Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:23:13 -0700, "Iconoclast"
wrote:

A bit of diversity training ought to fix things. No problemo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/us...gewanted=print

January 17, 2007
A City’s Violence Feeds on Black-Hispanic Rivalry
By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD
LOS ANGELES, Jan. 16 — The Latino gang members were looking for a black
person, any black person, to shoot, the police said, and they found one.
Cheryl Green, perched near her scooter chatting with friends, was shot dead
in a spray of bullets that left several other young people injured.

She was 14, an eighth grader who loved junk food and watching Court TV with
her mother and had recently written a poem beginning: “I am black and
beautiful. I wonder how I will be living in the future.”

“I never thought something like this could happen here in L.A.,” said her
mother, Charlene Lovett, fighting tears.

Cheryl’s killing last month, which the police said followed a confrontation
between the gang members and a black man, stands out in a wave of
bias-related attacks and incidents in a city that promotes its diversity as
much as frets over it.

Ethnic and racial tension comes to Los Angeles as regularly as the Santa Ana
winds. Race-related fights afflict school campuses and jails, and two major
riots, in 1965 and 1992, are hardly forgotten. But civil rights advocates
say that the violence grew at an alarming rate last year, continuing a trend
of more Latino versus black confrontations and prompting street
demonstrations and long discussions on talk-radio programs and in community
meetings.

Much of the violence springs from rivalries between black and Latino gangs,
especially in neighborhoods where the black population has been declining
and the Latino population surging. A 14 percent increase in gang crime last
year, at a time when overall violent crime was down, has been attributed in
good measure to the interracial conflict.

This month, the authorities reported that crimes in the city motivated by
racial, religious or sexual orientation discrimination had increased 34
percent in 2005 over the previous year. Statistics for 2006 have not yet
been compiled.

Rabbi Allen Freehling, executive director of the Los Angeles Human Relations
Commission, a group created after the 1965 riots, said the recent growth in
hate crimes reflected a failure by government and community leaders to
prepare residents for socioeconomic changes in many neighborhoods, “and
therefore people have a tendency to lash out, out of desperation.”

In November, three Latino gang members received sentences of life in federal
prison for crimes that included the murder of two black men — one waiting
for a bus, another searching for a parking spot — and assaults on others in
a conspiracy to intimidate black residents of a northeast Los Angeles
neighborhood.

In another case, a twist on past racial dramas, 10 black youths, some of
whom prosecutors say had connections to a gang, are on trial for what
prosecutors contend was a racially motivated attack in neighboring Long
Beach on three young white women who were visiting a haunted house on
Halloween. Long Beach also experienced an increase in hate crimes in 2005.

But even with the alarm caused by the recent increase in bias crimes,
Constance L. Rice, a veteran civil rights lawyer, said that, considering Los
Angeles’s diversity, race relations remained relatively calm and were even
marked by many examples of groups getting along.

Still, in several corners of the city, particularly where poverty is high
and demographics are shifting, tensions have been flaring.

“You don’t find entire segments of the city against one another,” Ms. Rice
said, “but in the hot spots and areas of friction you find it is because the
demographics are in transition and there is an assertion of power by one
group or the other and you get friction.”

In Harbor Gateway, the neighborhood where Cheryl Green was killed, tension
had grown so severe that blacks and Latinos formed a dividing line on a
street that both sides understood never to cross and a small market was
unofficially declared off-limits to blacks. Ms. Lovett had warned her
children not to go near the line, 206th Street, but Cheryl had ridden her
scooter near it to talk to friends when she was shot.

Neighbors said the dominant 204th Street gang, which is Latino, had harassed
blacks and Latinos alike and effectively kept the groups divided, though
language and cultural differences also have contributed to segregation.

“We wave hello, but I cannot really talk to blacks because my English is
limited and I don’t want to mess with the gang,” said Armando Lopez,
speaking in Spanish, who lives near where Cheryl was shot.

A man who described himself as a former member of the 204th Street gang said
black gang members had shot or assaulted Latinos, too, and explained the
violence as a deadly tit-for-tat.

“They shot a Mexican guy right around the corner from here and nobody
protested or said anything,” said the man, who asked that his name not be
used for fear of retaliation. He referred to neighborhood speculation that
Cheryl’s killing was in retaliation for the killing of Arturo Mercado, a
Latino shot to death in the neighborhood a week before Cheryl in what the
police call an unexplained shooting.

The violence in that neighborhood and others has prompted a flurry of
announcements by Mayor Antonio R. Villaraigosa and police officials
promising a renewed crackdown on gangs, particularly those responsible for
hate-related crimes. Mr. Villaraigosa plans to meet Friday with Robert S.
Mueller III, the director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, about
expanding its assistance in investigating gang and hate-related violence;
the agency has been working with the police on such investigations in the
San Fernando Valley, where gang violence has increased the most.

