lanteen sails
 

Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about without
dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks

lanteen sails
 

"Jewel" wrote in message
...
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks


They don't go at all. There is no such thing as a lanteen sail or a
lanteen rig.

Wilbur Hubbard

lanteen sails
 

Jewel wrote:
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about without
dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks


That's lateen. They generally just have a "bad tack" with the sail
pressed against the mast, but I'm sure I have seen dhows bring the base
of the yard around behind the mast so it sets right on either tack.

lanteen sails
 

On Mar 12, 2:55 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Jewel" wrote in message

...

Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks

They don't go at all. There is no such thing as a lanteen sail or a
lanteen rig.

Wilbur Hubbard


Having built and sailed two small sailboats with LATEEN rigs, I can
answer. You tack just as you would in any other sailboat. Both spars
of the sail (boom and gaff) are one side of the mast on either tack.
This does not matter at all because the pportion of the sail
immediately adjacent to the mast is very small and low compared to the
huge portion of the sail that is far from and undistorted by the
mast.. A Lateen rig is a great way to get a huge sail on a small boat
without using a tall mast.
On the sails I have made, I have considered cutting off the portion of
the sail that overlaps the mast but have not done so yet.

lanteen sails
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"Jewel" wrote in message
...
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks


They don't go at all. There is no such thing as a lanteen sail or a
lanteen rig.

Wilbur Hubbard
Sorry - of course I meant Lateen

lanteen sails
 

Jewel wrote:
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"Jewel" wrote in message
...

Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks


They don't go at all. There is no such thing as a lanteen sail or a
lanteen rig.

Wilbur Hubbard

Sorry - of course I meant Lateen


Everyone else here knew what you meant...as did that poster but he chose
to be a butthead instead of being decent and replying with a suitable
answer.

lanteen sails
 

"Jewel" wrote:
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.

"Frogwatch" wrote:
You tack just as you would in any other sailboat. Both spars
of the sail (boom and gaff) are one side of the mast on either tack.

I can only add, there can be a slight difference in the way the boat
sails (starboard vs port tack) due to the lump (or lack thereof)
caused by the mast against (or not) the sail. The difference on a
Sunfish, for example, is hardly noticable and of no concern unless
you're seriously into racing.

The original Lateen rigs, of a couple thousand years ago, DID drop
their sails to tack. Thence came the origination of the term "Chinese
firedrill" ;-)

(except I think it was Arab pirates that invented it)

Rick

lanteen sails
 

On the sails I have made, I have considered cutting off the portion of
the sail that overlaps the mast but have not done so yet.

Then it would become a lugsail, surely?

lanteen sails
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
Jewel wrote:
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"Jewel" wrote in message
...

Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks


They don't go at all. There is no such thing as a lanteen sail or a
lanteen rig.

Wilbur Hubbard

Sorry - of course I meant Lateen
Everyone else here knew what you meant...as did that poster but he
chose to be a butthead instead of being decent and replying with a
suitable answer.


Actually, I was more concerned with correcting a common mistake. We
sailors need to take pride in the proper use of sailing related
terminology.

Wilbur Hubbard

lanteen sails
 

tack or gybe, depending on the wind direction.

SV


"Jewel" wrote in message
...
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails
goes about without
dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks

lanteen sails
 

On Mar 12, 3:45 pm,
"Jewel" wrote:
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.

"Frogwatch" wrote:
You tack just as you would in any other sailboat. Both spars
of the sail (boom and gaff) are one side of the mast on either tack.

If you 're thinking Sunfish, yes. This is a modern rig for recreation,
and very different from the old-timey working vessels lateen rigs.


Phantman wrote:
I can only add, there can be a slight difference in the way the boat
sails (starboard vs port tack) due to the lump (or lack thereof)
caused by the mast against (or not) the sail. The difference on a
Sunfish, for example, is hardly noticable and of no concern unless
you're seriously into racing.

