i have just purchased this boat for 10,000.00 from a privet party. it
has the 5.8 cobra in it and trim tabs and what not. i am looking for
any information on this boat as to the boat itself or the engine and
outdrive. looking for any information that i can get regarding the
safety of this boat. and what to look out for . i am having a mechanic
look at it first before the deal is final. just wondering if the is
any information out there regarding this boat/engine history that
someone can help me with. it would be most apprecitated. this is our
first BIG boat. we just upgraded from a 1850 bayliner 1999. and used
the money to get this bigger one for the family and friends. camping
and fun. also know what the top speed is on this as well. 351. thanks
for any information you can provide. brian

On 12 Mar 2007 00:38:59 -0700, "brian" wrote:

i have just purchased this boat for 10,000.00 from a privet party.

You bought a boat from a shrub? :)

You've over paid for the boat by about $4,000 even if it's in perfect,
mint showroom condition. The book says it's worth $6,000 in average
condition with average cosmetics. Practically, looking at the various
buying guides quickly, they are averaging $5200 ask price in good
condition in my area - if you can find one that is.

has the 5.8 cobra in it and trim tabs and what not. i am looking for
any information on this boat as to the boat itself or the engine and
outdrive. looking for any information that i can get regarding the
safety of this boat. and what to look out for . i am having a mechanic
look at it first before the deal is final.

It's a "bubble" boat - a type of vessel designed for maximum interior
space. They tend to have a lot of windage and accessing the bow along
the deck can be problematic and in some cases downright dangerous.
Cockpit space can be limited due to design.

just wondering if the is
any information out there regarding this boat/engine history that
someone can help me with. it would be most apprecitated. this is our
first BIG boat. we just upgraded from a 1850 bayliner 1999. and used
the money to get this bigger one for the family and friends. camping
and fun. also know what the top speed is on this as well. 351. thanks
for any information you can provide.

Well, first, you are going down ten years from '99 to '89 and that's
never a good thing. Are you trading your boat against this boat by
any chance?

Secondly, it's your choice, but I would have a marine surveyor look
through the boat before I put any serious money on it - a mechanic is
fine for looking over the engine and outdrive, but this type of boat
can develop some interesting problems over time and surveyors have
access to information not generally available to the public.

It also depends on how the boat was used, how many hours of use, how
it was stored (on a trailer, shrink wrapped or tarp or nothing), etc.

If it were me and I was looking for a larger boat, I'd look into other
makes and models. For ten grand you can buy a newer used boat
probably in better condition.

I refuse to get into the whole Bayliner debate except for this - it's
right before Trophy bought them and I believe Bayliner had some
serious issues with quality about this time. I could be wrong.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 00:38:59 -0700, "brian" wrote:

i have just purchased this boat for 10,000.00 from a privet party.

You bought a boat from a shrub? :)

You've over paid for the boat by about $4,000 even if it's in perfect,
mint showroom condition. The book says it's worth $6,000 in average
condition with average cosmetics. Practically, looking at the various
buying guides quickly, they are averaging $5200 ask price in good
condition in my area - if you can find one that is.

has the 5.8 cobra in it and trim tabs and what not. i am looking for
any information on this boat as to the boat itself or the engine and
outdrive. looking for any information that i can get regarding the
safety of this boat. and what to look out for . i am having a mechanic
look at it first before the deal is final.

It's a "bubble" boat - a type of vessel designed for maximum interior
space. They tend to have a lot of windage and accessing the bow along
the deck can be problematic and in some cases downright dangerous.
Cockpit space can be limited due to design.

just wondering if the is
any information out there regarding this boat/engine history that
someone can help me with. it would be most apprecitated. this is our
first BIG boat. we just upgraded from a 1850 bayliner 1999. and used
the money to get this bigger one for the family and friends. camping
and fun. also know what the top speed is on this as well. 351. thanks
for any information you can provide.

Well, first, you are going down ten years from '99 to '89 and that's
never a good thing. Are you trading your boat against this boat by
any chance?