Chief William J. Bratton has said the Police Department would soon issue a
most-wanted list of the city’s 10 to 20 worst gangs, with those most active
in hate crimes likely to land on it.

“It’s to say, ‘We’re coming after you,’ ” Mr. Bratton said.

A city-financed report by Ms. Rice released Friday said Los Angeles needed a
“Marshall plan” to address gang violence in light of a growth in gang
membership and a lack of a comprehensive strategy to curb the problem.

Despite the spike in hate crimes in 2005, the total number of bias-related
incidents in Los Angeles, 333 in a city of 3.8 million people, was down from
peaks in violent crime in the mid-1990s and just after the Sept. 11 attacks.

Cheryl Green’s killing particularly alarmed community and civil rights
advocates because of her age and the indication that the neighborhood’s long
history of racial violence was continuing. Two Latino gang members have been
charged with murder in the case. With the district attorney having filed a
formal allegation that the men were motivated by hate, they could be
eligible for the death penalty or life in prison without parole if
convicted.

Mr. Villaraigosa, the city’s first Latino mayor in over a century, was
elected in 2005 in part on a promise of keeping peace among racial and
ethnic groups. He attended a rally in the Harbor Gateway neighborhood
Saturday, one of a few demonstrations calling for unity. He hugged Ms.
Lovett and Beatriz Villa, the sister-in-law of Mr. Mercado, the Latino
killed earlier.

“Our cultural and ethnic diversity are cornerstones of a strong L.A.,” the
mayor said Friday, “and violent crime motivated by the victim’s skin color
will not be tolerated.”

Earl Ofari Hutchinson, an African-American syndicated columnist who plays
host to the Los Angeles Urban Policy Roundtable, a weekly gathering in the
Leimert Park neighborhood of South Los Angeles, said blacks complained that
illegal Latin American immigrants were stealing jobs. Latinos, particularly
newcomers unaccustomed to living among large numbers of African-Americans,
in turn accuse blacks of criminal activity and harassing them.

“I think L.A. is a microcosm of what could happen in big cities in the
future,” Mr. Hutchinson said. “When we have the kind of tension you see in
L.A. in the schools, the workplace and now hate-crime violence, my great
concern is this is a horrific view of what could happen in other cities.”

Ms. Lovett, Cheryl’s mother, said the family moved to Harbor Gateway six
years ago to get away from a high-crime neighborhood in another part of Los
Angeles. A relative of a black neighbor was shot by the gang a few years
ago, she said, and recently she had begun looking for a safer area.

“I feel it is unfortunate my daughter had to be the sacrificial lamb,” she
said. “But I just hope there is a change in this neighborhood.”

A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

wrote in message
...


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max

Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max

Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?


Hey Doug...haven't we put up with enough **** because of your cross posting
antics?
--
******************************************
***** Have a super day! *****
******************************************

John H

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

JohnH wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max

Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?


Hey Doug...haven't we put up with enough **** because of your cross posting
antics?

I challange you to accept personal responsibility to be an on topic
poster here and not a liability to the newsgroup.

Hey, Doug Kanter
 

If you're going to engage these idiots in debate, or if you happen to
agree with them, (whatever),
would it be all that tough to delete rec.boats from your list of "post
to" groups?

Been boating lately?

Hey, Doug Kanter
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
s.com...
If you're going to engage these idiots in debate, or if you happen to
agree with them, (whatever),
would it be all that tough to delete rec.boats from your list of "post
to" groups?

Been boating lately?


Two weeks ago, Chuck. Caught about 40 perch, took home 30. Delicious. How
about you?

Hey, Doug Kanter
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
s.com...
If you're going to engage these idiots in debate, or if you happen to
agree with them, (whatever),
would it be all that tough to delete rec.boats from your list of "post
to" groups?

Been boating lately?


Two weeks ago, Chuck. Caught about 40 perch, took home 30. Delicious. How
about you?

It' been almost a month. Bad weather and family obligations. Hope to
get out this weekend, and the forecast looks favorable so far. I think
we traded winters this year- you guys have 50-60 degree temps back
there, we've had long stretches of temps below freezing and gale force
winds for sustained periods 2-3 times within the last few weeks.

