"Larry" wrote in message
...
Chuck Gould wrote in
ups.com:

One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising
his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him
when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town
dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the
beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty
operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple
of years younger.


What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60
years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going
out of the harbor, out of sight of land. I don't give a damn how many
years him and his wife got away with it. An 80+ year old man CANNOT do
the physical work of a much younger man (or woman), required to handle
such emergencies in such conditions. Hell, the 20-somethings are
overwhelmed by a lot of it.

Doesn't wash, no matter how many years they got away with it.

Larry
--

Just because I am over 70, you want to take my boat away? I will admit that
the reason I bought my little ketch 11 years ago was because being a split
rig makes it a lot easier to handle the sails. I guess it is time for me to
join the stink potters and but a trawler.


Leanne

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

Well, that's the Nanny State solution, sure. The Free Citizen solution
would be more along the lines of, "Go and do what you want. But if you
get into a world of hurt and want to be rescued, you will receive a
bill for our services."

Nah, can't have that. Too much freedom.



That would be fine BUT your unlicensed stupids' actions would STILL
endanger everyone else....like it does now...on any waterway.

It's not about the rescue. It's about a certain level of expertise to
operate the equipment....EXACTLY like every other moving form of
transportation you use.

Larry
--

Ya, licensing sure does make the roadways safe.

For the record, not all "moving forms of transportation" require licensing.
Skateboards, rollerskates, bicycles (some cities excepted), ultralight
aircraft, hang-gliders...none require licensing. And if you want to get into
Constitutionality, all American Citizens have the inalienable natural right
to use the public roadways and to transport themselves and their property
upon those roadways. That right cannot be converted into a privilege. Only
COMMERCIAL use of the roadways can be licensed -- just as with the
waterways. Everyone has the right to use the waterways to transport
themselves and their property, as long as it is not for commercial purposes.

Don't believe me? Look up the Supreme Court decisions on the subject.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Chuck Gould wrote in
ups.com:

One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising
his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him
when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town
dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the
beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty
operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple
of years younger.


What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60
years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going
out of the harbor, out of sight of land. I don't give a damn how many
years him and his wife got away with it. An 80+ year old man CANNOT do
the physical work of a much younger man (or woman), required to handle
such emergencies in such conditions. Hell, the 20-somethings are
overwhelmed by a lot of it.

Doesn't wash, no matter how many years they got away with it.

Larry
--

What would you do, Larry -- put ankle bracelets on everyone over 70 so their
whereabouts can be tracked? Make them call in and report their position
every hour on the hour? My God, this is so antithetical to America that I
can't believe you're posting it.

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

Well, that's the Nanny State solution, sure. The Free Citizen solution
would be more along the lines of, "Go and do what you want. But if you
get into a world of hurt and want to be rescued, you will receive a
bill for our services."

Nah, can't have that. Too much freedom.



That would be fine BUT your unlicensed stupids' actions would STILL
endanger everyone else....like it does now...on any waterway.

It's not about the rescue. It's about a certain level of expertise to
operate the equipment....EXACTLY like every other moving form of
transportation you use.

Larry
--

Ya, licensing sure does make the roadways safe.

For the record, not all "moving forms of transportation" require
licensing. Skateboards, rollerskates, bicycles (some cities excepted),
ultralight aircraft, hang-gliders...none require licensing. And if you
want to get into Constitutionality, all American Citizens have the
inalienable natural right to use the public roadways and to transport
themselves and their property upon those roadways. That right cannot be
converted into a privilege. Only COMMERCIAL use of the roadways can be
licensed -- just as with the waterways. Everyone has the right to use the
waterways to transport themselves and their property, as long as it is not
for commercial purposes.

Don't believe me? Look up the Supreme Court decisions on the subject.


Oh, and also for the record, Skip and Lydia are now officially licensed USCG
certified Captains. Nothing against them, per se -- I completely support
their right to go out and sail themselves to death if that is what they
CHOOSE to do. But what does this say about the licensing process, given your
commentary on their recent mishaps?

Larry wrote:
NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60
years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going
out of the harbor, out of sight of land. \

Hmmm. It would seem that I've only got 6 1/2 years left before I have
to either hang it up or hire crew. I'm sure glad you're not emperor of
the world.

- Dan Best

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 May 2007 08:05:32 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:



Yes, I'm sure they are for some people. Best of luck with your Mac.

Haven't yet decided to get a Mac, but thanks for your kind wishes.

--Vic


Ah, well, think long and hard about it. There are better boats for less
money.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On May 8, 11:07�am, Larry wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote roups.com:

One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising
his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him
when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town
dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the
beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty
operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple
of years *younger.

What a bunch of nonsense. *NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60
years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going
out of the harbor, out of sight of land. *I don't give a damn how many
years him and his wife got away with it. *An 80+ year old man CANNOT do
the physical work of a much younger man (or woman), required to handle
such emergencies in such conditions. *Hell, the 20-somethings are
overwhelmed by a lot of it.

Doesn't wash, no matter how many years they got away with it.

Larry
--

Under you standard, almost nobody old enough to be retired would be
allowed to go boating without a babysitter?