Even then, it's of no consequence because you're going to be racing
other Sunfish, or lese under a handicap that takes the rig into
account.

A long time ago I raced Sunfish pretty seriously, and tried the gaff
on one side and then the other. So did a LOT of other people. None
noticed any difference... a far greater difference is in where the
halyard & gooseneck are secured, and in how flat you hold the boat..


Phantman wrote:
The original Lateen rigs, of a couple thousand years ago, DID drop
their sails to tack. Thence came the origination of the term "Chinese
firedrill" ;-)

(except I think it was Arab pirates that invented it)


Why pirates & not honest traders?

Anyway, the lateen was devloped along the Med coast, possibly by the
Phoenicians. It is notably closer-winded than the square sail,
especially with ancient technology & materials. It is a sail for heavy
cargo ships which do not want to carry a lot of oarsmen to get to
windward... rowing galleys always carried square sails becuase they
would only sail downwind & in fair weather. In ancient/classic times,
the lateen was always boomless. A few classic lateens were rigged to
dip the gaff, ie swing it vertical and then around to set on the new
leeward side. Most of the ones that did this were obligated to gybe
instead of tack when doing so.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

lanteen sails
 

Scotty wrote:
tack or gybe, depending on the wind direction.

SV


"Jewel" wrote in message
...
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks

Having had the honour and delight of sailing a felucca on the Nile, I can
say that it is self tacking and sooo simple:-)


--
Sincerely,
Quilljar

lanteen sails
 

On the sails I have made, I have considered cutting off the portion of
the sail that overlaps the mast but have not done so yet.

"broadssailor" wrote:
Then it would become a lugsail, surely?

I dunno about surely, but the Sunfish type lateen does resemble a
balance lug more than a classic lateen rig.

DSK

lanteen sails
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

Actually, I was more concerned with correcting a common mistake. We
sailors need to take pride in the proper use of sailing related
terminology.


Wilbur,

If that is what you intended it didn't come across like that. I knew
immediately what the OP meant, even though I have never heard that
mistake before; if you did too, there are gentler ways of letting down
someone new to the sport.

Regards
Andy

lanteen sails
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"katy" wrote in message
...
Jewel wrote:
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"Jewel" wrote in message
...

Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks


They don't go at all. There is no such thing as a lanteen sail or a
lanteen rig.

Wilbur Hubbard

Sorry - of course I meant Lateen
Everyone else here knew what you meant...as did that poster but he chose
to be a butthead instead of being decent and replying with a suitable
answer.


Actually, I was more concerned with correcting a common mistake. We
sailors need to take pride in the proper use of sailing related
terminology.

Wilbur Hubbard
Absolutely right of course. What he meant to say was...


"he chose to be an arsehole instead of being decent and replying with a
suitable answer."

Honestly, some people just don't know the correct terminology. Now we have
the pedantry over, can we get back to sailing?

Floatything

lanteen sails
 

On Mar 12, 5:18 pm, "Floatything" dont wrote:
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message

...



"katy" wrote in message
...
Jewel wrote:
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"Jewel" wrote in message
...

Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks

They don't go at all. There is no such thing as a lanteen sail or a
lanteen rig.

Wilbur Hubbard

Sorry - of course I meant Lateen
Everyone else here knew what you meant...as did that poster but he chose
to be a butthead instead of being decent and replying with a suitable
answer.

Actually, I was more concerned with correcting a common mistake. We
sailors need to take pride in the proper use of sailing related
terminology.

Wilbur Hubbard

Absolutely right of course. What he meant to say was...

"he chose to be an arsehole instead of being decent and replying with a
suitable answer."

Honestly, some people just don't know the correct terminology. Now we have
the pedantry over, can we get back to sailing?

Floatything


I initially wanted to rig my MiniCups with a conventional Laser style
sail and jib but then calculated how high it would have to be. Now I
love my Lateen sails and rig. I experimented with shaping a lateen
sail, doesnt work meaning an easy to make flat cut sail works best. I
have figured out a way to make it reefable but havent done it yet.