Secondly, it's your choice, but I would have a marine surveyor look
through the boat before I put any serious money on it - a mechanic is
fine for looking over the engine and outdrive, but this type of boat
can develop some interesting problems over time and surveyors have
access to information not generally available to the public.

It also depends on how the boat was used, how many hours of use, how
it was stored (on a trailer, shrink wrapped or tarp or nothing), etc.

If it were me and I was looking for a larger boat, I'd look into other
makes and models. For ten grand you can buy a newer used boat
probably in better condition.

I refuse to get into the whole Bayliner debate except for this - it's
right before Trophy bought them and I believe Bayliner had some
serious issues with quality about this time. I could be wrong.


I am not sure, but I had the feel that this was a troll. $10,000 for a
18yr old Bayliner 2455 seemed high, but he is asking for opinions after
he signed a contract. Something about a cart before a horse comes to mind.

On Mar 12, 3:42�am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 00:38:59 -0700, "brian" wrote:

i have just purchased this boat for 10,000.00 from a privet party.

You bought a boat from a shrub? *:)

You've over paid for the boat by about $4,000 even if it's in perfect,
mint showroom condition. *The book says it's worth $6,000 in average
condition with average cosmetics. *Practically, looking at the various
buying guides quickly, they are averaging $5200 ask price in good
condition in my area - if *you can find one that is.


You could make a really decent living buying up all the perfect, mint,
showroom condition 2455 Bayliners you can find for $6000. Here is an
abbreviated list of boats currently available (from Boats.com). I'll
bet most are not in bristol shape, but you'll see the pricing trend:

'84 24 Ciera (Huron, OH) $8900
'87 24 Ceira (Rogers, MN) $8995
'88 245 (Egg Harbor, NJ) $7995
87 2450 (Aurora, IN) $9950
'87 2450 Ciera (St Clair Shores, MI) $9999
'87 2450 (Washington, NV) $8990
88 2450 Ciera (Everett, WA) $12995
'89 2455 (South Haven, MI) $9900
'87 2455 (New Windsor, NY) $14900 (?!)
89 2455 (Verplank, NY) $9200
'89 2455 (Red Wing, MN) $6295
'88 2455 (Alton Bay, NH) $6495
'89 2455 (New Buffalo, MI) $6900
'89 2455 (Westbrook, ME) $9995
'88 2455 (Portland, ME) $11,495
'88 2455 (Chicago, IL) $14000
'89 2455 (Fox Lake, IL) $12995
'88 2455 (Port Clinton, OH) $12995


The list goes on and on, but this covers the first three pages in the
exact order that the boats appeard. Out of 18 boats, only three are
listed under $7k, ( and none listed at $6k or less) while 10 are
listed at effectively $10,000 or more.

It would be pretty difficult to make a case that $6000 is the
appropriate selling price for this boat in bristol condition. Of
course there will be a difference between asking and selling price,
but not typically 40-50%.

The boat in question in the original post is worth somewhere between
$ZERO and the price the poster is paying for it.

I agree that he needs to spend a little money on a surveyor now rather
than a ton of money on unexpected repairs a couple of months from now.

On 12 Mar 2007 10:09:02 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

On Mar 12, 3:42?am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 00:38:59 -0700, "brian" wrote:

i have just purchased this boat for 10,000.00 from a privet party.

You bought a boat from a shrub? :)

You've over paid for the boat by about $4,000 even if it's in perfect,
mint showroom condition. he book says it's worth $6,000 in average
condition with average cosmetics. ractically, looking at the various
buying guides quickly, they are averaging $5200 ask price in good
condition in my area - if 9ou can find one that is.


You could make a really decent living buying up all the perfect, mint,
showroom condition 2455 Bayliners you can find for $6000. Here is an
abbreviated list of boats currently available (from Boats.com). I'll
bet most are not in bristol shape, but you'll see the pricing trend:

Low/Average retail via NADA.

