I thought it was genius to make ships during WWII to make ships out of
"fullers earth" which was also known as "concrete.



Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:13:24 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:


If you go back through the thread you will see that concrete's weight
can vary based upon the aggregate used. I am surprised that a PE does
not understand that. Now if you go back to the beginning of this thread
and read it very slowly you will have all of your questions answered.
They are all answered already.

Yeah, but what if I used styrofoam pellets instead of crushed limestone as
an aggregate. Wouldn't that give me a very light, air entrained concrete?
--
******************************************
***** Have a super day! *****
******************************************

John H
There is a kind of "cement" they use to reduce the sound between floors
that they use a filler that is similar to styrofoam, and yes it is very
light.

"Animal05" wrote in message
...
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland
cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.

ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was
referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put
2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very
common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.

No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit
your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per
yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500
pounds
of Portland.

I tried to be helpful and show you many links showing you the exact
weight of concrete, and the exact weight of Portland Cement, you
prefer
to ignore them. I didn't want you to continue with your silliness,
but
I should have known better. The question wasn't "is all concrete
4000
lbs per year", because there are light weight concrete mixes that
weigh
less, but as Bill said, concrete can and does weigh approx. 4000
lbs.
The fact that you fail to see this, does understand why you are not
employed.

No, you are wrong. Bill actually said that concrete weighs 5000#.
Please show what facts you have that I am not employed, first. Now,
where WERE those links that you shown that states that there is
2500#
of Portland cement in a yard of concrete? You DO know, seeing how
you
are acting the expert here, that in reality, there's somewhere
around 5
bags @ 94 pounds in a typical 3,000 psi mix, for a total of 470#
don't
you? So, I'd really, really like to see this mix design that uses
2500#, because with a water/cement ratio of .53 maximum, you'd have
approx. 1,325 pounds of water. But you know this, right? Now, here's
the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA. This 2500# of cement takes
approx. 12.72 cubic feet of area. The water that we need per ACI 307
would take an area of approx. 20.64 cubic feet, for a total of 33.36
cubic feet. You're now at more than a yard before you add in the
largest volumes, which are the coarse and fine aggregates, with
proper
gradation of course. So, for an F'c of 3000 psi, the aggregate total
is
going to be close to approx. 10 or 12 times the amount of concrete.
So
now you have a "yard" of concrete that is 400 or so cubic feet! So,
I'm
really confused. Please show me where you are correct, and I am
wrong.
Now remember something about that 4,000 pounds you are referring to.
There is a factor of safety involved for that number. A cubic foot
of
normal weight concrete doesn't weigh 150 pounds, although that
number
is thrown around alot. The actual weight of normal weight concrete
is
around 125 pounds per cubic foot, or 3375 a yard. If you'll look at
ACI
guidelines you'll even see that there criteria uses 125# per cubic
foot
dead load for elevated slabs! And even THAT has a factor of safety.

Do you understand English?

Yes, I do. So, show me how you can get 2500# of portland cement into a
yard of concrete using the criteria set forth by A.C.I. 307, A.C.I.
301, and A.C.I. 318. Do you also want me to post some design mixes
here
showing that I'm right and you are wrong about the weight of concrete?
Also, do you want to show me how you get 150# per cubic foot, when,
following guidlines by ANY applicable code in the U.S., and ACI, and
even Factory Mutual, you only need to design a structure to resist
125#
per cubic foot?

Please go back and reread this thread before you respond. You might be
able to understand the words if you read them a 2nd time.


I want YOU to tell me, in YOUR WORDS, how applicable codes, all ACI
publications that deal in the subject, Factory Mutual, as well as the
Steel Deck Institute, etc. all allow you to design elevated structures
that will resist the forces of concrete floors at #125 per cubic foot,
which equates to #3375 per yard. All of these use a factor of safety,
also. SO, how is it safe to do that, if concrete weighs #150 per cubic
foot, as you say? Tell me.


If you go back through the thread you will see that concrete's weight can
vary based upon the aggregate used. I am surprised that a PE does not
understand that. Now if you go back to the beginning of this thread and
read it very slowly you will have all of your questions answered. They
are all answered already.

LMAO.....kevin is too clueless to know the difference between normal
weight concrete and light weight concrete. Just more proof that he is no
PE.