LATEEN sails, LATEEN sails, LATEEN sails...
 

"Floatything" dont wrote in message
...

Honestly, some people just don't know the correct terminology. Now we
have the pedantry over, can we get back to sailing?

If some people don't know the correct terminology then they should be
taught the correct terminology immediately, if not before and sooner
than that if possible. Because of one person who spelled a word
incorrectly in the subject line we have hundreds of subscribers seeing
that incorrect spelling over and over and thinking that's the way it
should be. Shame on anybody who allows something like that to slide.
What's more important, sparing the feelings of a numbskull or
demonstrating correct terminology to the maundering masses?

Wilbur Hubbard

LATEEN sails
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote...

If some people don't know the correct terminology then they should be
taught the correct terminology immediately, if not before and sooner than
that if possible. Because of one person who spelled a word incorrectly in
the subject line we have hundreds of subscribers seeing that incorrect
spelling over and over and thinking that's the way it should be. Shame on
anybody who allows something like that to slide. What's more important,
sparing the feelings of a numbskull or demonstrating correct terminology
to the maundering masses?

Why is it, then, that you failed to follow your own stated philosophy? You
offered NO correction, but only propagated the error.

BTW, why do you choose to propagate a misspelling of "invalid"?

LATEEN sails
 

"John Weiss" jrweiss98155nospamatnospamcomcastdotnospamnet wrote in
message . ..
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote...

If some people don't know the correct terminology then they should be
taught the correct terminology immediately, if not before and sooner
than that if possible. Because of one person who spelled a word
incorrectly in the subject line we have hundreds of subscribers
seeing that incorrect spelling over and over and thinking that's the
way it should be. Shame on anybody who allows something like that to
slide. What's more important, sparing the feelings of a numbskull or
demonstrating correct terminology to the maundering masses?

Why is it, then, that you failed to follow your own stated philosophy?
You offered NO correction, but only propagated the error.

I am capable of following my own stated philosophy via any means I
choose. I offered no immediate correction because it is ofttimes more
effective to allow somebody who makes a mistake to figure it out for
himself. It's like the old saying, “Give a man a fish; you have fed him
for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime." My
method was to correct his spelling for a lifetime by letting him figure
out his error. Am I not entitled to teach in the manner of my own
choosing? Am I to be second-guessed by those too tardy or too slothful
to catch the error themselves?

BTW, why do you choose to propagate a misspelling of "invalid"?

I choose to do so in order to make the word invalid even more invalid
and to disassociate myself as much as possible from the copy cat crowd.
Monkey see - monkey do is not for me.

Wilbur Hubbard

LATEEN sails
 

Since we're being pedantic...
The question was about tacking not spelling



"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"John Weiss" jrweiss98155nospamatnospamcomcastdotnospamnet wrote in
message . ..
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote...

If some people don't know the correct terminology then they should be
taught the correct terminology immediately, if not before and sooner
than that if possible. Because of one person who spelled a word
incorrectly in the subject line we have hundreds of subscribers seeing
that incorrect spelling over and over and thinking that's the way it
should be. Shame on anybody who allows something like that to slide.
What's more important, sparing the feelings of a numbskull or
demonstrating correct terminology to the maundering masses?

Why is it, then, that you failed to follow your own stated philosophy?
You offered NO correction, but only propagated the error.

I am capable of following my own stated philosophy via any means I choose.
I offered no immediate correction because it is ofttimes more effective to
allow somebody who makes a mistake to figure it out for himself. It's like
the old saying, “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a
man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime." My method was to
correct his spelling for a lifetime by letting him figure out his error.
Am I not entitled to teach in the manner of my own choosing? Am I to be
second-guessed by those too tardy or too slothful to catch the error
themselves?

BTW, why do you choose to propagate a misspelling of "invalid"?