The next big cruising oppotunity for you guys back east is going to be
Greenland. Item on AP this morning says that they can't redraw the maps
fast enough to keep up with the shrinking glaciers, and as the ice
disappears there are a lot of new islands being discovered. Geographers
are literally having a field day, exploring and mapping these chunks of
ground that have always been surrounded and overwhelmed by ice. Won't
be long before recreational cruisers take advantage of all the newly
available waterways. :-)

Hey, Doug Kanter
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
s.com...
If you're going to engage these idiots in debate, or if you happen to
agree with them, (whatever),
would it be all that tough to delete rec.boats from your list of "post
to" groups?

Been boating lately?


Two weeks ago, Chuck. Caught about 40 perch, took home 30. Delicious. How
about you?

It' been almost a month. Bad weather and family obligations. Hope to
get out this weekend, and the forecast looks favorable so far. I think
we traded winters this year- you guys have 50-60 degree temps back
there, we've had long stretches of temps below freezing and gale force
winds for sustained periods 2-3 times within the last few weeks.

The next big cruising oppotunity for you guys back east is going to be
Greenland. Item on AP this morning says that they can't redraw the maps
fast enough to keep up with the shrinking glaciers, and as the ice
disappears there are a lot of new islands being discovered. Geographers
are literally having a field day, exploring and mapping these chunks of
ground that have always been surrounded and overwhelmed by ice. Won't
be long before recreational cruisers take advantage of all the newly
available waterways. :-)


Actually, we're finally down into the 20s. I draw the line at 30 degrees, at
least for going out in the boat. I'll still wade trout streams, though.

Hey, Doug Kanter
 

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:49:24 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ps.com...
If you're going to engage these idiots in debate, or if you happen to
agree with them, (whatever),
would it be all that tough to delete rec.boats from your list of "post
to" groups?

Been boating lately?


Two weeks ago, Chuck. Caught about 40 perch, took home 30. Delicious. How
about you?


Thanks for not crossposting this one, Doug!
--
******************************************
***** Have a super day! *****
******************************************

John H

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:26:00 GMT, Tom Francis
wrote:

On 17 Jan 2007 07:34:05 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


JohnH wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max

Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?


Hey Doug...haven't we put up with enough **** because of your cross posting
antics?

I challange you to accept personal responsibility to be an on topic
poster here and not a liability to the newsgroup.

This couldn't possibly be Basskisser - got to be an imposter. :)

'challange' ?

Either basskisser or Don White.
--
******************************************
***** Have a super day! *****
******************************************

John H

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

"Tom Francis" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max

Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?

I have direct Native American ancestors on both sides of my family,
one within two generations. Which legally allows me to claim Native
American status.

So with that in mind...

EVERYBODY GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!

Is that your Casino up thar on the hill? What will become of it when we all
leave for happier hunting grounds.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Tom Francis wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max

Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?

I have direct Native American ancestors on both sides of my family,
one within two generations. Which legally allows me to claim Native
American status.

So with that in mind...

EVERYBODY GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!

So you're 100% Native American? And where did those Native Americans
come from?

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

JohnH wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:26:00 GMT, Tom Francis
wrote:

On 17 Jan 2007 07:34:05 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


JohnH wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max

Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?


Hey Doug...haven't we put up with enough **** because of your cross posting
antics?

I challange you to accept personal responsibility to be an on topic
poster here and not a liability to the newsgroup.

This couldn't possibly be Basskisser - got to be an imposter. :)

'challange' ?

Either basskisser or Don White.
--
The REALLY funny thing is, I copied that verbatim from John's post!!!!!!

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

As odd as this sounds, Navaho on my mother's side (two back) and
Cherokee (four back) on my father's side.


I believe Navajo is the preferred spelling, although your version is
sometimes found in English writings.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 17 Jan 2007 08:59:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


Tom Francis wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max

Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?

I have direct Native American ancestors on both sides of my family,
one within two generations. Which legally allows me to claim Native
American status.

So with that in mind...

EVERYBODY GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!

So you're 100% Native American?

Didn't say that - I said legally claim Native American as my ethnic
choice. I suppose, although I've never looked into it, that I could
also claim Hispanic also as one of the Grandmothers is Mexican.


Are you really saying that if anyone states that they have any Native
American blood in them at all, that they can claim that status? Where
ARE we going to put those millions upon millions of casinos?

And where did those Native Americans come from?

Mars.

Typical.......

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

basskisser wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 17 Jan 2007 08:59:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:

Tom Francis wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
...


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max
Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?
I have direct Native American ancestors on both sides of my family,
one within two generations. Which legally allows me to claim Native
American status.

So with that in mind...

EVERYBODY GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!
So you're 100% Native American?
Didn't say that - I said legally claim Native American as my ethnic
choice. I suppose, although I've never looked into it, that I could
also claim Hispanic also as one of the Grandmothers is Mexican.


