....
What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60
years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going
out of the harbor, out of sight of land. ...
Larry


Larry, I'm not sure if you really believe this or are just trying to
stir up the conversation. In either case, it is complete nonsense.
I've met several 70 year olds who have are in great mental and
physical condition and who routinely sail their boats out of New
Zealand or Australia to the Pacific islands. Evidence suggests that
they have a handle on what it takes. Ability is ability. You either
have it or you don't. There may be a statistical correspondence with
age and ability, but there is no reason to believe that any particular
person will conform to it. Just for instance, I met a gentleman in
New Caledonia in his early 70's who was free diving to 60 feet with
fantastic bottom time. We met again on Norfolk Island and raced each
other on a hike... I think it was a tie, but he might argue. He can
still do hand stands. He sails his boat from Opua, New Zealand to New
Cal every year and is totally competent.

-- Tom.

" wrote in
ups.com:

Larry, I'm not sure if you really believe this or are just trying to
stir up the conversation. In either case, it is complete nonsense.
I've met several 70 year olds who have are in great mental and
physical condition and who routinely sail their boats out of New
Zealand or Australia to the Pacific islands. Evidence suggests that
they have a handle on what it takes. Ability is ability. You either
have it or you don't.

Tom, I'm not trying to stir up trouble or a flamewar. I'm POSITIVE
sailors in your area of the world are MUCH more fit than the rich,
potbellied Americans walking down our docks in Charleston, SC. Those men
have been to sea for years, are hardened by hard work. OUR sailors are
bankers, lawyers, doctors, real estate tycoons who's hardest work is
standing in one place doing what they do in their tassled loafers under
an expensive Italian suit...in an air conditioned room...and working out
at the fitness center riding a bike and lifting small weights. Lifting
their glass at the yacht club or reaching in for their credit card raises
their heart rates.

They are playing a role game...."Captain". In America, it takes nothing
but MONEY, really. Some even mow their own lawns!....on riding lawn
mowers, of course! Those are the individuals you find offshore in
trouble, here.

Did anyone see what this nice old guy does for a living, besides the SS
checks and stock options, in this latest rescue? Does he fit my dock
description?



Larry
--
This spammer called my cellphone:
First American Payment
10101 E Arapaho Rd
Richardson, TX 75081
972-301-3766
They were nasty when I politely said I wasn't interested....(c;

wrote:
...
What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60
years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going
out of the harbor, out of sight of land. ...
Larry


Larry, I'm not sure if you really believe this or are just trying to
stir up the conversation. In either case, it is complete nonsense.
I've met several 70 year olds who have are in great mental and
physical condition and who routinely sail their boats out of New
Zealand or Australia to the Pacific islands. Evidence suggests that
they have a handle on what it takes. Ability is ability. You either
have it or you don't. There may be a statistical correspondence with
age and ability, but there is no reason to believe that any particular
person will conform to it. Just for instance, I met a gentleman in
New Caledonia in his early 70's who was free diving to 60 feet with
fantastic bottom time. We met again on Norfolk Island and raced each
other on a hike... I think it was a tie, but he might argue. He can
still do hand stands. He sails his boat from Opua, New Zealand to New
Cal every year and is totally competent.

-- Tom.


I don't recall just now, but how old was Sir Francis Chichester when he
circled the world in Gypsy Moth?

--Alan Gomes

On May 8, 1:07 pm, Larry wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote roups.com:

One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising
his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him
when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town
dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the
beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty
operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple
of years younger.

What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60
years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going
out of the harbor, out of sight of land. I don't give a damn how many
years him and his wife got away with it. An 80+ year old man CANNOT do
the physical work of a much younger man (or woman), required to handle
such emergencies in such conditions. Hell, the 20-somethings are
overwhelmed by a lot of it.

Doesn't wash, no matter how many years they got away with it.

Larry
--

Larry,

What kind of ignorant hogwash is this? I have never met a sailor over
60 whom I would not trust to be a good and reliable skipper. It's
true that as we age our physical abilities diminish. However, the
dangers encountered in sailing are more related to abilities of
judgement rather than abilities of muscle. The fact is, younger
sailors are just as liable to make the same errors in judgement as
older sailors. The problem encountered by the sailors in question
had nothing to do with their age and everything to do with their
judgement. And, I'd be willing to bet they could pass a "licensing
test". After all, we have licensing requirements for automobiles and
drivers of all ages still make stupid errors of judgement.

Peter
s/v Now or Never!

Larry wrote:

NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE
SEAMEN!

almost no one. this guy might cut it

http://www.runnersweb.com/running/rw...40927_TWM.html

They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This
statement from the webpage says it all:

"a couple in their 70's and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200
miles out to sea."

IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO
YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!!

Wait something is missing from the story. The first paragraph says 6
people were peulled from the boat. They only said that two were in
thier 70's and one was over 40. Maybe they did have some young people
on board. Maybe the other 3 were were regular sailors. The story
doesn't say anything about who owned the boat or that they wer rich.
maybe they went out for a charter and were too stupid to realize it
wasn't a good idea and the crew figured they would tough it out.

Sir Robin Knox-Johnston - just finished the Velux ROUND THE WOLD SOLO
Born 17th March 1939, in Putney, London. The eldest of 4 brothers.
School at Berkhamsted in Hertfordshire, the same school as Bill Tilman
and Graham Greene.
A term mate of Michael Meacher MP. Main interests long running, swimming
and boxing. Not very good at team sports, indeed, chose tennis as
opposed to cricket, but usually slipped away to
Grandparents house to work on a 1927 Austin 7 car instead of either.
Went to sea in the Merchant Navy in 1957 as a Deck officer. In 1962
married childhood sweetheart, Suzanne, who passed
away in November 2003 as a result of ovarian cancer. One daughter, Sara,
born in Bombay 1963, and now 5 grandchildren. Interests:- Sailing,
Exploring by boat, Maritime History, the marine environment,
youth development, shooting.

In 1992 RKJ was invited to become President of the Sail Training
Association, a youth development organisation which operated two topsail
schooners “Sir Winston Churchill” and “Malcolm Miller”
and also organised the annual Tall Ships races. Before he retired in
2001 £11 million had been raised to replace these two vessels with two
larger brigs “Prince William” and “Stavros Niarchos”
respectively left and right below.

Also, there is a nice steel sailboat for sail in Nain, Labrador. A
fellow just finished doing the North East passage last fall. Made him
Nova Scotia sailer of the year.

Then he got wacked by a 42 year old driver as he was riding his bike.

BTW - said sailor was 72.

Now slightly off topic, not that old, but with a different kind of handicap.

Howard Blackburn was born in Nova Scotia in 1859. At the age of 18, he
moved south to Massachusetts, seeking work as a fisherman, and became
part of the Gloucester, Massachusetts fishing community.
Blackburn first rose to fame in 1883. While he was fishing on the
schooner Grace L. Fears, a sudden winter storm caught him and a crewmate
unprepared while they were in their dory, leaving them
separated from the schooner. Blackburn began to row for shore, despite
the loss of his mittens; he knew his hands would freeze, so he kept them
in the hooked position that would allow him to row.

After five days with virtually no food, water, or sleep, he made it to
shore in Newfoundland; but his companion had died during the journey.
Blackburn's hands were treated for frostbite, but could
not be saved; he lost all his fingers, and both thumbs to the first joint.

Blackburn returned to Gloucester a hero, and with the help of the town,
managed to establish a successful saloon. Not content with this, he
organised an expedition to the Klondike to join the gold
rush; rather than go overland, he and his group sailed there, via Cape Horn.

After the quest for gold failed, Blackburn turned his attention to a new
challenge — to sail single-handed across the Atlantic Ocean. This had
been done before, by Alfred "Centennial" Johnson
in 1876, and Joshua Slocum had completed a single-handed
circumnavigation in 1898; but for a man with no fingers to undertake
such a voyage would be quite an accomplishment.

He sailed from Gloucester in 1899, in the sloop Great Western, and
reached England after 62 days at sea.

Returning to Gloucester, Blackburn continued to prosper as a
businessman; but he still hankered for adventure. In 1901, he sailed to
Portugal in the twenty-five-foot sloop Great Republic,
making the trip in 39 days. In 1903 he again set out alone, this time in
the sailing dory America, but was defeated by bad weather.

Blackburn died in 1932; his funeral was attended by many of the people
of Gloucester. He was buried in the Fishermen’s Rest section of
Beechgrove Cemetery.

Live and learn, or live an snooze, you choose.




Larry wrote:
Vic Smith wrote in
:

Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted?


It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in
Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds
were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today.

A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East
Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a
local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab
angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky
is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us.

They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This
statement from the webpage says it all:

"a couple in their 70’s and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200
miles out to sea."

IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO
YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!!

As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say
LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the
course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no
matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then,
we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT
YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and
boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are
too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that
worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for.

NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE
SEAMEN!


Larry

Larry wrote:
Vic Smith wrote in
:


Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted?



It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in
Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds
were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today.

A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East
Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a
local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab
angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky
is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us.

They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This
statement from the webpage says it all:

"a couple in their 70’s and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200
miles out to sea."

IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO
YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!!

As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say
LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the
course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no
matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then,
we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT
YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and
boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are
too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that
worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for.

NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE
SEAMEN!


Larry
I am not yet 70, but I am closer to 70 that 50. I would much prefer to
boat in areas where most of the people handling the boats were in their
70's experienced and attentive to the job at hand, rather than go
boating in areas where you get a hangover from the guy in the next boat
when you get down wind of him.

I don't believe age has any thing to do with operation of a boat.
Experience and common sense over rule any other factor.



--
Keith Nuttle
3110 Marquette Court
Indianapolis, IN 46268
317-802-0699

Larry wrote:



IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO
YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!!

As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say
LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the
course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no
matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then,
we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT
YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and
boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are
too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that
worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for.

NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE
SEAMEN!


Larry

Hi Larry,

I know this is kind of a late reply, but I had to
let myself cool down for a few days to think about
what I really wanted to say here.

When I was 34 I was playing competitive
racquetball at the YMCA twice a week with a bunch
of guys I worked with. To give you an idea of the
level of play, our group included the 1st _and_
2nd place winners of the Austin TX open
racquetball tournament, and a couple of other
players who placed in the top ten. On any given
day, there were five or six of us who could give
the top two a run for their money.

There was one fellow who was 70 years old that
year who use to come and play with us regularly,
and he was quite competitive. He beat me quite a
few times, and he also would beat the top two
players sometimes. My point is that age is a poor
indicator of strength or fitness. I've seen
plenty of 18 year olds that would have had a heart
attack if they'd try to keep up with this guy, and
he would have beat them at arm wrestling also.

BTW, although that big Amel 54' may take a lot of
muscle to handle the sheets, there are plenty of
boats that do not. Hell, there are even boats
with (gasp) power winches, and power capstans.

Regarding the cost of rescues, and the risk to
rescue crews: Those resources are fixed cost, and
we taxpayers pay for them whether they are used or
not. If there are no real rescues, the crews have
to fly practice ones to stay proficient. I have
an aquaintance who is a USCG rescue swimmer, and
they _love_ to go out on real rescues. It breaks
up the boredom, and makes them feel like they are
doing something worthwhile.

What they do looks dangerous, but they are trained
and equipped for it. The USCG doesn't commit to a
rescue if they believe that the conditions are
dangerous for their crews and equipment. Of
course, what looks dangerous to us is routine for
them.

With your avowed distrust of the US government,
why would you want to give them more power to run
our lives than they've already got?

I say government should stay out of peoples lives
unless there is a compelling reason not to. I'm
really opposed to the idea that government should
become our mommies and save us from ourselves.

rant mode off

Sorry... I feel much better now ;-)

Don W.

Don W wrote in news:YZK0i.1163
:

I say government should stay out of peoples lives
unless there is a compelling reason not to. I'm
really opposed to the idea that government should
become our mommies and save us from ourselves.



Everyone has presented exceptional examples of just wonderful 70-year-
old, physically fit sailors they know, some famous, some not. This is
great. If I were advocating licensing of airplane pilots, and there were
no licensing or testing or physical exams of airplane pilots, everyone
would be pointing out Chuck Yeagar and a host of airplane pilot heros,
for the same reasons....they don't need to be examined, obviously.

Those are NOT the people walking the docks to play captain where I have
been, or whom I have met. THESE are the people who need to be told when
enough is enough, just like airplane pilots are told, now. These people
walking the docks are sure they can handle any situation. Just ask them
or point out to them that they are walking a little slower than they were
10 years ago, or have trouble getting aboard, or are a little out of
breath from the walk from the parking lot, and you'll be told how
wonderful shape they are in. In their minds, just like everyone on this
newsgroup who have gotten all excited and mad at me, they are 27 and
strong as an ox....just with white hair...well, some white hair.

But, with increasing frequency lately, we find them offshore, in heavy
weather and in trouble...beaten and exhausted to the point a rescue
swimmer must be deployed to get them into the helo harness...endangering
the lives of the Coasties and everyone else who comes near the abandoned
vessel left behind.

Their inflated egos have gotten them in trouble and endangered others.
I'm not concerned with themselves. It's the "others" that continues to
bother me.

At what point does government impose the same requirements on boaters it
requires, rightfully so, of all other modes of transportation to protect
the "others", passengers, other boaters, commercial traffic and those
boys in the helos?

Larry
--
I think we should do away with all testing and licensing of airline
pilots. Anyone who can fly a Hatteras 60 ought to be able to get a job
as a Delta 777 captain without taking a test or physical, right?!