I choose to do so in order to make the word invalid even more invalid and
to disassociate myself as much as possible from the copy cat crowd. Monkey
see - monkey do is not for me.

Wilbur Hubbard

lanteen sails
 

On Mar 13, 3:44 am, "Jewel" wrote:
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about without
dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.

As others have said, you don't need to drop the rig
to go about if you have a small boat. The big arab
dhows do drop the rig. I imagine that they try to
tack as little as possible :-)

I have a little lateen rigged boat:
http://www.geocities.com/bruce_fountain/boats/

Actually that is my daughter's boat now (I am a bit
big for it) and it has a new sail, which did in fact
cost more than the boat. I am now back to sailing a laser.

I have to say that this rig is the easiest, most
well-behaved rig I have ever used. It points pretty
well too. I highly recommend it.

LATEEN sails
 

Richard wrote:
Since we're being pedantic...
The question was about tacking not spelling

He only knows how to spell; can't tack worth 2 cents...

lanteen sails
 

Phantman wrote:
The original Lateen rigs, of a couple thousand years ago, DID drop
their sails to tack.
snip
(except I think it was Arab pirates that invented it)

dougking888 wrote:
Why pirates & not honest traders?

Maybe they pirated the idea from the honest traders? Anyhow, the
pirates made such good use of it, the honest traders were forced to
change their shipping strategy to numerous smaller ships and shipments
rather than large ones... to spread the risk.

Anyway, the lateen was devloped along the Med coast, possibly by the
Phoenicians.

Seems to me they'd definitely have the incentive. That galley rowing
all the time's a killer. Wikopedia says the Romans introduced it, and
later developed by Byzantines and Arabs. I guess it depends on who's
history you believe. -shrug- Personally, I don't remember. Happened
before I was born. Anyhow, whoever invented it, changed the nature of
sailing and international commerce from then on.

Rick

lanteen sails
 

Scotty wrote:
I thought it was 'lateen' but I wanted to double check, so I
Googled 'Lanteen Sail'. There's a lot on 'Lanteen sails' on
the web. Are they all incorrect, or is it a case of tomato /
tomatoe?

Scotty


"Jewel" wrote in message
...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in

message

...

"Jewel" wrote in message


...

Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails

goes about

without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other

side.

Many thanks


They don't go at all. There is no such thing as a

lanteen sail or a

lanteen rig.

Wilbur Hubbard

Sorry - of course I meant Lateen





You can Google anything with the incorrect spelling and it will do a
bolean search for the nearest, most correct answer and include your
spelling in the title line...

lanteen sails
 

I thought it was 'lateen' but I wanted to double check, so I
Googled 'Lanteen Sail'. There's a lot on 'Lanteen sails' on
the web. Are they all incorrect, or is it a case of tomato /
tomatoe?

Scotty


"Jewel" wrote in message
...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
message
...

"Jewel" wrote in message

...
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails
goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other
side.
Many thanks


They don't go at all. There is no such thing as a
lanteen sail or a
lanteen rig.

Wilbur Hubbard
Sorry - of course I meant Lateen

LATEEN sails, LATEEN sails, LATEEN sails...
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"Floatything" dont wrote in message
...

Honestly, some people just don't know the correct terminology. Now we
have the pedantry over, can we get back to sailing?

If some people don't know the correct terminology then they should be
taught the correct terminology immediately, if not before and sooner than
that if possible.

Then why didn't you? Why did you find it necessary to be obtuse?

Because of one person who spelled a word incorrectly in the subject line we
have hundreds of subscribers seeing that incorrect spelling over and over
and thinking that's the way it should be. Shame on anybody who allows
something like that to slide. What's more important, sparing the feelings
of a numbskull or demonstrating correct terminology to the maundering
masses?

What's more important is being civil. Usenet is chock full of gold-plated
assholes. No point in adding yourself to the list.