Are you really saying that if anyone states that they have any Native
American blood in them at all, that they can claim that status? Where
ARE we going to put those millions upon millions of casinos?

And where did those Native Americans come from?
Mars.

Typical.......

lol, the Indian casinos can only be placed on Indian reservations. Even
if you are 100% Native American, you can not open a casino off of the
reservation. Do you try to be so humorous or does it just come naturally.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

We can thank boating, indirectly, for advancing our knowledge about the
earliest "known" inhabitants of North America- a group that is not
related to the Asian immigrants that came to be called "native
Americans".

Some people were watching a boat race in Eastern Washington when part
of the riverbank upon which they were standing gave way and revealed
some skeletal remains. Naturally, they called the cops.

No criminal investigation was warranted, however, even though a close
examination of the skeleton revealed that someone had been the victim
of violence. (There was a spear point lodged in the skelton's thigh
bone). Through carbon dating, it was established that the skeleton was
over 9,000 years old and among the oldest human remains ever discovered
in North America.

So, anybody who hopes to claim to go *way back* (!) in North America
would more than likely look a lot like this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/first/kennewick.html

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
On 1/17/2007 12:24 PM, RG wrote:
As odd as this sounds, Navaho on my mother's side (two back) and
Cherokee (four back) on my father's side.


I believe Navajo is the preferred spelling, although your version is
sometimes found in English writings.

Either spelling is correct usage for Anglos. The Native Americans
themselves tend not to use either word amongst themselves. The word
derives from Tewa Navahú, the name referring to a large area of land and
to the people who lived on the land. Navajo is a Spanish word, coined as
part of the phrase Apaches de Navajo, which the 17th Century Spaniards
used to differentiate one Apache band and area from another.

.....which indirectly explains the "J" in Navajo: It's sounded the way we
pronounce "H".

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 17 Jan 2007 08:59:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:


Tom Francis wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max

Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were
they
from? What countries?

I have direct Native American ancestors on both sides of my family,
one within two generations. Which legally allows me to claim Native
American status.

So with that in mind...

EVERYBODY GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!

So you're 100% Native American?

Didn't say that - I said legally claim Native American as my ethnic
choice. I suppose, although I've never looked into it, that I could
also claim Hispanic also as one of the Grandmothers is Mexican.

And where did those Native Americans come from?

Mars.

Up here you could save the 14% HST tax applied to all goods & services.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Harry Krause wrote:
On 1/17/2007 12:24 PM, RG wrote:
As odd as this sounds, Navaho on my mother's side (two back) and
Cherokee (four back) on my father's side.


I believe Navajo is the preferred spelling, although your version is
sometimes found in English writings.


Either spelling is correct usage for Anglos. The Native Americans
themselves tend not to use either word amongst themselves. The word
derives from Tewa Navahú, the name referring to a large area of land and
to the people who lived on the land. Navajo is a Spanish word, coined as
part of the phrase Apaches de Navajo, which the 17th Century Spaniards
used to differentiate one Apache band and area from another.


It is amazing how quickly one call pull up everything one wants to know
about any subject.

Navajo. From Tewa Navahu, referring to a large area of cultivated land and applied to a former Tewa pueblo,
and by extension to the Navaho, known to the Spaniards as "Apaches de
Navajo," who intruded on the Tewa
domain or who lived in the vicinity, to distinguish them from other
so-called Apache bands.

Also called:

Bagowits, Southern Ute name.
Dacabimo, Hopi name.
Davaxo, Kiowa Apache name.
Dine', own name.
Djene, Laguna name.
Hua'amhu'u, Havasupai nnme.
I'hl-dene, Jicarilla name.
Moshome, Keresan name.
Oop, Oohp, Pima name.
Pagowitch, southern Ute name, meaning "reed knives."
Ta-cab-ci-nyu-muh, Hopi name.
Ta'hli'mnin, Sandia name.
Tasamewa, Hopi name (Ten Kate, 1885) meaning "*******s."
Te'liemnim, Isleta name.
Tenye, Laguna name.
Wild Coyotes, Zuni nickname translated.
Yabipais Nsbajay, Garces (1776).
Yatilatlavi, Tonto name.
Yoetaha or Yutaha, Apache name, meaning "those who live on
the border of the Ute."
Yu-i'-ta, Panamint name.
Yutilap, Yavapai name.
Yutilatlawi, Tonto name

Connections.- With the Apache tribes, the Navaho formed the southern division of the Athapascan
linguistic family.

Location.- In northern New Mexico and Arizona with some extension into Colorado and Utah.

