I think that we are talking apples and oranges, but I sent out a note on
the local club email list, and a couple of emails came back. One
offered a Mohawk XL13 for $600, said it was outfitted and in like new
condition. Another said he had an Encore he was not using, but did not
mention a price.

My impression is the following: The XL13 is a beginner whitewater boat,
but would probably work OK for tripping. The XL13 presumably would be a
noticeably better whitewater boat than my Camper, but not as nice as an
Outrage X or Prodigy X. The Encore is a classic solo whitewater boat,
probably an older design. I think that the Encore is around 13 feet
long, although the info on the web is limited and contradictory.

Not sure if any other boats will pop up. The XL13 is a good deal, if it
is in good condition, but I wanted a little more boat.

Richard



--
http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
Sculptures in copper and other metals

$600 seems a little steep for the XL. Although a mainly a WW kayaker, I have
a couple of XL-13's. It is a great first timers WW boat, but alot of people
keep them, also paddled an OutrageX a few times. It was lighter, and handled
very well, but I really like the XL......


"Richard Ferguson" wrote in message
...
I think that we are talking apples and oranges, but I sent out a note on
the local club email list, and a couple of emails came back. One
offered a Mohawk XL13 for $600, said it was outfitted and in like new
condition. Another said he had an Encore he was not using, but did not
mention a price.

My impression is the following: The XL13 is a beginner whitewater boat,
but would probably work OK for tripping. The XL13 presumably would be a
noticeably better whitewater boat than my Camper, but not as nice as an
Outrage X or Prodigy X. The Encore is a classic solo whitewater boat,
probably an older design. I think that the Encore is around 13 feet
long, although the info on the web is limited and contradictory.

Not sure if any other boats will pop up. The XL13 is a good deal, if it
is in good condition, but I wanted a little more boat.

Richard



--
http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
Sculptures in copper and other metals

I bought a new XL14 in 1990 for about $550, so one that's at least 10
years old for $600 doesn't sound like much of a bargain. If the entire
trip is Class II-III, the XL13 might be reasonable, but it's quite slow
and displaces a lot of water.


Richard Ferguson wrote:
I think that we are talking apples and oranges, but I sent out a note on
the local club email list, and a couple of emails came back. One
offered a Mohawk XL13 for $600, said it was outfitted and in like new
condition. Another said he had an Encore he was not using, but did not
mention a price.

My impression is the following: The XL13 is a beginner whitewater boat,
but would probably work OK for tripping. The XL13 presumably would be a
noticeably better whitewater boat than my Camper, but not as nice as an
Outrage X or Prodigy X. The Encore is a classic solo whitewater boat,
probably an older design. I think that the Encore is around 13 feet
long, although the info on the web is limited and contradictory.

Not sure if any other boats will pop up. The XL13 is a good deal, if it
is in good condition, but I wanted a little more boat.

Richard





--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Hi Richard,

These were both whitewater designs from the early 1990s. The Encore
was the "hot" boat back then - the one used by "expert" paddlers, and
is still a loved and revered design. The XL13 was the beginner boat.
The XL13 would probably make the better tripping boat.

Thanks for the comments so far. The emails keep coming in, with more
boat offers, listed below. I will go see the Encore tomorrow, probably
the best deal, depending on what he wants for it. I will probably offer
$300. If I don't like the Encore, the XL13 sounds like the next best
deal, due to condition. Some of the boats offered to me are clearly
unsuitable or overpriced.

Dagger Encore - 13.2 feet, classic solo whitewater boat, Jeff in
Boulder. Has a black plastic saddle, never mounted. He paid $500 for
it, would take less.

Mohawk XL13 - beginner whitewater boat, new condition, rigged, for $600.
John in Denver.

Wenonah Rendevous Kevlar - $1400, too much money.

Ocoee - too radical

Old Town H2Pro - Fran in Steamboat.

Dagger Impulse - 12’ 8”, mixed reviews. $550, Gail, needs new flotation
bags.

Blue Hole - model unknown, 15 or 16 feet long $600-700,


Richard Ferguson wrote:
I think that we are talking apples and oranges, but I sent out a note on
the local club email list, and a couple of emails came back. One
offered a Mohawk XL13 for $600, said it was outfitted and in like new
condition. Another said he had an Encore he was not using, but did not
mention a price.

My impression is the following: The XL13 is a beginner whitewater boat,
but would probably work OK for tripping. The XL13 presumably would be a
noticeably better whitewater boat than my Camper, but not as nice as an
Outrage X or Prodigy X. The Encore is a classic solo whitewater boat,
probably an older design. I think that the Encore is around 13 feet
long, although the info on the web is limited and contradictory.

Not sure if any other boats will pop up. The XL13 is a good deal, if it
is in good condition, but I wanted a little more boat.

