I've found some Goretex fabric on Ebay and plan to band my drytop
sleeves with it. Does this fabric need a protective inner liner?
Thanks.

Davej wrote:

Does this fabric need a protective inner liner?

That depends. If it's three layer, no. If two layer, yes. The third
layer protects the PTFE liner. If the inside of the GoreTex is grey in
colour and has a tricot layer, it's three layer. Some of the light
GoreTex versions have small spots on the inside for a third layer. If
it's plain white, it's two layer.

You can protect the two layer version with an open athletic mesh.
Whatever you use, make sure it's 100% polyester - nylon would be a
poorer second choice.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:

Davej wrote:
Does this fabric need a protective inner liner?

That depends. If it's three layer, no. If two layer, yes. The third
layer protects the PTFE liner. If the inside of the GoreTex is grey in
colour and has a tricot layer, it's three layer. Some of the light
GoreTex versions have small spots on the inside for a third layer. If
it's plain white, it's two layer.

Apparently Goretex is not the most breathable waterproof fabric.
Here is an interesting, though not totally up-to-date, summary
of US Army research on various waterproof/breathable fabrics:

http://verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/breathability.pdf

Looks like eVENT Laminate is the most breathable, followed by
Schoeller Dryskin (which seems to be a soft-shell pile fabric)
and Entrant GII XT.

Compared to new Goretex XCR, which is better than old Goretex,
all the abovementioned fabrics breathe much better in low humidity
and a bit better in high humidity.

On May 1, 12:26 pm, Bill Tuthill wrote:
Michael Daly wrote:

Davej wrote:
Does this fabric need a protective inner liner?

That depends. If it's three layer, no. If two layer, yes. The third
layer protects the PTFE liner. If the inside of the GoreTex is grey in
colour and has a tricot layer, it's three layer. Some of the light
GoreTex versions have small spots on the inside for a third layer. If
it's plain white, it's two layer.

Apparently Goretex is not the most breathable waterproof fabric.
Here is an interesting, though not totally up-to-date, summary
of US Army research on various waterproof/breathable fabrics:

http://verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/breathability.pdf
[...]

Interesting, but I wonder how many of these fabrics can be purchased
in small quantities?

Davej wrote:

Interesting, but I wonder how many of these fabrics can be purchased
in small quantities?

Not many. Technically, Gore-Tex is not a retail product. Gore will not
sell direct to the retail chain. If you find Gore-Tex at a retail shop,
it is from an end-of-run surplus at a clothing manufacturer. That's why
it's hard to get a wide choice of colours and fabric types.

The big makers of clothing also don't sell the fabric in the retail
chain. You won't find Lowe, Patagonia. TNF etc at the local fabric shop.

The few brands that can be found in retail include Entrant, Schoeller
and Sympatex (though some of those might be end-of-run, too).

The big boys won't trade away their brand advantage and the major fabric
makers won't let their products be badmouthed by people who make
clothing with the fabrics but don't finish them properly. A poorly
sealed garment will leak and it isn't the fault of the fabric. A poorly
made garment won't breathe well either and that's also no the fault of
the fabric. hence the CYA selling practices.

One of the best sources for outdoor gear making is Penny Schwinn. Here's
her page of fabric sources:
http://www.specialtyoutdoors.com/tips/sources.asp

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:

One of the best sources for outdoor gear making is Penny Schwinn. Here's
her page of fabric sources:
http://www.specialtyoutdoors.com/tips/sources.asp

Thanks, good resource! She does not mention how to get eVENT.

Feathered Friends makes down sleeping bags with optional eVENT exterior.
It is the most expensive of three options, nylon taffeta being the chepest
and Nextec Epic in the middle.

http://featheredfriends.com

OSsystems makes drysuits from Sympatex, but perhaps they could be convinced
to make one from eVENT. Their customer service is reputed to be almost
as good as Kokatat's, which I know is excellent.

http://ossystems.com/pricelists/full.html

The Spirit drysuit looks good, as its entry zipper seems to be placed
so as to make a relief zipper unnecessary.

Bill Tuthill wrote:

She does not mention how to get eVENT.

I first heard of eVENT last year and had no luck finding any source for
the fabric. It could be a non-retail product. Some certified repair
places will sell you a bit of such fabrics "out the back door" if you
ask nicely. If they won't sell eVENT in retail, then maybe find a
certified repair outfit that repairs eVENT products.

eVENT might not have been around long enough for end-of-run sales to
show up in the specialized fabric shops.

Web search is useful in the meanwhile.

Mike