"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
news:bbKyh.2321

The alcohol gone - water remaining & freezing idea seems the most
plausible at this point.


Water and water vapor is an interesting and complex subject. I spent the
better part of my career dealing with their effects and properties in
reduced pressure (vacuum chambers) vessels. Water vapor does not follow
natural gas laws and is the bane of those of us trying to create high
vacuum environments (equal to 200-300 miles in space) here on earth.

Place a cup of water in a large vacuum system and begin to remove the air,
reducing the atmospheric pressure. The water will quickly freeze at the
reduced pressure. Continue to reduce the pressure and the block of ice
will suddenly start to rapidly boil ... in the blink of an eye. Continue
to reduce the pressure and it will suddenly freeze again and begin to
sublimate (goes from solid to vapor without becoming a solid).

All of this happens at what range of temperatures? When you're reducing the
air pressure, the temp is remaining fairly constant?




It also has weird properties when it condenses. Picture a snowflake with
all of it's points. Each point becomes a nucleation site for the next bit
of water vapor. Enough of them and they form an insulating lay whereby no
further nucleation takes place. That's why you don't get 3 inches of
frost on your windshield. The process stops once the outer surface is
insulated sufficiently from the cold glass where the initial nucleation
took place.

Eisboch

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

to reduce the pressure and it will suddenly freeze again and begin to
sublimate (goes from solid to vapor without becoming a solid).



All of this happens at what range of temperatures? When you're reducing
the air pressure, the temp is remaining fairly constant?


As the pressure is reduced, the only temperature left is that remaining in
the water, (aside from any radiant energy). As pressure is reduced, the
vapor pressure changes. Often, high intensity quartz lamps or UV emitters
are used to add energy to the remaining water molecules to excite them to a
state where they can be removed or captured by the vacuum pumps. Otherwise
they cling to the vacuum chamber walls and will slowly sublimate for hours
or days.

Think of your car's radiator. The pressure cap allows the cooling system to
operate at a higher barometric pressure than at atmosphere, raising the
boiling point of water. The opposite happens in the vacuum chambers. To a
less obvious degree, the normal barometric pressure variations at atmosphere
affects dew points, etc. for a given temperature.

BTW ... in my partial sentence quoted above about sublimation ... I meant to
say "goes from solid to vapor without becoming a liquid".

Eisboch

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

to reduce the pressure and it will suddenly freeze again and begin to
sublimate (goes from solid to vapor without becoming a solid).



All of this happens at what range of temperatures? When you're reducing
the air pressure, the temp is remaining fairly constant?


As the pressure is reduced, the only temperature left is that remaining in
the water, (aside from any radiant energy). As pressure is reduced, the
vapor pressure changes. Often, high intensity quartz lamps or UV emitters
are used to add energy to the remaining water molecules to excite them to
a state where they can be removed or captured by the vacuum pumps.
Otherwise they cling to the vacuum chamber walls and will slowly sublimate
for hours or days.

Think of your car's radiator. The pressure cap allows the cooling system
to operate at a higher barometric pressure than at atmosphere, raising the
boiling point of water. The opposite happens in the vacuum chambers. To
a less obvious degree, the normal barometric pressure variations at
atmosphere affects dew points, etc. for a given temperature.

BTW ... in my partial sentence quoted above about sublimation ... I meant
to say "goes from solid to vapor without becoming a liquid".

Eisboch



Well anyway, it appears I've gone beyond my streak of good luck with
windshield fluid. 35 years of driving in frigid climates, and never a
problem until now, when I get not just one, but two products in a row made
by idiots or liars. The stuff's frozen in the tank, at 14 degrees F.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


Well anyway, it appears I've gone beyond my streak of good luck with
windshield fluid. 35 years of driving in frigid climates, and never a
problem until now, when I get not just one, but two products in a row made
by idiots or liars. The stuff's frozen in the tank, at 14 degrees F.


Well just think. Now, armed with your newly acquired knowledge, sue 'em!

Eisboch

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


Well anyway, it appears I've gone beyond my streak of good luck with
windshield fluid. 35 years of driving in frigid climates, and never a
problem until now, when I get not just one, but two products in a row
made by idiots or liars. The stuff's frozen in the tank, at 14 degrees F.


Well just think. Now, armed with your newly acquired knowledge, sue 'em!

Eisboch


The supermarket's been informed. Knowing Wegman's, they'll pull it from the
shelves pretty quickly.

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


Well anyway, it appears I've gone beyond my streak of good luck with
windshield fluid. 35 years of driving in frigid climates, and never a
problem until now, when I get not just one, but two products in a row
made by idiots or liars. The stuff's frozen in the tank, at 14 degrees F.


