On 12 Mar 2007 14:34:02 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

The prices at which boats are actually selling determine the true
market value.

Exactly.

And I guarentee you they aren't selling at $10/12000.

On Mar 12, 3:10?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 14:34:02 -0700, "Chuck Gould"

wrote:
The prices at which boats are actually selling determine the true
market value.

Exactly.

And I guarentee you they aren't selling at $10/12000.

That's odd- the original poster in this thread just reported paying
$10,000 for one of these. (And an examination of 64 different boat ads
discloses that $10,000 is a common offering price for this model, with
some examples a few thousand higher and some examples a few thousand
less). Did he overpay by 66% because NADA says he did, or did he shop
around and decide to pay that price based on comparable offerings?
That's the focus of the question.

On 12 Mar 2007 16:33:10 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

On Mar 12, 3:10?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 14:34:02 -0700, "Chuck Gould"

wrote:
The prices at which boats are actually selling determine the true
market value.

Exactly.

And I guarentee you they aren't selling at $10/12000.

That's odd- the original poster in this thread just reported paying
$10,000 for one of these. (And an examination of 64 different boat ads
discloses that $10,000 is a common offering price for this model, with
some examples a few thousand higher and some examples a few thousand
less). Did he overpay by 66% because NADA says he did, or did he shop
around and decide to pay that price based on comparable offerings?
That's the focus of the question.

You obviously know more than anybody here about the subject.

I bow to your expertise.

On Mar 12, 6:13 pm, Gene Kearns


89 Bayliners make excellent submarines.

and reefs



Why do you think they're called "Bay-liners?"

also easy to clean the cabin after the deck pops off.
JR

Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute wrote:

In message ups.com, brian
sprach forth the following:


89 Bayliners make excellent submarines.


--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:00:28 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On 12 Mar 2007 16:33:10 -0700, Chuck Gould penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Mar 12, 3:10?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 14:34:02 -0700, "Chuck Gould"

wrote:
The prices at which boats are actually selling determine the true
market value.

Exactly.

And I guarentee you they aren't selling at $10/12000.

That's odd- the original poster in this thread just reported paying
$10,000 for one of these. (And an examination of 64 different boat ads
discloses that $10,000 is a common offering price for this model, with
some examples a few thousand higher and some examples a few thousand
less). Did he overpay by 66% because NADA says he did, or did he shop
around and decide to pay that price based on comparable offerings?
That's the focus of the question.

Jeeze, Chuck..... an "offering price" is nearly always a *reality
check* for these price point boats. Based on local selling/buying he
most likely got stung. His market might be *really different,* but I
don't know why.....

No, let's not beat up Chuck - he has a lot of experience in this area
and I for one will take his word that NADA is not used by boat dealers
of any good repute.

I'm sure that all those Bayliner owners will sell their boats for well
north of the listed NADA price.

I'll take Chuck at his word.

On 12 Mar 2007 18:03:51 -0700, "Tim" wrote:

On Mar 12, 6:13 pm, Gene Kearns


89 Bayliners make excellent submarines.

and reefs

Why do you think they're called "Bay-liners?"

Ok - that was funny. :)

On Mar 12, 6:00?pm, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 16:33:10 -0700, Chuck Gould penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:





On Mar 12, 3:10?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 14:34:02 -0700, "Chuck Gould"

wrote:
The prices at which boats are actually selling determine the true
market value.

Exactly.

And I guarentee you they aren't selling at $10/12000.

That's odd- the original poster in this thread just reported paying
$10,000 for one of these. (And an examination of 64 different boat ads
discloses that $10,000 is a common offering price for this model, with
some examples a few thousand higher and some examples a few thousand
less). Did he overpay by 66% because NADA says he did, or did he shop
around and decide to pay that price based on comparable offerings?
That's the focus of the question.

Jeeze, Chuck..... an "offering price" is nearly always a *reality
check* for these price point boats. Based on local selling/buying he
most likely got stung. His market might be *really different,* but I
don't know why.....


It's tough to craft a convincing argument that there is no resale
market for the most popular selling boat new boat in the world.

I haven't seen the guy's boat. It could be a real Turdship, or not. I
wouldn't begin to say what the boat is worth without seeing it, nor
should others. Unless a market is locally depressed for a particular
model (as you say yours is for all Bayliners), there is going to be
reslae activity at a general price level.

The skeptic pipes up and says, "But how do you know that those 40 some
out of 60 people advertising their boats for 40-100% (and more) above
the NADA are getting those prices?" Obviously, we don't. However, we
do have a general indicator. People with a boat on the market always
tend to start high. Human nature. When a boat goes unsold for week
after week, the advertised price starts getting a little softer. In
most cases, the price drops at a slow but steady pace until the phone
starts to ring. Joila! That's the price that will lkely attract a
buyer in the local market. The fact that very, very few of the
Bayliners similar to the one the original poster just bought are
priced down even close to the "high retail" in NADA is a pretty good
indicator that the street price is a lot higher than the NADA fantasy
figure. The boats are being sold and disappear from the market before
the sellers have to get down to such a low number.

No serious marine lenders in our region use NADA for anything boating
related. A couple of credit unions do- but only because their loan
underwriting guidelines require them to do so.

