Because the State of Florida requires that a boat be registered in
*some* state
to be used on Florida waterways, the watercop is simply doing his job
when he cites a boat that has no registration from any state.

The state of FL has no right to require other states to do anything.
If they want to get horsey about it, I imagine the other states on the
Gulf Coast should reciprocate and immeditely ticket any FL boater that
enters their water without a registration in their state. Most states
recognize transients and welcome them and their $$. This cop is simply
writing tickets to non-locals, knowing that 99% of them will just pay
the fine, rather than returning later (possibly multiple times) to go
to court to fight it. It's just another form of piracy.


Your auto argument is moot, since every state require auto
registration and plates. Again, this guy would give you a ticket just
because you had an out-of-state plate. Same thing he's doing to boats.
A few more comments by others:
__________________________________________________ ___--
Here's the deal. The law is the law. When different municipalities
or
different officers are allowed to interpret the same law differently,
chaos
ensues. That's the problem that we have in Florida right now
regarding the
anchorage law snafu. Some municipalities seem to think that they are
above
the law and have decided to go their own way regardless of what the
State Law
says. I fully support the state's right to collect a use tax after 90
days
but that's not what this guy is doing. He is making it up as he
goes. As the
good old boys say, "taint right".
__________________________________________________ __-
Wait, let me get this straight:
We own a documented boat which is also registered in Maryland. We
travel to Florida, and find ourselves in lovely Venice.
This guy boards our boat and gives us a warning ticket because we
MIGHT be staying in Florida for more than 90 days.
(Or does he give us a regular ticket because we MIGHT be staying in
Florida over the 90 days?)
In either event he makes us very aware, either subtly or not so
subtly, of the badge, and his power, and authority, which as a law-
abiding citizen has never happened to me before because I've always
had a good relationship with police of any sort. I feel guilty, even
though I'm not. I feel persecuted. I feel bad. I don't NEED to be
there.

In fact if I have this straight then we certainly have no reason to go
to lovely Venice in the first place, do we.

Too bad.
__________________________________________________ ___
Just for grins I went on the web site for the Florida Wildlife
Commission.
There is an ask it section where you can post a question about
vessel
registration. Maybe the folks in Venice, FL. should go to
Myflorida.com
and read what it says. Maybe reading the FWC web site should become
part of their training.

It clearly states the 90 day rule for visiting boaters. Of course
this doesn't
mean that this officer has to stop acting like a jerk. He can still
stop vessels
and harass cruisers from out of state.

What I find hard to believe is he has kept his job for 26 years.
Must be related
to, or has pictures on someone that has the power to make sure he
doesn't
loose his job.
__________________________________________________ ________
Not to mention dozens of "I just won't stop there any more" comments.
HIt 'em in the pocketbook.

On Mar 8, 7:42?am, "Keith" wrote:
Because the State of Florida requires that a boat be registered in
*some* state
to be used on Florida waterways, the watercop is simply doing his job
when he cites a boat that has no registration from any state.

The state of FL has no right to require other states to do anything.

Nor are they trying to make any other states do anything.

If you want to use a boat in Florida, the Florida law says it must be
registered in some state. If none of the other 49 states wanted to
register boats, Florida would not have the power to require them to do
so.

People who bring boats to Florida from states where there is no
registration of boats or where it is considered "optional" are
informed about the Florida law, let off with a warning, and told they
have 2-weeks to finish up their visit to Florida *or* apply for a
registration.

Yes, yes, yes, the guy is a jerk. No doubt. But charges that he is
ticketing people for operating "completely legal" do not appear to be
true. Completely legal in one state isn't always completely legal in
another.Example: for a long time, the drinking age in Idaho was 19
while it was 21 in Washington. If a cop caught a 19 year old kid
chugging a beer in a Washington State Park, the defense "but I'm a
resident of Idaho" wouldn't fly at all. Nobody gets a pass from
obeying the law in one state simply because the law in their home
state is different.

Heck, same with fish and game laws. If you can keep a limit of 20
Xfish in Georgia but the state limit is only 12 Xfish in Florida,
nobody would argue that they should be allowed to keep 20 Xfish while
in Florida because he or she was a legal resident of Georgia.

On 8 Mar 2007 17:25:34 -0800, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

People who bring boats to Florida from states where there is no
registration of boats or where it is considered "optional" are
informed about the Florida law, let off with a warning, and told they
have 2-weeks to finish up their visit to Florida *or* apply for a
registration.

There's the crux of the matter.

A warning implies that one has broken a law and the law enforcement
option is to issue a warning so that one doesn't (1) do it again or is
notified that a problem exists and needs correction.