Max

LATEEN sails
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"John Weiss" jrweiss98155nospamatnospamcomcastdotnospamnet wrote in

BTW, why do you choose to propagate a misspelling of "invalid"?

I choose to do so in order to make the word invalid even more invalid and
to disassociate myself as much as possible from the copy cat crowd. Monkey
see - monkey do is not for me.

Nice explanation, Neal.

Think anyone will buy it?

Max

lanteen sails
 

"Quilljar" wrote in message
...
Scotty wrote:
tack or gybe, depending on the wind direction.

SV


"Jewel" wrote in message
...
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks

Having had the honour and delight of sailing a felucca on the Nile, I can
say that it is self tacking and sooo simple:-)

Is the felucca a conversion of another type of boat with a lateen rig added,
or was it designed as a sailboat? I've always thought they look as if they
should have been powered by a small inboard.

Max

lanteen sails
 

Why pirates & not honest traders?

Phantman wrote:
Maybe they pirated the idea from the honest traders? Anyhow, the
pirates made such good use of it, the honest traders were forced to
change their shipping strategy to numerous smaller ships and shipments
rather than large ones... to spread the risk.


True, at some points. Piracy has followed cycles (just like most
economic activity) and there were certainly periods in antiquity when
pirates were a very strong factor in shipping. Julius Ceasar was
captured and held for ransom by pirates in his early days.


Anyway, the lateen was devloped along the Med coast, possibly by the
Phoenicians.

Seems to me they'd definitely have the incentive. That galley rowing
all the time's a killer. Wikopedia says the Romans introduced it, and
later developed by Byzantines and Arabs. I guess it depends on who's
history you believe.

I'm not going to jump into a debate that maritime historians have
argued for decades (possibly centuries). But at this point, we have a
lot of physical remains of ships from antiquity, and find different
structures (including mast steps & partners) that could have supported
a fore-n-aft rig... and others that definitely could not have. For
example, the Egyptians did a lot of coastal trading about the eastern
Med but apparently did not use the lateen until long after other
people had proven it's worth. Personally my vote is for either the
Phoenicians or the Minoans, both of whom had extensive sea trade and
were technological innovators. The Romans were great at copying other
people's inventions, but were not really a nation of inventors &
tinkerers.

-shrug- Personally, I don't remember.

Hah!
If you were an *old* old salt, you'd have been there!

... Anyhow, whoever invented it, changed the nature of
sailing and international commerce from then on.


Agreed. Sailing to windward was in invention ranking right up there
with the wheel IMHO... and more important for many centuries, in terms
of tonnage carried.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

lanteen sails
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:31:41 -0400, katy
wrote:

Scotty wrote:
I thought it was 'lateen' but I wanted to double check,
so I
Googled 'Lanteen Sail'. There's a lot on 'Lanteen
sails' on
the web. Are they all incorrect, or is it a case of
tomato /
tomatoe?

You can Google anything with the incorrect spelling and
it will do a
bolean search for the nearest, most correct answer and
include your
spelling in the title line...

They call that "katyserch" (sic)


BwaHahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!

LATEEN sails, LATEEN sails, LATEEN sails...
 

Maxprop wrote:


What's more important is being civil. Usenet is chock full of gold-plated
assholes. No point in adding yourself to the list.

Max


He's been on that list for quite some time...

lanteen sails
 

In article . com,
Frogwatch wrote:

...

Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about
without dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks

Having built and sailed two small sailboats with LATEEN rigs, I can
answer. You tack just as you would in any other sailboat. Both spars
of the sail (boom and gaff) are one side of the mast on either tack.
This does not matter at all because the pportion of the sail
immediately adjacent to the mast is very small and low compared to the
huge portion of the sail that is far from and undistorted by the
mast.. A Lateen rig is a great way to get a huge sail on a small boat
without using a tall mast.

It's pretty much the same way of sailing as a standing lugsail - you go
about but leave the sail where it was. It means that the rig is less
efficient on one tack than t'other, but that's something that you just
live with.