History.- Under the loosely applied name Apache there may be a record of this tribe as early
as 1598 but the first mention of them by the name of Navaho is by
Zarate-Salmeron about 1629.
Missionaries were among them about the middle of the eighteenth
century, but their labors
seem to have borne no fruits. For many years previous to the
occupation of their country by
the United States, the Navaho kept up an almost constant predatory war
with the Pueblo Indians and
``` the White settlers. A revolution in their economy was brought about
by the introduction of sheep.
Treaties of peace made by them with the United States Government in
1846 and 1849 were not observed,
and in 1863, in order to put a stop to their depredations, Col. "Kit"
Carson invaded their country,

from: http://jeff.scott.tripod.com/navajo.html

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

'challange' ?

Either basskisser or Don White.
--
******************************************
***** Have a super day! *****
******************************************

John H


John...read this..there may be help for you.
http://lifestyle.sympatico.msn.ca/Ho...son.htm?isfa=1

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 17 Jan 2007 08:59:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:

Tom Francis wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
...


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max
Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?
I have direct Native American ancestors on both sides of my family,
one within two generations. Which legally allows me to claim Native
American status.

So with that in mind...

EVERYBODY GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!
So you're 100% Native American?
Didn't say that - I said legally claim Native American as my ethnic
choice. I suppose, although I've never looked into it, that I could
also claim Hispanic also as one of the Grandmothers is Mexican.


Are you really saying that if anyone states that they have any Native
American blood in them at all, that they can claim that status? Where
ARE we going to put those millions upon millions of casinos?

And where did those Native Americans come from?
Mars.

Typical.......

lol, the Indian casinos can only be placed on Indian reservations. Even
if you are 100% Native American, you can not open a casino off of the
reservation. Do you try to be so humorous or does it just come naturally.

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there......

Now, that's why I asked where are we going to put those casinos. There
is only so much reservation land. And I'm sure that all of us that have
any tiny bit of Native American blood in us would like to open one up!
I sure would! I guess, seeing how I have just a trace of N.A. blood in
me, I'll go to Cherokee, NC and join that nation.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
On 1/17/2007 1:15 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
On 1/17/2007 12:24 PM, RG wrote:
As odd as this sounds, Navaho on my mother's side (two back) and
Cherokee (four back) on my father's side.

I believe Navajo is the preferred spelling, although your version is
sometimes found in English writings.
Either spelling is correct usage for Anglos. The Native Americans
themselves tend not to use either word amongst themselves. The word
derives from Tewa Navahú, the name referring to a large area of land and
to the people who lived on the land. Navajo is a Spanish word, coined as
part of the phrase Apaches de Navajo, which the 17th Century Spaniards
used to differentiate one Apache band and area from another.

....which indirectly explains the "J" in Navajo: It's sounded the way we
pronounce "H".


Hey! I saw some of that LC 45 stuff at a show a few months ago, but I
forgot what the "good price" you wanted was. I think this stuff was $15 a
box of 20. Does that sound about right?

That's the normal price for a box of 20 brand name hollow points. For
practice ammo, a hideous price is $18-$22 for 50 rounds.

Speaking of .45 LC, you would be really happy if you bought my S&W model
25-2. It's got a 4" barrel, and came with a spare 6" barrel that was never
installed. Includes original wood grips, but I removed them to install a set
of Hogue grips. Also, a lovely Bianchi Cyclone holster. $600 + whatever our
local dealers charge for doing all the stupid paperwork. Usually $20-$30.

It's a sweet gun, but I need something smaller. Probably one of the compact
Kahr pieces.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:19:04 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .

'challange' ?

Either basskisser or Don White.
--
******************************************
***** Have a super day! *****
******************************************

John H


John...read this..there may be help for you.
http://lifestyle.sympatico.msn.ca/Ho...son.htm?isfa=1


I do quite well without your help.
--
******************************************
***** Have a super day! *****
******************************************

John H

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 17 Jan 2007 08:59:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:

Tom Francis wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
...


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max
Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?
I have direct Native American ancestors on both sides of my family,
one within two generations. Which legally allows me to claim Native
American status.

So with that in mind...

EVERYBODY GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!
So you're 100% Native American?
Didn't say that - I said legally claim Native American as my ethnic
choice. I suppose, although I've never looked into it, that I could
also claim Hispanic also as one of the Grandmothers is Mexican.

Are you really saying that if anyone states that they have any Native
American blood in them at all, that they can claim that status? Where
ARE we going to put those millions upon millions of casinos?

And where did those Native Americans come from?