Who should we believe......the concrete industry or the wannabe engineer ?

http://www.concretecountertops.org/m....php?itemid=33

http://www.cement.org/tech/faq_unit_weights.asp

"Concrete: Concrete is a mixture of cement, coarse and fine aggregates,
water, and sometimes supplementary cementing materials and/or chemical
admixtures. A normal weight concrete weighs approximately 2400 kg/m3 (145
lbs/ft3). The unit weight (density) of concrete varies, depending on the
amount and density of the aggregate, the amount of air that is entrapped
or purposely entrained, and the water and cement contents, which in turn
are influenced by the maximum size of the aggregate."

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...0/ai_n13824435

"By definition lightweight concrete is lighter then normal-weight
concrete, typically 110 to 115 pounds per square foot compared to about
145 psf for normal-weight concrete."

http://cee.engr.ucdavis.edu/faculty/...eci135-ho1.pdf

http://bridges.transportation.org/si...TO%20T-4NG.pdf
(slide #6)

http://www.precast.org/publications/...Aggregates.htm

http://www.prairie.com/readymix/lightconcrete.asp

"Lightweight Concrete for structural applications refers to concrete with
a density of 90-115 lb/ft³ compared to normal weight concrete of 140 - 150
lb/ft³. The concrete strength should be greater than 2,500 psi. The
concrete is made with lightweight coarse aggregate and is air-entrained.
Some or all of the fine aggregate may also be lightweight. Since these
aggregates absorb moisture at a greater rate than other aggregates,
pre-wetting is required."

http://www.tx-taca.org/concretefaq.htm

"How much does concrete weigh?

Normal weight concrete weighs about 4000 lb. per cubic yard. Lightweight
concrete weighs about 3000 lb. per cubic yard."

http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/~paulmont...0_concrete.pdf (slide
15)

http://www.daytonconcreteacc.com/pdf/Info_63.pdf

http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tabl.../Concrete.html

"Density of Concrete
Concrete is produced in a range of densities as listed below

* Plain Concrete, with natural stone aggregate ...2300 kg/m3
* Plain Concrete, with natural Broken brick aggregate...2000 kg/m3
* Reinforced Concrete, with dense aggregate ...2400 kg/m3
* Reinforced Concrete, with dense aggregate ...2400 kg/m3
* Lightweight cellular (aerated) Concrete ...641 kg/m3
* Lightweight aggregate structural grade Concrete ...1760 kg/m3
* Lightweight aggregate (structural grade) Concrete ...1760 kg/m3
* Steelshot aggregate Concrete ...5285 kg/m3"


http://www.idsi.org/pdf/COS5T.pdf

http://www.ou.edu/class/hgruenwald/t...333/4333ex.htm (question 8)

8. What is the weight of reinforced normal weight concrete? ( 2 points)

a. 115 pcf

xb. 150 pcf

c. 175 pcf

d. 380 pcf

http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/dsweb/guides_tech/tg42.pdf

http://journals.tubitak.gov.tr/engin...4-5-0602-8.pdf


Now are those per yard numbers quoted as square yards or cubic yards? 8)

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

JohnH wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:13:24 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:


If you go back through the thread you will see that concrete's weight
can vary based upon the aggregate used. I am surprised that a PE
does not understand that. Now if you go back to the beginning of
this thread and read it very slowly you will have all of your
questions answered. They are all answered already.


Yeah, but what if I used styrofoam pellets instead of crushed
limestone as
an aggregate. Wouldn't that give me a very light, air entrained concrete?
--
******************************************
***** Have a super day! *****
******************************************

John H

There is a kind of "cement" they use to reduce the sound between floors
that they use a filler that is similar to styrofoam, and yes it is very
light.

Gypcrete

http://www.maxxon.com/product_detail.asp?ID=1

I think I'm going to have to find a copy of the book, because this
really looks interesting:

"...The Concrete Battleship by Francis J. Allen. Revised edition of the
fascinating pictorial on Fort Drum, the "Concrete Battleship" in Manila
Bay. Great information on construction, the battle for Manila,
repossession from the Japanese and Fort Drum today. Soft., 64 pages,
photos, illus...."

http://www.warbooks.com/wwallies.html





Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:17:41 -0500, JohnH wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:13:24 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:




If you go back through the thread you will see that concrete's weight
can vary based upon the aggregate used. I am surprised that a PE does
not understand that. Now if you go back to the beginning of this thread
and read it very slowly you will have all of your questions answered.
They are all answered already.

Yeah, but what if I used styrofoam pellets instead of crushed limestone as
an aggregate. Wouldn't that give me a very light, air entrained concrete?

Funny you should mention that.

I know a guy who experiments with different concrete for boats. He
uses a concrete with really small hollow glass beads as the aggregate
and some kind of hinky type of epoxy stringers - I don't know all the
specifics of it, but he built a canoe out of the stuff and damned if
it didn't float and two people could handle it.

Last I heard, he was planning on building a sailboat using the
mixture.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:47:31 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:


Now are those per yard numbers quoted as square yards or cubic yards? 8)

Cubits per furlong.

This is not a horse group, it is a boating group, so it is Cubits per
Fathom.

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 01:58:02 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:17:41 -0500, JohnH wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:13:24 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:




If you go back through the thread you will see that concrete's weight
can vary based upon the aggregate used. I am surprised that a PE does
not understand that. Now if you go back to the beginning of this thread
and read it very slowly you will have all of your questions answered.
They are all answered already.

Yeah, but what if I used styrofoam pellets instead of crushed limestone as
an aggregate. Wouldn't that give me a very light, air entrained concrete?

Funny you should mention that.

I know a guy who experiments with different concrete for boats. He
uses a concrete with really small hollow glass beads as the aggregate
and some kind of hinky type of epoxy stringers - I don't know all the
specifics of it, but he built a canoe out of the stuff and damned if
it didn't float and two people could handle it.

Last I heard, he was planning on building a sailboat using the
mixture.

What are you trying to do, get this back on topic?
--
***** Have a super day! *****

John H

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.
ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put 2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.
No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500 pounds
of Portland.

I tried to be helpful and show you many links showing you the exact
weight of concrete, and the exact weight of Portland Cement, you prefer
to ignore them. I didn't want you to continue with your silliness, but
I should have known better. The question wasn't "is all concrete 4000
lbs per year", because there are light weight concrete mixes that weigh
less, but as Bill said, concrete can and does weigh approx. 4000 lbs.
The fact that you fail to see this, does understand why you are not
employed.
No, you are wrong. Bill actually said that concrete weighs 5000#.
Please show what facts you have that I am not employed, first. Now,
where WERE those links that you shown that states that there is 2500#
of Portland cement in a yard of concrete? You DO know, seeing how you
are acting the expert here, that in reality, there's somewhere around 5
bags @ 94 pounds in a typical 3,000 psi mix, for a total of 470# don't
you? So, I'd really, really like to see this mix design that uses
2500#, because with a water/cement ratio of .53 maximum, you'd have
approx. 1,325 pounds of water. But you know this, right? Now, here's
the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA. This 2500# of cement takes
approx. 12.72 cubic feet of area. The water that we need per ACI 307
would take an area of approx. 20.64 cubic feet, for a total of 33.36
cubic feet. You're now at more than a yard before you add in the
largest volumes, which are the coarse and fine aggregates, with proper
gradation of course. So, for an F'c of 3000 psi, the aggregate total is
going to be close to approx. 10 or 12 times the amount of concrete. So
now you have a "yard" of concrete that is 400 or so cubic feet! So, I'm
really confused. Please show me where you are correct, and I am wrong.
Now remember something about that 4,000 pounds you are referring to.
There is a factor of safety involved for that number. A cubic foot of
normal weight concrete doesn't weigh 150 pounds, although that number
is thrown around alot. The actual weight of normal weight concrete is
around 125 pounds per cubic foot, or 3375 a yard. If you'll look at ACI
guidelines you'll even see that there criteria uses 125# per cubic foot
dead load for elevated slabs! And even THAT has a factor of safety.

Do you understand English?
Yes, I do. So, show me how you can get 2500# of portland cement into a
yard of concrete using the criteria set forth by A.C.I. 307, A.C.I.
301, and A.C.I. 318. Do you also want me to post some design mixes here
showing that I'm right and you are wrong about the weight of concrete?
Also, do you want to show me how you get 150# per cubic foot, when,
following guidlines by ANY applicable code in the U.S., and ACI, and
even Factory Mutual, you only need to design a structure to resist 125#
per cubic foot?

Please go back and reread this thread before you respond. You might be
able to understand the words if you read them a 2nd time.

I want YOU to tell me, in YOUR WORDS, how applicable codes, all ACI
publications that deal in the subject, Factory Mutual, as well as the
Steel Deck Institute, etc. all allow you to design elevated structures
that will resist the forces of concrete floors at #125 per cubic foot,
which equates to #3375 per yard. All of these use a factor of safety,
also. SO, how is it safe to do that, if concrete weighs #150 per cubic
foot, as you say? Tell me.


If you go back through the thread you will see that concrete's weight
can vary based upon the aggregate used. I am surprised that a PE does
not understand that. Now if you go back to the beginning of this thread
and read it very slowly you will have all of your questions answered.
They are all answered already.