Of course, with a big enough crew you /could/ drop the sail, swing the
yard to the other side of the mast and re-hoist. This is the same process
as is done with balanced lug rig - it gets a boost in efficiency in
sailing at the cost of going about more slowly - and of carrying many
extra pairs of hands.

As the other poster said, it's a great way to get a large sail area on a
small boat. Just be careful gybing.

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

lanteen sails
 

On 13 Mar, 02:36, wrote:

That galley rowing
all the time's a killer. Wikopedia says the Romans introduced it,

I've just read a biography of Boudica. That concurs that the Romans
were the first to come up with Galleys with multiple tiers of oars
giving a serious alternative power source. Designed for the first
'invasion' of Britain but first used to kick Gaul arse on the French/
Spanish Coast. It seems the technique was to load up the boats with
soldiers, wait for a flat calm then row about your opponent's (poorly
manned) stationary ships dealing with them one by one.

The Romans knew damn all about boats and damn all about seamanship
outside of the Med. Apparently they just copied their boats from the
Greeks, and added oars. Great example of fresh thinking, and coming up
with your own solution based on you strengths. Apparently there's no
evidence they were manned by slaves.

lanteen sails
 

In article .com,
toad wrote:
On 13 Mar, 02:36, wrote:

That galley rowing
all the time's a killer. Wikopedia says the Romans introduced it,

I've just read a biography of Boudica. That concurs that the Romans
were the first to come up with Galleys with multiple tiers of oars
giving a serious alternative power source. Designed for the first

Not even nearly. Try the Greeks in the ~700-800 BCE era for two-tier
galleys (/probably/ the Ionian city-states). Triremes (three tiers) were
introduced (by Samos?) somewhere around or before 600 BCE and were the
most common "capital ships" until the Hellenistic period, after the
break-up of Alexander the Great's empire - the successor states then
began putting more than one man on an oar, leading eventually to galleys
with 20 men diposed on three vertically-tiered oars (Ptolemy IV went as
far as a catamaran galley with two "twentys" fastened together. A big, big
ship with plenty of oar power. Probably a brute to handle under sail,
though.

The big galleys vanished from sight after Actium, and by the time of the
Roman invasion of Britain (Claudius, not Caesar's raiding expeditions)
they were long gone - galleys of the Imperial period were small biremes
(Liburnians - two-deck galleys) and a few triremes - back to the Greek
ships of nearly 500 years before, in size at least.

http://www.amazon.com/Ships-Seamansh.../dp/0801851300

is probably the best general reference on the subject.

The Romans knew damn all about boats and damn all about seamanship
outside of the Med. Apparently they just copied their boats from the
Greeks, and added oars. Great example of fresh thinking, and coming up

Copied more from Carthegian designs than Greek - Greek ships were
still much bigger than the Roman or Cartheginian ships of that period.

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

lanteen sails
 

On 13 Mar, 14:01, (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
In article .com,

toad wrote:
On 13 Mar, 02:36, wrote:

That galley rowing
all the time's a killer. Wikopedia says the Romans introduced it,

I've just read a biography of Boudica. That concurs that the Romans
were the first to come up with Galleys with multiple tiers of oars
giving a serious alternative power source. Designed for the first

Not even nearly. Try the Greeks in the ~700-800 BCE era for two-tier
galleys (/probably/ the Ionian city-states). Triremes (three tiers) were
introduced (by Samos?) somewhere around or before 600 BCE and were the
most common "capital ships" until the Hellenistic period, after the
break-up of Alexander the Great's empire - the successor states then
began putting more than one man on an oar, leading eventually to galleys
with 20 men diposed on three vertically-tiered oars (Ptolemy IV went as
far as a catamaran galley with two "twentys" fastened together. A big, big
ship with plenty of oar power. Probably a brute to handle under sail,
though.

Probably my memory at fault.