'84 24 Ciera (Huron, OH) $8900

$4260/4280

'87 24 Ceira (Rogers, MN) $8995

$5188/$5870

'88 245 (Egg Harbor, NJ) $7995

$5530/6270

87 2450 (Aurora, IN) $9950

$5180/5870

'87 2450 Ciera (St Clair Shores, MI) $9999

Same

'87 2450 (Washington, NV) $8990

Same

88 2450 Ciera (Everett, WA) $12995

$5530/6270

'89 2455 (South Haven, MI) $9900

$6150/6980

'87 2455 (New Windsor, NY) $14900 (?!)

$5180/8870

89 2455 (Verplank, NY) $9200

$6150/6980


And so on.

The list goes on and on, but this covers the first three pages in the
exact order that the boats appeard. Out of 18 boats, only three are
listed under $7k, ( and none listed at $6k or less) while 10 are
listed at effectively $10,000 or more.

Well, I don't know how you got 18 boats because I only got eleven and
of the eleven, six were appropriately priced. From Boats.com.

It would be pretty difficult to make a case that $6000 is the
appropriate selling price for this boat in bristol condition. Of
course there will be a difference between asking and selling price,
but not typically 40-50%.

Them's the figures. When was the last time you sold a '88/89 Bayliner
even in Bristol condition for more than it's retail value?

Being totally fair, I called three marine dealers that I know and had
them check their books against NADA - dead nuts on the money.

I guess you should have stayed in the boat sales business rather than
the magazine business if you think you can get that for a Bayliner of
that age regardless of condition.

By the way, the ones I saw that were in the "ridiculous" category, one
had a new engine with less than 100 hours. And two of the more higher
priced ones were "price reduced!!!".

There's nothing wrong with maximizing your "return", but there is
unrealistic.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

The boat in question in the original post is worth somewhere between
$ZERO and the price the poster is paying for it.

Duh.

I agree that he needs to spend a little money on a surveyor now rather
than a ton of money on unexpected repairs a couple of months from now.

Well slap my ass and call me Sally - we agree on something. :)

On Mar 12, 11:28�am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 10:09:02 -0700, "Chuck Gould"





wrote:
On Mar 12, 3:42?am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 00:38:59 -0700, "brian" wrote:

i have just purchased this boat for 10,000.00 from a privet party.

You bought a boat from a shrub? :)

You've over paid for the boat by about $4,000 even if it's in perfect,
mint showroom condition. *he book says it's worth $6,000 in average
condition with average cosmetics. *ractically, looking at the various
buying guides quickly, they are averaging $5200 ask price in good
condition in my area - if 9ou can find one that is.

You could make a really decent living buying up all the perfect, mint,
showroom condition 2455 Bayliners you can find for $6000. Here is an
abbreviated list of boats currently available (from Boats.com). I'll
bet most are not in bristol shape, but you'll see the pricing trend:

Low/Average retail via NADA.

'84 24 Ciera (Huron, OH) $8900

$4260/4280

So this guy is double NADA


'87 24 Ceira (Rogers, MN) $8995

$5188/$5870


This guy is 50-70% above NADA


'88 245 (Egg Harbor, NJ) $7995

$5530/6270


This guy is 30-50% over NADA



87 2450 (Aurora, IN) $9950

$5180/5870


More than 50% over NADA



'87 2450 Ciera (St Clair Shores, MI) $9999

Same

'87 2450 (Washington, NV) $8990

Same

88 2450 Ciera (Everett, WA) $12995

$5530/6270

More than double NADA



'89 2455 (South Haven, MI) $9900

$6150/6980


50% or more over NADA


'87 2455 (New Windsor, NY) $14900 (?!)

$5180/8870


way the heck over NADA




89 2455 (Verplank, NY) $9200

$6150/6980

And so on.

The list goes on and on, but this covers the first three pages in the
exact order that the boats appeard. Out of 18 boats, only three are
listed under $7k, ( and none listed at $6k or less) while 10 are
listed at effectively $10,000 or more.