I never ever said that a yard of concrete's weight doesn't vary. BUT,
you've stated that it's at 2 tons, that is wrong. I want YOU to tell me
how someone can, by all applicable codes, case studies, etc. be able to
design for concrete structures at 125# per cubic foot, when you say
that concrete weighs 150#. Also post any binding data that you have
that concrete weighs 150# pcf.

Animal05 wrote:


snip

Poor animal, tries to come off as a professional.....

Has never heard of ACI or REAL LIFE data, can only go by publications
that use a factor of safety of 1.3!

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

There is a kind of "cement" they use to reduce the sound between floors
that they use a filler that is similar to styrofoam, and yes it is very
light.

Or Perlite, or Zonolite, or any of a thousand different admixtures.

basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.
ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put 2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.
No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500 pounds
of Portland.

I tried to be helpful and show you many links showing you the exact
weight of concrete, and the exact weight of Portland Cement, you prefer
to ignore them. I didn't want you to continue with your silliness, but
I should have known better. The question wasn't "is all concrete 4000
lbs per year", because there are light weight concrete mixes that weigh
less, but as Bill said, concrete can and does weigh approx. 4000 lbs.
The fact that you fail to see this, does understand why you are not
employed.
No, you are wrong. Bill actually said that concrete weighs 5000#.
Please show what facts you have that I am not employed, first. Now,
where WERE those links that you shown that states that there is 2500#
of Portland cement in a yard of concrete? You DO know, seeing how you
are acting the expert here, that in reality, there's somewhere around 5
bags @ 94 pounds in a typical 3,000 psi mix, for a total of 470# don't
you? So, I'd really, really like to see this mix design that uses
2500#, because with a water/cement ratio of .53 maximum, you'd have
approx. 1,325 pounds of water. But you know this, right? Now, here's
the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA. This 2500# of cement takes
approx. 12.72 cubic feet of area. The water that we need per ACI 307
would take an area of approx. 20.64 cubic feet, for a total of 33.36
cubic feet. You're now at more than a yard before you add in the
largest volumes, which are the coarse and fine aggregates, with proper
gradation of course. So, for an F'c of 3000 psi, the aggregate total is
going to be close to approx. 10 or 12 times the amount of concrete. So
now you have a "yard" of concrete that is 400 or so cubic feet! So, I'm
really confused. Please show me where you are correct, and I am wrong.
Now remember something about that 4,000 pounds you are referring to.
There is a factor of safety involved for that number. A cubic foot of
normal weight concrete doesn't weigh 150 pounds, although that number
is thrown around alot. The actual weight of normal weight concrete is
around 125 pounds per cubic foot, or 3375 a yard. If you'll look at ACI
guidelines you'll even see that there criteria uses 125# per cubic foot
dead load for elevated slabs! And even THAT has a factor of safety.

Do you understand English?
Yes, I do. So, show me how you can get 2500# of portland cement into a
yard of concrete using the criteria set forth by A.C.I. 307, A.C.I.
301, and A.C.I. 318. Do you also want me to post some design mixes here
showing that I'm right and you are wrong about the weight of concrete?
Also, do you want to show me how you get 150# per cubic foot, when,
following guidlines by ANY applicable code in the U.S., and ACI, and
even Factory Mutual, you only need to design a structure to resist 125#
per cubic foot?

Please go back and reread this thread before you respond. You might be
able to understand the words if you read them a 2nd time.
I want YOU to tell me, in YOUR WORDS, how applicable codes, all ACI
publications that deal in the subject, Factory Mutual, as well as the
Steel Deck Institute, etc. all allow you to design elevated structures
that will resist the forces of concrete floors at #125 per cubic foot,
which equates to #3375 per yard. All of these use a factor of safety,
also. SO, how is it safe to do that, if concrete weighs #150 per cubic
foot, as you say? Tell me.

If you go back through the thread you will see that concrete's weight
can vary based upon the aggregate used. I am surprised that a PE does
not understand that. Now if you go back to the beginning of this thread
and read it very slowly you will have all of your questions answered.
They are all answered already.

I never ever said that a yard of concrete's weight doesn't vary. BUT,
you've stated that it's at 2 tons, that is wrong. I want YOU to tell me
how someone can, by all applicable codes, case studies, etc. be able to
design for concrete structures at 125# per cubic foot, when you say
that concrete weighs 150#. Also post any binding data that you have
that concrete weighs 150# pcf.

Please try reading this thread.