What this guy is doing is judging intent ahead of time - if the
reports are as stated. He can't do that - in fact, a case could be
made for profiling if he does this on a regular basis. I'm surprised
that somebody hasn't done so.

It's a question of intent. He has the right to stop a vessel and ask,
but if the owner presents documents that indicate it is owned by a
person whose state of residence doesn't require registration or
visible evidence of registration, he does not have the right to issue
a warning for a law that has not been broken.

A warning is an official law enforcement document - law enforcement
officers and adminsitrations track warnings issued. In this case, to
issue a warning, he would have to be able to prove that the vessel has
been in Florida waters for longer than two weeks - which would be
impossible to prove. He can't issue a warning for less than two weeks
because no law has been broken.

On Mar 8, 5:43�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 8 Mar 2007 17:25:34 -0800, "Chuck Gould"

wrote:
People who bring boats to Florida from states where there is no
registration of boats or where it is considered "optional" are
informed about the Florida law, let off with a warning, and told they
have 2-weeks to finish up their visit to Florida *or* apply for a
registration.

There's the crux of the matter.

A warning implies that one has broken a law and the law enforcement
option is to issue a warning so that one doesn't (1) do it again or is
notified that a problem exists and needs correction.


Yes, indeed. I agree completely. The Florida State Law says that to
operate a boat on the waterways in Florida it must have a valid
registration in *some* state. (There is no need to get a FLA
registration unless operating more than 90 days at a time or more than
181 days per year).

People who operate unregistered boats in Florida have indeed broken a
Florida State Law, even if the operation of a boat without a
registration happens to be legal in whatever state they normally live
in. The two week grace period is for people who have been given a
warning ticket- but the offense occurs the first moment that an
unregistered boat is operated.

It's a simple as a speed limit, really. If I live in a state where the
speed limit is 70 and get hauled over for doing 65 mph in some state
where the limit is 55, the fact that where I come from the limit is 70
mph won't get too far off the ground in front of any judge in the
country.

People operating unregistered boats are in violation of Florida State
Law. The purpose of the warning is to call that fact to their
attention and alert them that they need to address the problem or get
out of state within two weeks.






What this guy is doing is judging intent ahead of time - if the
reports are as stated. *He can't do that - in fact, a case could be
made for profiling if he does this on a regular basis. *I'm surprised
that somebody hasn't done so.

It's a question of intent. *He has the right to stop a vessel and ask,
but if the owner presents documents that indicate it is owned by a
person whose state of residence doesn't require registration or
visible evidence of registration, he does not have the right to issue
a warning for a law that has not been broken.

A warning is an official law enforcement document - law enforcement
officers and adminsitrations track warnings issued. *In this case, to
issue a warning, he would have to be able to prove that the vessel has
been in Florida waters for longer than two weeks - which would be
impossible to prove. *He can't issue a warning for less than two weeks
because no law has been broken.

No, I think you misread the news article. The citable offense is
operating the unregistered boat in Florida *at all*, not operating it
there for more than two weeks. Once the warning has been issued, the
violator then has two weeks to correct the situation or get out of
state. If a warning has been issued and the same guy gets caught 2
weeks later, he won't get another warning- he'll get the full meal
deal.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
:

On 8 Mar 2007 17:25:34 -0800, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

People who bring boats to Florida from states where there is no
registration of boats or where it is considered "optional" are
informed about the Florida law, let off with a warning, and told they
have 2-weeks to finish up their visit to Florida *or* apply for a
registration.

There's the crux of the matter.

A warning implies that one has broken a law and the law enforcement
option is to issue a warning so that one doesn't (1) do it again or is
notified that a problem exists and needs correction.

What this guy is doing is judging intent ahead of time - if the
reports are as stated. He can't do that - in fact, a case could be
made for profiling if he does this on a regular basis. I'm surprised
that somebody hasn't done so.

It's a question of intent. He has the right to stop a vessel and ask,
but if the owner presents documents that indicate it is owned by a
person whose state of residence doesn't require registration or
visible evidence of registration, he does not have the right to issue
a warning for a law that has not been broken.

A warning is an official law enforcement document - law enforcement
officers and adminsitrations track warnings issued. In this case, to
issue a warning, he would have to be able to prove that the vessel has
been in Florida waters for longer than two weeks - which would be
impossible to prove. He can't issue a warning for less than two weeks
because no law has been broken.

