On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 22:20:31 +0000, marierdj wrote:


So legal aspect will have to be cleared up accordingly. Otherwise some
good Samaritans could be suit for wrong doing.

Most states have Good Samaritan Laws protecting rescuers, although some
require training before using defibrillators.

http://www.momsteam.com/alpha/featur...reness_center/
good_samaritan_laws.shtml

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 22:20:31 GMT, wrote:

So legal aspect will have to be cleared up accordingly. Otherwise some
good
Samaritans could be suit for wrong doing.

I'm not exactly sure where you live, but states have Good Samaritan
laws. As long as you help in good faith, and the simple fact that you
help is evidence of good faith, you are in the clear. In most states,
any legal filing related to emergency medical treatment has to pass a
medical review board and as long as it was in good faith, they never
pass it through to the courts. If you have emergency medical
training, the only criteria is that you don't exceed the limits of the
training - like giving a cardiac patient a drug or start an IV if your
training is at the First Responder or EMT-Basic level.

I have personal experience with this so I'm fairly familiar with the
process. :)

Thanks for your input.
In Canada, as you have stated, you don't exceed the limits of your training.
I only have first aid training which I have to re-qualify every three years
or as required.
I am due for March 2008. This training does not allow us to administer
cardiac drug or sugar.
With your qualifications you may use the good Samaritans clause better than
the average citizen.
Today even the qualified Emergency physician is not immune against law suit.
Not to mention that, as a teenager I have already been in court to answer
questions relate to first aid given to a dying elderly night watchmen. With
the assistance of my father's lawyer I was cleared of any wrong doing.
Nevertheless It left a bad memory.
In Canada the father's approach and the good Samaritans laws are in used.
The problem is that, at time, you may get challenged.

Depends on the situation.....

I carry one and 2 D's and 1 E O2 with demand and forced O2 valves.... If
someone has a heart attack then your chances are not great if you have a
3 hour run to a hospital... BUT for more healthy people who suffer a
near drowning.. I understand O2 and a Defib will seriously help your
chances of survival. Either way it does give the patient a better shot.

I keep both in my car and transfer them to the boat when we go out. My
wife and kids are trained on both units as well as myself. I hope they
are like my boat and house insurance... a total waste of money.. BUT if
they are ever used..... they are worth all the money in the world....



Keith wrote:
On Apr 8, 2:26 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

of a "certain" age.

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?


Not me. Very expensive and only useful if you're pretty close to an
ambulance or hospital anyway. Would do you little if any good if you
were far away from real medical help.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 22:20:31 GMT, wrote:

So legal aspect will have to be cleared up accordingly. Otherwise some
good
Samaritans could be suit for wrong doing.

I'm not exactly sure where you live, but states have Good Samaritan
laws. As long as you help in good faith, and the simple fact that you
help is evidence of good faith, you are in the clear. In most states,
any legal filing related to emergency medical treatment has to pass a
medical review board and as long as it was in good faith, they never
pass it through to the courts. If you have emergency medical
training, the only criteria is that you don't exceed the limits of the
training - like giving a cardiac patient a drug or start an IV if your
training is at the First Responder or EMT-Basic level.

I have personal experience with this so I'm fairly familiar with the
process. :)




Good grief.

Cancel all future parties at our house.

Eisboch

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:26:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?

I've heard of a few but I'm not yet among them. How much training is
required to use them correctly, and how large are they?



Virtually no training is actually required, as they "talk" you though using
it on someone. It won't shock the person unless it determines it's needed.
There is some minor danger if you're touching the person, e.g., you don't
listen to the warning to stand clear.

You can take a CPR class throught the RX that gives you the certification,
but here in Cal (possibly elsewhere) the Good Samaritan laws protect people
who use them.

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:26:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?

I've heard of a few but I'm not yet among them. How much training is
required to use them correctly, and how large are they?

Virtually no training is actually required, as they "talk" you though
using it on someone. It won't shock the person unless it determines it's
needed. There is some minor danger if you're touching the person, e.g.,
you don't listen to the warning to stand clear.

You can take a CPR class throught the RX that gives you the certification,
but here in Cal (possibly elsewhere) the Good Samaritan laws protect
people who use them.

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

So what is the prognosis for the typical defib parient? Prior to last
summer's trip from California to Hawaii and back, I discussed heart attack
care with a doctor, and he wasn't too optimistic. He told me that unless
the patient could receive prompt follow-up treatment, the odds of a
successful recovery were pretty bad. Since we were at worst many days away
from outside medical help, I didn't pursue the defib unit (and some of the
crew were old enough that it might have been warranted).

