niarchos” respectively left and right below. Also, there is a nice steel sailboat for sail in Nain, Labrador. A fellow just finished doing the North East passage last fall. Made him Nova Scotia sailer of the year. Then he got wacked by a 42 year old driver as he was riding his bike. BTW - said sailor was 72. Now slightly off topic, not that old, but with a different kind of handicap. Howard Blackburn was born in Nova Scotia in 1859. At the age of 18, he moved south to Massachusetts, seeking work as a fisherman, and became part of the Gloucester, Massachusetts fishing community. Blackburn first rose to fame in 1883. While he was fishing on the schooner Grace L. Fears, a sudden winter storm caught him and a crewmate unprepared while they were in their dory, leaving them separated from the schooner. Blackburn began to row for shore, despite the loss of his mittens; he knew his hands would freeze, so he kept them in the hooked position that would allow him to row. After five days with virtually no food, water, or sleep, he made it to shore in Newfoundland; but his companion had died during the journey. Blackburn's hands were treated for frostbite, but could not be saved; he lost all his fingers, and both thumbs to the first joint. Blackburn returned to Gloucester a hero, and with the help of the town, managed to establish a successful saloon. Not content with this, he organised an expedition to the Klondike to join the gold rush; rather than go overland, he and his group sailed there, via Cape Horn. After the quest for gold failed, Blackburn turned his attention to a new challenge — to sail single-handed across the Atlantic Ocean. This had been done before, by Alfred "Centennial" Johnson in 1876, and Joshua Slocum had completed a single-handed circumnavigation in 1898; but for a man with no fingers to undertake such a voyage would be quite an accomplishment. He sailed from Gloucester in 1899, in the sloop Great Western, and reached England after 62 days at sea. Returning to Gloucester, Blackburn continued to prosper as a businessman; but he still hankered for adventure. In 1901, he sailed to Portugal in the twenty-five-foot sloop Great Republic, making the trip in 39 days. In 1903 he again set out alone, this time in the sailing dory America, but was defeated by bad weather. Blackburn died in 1932; his funeral was attended by many of the people of Gloucester. He was buried in the Fishermen’s Rest section of Beechgrove Cemetery. Live and learn, or live an snooze, you choose. Larry wrote: Vic Smith wrote in : Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today. A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us. They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This statement from the webpage says it all: "a couple in their 70’s and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200 miles out to sea." IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!! As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then, we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for. NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE SEAMEN! Larry |
What did these sailors do wrong?
They are 200 miles out at sea. Duh ??? Isn't that in international waters?
Maybe they aren't American .. and maybe they don't want no stinkin license. Nanny Nanny Nanny ..... Can't people kill themselves anymore without some government asshole telling them to get a license? Talk about total bull****.. take the license and stick it up your ass. ================================================== === "Larry" wrote in message ... "KLC Lewis" wrote in et: Well, that's the Nanny State solution, sure. The Free Citizen solution would be more along the lines of, "Go and do what you want. But if you get into a world of hurt and want to be rescued, you will receive a bill for our services." Nah, can't have that. Too much freedom. That would be fine BUT your unlicensed stupids' actions would STILL endanger everyone else....like it does now...on any waterway. It's not about the rescue. It's about a certain level of expertise to operate the equipment....EXACTLY like every other moving form of transportation you use. Larry -- |
What did these sailors do wrong?
Larry wrote:
Vic Smith wrote in : Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today. A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us. They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This statement from the webpage says it all: "a couple in their 70’s and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200 miles out to sea." IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!! As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then, we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for. NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE SEAMEN! Larry I am not yet 70, but I am closer to 70 that 50. I would much prefer to boat in areas where most of the people handling the boats were in their 70's experienced and attentive to the job at hand, rather than go boating in areas where you get a hangover from the guy in the next boat when you get down wind of him. I don't believe age has any thing to do with operation of a boat. Experience and common sense over rule any other factor. -- Keith Nuttle 3110 Marquette Court Indianapolis, IN 46268 317-802-0699 |
What did these sailors do wrong?
Licensing? Nonsense. So they give you a test and you know enought
right answers to pass. Does that make you a safe boater? All it proves is that you can study and pass a test. Do you know how to handle your boat? Do you exercise good judgement? Sailing is voluntary, nobody makes you participate. Sailing involves a degree of danger. The government cannot make sailing safe. The government cannot make you a safe sailor. As a matter of fact, even you cannot eliminate all the danger, you cannot make sailing safe, you can only make it less dangerous. As for denying sailing opportunities to people of certain ages, only they can know if they are capable of the challenge. Obviously, when we are given the freedom of choice, some people will, unfortunately, make the wrong choices. Peter s/v Now or Never! |
What did these sailors do wrong?
"Leanne" wrote in :
Just because I am over 70, you want to take my boat away? I will admit that the reason I bought my little ketch 11 years ago was because being a split rig makes it a lot easier to handle the sails. I guess it is time for me to join the stink potters and but a trawler. Leanne Not at all! I never said that! I said that IF you want to go offshore, expecting young rescuers to risk their lives to save you, you MUST be certified to be in a certain physical condition...or...failing that...MUST have certifiable seamen aboard able to handle the boat during your incapacitation or in overwhelming emergencies. Noone's gonna take your boat toy away from you. But, let's be reasonable just for a change, this hermit-on-a-boat crap you see on every dock, the old man with the heart condition sailing with his clueless wife who is, at best, an "informed passenger" and servant, "and the world can kiss my ass" attitude IS endangering lives, besides their own. Those boys in the helo deserve more respect and to be treated better than just cannon fodder for some old fool hell bent on killing his family....at all costs. There DOES come a time, at some point, where EVERY ONE OF YOU needs to be told NO, if you're so self-centered you cannot see the danger you're putting yourself, and these rescuers/other boaters/etc. in. This boat stupidity of just having money, being totally blind and driving the Hatteras 58 away from the dock is JUST STUPID! Larry -- This spammer called my cellphone: First American Payment 10101 E Arapaho Rd Richardson, TX 75081 972-301-3766 They were nasty when I politely said I wasn't interested....(c; |
What did these sailors do wrong?