Exactly right. And contrary to earlier posts, Florida does NOT have the
right to regulate registration of transient boats in any way it chooses.
Boats from other states are travelling in interstate commerce. Our
constitution does not let individual states inhibit or overly burden
interstate commerce. That's why they HAVE to have the two week "grace
period" and a 90 day period for use tax payments. After those periods,
it's considered that they aren't travelling any more, but are there to
stay, at least for the time being. But if you're just travelling through
for one day, Florida couldn't make you register even if it wanted to.

What this bad cop does, is assume that any unregistered boat is violating
the law and been there more than two weeks. I don't think that's probable
cause and in any other case would subject this bad cop to a civil rights
lawsuit. Somehow in the maritime world we're deemed to give up our civil
rights and can be borded anytime anywhere without cause. Still doesn't
give him the right to write bogus "warnings" or to detain people and
force them to listen to his inane lectures. If I was properly registered,
knowing I committed no violation, and on land (like the couple in the
article) I would simply get up and walk away. Let him arrest me. I'll own
the town.

On Mar 8, 8:34�pm, akheel wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote :





On 8 Mar 2007 17:25:34 -0800, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

People who bring boats to Florida from states where there is no
registration of boats or where it is considered "optional" are
informed about the Florida law, let off with a warning, and told they
have 2-weeks to finish up their visit to Florida *or* apply for a
registration.

There's the crux of the matter.

A warning implies that one has broken a law and the law enforcement
option is to issue a warning so that one doesn't (1) do it again or is
notified that a problem exists and needs correction.

What this guy is doing is judging intent ahead of time - if the
reports are as stated. *He can't do that - in fact, a case could be
made for profiling if he does this on a regular basis. *I'm surprised
that somebody hasn't done so.

It's a question of intent. *He has the right to stop a vessel and ask,
but if the owner presents documents that indicate it is owned by a
person whose state of residence doesn't require registration or
visible evidence of registration, he does not have the right to issue
a warning for a law that has not been broken.

A warning is an official law enforcement document - law enforcement
officers and adminsitrations track warnings issued. *In this case, to
issue a warning, he would have to be able to prove that the vessel has
been in Florida waters for longer than two weeks - which would be
impossible to prove. *He can't issue a warning for less than two weeks
because no law has been broken.

Exactly right. And contrary to earlier posts, Florida does NOT have the
right to regulate registration of transient boats in any way it chooses.
Boats from other states are travelling in interstate commerce.


Only if they're enroute to a dealer. See the State of Florida website.




Our
constitution does not let individual states inhibit or overly burden
interstate commerce.


Has nothing to do with interstate commerce. If I am operating my
private vessel or vehicle, I'm not conducting interstate commerce. You
want to talk about a cruise ship or a charter boat bringing people in
from out of state, that would be interstate commerce. Hauling a boat
on a trailer, from a factory to a dealer, is also interstate commerce
and the cargo doesn't need to be licensed.

You must have never done any trucking. I'm going to assume this hasn't
changed in the last zillion years (and even if it has the constitution
hasn't), and you will find "pro-rate" plates on tractors and trailers
all the time. Even when engaged in interstate commerce, various states
can and do exact a license or permit fee from rigs that are in that
state only a portion of the time. Interstate commerce- licensed or
taxed by the state. Happens all the time.



That's why they HAVE to have the two week "grace
period" and a 90 day period for use tax payments.


You didn't read the article carefully, either. According to the
newspaper account, there is no "two week grace period". You're in
violation on minute one, day one. The warning tickets give you two
weeks to get into compliance with the law or get out of state, but you
aren't somehow "legal" if you've been there less than 2 weeks.




After those periods,
it's considered that they aren't travelling any more, but are there to
stay, at least for the time being. But if you're just travelling through
for one day, Florida couldn't make you register even if it wanted to.




What this bad cop does, is assume that any unregistered boat is violating
the law and been there more than two weeks.

No, what this admittedly bad cop does is recognize that any
unregistered boat is violating the law the minute it gets wet in
Florida. He passes out warning tickets that allow two weeks to get the
problem resolved.



I don't think that's probable
cause and in any other case would subject this bad cop to a civil rights
lawsuit. Somehow in the maritime world we're deemed to give up our civil
rights and can be borded anytime anywhere without cause.

Still doesn't
give him the right to write bogus "warnings"



No, he should not write bogus warnings- only warnings to people
operating a boat that doesn't carry registration from some state.

or to detain people and
force them to listen to his inane lectures.

Agreed. He should do his job without lecturing anybody.