I'll never forget a go-around I had with a local credit union one
time. A guy came in and put money on a boat, and said he was going to
arrange his own financing. Fine. As I remember, he made better than
just an "OK" deal on about a 35-foot boat. He called me two days
later, mad as heck. He'd stopped payment on his deposit check, and
accused me of trying to rip him off.
"My credit union showed me the NADA," he said. "Even with all the
options figured in, you were charging me over $30,000 too much for the
boat!" (The transaction price was about $150,000).

I sent him copies of the reported sales prices for the same boat in
our region.
I sent him copies of the advertised asking prices for the same boat in
our region. I reminded him that he had been shopping and comparing for
several months before he made the offer on the boat. He said, "The
only people I can count on to be on my side in this whole deal is my
credit union. They're telling me that you're trying to rip me off, and
that's the end of the story as far as we're concerned."

Finally I called the credit union. "Sorry," said the loan officer. "We
adhere stricly to the NADA guidelines."

"So how many boat loans do you write?" I asked.

"Almost none. Everybody comes in with a deal that's so far over book
we're not allowed to make the loan."

In other words, "the rest of the army is out of step".

I ran into the same customer several months later. I asked him what
sort of boat he finally ended up with. "Oh, we haven't bought a boat
yet. We can't find anybody honest enough to sell us one for what NADA
and the credit union says we should pay."

On Mar 12, 9:52�pm, "Chuck Gould" wrote:
On Mar 12, 6:00?pm, Gene Kearns
wrote:





On 12 Mar 2007 16:33:10 -0700, Chuck Gould penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Mar 12, 3:10?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 14:34:02 -0700, "Chuck Gould"

wrote:
The prices at which boats are actually selling determine the true
market value.

Exactly.

And I guarentee you they aren't selling at $10/12000.

That's odd- the original poster in this thread just reported paying
$10,000 for one of these. (And an examination of 64 different boat ads
discloses that $10,000 is a common offering price for this model, with
some examples a few thousand higher and some examples a few thousand
less). Did he overpay by 66% because NADA says he did, or did he shop
around and decide to pay that price based on comparable offerings?
That's the focus of the question.

Jeeze, Chuck..... an "offering price" is nearly always a *reality
check* for these price point boats. Based on local selling/buying he
most likely got stung. His market might be *really different,* but I
don't know why.....

It's tough to craft a convincing argument that there is no resale
market for the most popular selling boat new boat in the world.

I haven't seen the guy's boat. It could be a real Turdship, or not. I
wouldn't begin to say what the boat is worth without seeing it, nor
should others. Unless a market is locally depressed for a particular
model (as you say yours is for all Bayliners), there is going to be
reslae activity at a general price level.

The skeptic pipes up and says, "But how do you know that those 40 some
out of 60 people advertising their boats for 40-100% (and more) above
the NADA are getting those prices?" *Obviously, we don't. However, we
do have a general indicator. People with a boat on the market always
tend to start high. Human nature. When a boat goes unsold for week
after week, the advertised price starts getting a little softer. In
most cases, the price drops at a slow but steady pace until the phone
starts to ring. Joila! That's the price that will lkely attract a
buyer in the local market. The fact that very, very few of the
Bayliners similar to the one the original poster just bought are
priced down even close to the "high retail" in NADA is a pretty good
indicator that the street price is a lot higher than the NADA fantasy
figure. The boats are being sold and disappear from the market before
the sellers have to get down to such a low number.

No serious marine lenders in our region use NADA for anything boating
related. A couple of credit unions do- but only because their loan
underwriting guidelines require them to do so.

I'll never forget a go-around I had with a local credit union one
time. A guy came in and put money on a boat, and said he was going to
arrange his own financing. Fine. As I remember, he made better than
just an "OK" deal on about a 35-foot boat. He called me two days
later, mad as heck. He'd stopped payment on his deposit check, and
accused me of trying to rip him off.
"My credit union showed me the NADA," he said. "Even with all the
options figured in, you were charging me over $30,000 too much for the
boat!" (The transaction price was about $150,000).

I sent him copies of the reported sales prices for the same boat in
our region.
I sent him copies of the advertised asking prices for the same boat in
our region. I reminded him that he had been shopping and comparing for
several months before he made the offer on the boat. *He said, "The
only people I can count on to be on my side in this whole deal is my
credit union. They're telling me that you're trying to rip me off, and
that's the end of the story as far as we're concerned."

Finally I called the credit union. "Sorry," said the loan officer. "We
adhere stricly to the NADA guidelines."

"So how many boat loans do you write?" I asked.

"Almost none. Everybody comes in with a deal that's so far over book
we're not allowed to make the loan."

In other words, "the rest of the army is out of step".

I ran into the same customer several months later. I asked him what
sort of boat he finally ended up with. "Oh, we haven't bought a boat
yet. We can't find anybody honest enough to sell us one for what NADA
and the credit union says we should pay."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pretty interesting, Chuck.

I haven't followed this thread, but I am wondering why NADA is used. Years
ago I bought the BUC books and, if I recall correctly, their boat value
estimates are based on actual sales by region and by condition.

Eisboch