The big galleys vanished from sight after Actium, and by the time of the
Roman invasion of Britain (Claudius, not Caesar's raiding expeditions)
they were long gone -

I'm pretty sure that's not the case. The same 3 tier ships were used
to put down Gaulish sailors by Claudius in preperation for his
invasion of Britain and that was well after Actium. 3 tier ships were
part of the equipment produced to invade Britain, IIRC before then the
Romans had no interest in seafaring outside of the Med. Ergo,
something designed especially for the invasion of Britain could not
have been obselete at the time of the invasion of Britain. (I think.)

lanteen sails
 

In article . com,
toad wrote:
On 13 Mar, 14:01, (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
In article .com,

toad wrote:

I've just read a biography of Boudica. That concurs that the Romans
were the first to come up with Galleys with multiple tiers of oars
giving a serious alternative power source. Designed for the first

The big galleys vanished from sight after Actium, and by the time of the
Roman invasion of Britain (Claudius, not Caesar's raiding expeditions)
they were long gone -

I'm pretty sure that's not the case. The same 3 tier ships were used
to put down Gaulish sailors by Claudius in preperation for his
invasion of Britain and that was well after Actium. 3 tier ships were

Small triremes were (IIRC) used, though by AD 43 Gaullish resistance was
well-pacified (heck, by AD 43 I think Claudius had got the Senate to
accept Gauls as Senators... - or was that post-invasion once he had some
prestige to use). This may have been to do with the invasion fleet (like
the rest of the invasion force) having been assembled by Caligula, who
was a sucker for things which looked impressive.

Julius certainly used Triremes (and, I think, a few "fours" and "fives" -
two- and three- level ships with more than one man per oar) against the
Veneti fleet (of large, powerful sailing ships; not dissimilar so far as
can be told from the early-medieavel "Hulk") - the battles you're
describing sound more like those of the 50s BC than 43 AD. Julius' raids
were, of course, before Actium.

part of the equipment produced to invade Britain, IIRC before then the
Romans had no interest in seafaring outside of the Med. Ergo,
something designed especially for the invasion of Britain could not
have been obselete at the time of the invasion of Britain. (I think.)

It's possible that Caligula "re-invented" the Trireme for this. It's
amazing what you can claim when you're a God.. ;)

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

lanteen sails
 

toad wrote:
I've just read a biography of Boudica.

While we are on the pedantry trail - two Cs, or else you can't misread
it as Boadicea.

Andy

LATEEN sails, LATEEN sails, LATEEN sails...
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:


What's more important is being civil. Usenet is chock full of
gold-plated assholes. No point in adding yourself to the list.

Max
He's been on that list for quite some time...

I know, but I was giving him a chance to repent. (or take the hook which.
to his credit, he assiduously avoided)

Max

lanteen sails
 

On 13 Mar, 19:39, Andy Champ wrote:
toad wrote:
I've just read a biography of Boudica.

While we are on the pedantry trail - two Cs, or else you can't misread
it as Boadicea.

Clue: It wasn't misread as Boadicea from an English language text.

The current English language spelling is as I wrote it. (http://
tinyurl.com/2rp6q2) Of course that's academic. Nobody knows if she
really existed. If she existed, nobody knows if she was really leader
of the rebellion or a smaller player. Nobody knows if Boudica was a
name or a title. Nobody knows how the name or title was spelt or what
it really meant. (Boudica probably translates as Victorious but nobody
knows.) Spellings of the name of the Iceni warrior Queen run into
dozens. Some completely unrecognizable as Boudica, some pretty
similar. Voudica is a similar one for instance.

In short, you can, with some credibility, spell the name/title of the
Iceni warrior Queen any way you wish. What you can't do with any
credibility is tell someone else how they should spell it.

lanteen sails
 

"Jewel" wrote in message
...
Anyone tell me how a vessel equipped with lanteen sails goes about without
dropping its sail and resetting it on the other side.
Many thanks
Very many thanks for all the informative replies.
Thanks again