Any opinions?

-Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:26:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?

I've heard of a few but I'm not yet among them. How much training is
required to use them correctly, and how large are they?

Virtually no training is actually required, as they "talk" you though
using it on someone. It won't shock the person unless it determines it's
needed. There is some minor danger if you're touching the person, e.g.,
you don't listen to the warning to stand clear.

You can take a CPR class throught the RX that gives you the
certification, but here in Cal (possibly elsewhere) the Good Samaritan
laws protect people who use them.

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

So what is the prognosis for the typical defib parient? Prior to last
summer's trip from California to Hawaii and back, I discussed heart attack
care with a doctor, and he wasn't too optimistic. He told me that unless
the patient could receive prompt follow-up treatment, the odds of a
successful recovery were pretty bad. Since we were at worst many days
away from outside medical help, I didn't pursue the defib unit (and some
of the crew were old enough that it might have been warranted).

Any opinions?

-Paul
Last evening we reviewed this subject with a Family Doctor and a Para Medic.
They concluded that if you can get to patient within 10 minutes you have
survival probability (pending a medical check up) of approximately 40%.
After which the patient has to be follow-up immediately and monitored by
medical specialists at a well equipped ER. Each case can be very different
and cannot be construed as typical. After an appropriate medical check up
surgery may be urgently required.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 20:58:07 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 22:20:31 GMT, wrote:

So legal aspect will have to be cleared up accordingly. Otherwise some
good
Samaritans could be suit for wrong doing.

I'm not exactly sure where you live, but states have Good Samaritan
laws. As long as you help in good faith, and the simple fact that you
help is evidence of good faith, you are in the clear. In most states,
any legal filing related to emergency medical treatment has to pass a
medical review board and as long as it was in good faith, they never
pass it through to the courts. If you have emergency medical
training, the only criteria is that you don't exceed the limits of the
training - like giving a cardiac patient a drug or start an IV if your
training is at the First Responder or EMT-Basic level.

I have personal experience with this so I'm fairly familiar with the
process. :)

Good grief.

Cancel all future parties at our house.

I'm ot sure what you are refereing to, but if you are talking about
the personal experience comment, it's kind of sad, but oddly amusing.

On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 01:59:31 -0700, "Paul" wrote:


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:26:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?

I've heard of a few but I'm not yet among them. How much training is
required to use them correctly, and how large are they?

Virtually no training is actually required, as they "talk" you though
using it on someone. It won't shock the person unless it determines it's
needed. There is some minor danger if you're touching the person, e.g.,
you don't listen to the warning to stand clear.

You can take a CPR class throught the RX that gives you the certification,
but here in Cal (possibly elsewhere) the Good Samaritan laws protect
people who use them.

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

So what is the prognosis for the typical defib parient? Prior to last
summer's trip from California to Hawaii and back, I discussed heart attack
care with a doctor, and he wasn't too optimistic. He told me that unless
the patient could receive prompt follow-up treatment, the odds of a
successful recovery were pretty bad. Since we were at worst many days away
from outside medical help, I didn't pursue the defib unit (and some of the
crew were old enough that it might have been warranted).

In my volunteer career as a paramedic, I've had around 60 or so cases
of cardiac arrest - rougly 40 of them were medical cases involving CPR
prior to the resuscitation attempt (I'm doing this from memory). Of
those, 4 were successful, but as I remember it, we were there within
five minutes of the event and CPR had been initiated immediately. The
other 20 or so were trauma related and most of them survived.

It's all in the timing. From what I've read, survival over CPR is
pretty spectacular and in general the use of auto defibrillators
increase the survival rate by about 30% over the old 10%.

It's pretty evident that if you can get things going quickly, the
chances or survival are good as long as you can also apply oxygen and
get the patient to higher level care in good time.

I would suspect that for ocean cruisers, it might not be beneficial
for somebody in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific. But for your
average cruiser along the coast, medical assistance isn't that far
away and could be a big advantage in keeping somebody long enough to
be attended to at a higher level.

On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 20:27:04 -0400, Ed wrote:

BUT for more healthy people who suffer a
near drowning.. I understand O2 and a Defib will seriously help your
chances of survival. Either way it does give the patient a better shot.

That's another good reason - near drowning.