Well, I don't know how you got 18 boats because I only got eleven and
of the eleven, six were appropriately priced. *From Boats.com.


I actually got 64


http://www.boats.com/listing/cache/l...=45&Search.y=9


Almost none were as cheaply priced as NADA suggests they should be.

There are problems associated with using the NADA (National Automobile
Dealers Association) book for boat pricing.

1. Boat pricing is far more regional than auto pricing. If there is a
huge price disparity on (for example) 2002 Toyota Corrolas available
at auction in Texas and the same car available at auction in Oregon,
the car carriers start to roll and things between the cheaper place
and the more expensive and things even out. Seldom happens with boats,
particularly cheap boats. NADA publishes a one-pricebook-fits-all-
regions book.

2. There is no data to support any of the numbers in the NADA boat
book. Nothing. NADA auto books are based on auction results on the
wholesale level, with formulas applied to project retail and average
trade. There are no boat auctions.

3. NADA basic values often strip a boat down to almost nothing except
the hull and the engines, with enormous tables of options to add back
to the base price.

4. NADA books are primarily sold to 1) Brokers, who use them to
justify taking trades in very cheaply. 2) Finance companies, who use
them to demand larger down payments so that "risky" loans
collateralized by boats represent distress sale balances.

And of course the largest problem of all with NADA----- there's no
order blank in the book. If 45 out of 60 sellers of a particular
model are asking 30-100% more than NADA "high retail", there ought to
be a huge landslide of business available to anybody willing to take
the NADA price

Bringing us back to the original point, I think it may presume too
much to tell the original poster that he overpaid by 40%, and probably
more unless the boat is in bristol condition. Yes, your NADA book
supports that- but the fact that there are almost no boats for sale at
that price level and most are substantially more carries more weight
than what NADA says the market "should be".







I agree that he needs to spend a little money on a surveyor now rather
than a ton of money on unexpected repairs a couple of months from now.

Well slap my ass and call me Sally - we agree on something. *:)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 12 Mar 2007 12:54:54 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Bringing us back to the original point, I think it may presume too
much to tell the original poster that he overpaid by 40%, and probably
more unless the boat is in bristol condition. Yes, your NADA book
supports that- but the fact that there are almost no boats for sale at
that price level and most are substantially more carries more weight
than what NADA says the market "should be".

I take your points - all good ones.

However that does not negate the obvious fact that NADA book pricing
for both trade in and retail are the values used when setting boat
prices no matter where you live.

That's a fact. There may be individual market fluctuations that make
a boat's value go up or down, but on average, NADA is the book used
and thus reflects the relative value of the vessel.

The only other way to price a boat is via BUC and when I asked, the
BUC value was about 5/8% higher than NADA.

For instance:

In my zip code, my 2000 Ranger with 2000 FICHT with trailer has a low
value of 14,700 and a average value of 16,800.

For Charleston, SC, it's exactly the same number.

For Fort Lauderdale, FL it's about $500 higher on both ends.

Based on that, I would think that the boat is worth about that and
based on what I'm seeing, it is.

Now with 16,000 of new engine, to me it's worth a lot more, but I
seriously doubt that I'd get even close to 32000 if I decided to sell
it.

By the way, how did you get that search report? I can't get more than
11 boats listed.

On Mar 12, 11:28�am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 10:09:02 -0700, "Chuck Gould"





wrote:
On Mar 12, 3:42?am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 00:38:59 -0700, "brian" wrote:

i have just purchased this boat for 10,000.00 from a privet party.

You bought a boat from a shrub? :)

You've over paid for the boat by about $4,000 even if it's in perfect,
mint showroom condition. *he book says it's worth $6,000 in average
condition with average cosmetics. *ractically, looking at the various
buying guides quickly, they are averaging $5200 ask price in good
condition in my area - if 9ou can find one that is.