If I was properly registered,
knowing I committed no violation, and on land (like the couple in the
article) I would simply get up and walk away. Let him arrest me. I'll own
the town.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 8 Mar 2007 21:02:15 -0800, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

You must have never done any trucking. I'm going to assume this hasn't
changed in the last zillion years (and even if it has the constitution
hasn't), and you will find "pro-rate" plates on tractors and trailers
all the time. Even when engaged in interstate commerce, various states
can and do exact a license or permit fee from rigs that are in that
state only a portion of the time. Interstate commerce- licensed or
taxed by the state. Happens all the time.

Well I have and you are correct - but that's because it is Interstate
Commerce and use taxes are pro-rated base on mileage. There is also a
fuel thing, but it's been a long time since I've done any truck
driving.

In this case, it's private recreational use and thus subject to
criminal laws, not commercial laws. A warning is still a misdemeanor.

That's why they HAVE to have the two week "grace
period" and a 90 day period for use tax payments.

You didn't read the article carefully, either. According to the
newspaper account, there is no "two week grace period". You're in
violation on minute one, day one. The warning tickets give you two
weeks to get into compliance with the law or get out of state, but you
aren't somehow "legal" if you've been there less than 2 weeks.

I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. The only way that I can
think of where Florida can "demand" a registration is if they are not
signatories to registration reciprocity which I don't think is the
case. For example, New Hampshire does not have reciprocity with other
states for marine registration. Thus, you have to obtain a New
Hampshire non-resident registration for your boat if you plan to use
your boat privately in New Hampshire. Even at that, there is a time
limit - like a few days or maybe like 5 days or more - something like
that. That may have changed too - I'm going remembering here and I am
getting old.

I believe that Florida does reciprocate with registrations and honors
my CT registration if I go to Florida for a month of fishing. Now if
that is true and they honor the registration policies and procedures
of other states for transient use, then it follows that if an owner
who lives and normally operates his boat in a state that does not
require visible registration or even registration period is perfectly
legal in Florida waters up until they pass the 90 day period at which
time they are in violation of Florida law.

In effect, issuing a warning - a misdemeanor - for potentially
violating a law is not accepted law enforcement practice. To put it
another way, the officer in question is issuing warnings for
potentially violating a law when he has no knowledge that the law will
be broken. He can only issue a warning at his discretion if the law
HAS been broken.

On Mar 9, 3:50�am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


I believe that Florida does reciprocate with registrations and honors
my CT registration if I go to Florida for a month of fishing. *Now if
that is true and they honor the registration policies and procedures
of other states for transient use, then it follows that if an owner
who lives and normally operates his boat in a state that does not
require visible registration or even registration period is perfectly
legal in Florida waters up until they pass the 90 day period at which
time they are in violation of Florida law.


Shortwave, there's a difference between reciprocity of registration
and reciprocity of "no registration required". You're 100% right, your
CT registration will be honored in Florida. In fact, you can boat in
Florida for a full 90 consecutive days on your CT sticker, or up to a
total of 180 days per year.

Florida requires all watercraft on the waters of its state to be
registered. So does Washington (unless it's an unpowered skiff or
sailing dinghy) for that matter, and so do a probable majority of
states. You are considered to be in compliance in Florida if your boat
has a current registration from any state, and it will be honored. If
you come from a state that doesn't require boats to be registered, you
get a warning ticket to (as you precisely stated) "inform you about
the law". Florida is no more required to reciprocate a *lack* of
regulation than it would be to allow people from California, Oregon,
or Washington to carry small amounts of medical marijuana for personal
use while vacationing at Disney World. Coming from a state where an
activity isn't regulated has never meant that you can conduct that
activity without any regulation when visiting another state that
chooses to regulate it.

This cop is a jerk, no dobut. But if he is writing warning tickets to
out of state boaters with no registrations, he's not, as has been
claimed, ticketing people who are "totally legal". Something "totally
legal" in (say) Nebraska, Kansas, or Alabama doesn't have to be legal
in Florida- and that would include running a boat without a
registration.

Florida is a sovereign state with every right to control or regulate
activities within its own borders. If the state requires that all
watercraft have a state registration of some sort, then boaters from
states without registration need to stay out of Florida, apply for a
Florida registration, or put up with getting warning tickets that
carry a two-week window of opportunity to get a registration or remove
the boat from Florida. If the law is unpopular with the residents of
Florida, then they should lobby their state assembly or legislature to
amend or repeal it.

It does sound like the cop is annoying as hell, but he's enforcing a
valid law.





In effect, issuing a warning - a misdemeanor - for potentially
violating a law is not accepted law enforcement practice. *To put it
another way, the officer in question is issuing warnings for
potentially violating a law when he has no knowledge that the law will
be broken. He can only issue a warning at his discretion if the law
HAS been broken.

And if a boat is operating in Florida without a registration from
either Florida or some other state, a law has been broken.