....
What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60
years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going
out of the harbor, out of sight of land. ...
Larry


Larry, I'm not sure if you really believe this or are just trying to
stir up the conversation. In either case, it is complete nonsense.
I've met several 70 year olds who have are in great mental and
physical condition and who routinely sail their boats out of New
Zealand or Australia to the Pacific islands. Evidence suggests that
they have a handle on what it takes. Ability is ability. You either
have it or you don't. There may be a statistical correspondence with
age and ability, but there is no reason to believe that any particular
person will conform to it. Just for instance, I met a gentleman in
New Caledonia in his early 70's who was free diving to 60 feet with
fantastic bottom time. We met again on Norfolk Island and raced each
other on a hike... I think it was a tie, but he might argue. He can
still do hand stands. He sails his boat from Opua, New Zealand to New
Cal every year and is totally competent.

-- Tom.

Sir Robin Knox-Johnston - just finished the Velux ROUND THE WOLD SOLO
Born 17th March 1939, in Putney, London. The eldest of 4 brothers.
School at Berkhamsted in Hertfordshire, the same school as Bill Tilman
and Graham Greene.
A term mate of Michael Meacher MP. Main interests long running, swimming
and boxing. Not very good at team sports, indeed, chose tennis as
opposed to cricket, but usually slipped away to
Grandparents house to work on a 1927 Austin 7 car instead of either.
Went to sea in the Merchant Navy in 1957 as a Deck officer. In 1962
married childhood sweetheart, Suzanne, who passed
away in November 2003 as a result of ovarian cancer. One daughter, Sara,
born in Bombay 1963, and now 5 grandchildren. Interests:- Sailing,
Exploring by boat, Maritime History, the marine environment,
youth development, shooting.

In 1992 RKJ was invited to become President of the Sail Training
Association, a youth development organisation which operated two topsail
schooners “Sir Winston Churchill” and “Malcolm Miller”
and also organised the annual Tall Ships races. Before he retired in
2001 £11 million had been raised to replace these two vessels with two
larger brigs “Prince William” and “Stavros Niarchos”
respectively left and right below.

Also, there is a nice steel sailboat for sail in Nain, Labrador. A
fellow just finished doing the North East passage last fall. Made him
Nova Scotia sailer of the year.

Then he got wacked by a 42 year old driver as he was riding his bike.

BTW - said sailor was 72.

Now slightly off topic, not that old, but with a different kind of handicap.

Howard Blackburn was born in Nova Scotia in 1859. At the age of 18, he
moved south to Massachusetts, seeking work as a fisherman, and became
part of the Gloucester, Massachusetts fishing community.
Blackburn first rose to fame in 1883. While he was fishing on the
schooner Grace L. Fears, a sudden winter storm caught him and a crewmate
unprepared while they were in their dory, leaving them
separated from the schooner. Blackburn began to row for shore, despite
the loss of his mittens; he knew his hands would freeze, so he kept them
in the hooked position that would allow him to row.

After five days with virtually no food, water, or sleep, he made it to
shore in Newfoundland; but his companion had died during the journey.
Blackburn's hands were treated for frostbite, but could
not be saved; he lost all his fingers, and both thumbs to the first joint.

Blackburn returned to Gloucester a hero, and with the help of the town,
managed to establish a successful saloon. Not content with this, he
organised an expedition to the Klondike to join the gold
rush; rather than go overland, he and his group sailed there, via Cape Horn.

After the quest for gold failed, Blackburn turned his attention to a new
challenge — to sail single-handed across the Atlantic Ocean. This had
been done before, by Alfred "Centennial" Johnson
in 1876, and Joshua Slocum had completed a single-handed
circumnavigation in 1898; but for a man with no fingers to undertake
such a voyage would be quite an accomplishment.

He sailed from Gloucester in 1899, in the sloop Great Western, and
reached England after 62 days at sea.

Returning to Gloucester, Blackburn continued to prosper as a
businessman; but he still hankered for adventure. In 1901, he sailed to
Portugal in the twenty-five-foot sloop Great Republic,
making the trip in 39 days. In 1903 he again set out alone, this time in
the sailing dory America, but was defeated by bad weather.

Blackburn died in 1932; his funeral was attended by many of the people
of Gloucester. He was buried in the Fishermen’s Rest section of
Beechgrove Cemetery.

Live and learn, or live an snooze, you choose.




Larry wrote:
Vic Smith wrote in
:

Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted?


It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in
Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds
were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today.

A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East
Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a
local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab
angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky
is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us.

They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This
statement from the webpage says it all:

"a couple in their 70’s and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200
miles out to sea."

IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO
YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!!

As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say
LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the
course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no
matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then,
we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT
YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and
boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are
too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that
worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for.

NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE
SEAMEN!


Larry

They are 200 miles out at sea. Duh ??? Isn't that in international waters?

Maybe they aren't American .. and maybe they don't want no stinkin license.

Nanny Nanny Nanny .....

Can't people kill themselves anymore without some government asshole telling
them to get a license?

Talk about total bull****.. take the license and stick it up your ass.


================================================== ===

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

Well, that's the Nanny State solution, sure. The Free Citizen solution
would be more along the lines of, "Go and do what you want. But if you
get into a world of hurt and want to be rescued, you will receive a
bill for our services."

Nah, can't have that. Too much freedom.



That would be fine BUT your unlicensed stupids' actions would STILL
endanger everyone else....like it does now...on any waterway.

It's not about the rescue. It's about a certain level of expertise to
operate the equipment....EXACTLY like every other moving form of
transportation you use.

Larry
--