Mars.
Typical.......

lol, the Indian casinos can only be placed on Indian reservations. Even
if you are 100% Native American, you can not open a casino off of the
reservation. Do you try to be so humorous or does it just come naturally.

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there......

Now, that's why I asked where are we going to put those casinos. There
is only so much reservation land. And I'm sure that all of us that have
any tiny bit of Native American blood in us would like to open one up!
I sure would! I guess, seeing how I have just a trace of N.A. blood in
me, I'll go to Cherokee, NC and join that nation.

LOL,
The Cherokee Nation owns the reservation and they run the casino, it is
not up to each Native American to deciede if he wants to open a casino.

Have you still not figured that a yard of concrete can weigh over 4000lbs?

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:


Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.

ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put 2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...



So, anybody who hopes to claim to go *way back* (!) in North America
would more than likely look a lot like this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/first/kennewick.html


I've met Shortwave. Striking resemblance.

Eisboch

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 17 Jan 2007 08:59:54 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:

Tom Francis wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:13:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
...


A mongrel political state is doomed to perpetual disorder.

Max
Tell me about the first of your ancestors who came here. Where were they
from? What countries?
I have direct Native American ancestors on both sides of my family,
one within two generations. Which legally allows me to claim Native
American status.

So with that in mind...

EVERYBODY GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!
So you're 100% Native American?
Didn't say that - I said legally claim Native American as my ethnic
choice. I suppose, although I've never looked into it, that I could
also claim Hispanic also as one of the Grandmothers is Mexican.

Are you really saying that if anyone states that they have any Native
American blood in them at all, that they can claim that status? Where
ARE we going to put those millions upon millions of casinos?

And where did those Native Americans come from?
Mars.
Typical.......

lol, the Indian casinos can only be placed on Indian reservations. Even
if you are 100% Native American, you can not open a casino off of the
reservation. Do you try to be so humorous or does it just come naturally.

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there......

Now, that's why I asked where are we going to put those casinos. There
is only so much reservation land. And I'm sure that all of us that have
any tiny bit of Native American blood in us would like to open one up!
I sure would! I guess, seeing how I have just a trace of N.A. blood in
me, I'll go to Cherokee, NC and join that nation.

LOL,
The Cherokee Nation owns the reservation and they run the casino, it is
not up to each Native American to deciede if he wants to open a casino.

Have you still not figured that a yard of concrete can weigh over 4000lbs?

I know the FACTS about concrete. Do you need me to cut and paste some
mix designs for you to prove that a yard of concrete almost never
weighs two tons? Now, what about that 2500# of Portland cement in a
yard of concrete? Please provide some data to show this.

Now, as part OF the Cherokee nation, each individual has a say in it's
enterprises. But, you are forgetting the gist of the message here. Just
because someone has any little tiny bit of N.A. blood in them, doesn't
make them instantly able to be a part of such.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:


Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.

ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put 2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.

No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500 pounds
of Portland.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

A bit of diversity training ought to fix things. No problemo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/us...92ac5b708e97a&
hp=&ex=1169010000&partner=homepage&pagewanted=pri nt

January 17, 2007
A City’s Violence Feeds on Black-Hispanic Rivalry
By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD
LOS ANGELES, Jan. 16 — The Latino gang members were looking for a black
person, any black person, to shoot, the police said, and they found one.
Cheryl Green, perched near her scooter chatting with friends, was shot dead
in a spray of bullets that left several other young people injured.

This is the fault of whites, of course.

She was 14, an eighth grader who loved junk food and watching Court TV with
her mother and had recently written a poem beginning: “I am black and
beautiful. I wonder how I will be living in the future.”

"How white of her".

Rabbi Allen Freehling, executive director of the Los Angeles Human Relations
Commission, a group created after the 1965 riots, said the recent growth in
hate crimes reflected a failure by government and community leaders to
prepare residents for socioeconomic changes in many neighborhoods, “and
therefore people have a tendency to lash out, out of desperation.”

The Watts riots were the fault of whites, responsible authorities
declared it so!

In November, three Latino gang members received sentences of life in federal
prison for crimes that included the murder of two black men — one waiting
for a bus, another searching for a parking spot — and assaults on others in
a conspiracy to intimidate black residents of a northeast Los Angeles
neighborhood.

Perhaps "Latinos" are confused and need to be "educated" to kill whites
instead of blacks, like the native-born Latinos do?

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.
ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put 2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.

No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500 pounds
of Portland.


I tried to be helpful and show you many links showing you the exact
weight of concrete, and the exact weight of Portland Cement, you prefer
to ignore them. I didn't want you to continue with your silliness, but
I should have known better. The question wasn't "is all concrete 4000
lbs per year", because there are light weight concrete mixes that weigh
less, but as Bill said, concrete can and does weigh approx. 4000 lbs.
The fact that you fail to see this, does understand why you are not
employed.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...



So, anybody who hopes to claim to go *way back* (!) in North America
would more than likely look a lot like this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/first/kennewick.html


I've met Shortwave. Striking resemblance.

Eisboch


Actually, the Kennewick Man featured on your link kinda looks like Captain
Jean-Luc Picard.

Eisboch

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

RCE wrote:

Actually, the Kennewick Man featured on your link kinda looks like Captain
Jean-Luc Picard.

Eisboch

Or, Daddy Warbucks.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.
ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put 2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.

No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500 pounds
of Portland.


I tried to be helpful and show you many links showing you the exact
weight of concrete, and the exact weight of Portland Cement, you prefer
to ignore them. I didn't want you to continue with your silliness, but
I should have known better. The question wasn't "is all concrete 4000
lbs per year", because there are light weight concrete mixes that weigh
less, but as Bill said, concrete can and does weigh approx. 4000 lbs.
The fact that you fail to see this, does understand why you are not
employed.

No, you are wrong. Bill actually said that concrete weighs 5000#.
Please show what facts you have that I am not employed, first. Now,
where WERE those links that you shown that states that there is 2500#
of Portland cement in a yard of concrete? You DO know, seeing how you
are acting the expert here, that in reality, there's somewhere around 5
bags @ 94 pounds in a typical 3,000 psi mix, for a total of 470# don't
you? So, I'd really, really like to see this mix design that uses
2500#, because with a water/cement ratio of .53 maximum, you'd have
approx. 1,325 pounds of water. But you know this, right? Now, here's
the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA. This 2500# of cement takes
approx. 12.72 cubic feet of area. The water that we need per ACI 307
would take an area of approx. 20.64 cubic feet, for a total of 33.36
cubic feet. You're now at more than a yard before you add in the
largest volumes, which are the coarse and fine aggregates, with proper
gradation of course. So, for an F'c of 3000 psi, the aggregate total is
going to be close to approx. 10 or 12 times the amount of concrete. So
now you have a "yard" of concrete that is 400 or so cubic feet! So, I'm
really confused. Please show me where you are correct, and I am wrong.
Now remember something about that 4,000 pounds you are referring to.
There is a factor of safety involved for that number. A cubic foot of
normal weight concrete doesn't weigh 150 pounds, although that number
is thrown around alot. The actual weight of normal weight concrete is
around 125 pounds per cubic foot, or 3375 a yard. If you'll look at ACI
guidelines you'll even see that there criteria uses 125# per cubic foot
dead load for elevated slabs! And even THAT has a factor of safety.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 21:11:24 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On 17 Jan 2007 09:25:08 -0800, "basskisser"
wrote:

And where did those Native Americans come from?

Mars.

Typical.......

Prove me wrong.

LOL!
--
******************************************
***** Have a super day! *****
******************************************

John H

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.
ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put 2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.
No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500 pounds
of Portland.

I tried to be helpful and show you many links showing you the exact
weight of concrete, and the exact weight of Portland Cement, you prefer
to ignore them. I didn't want you to continue with your silliness, but
I should have known better. The question wasn't "is all concrete 4000
lbs per year", because there are light weight concrete mixes that weigh
less, but as Bill said, concrete can and does weigh approx. 4000 lbs.
The fact that you fail to see this, does understand why you are not
employed.

No, you are wrong. Bill actually said that concrete weighs 5000#.
Please show what facts you have that I am not employed, first. Now,
where WERE those links that you shown that states that there is 2500#
of Portland cement in a yard of concrete? You DO know, seeing how you
are acting the expert here, that in reality, there's somewhere around 5
bags @ 94 pounds in a typical 3,000 psi mix, for a total of 470# don't
you? So, I'd really, really like to see this mix design that uses
2500#, because with a water/cement ratio of .53 maximum, you'd have
approx. 1,325 pounds of water. But you know this, right? Now, here's
the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA. This 2500# of cement takes
approx. 12.72 cubic feet of area. The water that we need per ACI 307
would take an area of approx. 20.64 cubic feet, for a total of 33.36
cubic feet. You're now at more than a yard before you add in the
largest volumes, which are the coarse and fine aggregates, with proper
gradation of course. So, for an F'c of 3000 psi, the aggregate total is
going to be close to approx. 10 or 12 times the amount of concrete. So
now you have a "yard" of concrete that is 400 or so cubic feet! So, I'm