You could make a really decent living buying up all the perfect, mint,
showroom condition 2455 Bayliners you can find for $6000. Here is an
abbreviated list of boats currently available (from Boats.com). I'll
bet most are not in bristol shape, but you'll see the pricing trend:

Low/Average retail via NADA.

'84 24 Ciera (Huron, OH) $8900

$4260/4280

So this guy is double NADA


'87 24 Ceira (Rogers, MN) $8995

$5188/$5870


This guy is 50-70% above NADA


'88 245 (Egg Harbor, NJ) $7995

$5530/6270


This guy is 30-50% over NADA



87 2450 (Aurora, IN) $9950

$5180/5870


More than 50% over NADA



'87 2450 Ciera (St Clair Shores, MI) $9999

Same

'87 2450 (Washington, NV) $8990

Same

88 2450 Ciera (Everett, WA) $12995

$5530/6270

More than double NADA



'89 2455 (South Haven, MI) $9900

$6150/6980


50% or more over NADA


'87 2455 (New Windsor, NY) $14900 (?!)

$5180/8870


way the heck over NADA




89 2455 (Verplank, NY) $9200

$6150/6980

And so on.

The list goes on and on, but this covers the first three pages in the
exact order that the boats appeard. Out of 18 boats, only three are
listed under $7k, ( and none listed at $6k or less) while 10 are
listed at effectively $10,000 or more.

Well, I don't know how you got 18 boats because I only got eleven and
of the eleven, six were appropriately priced. *From Boats.com.


I actually got 64


http://www.boats.com/listing/cache/l...=45&Search.y=9


Almost none were as cheaply priced as NADA suggests they should be.

There are problems associated with using the NADA (National Automobile
Dealers Association) book for boat pricing.

1. Boat pricing is far more regional than auto pricing. If there is a
huge price disparity on (for example) 2002 Toyota Corrolas available
at auction in Texas and the same car available at auction in Oregon,
the car carriers start to roll and things between the cheaper place
and the more expensive and things even out. Seldom happens with boats,
particularly cheap boats. NADA publishes a one-pricebook-fits-all-
regions book.

2. There is no data to support any of the numbers in the NADA boat
book. Nothing. NADA auto books are based on auction results on the
wholesale level, with formulas applied to project retail and average
trade. There are no boat auctions.

3. NADA basic values often strip a boat down to almost nothing except
the hull and the engines, with enormous tables of options to add back
to the base price.

4. NADA books are primarily sold to 1) Brokers, who use them to
justify taking trades in very cheaply. 2) Finance companies, who use
them to demand larger down payments so that "risky" loans
collateralized by boats represent distress sale balances.

And of course the largest problem of all with NADA----- there's no
order blank in the book. If 45 out of 60 sellers of a particular
model are asking 30-100% more than NADA "high retail", there ought to
be a huge landslide of business available to anybody willing to take
the NADA price

Bringing us back to the original point, I think it may presume too
much to tell the original poster that he overpaid by 40%, and probably
more unless the boat is in bristol condition. Yes, your NADA book
supports that- but the fact that there are almost no boats for sale at
that price level and most are substantially more carries more weight
than what NADA says the market "should be".







I agree that he needs to spend a little money on a surveyor now rather
than a ton of money on unexpected repairs a couple of months from now.

Well slap my ass and call me Sally - we agree on something. *:)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

At any rate...good luck with the new boat - enjoy!

"brian" wrote:
i have just purchased this boat for 10,000.00 from a privet
party. it
has the 5.8 cobra in it and trim tabs and what not. i am
looking for
any information on this boat as to the boat itself or the
engine and
outdrive. looking for any information that i can get regarding
the
safety of this boat. and what to look out for . i am having a
mechanic
look at it first before the deal is final. just wondering if
the is
any information out there regarding this boat/engine history
that
someone can help me with. it would be most apprecitated. this
is our
first BIG boat. we just upgraded from a 1850 bayliner 1999.
and used
the money to get this bigger one for the family and friends.
camping
and fun. also know what the top speed is on this as well. 351.
thanks
for any information you can provide. brian