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What did these sailors do wrong?
Chuck Gould wrote in
ups.com: Under you standard, almost nobody old enough to be retired would be allowed to go boating without a babysitter? I sail offshore on an Amel 41 ketch. Cap'n Geoffrey is around 70. It's his boat. I must admit we HAVE sailed offshore of Florida, just the two of us, between Ft Lauderdale and Ponce Inlet, S of Daytona Beach. Weather was perfect or we wouldn't have gone. Neither one of us are "disabled" and either one of us can sail her safely for a day, maybe two. But, neither one of us will go offshore over 2 in our condition, which isn't really that bad, but we DO GET OVERTIRED IN 2 DAYS....too tired for safe sailing in a squall condition, which happens often, here. Our "crew" is SIX sailors, sometimes EIGHT, for passages Charleston to FL, for example. Everyone gets SLEEP, noone gets DEAD. All hands are available, including ours, in bad situations. The other four are late 20's to mid 40's, experienced sailors, physically fit. And we STILL have been beaten up to exhaustion a few times offshore of Georgia. I cannot imagine how an 80-year-old goat and his 78-year-old wife can be called "fit" to sail a 38' boat under those circumstances...I just can't! Larry -- |
What did these sailors do wrong?
"Larry" wrote in message ... "KLC Lewis" wrote in news:wMadnSkQm- : My God, this is so antithetical to America that I can't believe you're posting it. You don't FLY without a pilot's license, medical exam, certification....before you fly over my house and endanger the public. What's the difference in a boat on the ICW or harbor or shipping lane? Why is that different than a Cessna 150? Any fool can fly a Cessna 150! Hell, it flies itself unless you force it not to! Larry -- Of course you can fly without a pilot's license: Go Ultralight. Don't even need a driver's license. Nobody aboard but yourself, you can only kill yourself -- unless, of course, you happen to crash into a crowd of "innocent bystanders" at Oshkosh. What's the difference? Eliminate the "if you get into trouble we'll come try to save you for free, possibly dying in the process" element from the Government, and the issue solves itself, and people remain FREE. YOU would put them into some ridiculous playpen with the Government Nanny watching over them. A pox upon them and anyone who proposes such nonsense. You can have the illusion of safety or you can be free. Choose. |
What did these sailors do wrong?
" wrote in
ups.com: Larry, I'm not sure if you really believe this or are just trying to stir up the conversation. In either case, it is complete nonsense. I've met several 70 year olds who have are in great mental and physical condition and who routinely sail their boats out of New Zealand or Australia to the Pacific islands. Evidence suggests that they have a handle on what it takes. Ability is ability. You either have it or you don't. Tom, I'm not trying to stir up trouble or a flamewar. I'm POSITIVE sailors in your area of the world are MUCH more fit than the rich, potbellied Americans walking down our docks in Charleston, SC. Those men have been to sea for years, are hardened by hard work. OUR sailors are bankers, lawyers, doctors, real estate tycoons who's hardest work is standing in one place doing what they do in their tassled loafers under an expensive Italian suit...in an air conditioned room...and working out at the fitness center riding a bike and lifting small weights. Lifting their glass at the yacht club or reaching in for their credit card raises their heart rates. They are playing a role game...."Captain". In America, it takes nothing but MONEY, really. Some even mow their own lawns!....on riding lawn mowers, of course! Those are the individuals you find offshore in trouble, here. Did anyone see what this nice old guy does for a living, besides the SS checks and stock options, in this latest rescue? Does he fit my dock description? Larry -- This spammer called my cellphone: First American Payment 10101 E Arapaho Rd Richardson, TX 75081 972-301-3766 They were nasty when I politely said I wasn't interested....(c; |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On Wed, 09 May 2007 00:00:23 +0000, Larry wrote:
This boat stupidity of just having money, being totally blind and driving the Hatteras 58 away from the dock is JUST STUPID! It won't happen too many times. Insurance companies are the real gate keepers. |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On Wed, 09 May 2007 00:02:39 +0000, Larry wrote:
You don't FLY without a pilot's license, medical exam, certification....before you fly over my house and endanger the public. What's the difference in a boat on the ICW or harbor or shipping lane? The difference is that boats don't fall from the sky. Next question please? |
What did these sailors do wrong?
On Tue, 08 May 2007 20:22:25 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Wed, 09 May 2007 00:02:39 +0000, Larry wrote: You don't FLY without a pilot's license, medical exam, certification....before you fly over my house and endanger the public. What's the difference in a boat on the ICW or harbor or shipping lane? The difference is that boats don't fall from the sky. They don't? Damn - next thing you are going to tell me is that the Easter Bunny is dead. Or Harry is really a GOP organizer. Next question please? Is Harry a GOP organizer? |
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