Richard





--
http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
Sculptures in copper and other metals

The Old Town H2Pro is an absolute classic and would be WONDERFUL for
tripping. It's kind of a "mix" between the XL13 and the Encore. More
nimble in handling than the XL and will carry a huge payload. Grab
this boat if you can get it.

Also, if the "Blue Hole" is a solo canoe, it's probably the Sunburst
I've been raving about and would be PERFECT for whitewater tripping.
Blue Hole is an absolute classic!

On Nov 24, 3:55*pm, "Mothra" wrote:
Hi Richard,

These were both whitewater designs from the early 1990s. *The Encore
was the "hot" boat back then - the one used by "expert" paddlers, and
is still a loved and revered design. *The XL13 was the beginner boat.
The XL13 would probably make the better tripping boat.

I'll have to disagree with that statement. Both boats were developed
around the same time and the performance of both boats are very
similar. The XL13 is slower but has better secondary stability and was
always my choice of OC1's for big water. The Encore is a bit faster and
a bit narrower in the mid section, which made offside strokes a hair
easier. It is a wetter boat that the XL13, but not by much. The
carrying capacity of both boats would be nearly identical.

Even the Impulse was not a huge improvement on either boat.

The XL13 became a beginner boat because Mohawk continued to make this
boat well into the era of the much shorter and harder chined boats like
the Ocoee and Viper.

BTW, both boats were being made before 1990.

Larry

I bought the Encore for $450 with good air bags. The boat is set up
right now with a kneeling thwart. The boat is 13' 2" long and 32 inches
wide, I estimate 6 inches of rocker.

He threw in a Perception black plastic saddle, not installed. I was
originally skeptical about it, but I like the tractor seat on the back,
like the idea of being able to change positions from kneeling to
sitting, which I can do with my current boat. So I may install the
Perception, but I am going to take my time thinking about it.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Richard



Richard Ferguson wrote:
I think that we are talking apples and oranges, but I sent out a note on
the local club email list, and a couple of emails came back. One
offered a Mohawk XL13 for $600, said it was outfitted and in like new
condition. Another said he had an Encore he was not using, but did not
mention a price.

My impression is the following: The XL13 is a beginner whitewater boat,
but would probably work OK for tripping. The XL13 presumably would be a
noticeably better whitewater boat than my Camper, but not as nice as an
Outrage X or Prodigy X. The Encore is a classic solo whitewater boat,
probably an older design. I think that the Encore is around 13 feet
long, although the info on the web is limited and contradictory.

Not sure if any other boats will pop up. The XL13 is a good deal, if it
is in good condition, but I wanted a little more boat.

Richard





--
http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
Sculptures in copper and other metals

My XL's have that same saddle....it's very unstable when using it.


"Richard Ferguson" wrote in message
...
I bought the Encore for $450 with good air bags. The boat is set up
right now with a kneeling thwart. The boat is 13' 2" long and 32 inches
wide, I estimate 6 inches of rocker.

He threw in a Perception black plastic saddle, not installed. I was
originally skeptical about it, but I like the tractor seat on the back,
like the idea of being able to change positions from kneeling to
sitting, which I can do with my current boat. So I may install the
Perception, but I am going to take my time thinking about it.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Richard



Richard Ferguson wrote:
I think that we are talking apples and oranges, but I sent out a note on
the local club email list, and a couple of emails came back. One
offered a Mohawk XL13 for $600, said it was outfitted and in like new
condition. Another said he had an Encore he was not using, but did not
mention a price.

My impression is the following: The XL13 is a beginner whitewater boat,
but would probably work OK for tripping. The XL13 presumably would be a
noticeably better whitewater boat than my Camper, but not as nice as an
Outrage X or Prodigy X. The Encore is a classic solo whitewater boat,
probably an older design. I think that the Encore is around 13 feet
long, although the info on the web is limited and contradictory.

Not sure if any other boats will pop up. The XL13 is a good deal, if it
is in good condition, but I wanted a little more boat.

Richard





--
http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
Sculptures in copper and other metals

Richard Ferguson wrote:
I bought the Encore for $450 with good air bags. The boat is set up
right now with a kneeling thwart. The boat is 13' 2" long and 32 inches
wide, I estimate 6 inches of rocker.

Congratulations. Hope you enjoy it.

He threw in a Perception black plastic saddle, not installed. I was
originally skeptical about it, but I like the tractor seat on the back,
like the idea of being able to change positions from kneeling to
sitting, which I can do with my current boat. So I may install the
Perception, but I am going to take my time thinking about it.

Check the stability of the tractor seat before you commit to it, i.e.,
drill more holes. I have one in my Viper 12 and it's only useable in
very flat water.

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA