Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.
ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put 2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.
No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500 pounds
of Portland.

I tried to be helpful and show you many links showing you the exact
weight of concrete, and the exact weight of Portland Cement, you prefer
to ignore them. I didn't want you to continue with your silliness, but
I should have known better. The question wasn't "is all concrete 4000
lbs per year", because there are light weight concrete mixes that weigh
less, but as Bill said, concrete can and does weigh approx. 4000 lbs.
The fact that you fail to see this, does understand why you are not
employed.
No, you are wrong. Bill actually said that concrete weighs 5000#.
Please show what facts you have that I am not employed, first. Now,
where WERE those links that you shown that states that there is 2500#
of Portland cement in a yard of concrete? You DO know, seeing how you
are acting the expert here, that in reality, there's somewhere around 5
bags @ 94 pounds in a typical 3,000 psi mix, for a total of 470# don't
you? So, I'd really, really like to see this mix design that uses
2500#, because with a water/cement ratio of .53 maximum, you'd have
approx. 1,325 pounds of water. But you know this, right? Now, here's
the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA. This 2500# of cement takes
approx. 12.72 cubic feet of area. The water that we need per ACI 307
would take an area of approx. 20.64 cubic feet, for a total of 33.36
cubic feet. You're now at more than a yard before you add in the
largest volumes, which are the coarse and fine aggregates, with proper
gradation of course. So, for an F'c of 3000 psi, the aggregate total is
going to be close to approx. 10 or 12 times the amount of concrete. So
now you have a "yard" of concrete that is 400 or so cubic feet! So, I'm
really confused. Please show me where you are correct, and I am wrong.
Now remember something about that 4,000 pounds you are referring to.
There is a factor of safety involved for that number. A cubic foot of
normal weight concrete doesn't weigh 150 pounds, although that number
is thrown around alot. The actual weight of normal weight concrete is
around 125 pounds per cubic foot, or 3375 a yard. If you'll look at ACI
guidelines you'll even see that there criteria uses 125# per cubic foot
dead load for elevated slabs! And even THAT has a factor of safety.

Do you understand English?

Yes, I do. So, show me how you can get 2500# of portland cement into a
yard of concrete using the criteria set forth by A.C.I. 307, A.C.I.
301, and A.C.I. 318. Do you also want me to post some design mixes here
showing that I'm right and you are wrong about the weight of concrete?
Also, do you want to show me how you get 150# per cubic foot, when,
following guidlines by ANY applicable code in the U.S., and ACI, and
even Factory Mutual, you only need to design a structure to resist 125#
per cubic foot?

Please go back and reread this thread before you respond. You might be
able to understand the words if you read them a 2nd time.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

snip

Now, here's the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA.

snip


Isn't a yard of concrete specified as VOLUME?

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:10:23 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:


"basskisser" wrote in message
groups.com...

snip

Now, here's the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA.

snip


Isn't a yard of concrete specified as VOLUME?


It's a cubic yard of concrete to specify volume, although due to
lazy-speak, its universally just called it a "yard". Generally, if
someone mentions a "yard of concrete" to a relatively normal,
reasonable, person, they would take it to mean a cubic yard of
concrete unless they specifically qualified it as something else, such
as a square yard.

See also: "10 yard dumptruck"

CWM

I totally agree with you. The OP stated and emphasized that is was an area.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:10:23 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:


"basskisser" wrote in message
egroups.com...

snip

Now, here's the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA.

snip


Isn't a yard of concrete specified as VOLUME?


It's a cubic yard of concrete to specify volume, although due to
lazy-speak, its universally just called it a "yard". Generally, if
someone mentions a "yard of concrete" to a relatively normal,
reasonable, person, they would take it to mean a cubic yard of
concrete unless they specifically qualified it as something else, such
as a square yard.

See also: "10 yard dumptruck"

CWM

I totally agree with you. The OP stated and emphasized that is was an
area.


Sounds like a geometry failure to me.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

D.Duck wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

snip

Now, here's the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA.

snip


Isn't a yard of concrete specified as VOLUME?

Yup, my bad.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.
ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put 2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.
No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500 pounds
of Portland.

I tried to be helpful and show you many links showing you the exact
weight of concrete, and the exact weight of Portland Cement, you prefer
to ignore them. I didn't want you to continue with your silliness, but
I should have known better. The question wasn't "is all concrete 4000
lbs per year", because there are light weight concrete mixes that weigh
less, but as Bill said, concrete can and does weigh approx. 4000 lbs.
The fact that you fail to see this, does understand why you are not
employed.
No, you are wrong. Bill actually said that concrete weighs 5000#.
Please show what facts you have that I am not employed, first. Now,
where WERE those links that you shown that states that there is 2500#
of Portland cement in a yard of concrete? You DO know, seeing how you
are acting the expert here, that in reality, there's somewhere around 5
bags @ 94 pounds in a typical 3,000 psi mix, for a total of 470# don't
you? So, I'd really, really like to see this mix design that uses
2500#, because with a water/cement ratio of .53 maximum, you'd have
approx. 1,325 pounds of water. But you know this, right? Now, here's
the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA. This 2500# of cement takes
approx. 12.72 cubic feet of area. The water that we need per ACI 307
would take an area of approx. 20.64 cubic feet, for a total of 33.36
cubic feet. You're now at more than a yard before you add in the
largest volumes, which are the coarse and fine aggregates, with proper
gradation of course. So, for an F'c of 3000 psi, the aggregate total is
going to be close to approx. 10 or 12 times the amount of concrete. So
now you have a "yard" of concrete that is 400 or so cubic feet! So, I'm
really confused. Please show me where you are correct, and I am wrong.
Now remember something about that 4,000 pounds you are referring to.
There is a factor of safety involved for that number. A cubic foot of
normal weight concrete doesn't weigh 150 pounds, although that number
is thrown around alot. The actual weight of normal weight concrete is
around 125 pounds per cubic foot, or 3375 a yard. If you'll look at ACI
guidelines you'll even see that there criteria uses 125# per cubic foot
dead load for elevated slabs! And even THAT has a factor of safety.

Do you understand English?

Yes, I do. So, show me how you can get 2500# of portland cement into a
yard of concrete using the criteria set forth by A.C.I. 307, A.C.I.
301, and A.C.I. 318. Do you also want me to post some design mixes here
showing that I'm right and you are wrong about the weight of concrete?
Also, do you want to show me how you get 150# per cubic foot, when,
following guidlines by ANY applicable code in the U.S., and ACI, and
even Factory Mutual, you only need to design a structure to resist 125#
per cubic foot?

Please go back and reread this thread before you respond. You might be
able to understand the words if you read them a 2nd time.

I want YOU to tell me, in YOUR WORDS, how applicable codes, all ACI
publications that deal in the subject, Factory Mutual, as well as the
Steel Deck Institute, etc. all allow you to design elevated structures
that will resist the forces of concrete floors at #125 per cubic foot,
which equates to #3375 per yard. All of these use a factor of safety,
also. SO, how is it safe to do that, if concrete weighs #150 per cubic
foot, as you say? Tell me.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.
ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put 2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.
No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500 pounds
of Portland.

I tried to be helpful and show you many links showing you the exact
weight of concrete, and the exact weight of Portland Cement, you prefer
to ignore them. I didn't want you to continue with your silliness, but
I should have known better. The question wasn't "is all concrete 4000
lbs per year", because there are light weight concrete mixes that weigh
less, but as Bill said, concrete can and does weigh approx. 4000 lbs.
The fact that you fail to see this, does understand why you are not
employed.
No, you are wrong. Bill actually said that concrete weighs 5000#.
Please show what facts you have that I am not employed, first. Now,
where WERE those links that you shown that states that there is 2500#
of Portland cement in a yard of concrete? You DO know, seeing how you
are acting the expert here, that in reality, there's somewhere around 5
bags @ 94 pounds in a typical 3,000 psi mix, for a total of 470# don't
you? So, I'd really, really like to see this mix design that uses
2500#, because with a water/cement ratio of .53 maximum, you'd have
approx. 1,325 pounds of water. But you know this, right? Now, here's
the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA. This 2500# of cement takes
approx. 12.72 cubic feet of area. The water that we need per ACI 307
would take an area of approx. 20.64 cubic feet, for a total of 33.36
cubic feet. You're now at more than a yard before you add in the
largest volumes, which are the coarse and fine aggregates, with proper
gradation of course. So, for an F'c of 3000 psi, the aggregate total is
going to be close to approx. 10 or 12 times the amount of concrete. So
now you have a "yard" of concrete that is 400 or so cubic feet! So, I'm
really confused. Please show me where you are correct, and I am wrong.
Now remember something about that 4,000 pounds you are referring to.
There is a factor of safety involved for that number. A cubic foot of
normal weight concrete doesn't weigh 150 pounds, although that number
is thrown around alot. The actual weight of normal weight concrete is
around 125 pounds per cubic foot, or 3375 a yard. If you'll look at ACI
guidelines you'll even see that there criteria uses 125# per cubic foot
dead load for elevated slabs! And even THAT has a factor of safety.

Do you understand English?
Yes, I do. So, show me how you can get 2500# of portland cement into a
yard of concrete using the criteria set forth by A.C.I. 307, A.C.I.
301, and A.C.I. 318. Do you also want me to post some design mixes here
showing that I'm right and you are wrong about the weight of concrete?
Also, do you want to show me how you get 150# per cubic foot, when,
following guidlines by ANY applicable code in the U.S., and ACI, and
even Factory Mutual, you only need to design a structure to resist 125#
per cubic foot?

Please go back and reread this thread before you respond. You might be
able to understand the words if you read them a 2nd time.

I want YOU to tell me, in YOUR WORDS, how applicable codes, all ACI
publications that deal in the subject, Factory Mutual, as well as the
Steel Deck Institute, etc. all allow you to design elevated structures
that will resist the forces of concrete floors at #125 per cubic foot,
which equates to #3375 per yard. All of these use a factor of safety,
also. SO, how is it safe to do that, if concrete weighs #150 per cubic
foot, as you say? Tell me.


If you go back through the thread you will see that concrete's weight
can vary based upon the aggregate used. I am surprised that a PE does
not understand that. Now if you go back to the beginning of this thread
and read it very slowly you will have all of your questions answered.
They are all answered already.

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:13:24 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:




If you go back through the thread you will see that concrete's weight
can vary based upon the aggregate used. I am surprised that a PE does
not understand that. Now if you go back to the beginning of this thread
and read it very slowly you will have all of your questions answered.
They are all answered already.

Yeah, but what if I used styrofoam pellets instead of crushed limestone as
an aggregate. Wouldn't that give me a very light, air entrained concrete?
--
******************************************
***** Have a super day! *****
******************************************

John H

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Show me that concrete mix design that has 2500# of Portland
cement in
it, and weighs better than two tons, and we'll go from there.

ps When I said Portland Cement weighed approx. 2500 lbs, I was
referring
to Portland Cement, I never said or hinted that one would put
2500 lbs
of Portland Cement into a yard of concrete mix.

Have you looked over your concrete mixes to see that it is very
common
for a yard of concrete to weigh approx. 4000 lbs?

One would not expect a PE to make sure a mistake.

No, it is not. Need proof? And if I show proof, will you admit your
mistakes? And where is that 2500 pounds of Portland cement per yard
used? Please show some criteria for your two tons, and your 2500
pounds
of Portland.

I tried to be helpful and show you many links showing you the exact
weight of concrete, and the exact weight of Portland Cement, you
prefer
to ignore them. I didn't want you to continue with your
silliness, but
I should have known better. The question wasn't "is all concrete
4000
lbs per year", because there are light weight concrete mixes that
weigh
less, but as Bill said, concrete can and does weigh approx. 4000
lbs.
The fact that you fail to see this, does understand why you are not
employed.

No, you are wrong. Bill actually said that concrete weighs 5000#.
Please show what facts you have that I am not employed, first. Now,
where WERE those links that you shown that states that there is 2500#
of Portland cement in a yard of concrete? You DO know, seeing how you
are acting the expert here, that in reality, there's somewhere
around 5
bags @ 94 pounds in a typical 3,000 psi mix, for a total of 470#
don't
you? So, I'd really, really like to see this mix design that uses
2500#, because with a water/cement ratio of .53 maximum, you'd have
approx. 1,325 pounds of water. But you know this, right? Now, here's
the thing. a yard of concrete is an AREA. This 2500# of cement takes
approx. 12.72 cubic feet of area. The water that we need per ACI 307
would take an area of approx. 20.64 cubic feet, for a total of 33.36
cubic feet. You're now at more than a yard before you add in the
largest volumes, which are the coarse and fine aggregates, with
proper
gradation of course. So, for an F'c of 3000 psi, the aggregate
total is
going to be close to approx. 10 or 12 times the amount of
concrete. So
now you have a "yard" of concrete that is 400 or so cubic feet!
So, I'm
really confused. Please show me where you are correct, and I am
wrong.
Now remember something about that 4,000 pounds you are referring to.
There is a factor of safety involved for that number. A cubic foot of
normal weight concrete doesn't weigh 150 pounds, although that number
is thrown around alot. The actual weight of normal weight concrete is
around 125 pounds per cubic foot, or 3375 a yard. If you'll look
at ACI
guidelines you'll even see that there criteria uses 125# per cubic
foot
dead load for elevated slabs! And even THAT has a factor of safety.

Do you understand English?

Yes, I do. So, show me how you can get 2500# of portland cement into a
yard of concrete using the criteria set forth by A.C.I. 307, A.C.I.
301, and A.C.I. 318. Do you also want me to post some design mixes here
showing that I'm right and you are wrong about the weight of concrete?
Also, do you want to show me how you get 150# per cubic foot, when,
following guidlines by ANY applicable code in the U.S., and ACI, and
even Factory Mutual, you only need to design a structure to resist 125#
per cubic foot?

Please go back and reread this thread before you respond. You might be
able to understand the words if you read them a 2nd time.


I want YOU to tell me, in YOUR WORDS, how applicable codes, all ACI
publications that deal in the subject, Factory Mutual, as well as the
Steel Deck Institute, etc. all allow you to design elevated structures
that will resist the forces of concrete floors at #125 per cubic foot,
which equates to #3375 per yard. All of these use a factor of safety,
also. SO, how is it safe to do that, if concrete weighs #150 per cubic
foot, as you say? Tell me.


If you go back through the thread you will see that concrete's weight
can vary based upon the aggregate used. I am surprised that a PE does
not understand that. Now if you go back to the beginning of this thread
and read it very slowly you will have all of your questions answered.
They are all answered already.

LMAO.....kevin is too clueless to know the difference between normal
weight concrete and light weight concrete. Just more proof that he is
no PE.

Who should we believe......the concrete industry or the wannabe engineer ?

http://www.concretecountertops.org/m....php?itemid=33

http://www.cement.org/tech/faq_unit_weights.asp

"Concrete: Concrete is a mixture of cement, coarse and fine aggregates,
water, and sometimes supplementary cementing materials and/or chemical
admixtures. A normal weight concrete weighs approximately 2400 kg/m3
(145 lbs/ft3). The unit weight (density) of concrete varies, depending
on the amount and density of the aggregate, the amount of air that is
entrapped or purposely entrained, and the water and cement contents,
which in turn are influenced by the maximum size of the aggregate."

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...0/ai_n13824435

"By definition lightweight concrete is lighter then normal-weight
concrete, typically 110 to 115 pounds per square foot compared to about
145 psf for normal-weight concrete."

http://cee.engr.ucdavis.edu/faculty/...eci135-ho1.pdf

http://bridges.transportation.org/si...TO%20T-4NG.pdf
(slide #6)

http://www.precast.org/publications/...Aggregates.htm

http://www.prairie.com/readymix/lightconcrete.asp

"Lightweight Concrete for structural applications refers to concrete
with a density of 90-115 lb/ft³ compared to normal weight concrete of
140 - 150 lb/ft³. The concrete strength should be greater than 2,500
psi. The concrete is made with lightweight coarse aggregate and is
air-entrained. Some or all of the fine aggregate may also be
lightweight. Since these aggregates absorb moisture at a greater rate
than other aggregates, pre-wetting is required."

http://www.tx-taca.org/concretefaq.htm

"How much does concrete weigh?

Normal weight concrete weighs about 4000 lb. per cubic yard.
Lightweight concrete weighs about 3000 lb. per cubic yard."

http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/~paulmont...0_concrete.pdf
(slide 15)

http://www.daytonconcreteacc.com/pdf/Info_63.pdf

http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tabl.../Concrete.html

"Density of Concrete
Concrete is produced in a range of densities as listed below

* Plain Concrete, with natural stone aggregate ...2300 kg/m3
* Plain Concrete, with natural Broken brick aggregate...2000 kg/m3
* Reinforced Concrete, with dense aggregate ...2400 kg/m3
* Reinforced Concrete, with dense aggregate ...2400 kg/m3
* Lightweight cellular (aerated) Concrete ...641 kg/m3
* Lightweight aggregate structural grade Concrete ...1760 kg/m3
* Lightweight aggregate (structural grade) Concrete ...1760 kg/m3
* Steelshot aggregate Concrete ...5285 kg/m3"


http://www.idsi.org/pdf/COS5T.pdf

http://www.ou.edu/class/hgruenwald/t...333/4333ex.htm (question 8)

8. What is the weight of reinforced normal weight concrete? ( 2 points)

a. 115 pcf

xb. 150 pcf

c. 175 pcf

d. 380 pcf

http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/dsweb/guides_tech/tg42.pdf

http://journals.tubitak.gov.tr/engin...4-5-0602-8.pdf

Diversity is" Our" Strength
 

JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:13:24 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:


If you go back through the thread you will see that concrete's weight
can vary based upon the aggregate used. I am surprised that a PE does
not understand that. Now if you go back to the beginning of this thread
and read it very slowly you will have all of your questions answered.
They are all answered already.

Yeah, but what if I used styrofoam pellets instead of crushed limestone as
an aggregate. Wouldn't that give me a very light, air entrained concrete?
--
******************************************
***** Have a super day! *****
******************************************

John H
There is a kind of "cement" they use to reduce the sound between floors
that they use a filler that is similar to styrofoam, and yes it is very
light.