really confused. Please show me where you are correct, and I am wrong.
Now remember something about that 4,000 pounds you are referring to.
There is a factor of safety involved for that number. A cubic foot of
normal weight concrete doesn't weigh 150 pounds, although that number
is thrown around alot. The actual weight of normal weight concrete is
around 125 pounds per cubic foot, or 3375 a yard. If you'll look at ACI
guidelines you'll even see that there criteria uses 125# per cubic foot
dead load for elevated slabs! And even THAT has a factor of safety.


Do you understand English?

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:24:24 GMT, "RG" wrote:

As odd as this sounds, Navaho on my mother's side (two back) and
Cherokee (four back) on my father's side.
I believe Navajo is the preferred spelling, although your version is
sometimes found in English writings.

Um...actually, either is acceptable because the actual name in
Navaj(h)o is something like Dine' - I'm not in lecture mode at the
moment. There are also others, one which is historically inaccurate
as the Dine' aren't an offshoot tribe of the Apache.

Anyway doesn't matter. Either is acceptable and in fact, as it
happens, my spell checker has either listed which is why it didn't
catch it in the first place.

And speaking of Nikon cameras, I heard something interesting this
afternoon about digital Nikons - in their EULA, there is a clause that
states that all images taken with one of the digital cameras are the
intellectual property of Nikon.

I don't have a Nikon EULA handy - have you heard anything about that
or is it bull****?
it is bull****

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

I don't have a Nikon EULA handy - have you heard anything about that
or is it bull****?

1. I have no idea what an EULA is.

2. If you look at the statement that you are reciting at its face, there is
no way it could be taken seriously. Look at all the professional
photographers that shoot with Nikon digital gear. Do you think, even for a
moment, that they would allow the intellectual rights to their work be
compromised in any way? I don't think so. The pro community is and always
has been Nikon's bread and butter. I really don't think Nikon would be so
stupid as to try and **** where it eats. Maybe Snopes has the answer you
seek, but I don't give the issue enough credibility to warrant spending any
of my time checking it out.

As to the Navajo issue, I've spent quite a bit of time on the Navajo
reservation, and I've never once seen the Navaho spelling used there. Which
is a bit different than the spelling of Mohave. In Arizona, Mohave is
always spelled with an "h", but in California, it is always spelled Mojave
with a "j". Go figure.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland
cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.

ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was
referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put 2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.

No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500 pounds
of Portland.

I tried to be helpful and show you many links showing you the exact
weight of concrete, and the exact weight of Portland Cement, you prefer
to ignore them. I didn't want you to continue with your silliness, but
I should have known better. The question wasn't "is all concrete 4000
lbs per year", because there are light weight concrete mixes that weigh
less, but as Bill said, concrete can and does weigh approx. 4000 lbs.
The fact that you fail to see this, does understand why you are not
employed.


No, you are wrong. Bill actually said that concrete weighs 5000#.
Please show what facts you have that I am not employed, first. Now,
where WERE those links that you shown that states that there is 2500#
of Portland cement in a yard of concrete? You DO know, seeing how you
are acting the expert here, that in reality, there's somewhere around 5
bags @ 94 pounds in a typical 3,000 psi mix, for a total of 470# don't
you? So, I'd really, really like to see this mix design that uses
2500#, because with a water/cement ratio of .53 maximum, you'd have
approx. 1,325 pounds of water. But you know this, right? Now, here's
the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA. This 2500# of cement takes
approx. 12.72 cubic feet of area. The water that we need per ACI 307
would take an area of approx. 20.64 cubic feet, for a total of 33.36
cubic feet. You're now at more than a yard before you add in the
largest volumes, which are the coarse and fine aggregates, with proper
gradation of course. So, for an F'c of 3000 psi, the aggregate total is
going to be close to approx. 10 or 12 times the amount of concrete. So
now you have a "yard" of concrete that is 400 or so cubic feet! So, I'm
really confused. Please show me where you are correct, and I am wrong.
Now remember something about that 4,000 pounds you are referring to.
There is a factor of safety involved for that number. A cubic foot of
normal weight concrete doesn't weigh 150 pounds, although that number
is thrown around alot. The actual weight of normal weight concrete is
around 125 pounds per cubic foot, or 3375 a yard. If you'll look at ACI
guidelines you'll even see that there criteria uses 125# per cubic foot
dead load for elevated slabs! And even THAT has a factor of safety.


Do you understand English?


I have a feeling this will be another "schnapps is whiskey" circus.

No matter how much kevin is proven wrong, he will always insist he is right.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

RCE wrote:

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
groups.com...



So, anybody who hopes to claim to go *way back* (!) in North America
would more than likely look a lot like this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/first/kennewick.html


I've met Shortwave. Striking resemblance.

Eisboch



Actually, the Kennewick Man featured on your link kinda looks like Captain
Jean-Luc Picard.

Eisboch


I thought the same thing