Well just think. Now, armed with your newly acquired knowledge, sue 'em!

Eisboch



Response from son's physics teacher: "Thermodynamics isn't my strong suit.
I'm consulting someone smarter than I am on the subject, and will get back
to you shortly".

At least he's honest. But, this is why my son insisted on finding a tutor
last year, when his curiosity went beyond what the teacher could explain.
:-( and :-), both.

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 20:16:16 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



Well anyway, it appears I've gone beyond my streak of good luck with
windshield fluid. 35 years of driving in frigid climates, and never a
problem until now, when I get not just one, but two products in a row made
by idiots or liars. The stuff's frozen in the tank, at 14 degrees F.

I wonder if that might crack the tank, rupture the hoses, and fracture
the plastic spray nozzles as we speak. Nah.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 20:16:16 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



Well anyway, it appears I've gone beyond my streak of good luck with
windshield fluid. 35 years of driving in frigid climates, and never a
problem until now, when I get not just one, but two products in a row made
by idiots or liars. The stuff's frozen in the tank, at 14 degrees F.

I wonder if that might crack the tank, rupture the hoses, and fracture
the plastic spray nozzles as we speak. Nah.

--Vic

That would be fun.

On Feb 8, 2:16 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"RCE" wrote in message

...







"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
om...

to reduce the pressure and it will suddenly freeze again and begin to
sublimate (goes from solid to vapor without becoming a solid).

All of this happens at what range of temperatures? When you're reducing
the air pressure, the temp is remaining fairly constant?

As the pressure is reduced, the only temperature left is that remaining in
the water, (aside from any radiant energy). As pressure is reduced, the
vapor pressure changes. Often, high intensity quartz lamps or UV emitters
are used to add energy to the remaining water molecules to excite them to
a state where they can be removed or captured by the vacuum pumps.
Otherwise they cling to the vacuum chamber walls and will slowly sublimate
for hours or days.

Think of your car's radiator. The pressure cap allows the cooling system
to operate at a higher barometric pressure than at atmosphere, raising the
boiling point of water. The opposite happens in the vacuum chambers. To
a less obvious degree, the normal barometric pressure variations at
atmosphere affects dew points, etc. for a given temperature.

BTW ... in my partial sentence quoted above about sublimation ... I meant
to say "goes from solid to vapor without becoming a liquid".

Eisboch

Well anyway, it appears I've gone beyond my streak of good luck with
windshield fluid. 35 years of driving in frigid climates, and never a
problem until now, when I get not just one, but two products in a row made
by idiots or liars. The stuff's frozen in the tank, at 14 degrees F.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I wonder if you got some extraneous water in the fluid tank?

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 8, 2:16 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"RCE" wrote in message

...







"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
om...

to reduce the pressure and it will suddenly freeze again and begin
to
sublimate (goes from solid to vapor without becoming a solid).

All of this happens at what range of temperatures? When you're
reducing
the air pressure, the temp is remaining fairly constant?

As the pressure is reduced, the only temperature left is that remaining
in
the water, (aside from any radiant energy). As pressure is reduced,
the
vapor pressure changes. Often, high intensity quartz lamps or UV
emitters
are used to add energy to the remaining water molecules to excite them
to
a state where they can be removed or captured by the vacuum pumps.
Otherwise they cling to the vacuum chamber walls and will slowly
sublimate
for hours or days.

Think of your car's radiator. The pressure cap allows the cooling
system
to operate at a higher barometric pressure than at atmosphere, raising
the
boiling point of water. The opposite happens in the vacuum chambers.
To
a less obvious degree, the normal barometric pressure variations at
atmosphere affects dew points, etc. for a given temperature.

BTW ... in my partial sentence quoted above about sublimation ... I
meant
to say "goes from solid to vapor without becoming a liquid".

Eisboch

Well anyway, it appears I've gone beyond my streak of good luck with
windshield fluid. 35 years of driving in frigid climates, and never a
problem until now, when I get not just one, but two products in a row
made
by idiots or liars. The stuff's frozen in the tank, at 14 degrees F.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I wonder if you got some extraneous water in the fluid tank?


Who the hell knows. The tank isn't in plain sight. It's below a bunch of
other crap, and only the spout comes to the top of the engine compartment.
So, it's far from any heat source. And, the entire bottom of the truck is
encrusted with frozen crud. I'll deal with it when I get tires next week.
Have it washed, go straight to the mechanic's, figure it out there. Bring
some name brand fluid (ha ha), drain the tank, start from scratch.

Good mechanic. He likes customers in the shop, as long as talk about fishing
and don't get in his way.