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Gun control
US Navy, so must include boats. Weapons control we can live with. http://www.whc.net/rjones/USN/USN_team.html |
Gun control
Calif Bill wrote:
US Navy, so must include boats. Weapons control we can live with. http://www.whc.net/rjones/USN/USN_team.html Thats one zero that knows not to write up his men on a AR-15. |
Gun control
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:11:47 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote: US Navy, so must include boats. Weapons control we can live with. http://www.whc.net/rjones/USN/USN_team.html Looks like they're still using the '06 Springfields - or replicas. Not bad, but I'd like to see them do a little marching. A few left and right obliques, and a counter-march or two. Then maybe some time in the scullery, just to keep them sharp. --Vic |
Gun control
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:11:47 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: US Navy, so must include boats. Weapons control we can live with. http://www.whc.net/rjones/USN/USN_team.html Looks like they're still using the '06 Springfields - or replicas. Not bad, but I'd like to see them do a little marching. A few left and right obliques, and a counter-march or two. Then maybe some time in the scullery, just to keep them sharp. --Vic Funny now, but not when it happened. Well, was still sort of funny then. Basic training at Lackland AFB, and I am a squad leader. So I am at the front, early on a Saturday morning. Cold, brain and body go to sleep while marching. Am sleepwalking. I guess the TI called a right oblique, but Calif Bill was about 150 yards from the formation when they got him woke up and stopped. Still going in a straight line. Even Sgt. Boisell had to sort of laugh at the situation. figured if not the squad leader, ody may have followed guy in front. |
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:25:01 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:11:47 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: US Navy, so must include boats. Weapons control we can live with. http://www.whc.net/rjones/USN/USN_team.html Pfffhhhtt..... Marine Corps Silent Drill Team is better. Squids.... The Army's Old Guard puts them all to shame. |
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Vic Smith wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:11:47 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: US Navy, so must include boats. Weapons control we can live with. http://www.whc.net/rjones/USN/USN_team.html Looks like they're still using the '06 Springfields - or replicas. Not bad, but I'd like to see them do a little marching. A few left and right obliques, and a counter-march or two. Then maybe some time in the scullery, just to keep them sharp. --Vic Actually that's the '03 Springfield. It's the favorite of honor guards, drill teams, etc. because of its full-length stock/handguard and its balance. I have an '03-A3, and it shoots as good as it looks. |
Gun control
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. I appreciate the skill. It's certainly nothing I could do. But I don't understand why soldiers are engaged in those kinds of activities when we are short of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Good grief Harry. We have about 140,000 military personnel in Iraq out of over 2 million total in all the armed forces. Sailors are not "soldiers", are not trained as soldiers (other than very basic weapon skills) and are normally not part of a ground based, armed, fighting force. There are some exceptions, but in general it's a fact. About a year ago the Navy sought regular service volunteers to attend some advanced training in weapons and other specific skills to serve as part of the military capability in Iraq. They got more volunteers than they needed. Eisboch |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. On 11/21/2006 8:30 AM, Eisboch wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. I appreciate the skill. It's certainly nothing I could do. But I don't understand why soldiers are engaged in those kinds of activities when we are short of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Good grief Harry. We have about 140,000 military personnel in Iraq out of over 2 million total in all the armed forces. Sailors are not "soldiers", are not trained as soldiers (other than very basic weapon skills) and are normally not part of a ground based, armed, fighting force. There are some exceptions, but in general it's a fact. About a year ago the Navy sought regular service volunteers to attend some advanced training in weapons and other specific skills to serve as part of the military capability in Iraq. They got more volunteers than they needed. Eisboch I don't mean those sailors specifically. I mean, members of the armed forces. But if sailors are not soldiers, then why do they have a small-arms drill team. Tradition. Every branch of the service has one. You raise an interesting point. If we have 2 million in uniform, why is the military rotating the same troops and guard units back to Iraq over and over? Why do we have 2 million in the military? If a majority of them are not "fighting" soldiers, sailors, marines and airforce, maybe most of those non-fighting billets should be handled by civilians. I didn't say they were not "fighting" members of the military. I said that the Navy is not typically trained for ground force fighting like the Army or Marines. But, they manage and maintain a major defense capability of the US. It takes about 4500-5000 Navy personnel to man a single aircraft carrier. Smaller ships have crews of a couple of hundred to over a thousand. The Navy also has air squadrons, pilots, maintentence staff, etc. plus numerous shore based facilities for communications and other purposes. You couldn't possibly train civilians to handle those tasks in any practical sense. Most would quit after a week. Eisboch |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. On 11/21/2006 8:50 AM, Eisboch wrote: The Navy also has air squadrons, pilots, maintentence staff, etc. plus numerous shore based facilities for communications and other purposes. You couldn't possibly train civilians to handle those tasks in any practical sense. Most would quit after a week. Eisboch Why is that? Bad management, poor working conditions? I can't speak to the other services, but I know the Navy invests a tremendous amount of money in the technical training of most of it's service members which is why a contract commitment is required. I know you will laugh ... but the military management capability is one of the most efficient I've ever seen. But they have the advantage of enforcing discipline to the job at hand and don't focus on worrying about offending someone's precious sensitivities or personal likes or dislikes. Working conditions can range from excellent to very arduous. Normally, personnel are rotated to different duty stations to even out the good and bad. Eisboch |
Gun control
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. .. On 11/21/2006 7:58 AM, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 07:32:33 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: On 11/21/2006 7:21 AM, JohnH wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:25:01 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:11:47 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: US Navy, so must include boats. Weapons control we can live with. http://www.whc.net/rjones/USN/USN_team.html Pfffhhhtt..... Marine Corps Silent Drill Team is better. Squids.... The Army's Old Guard puts them all to shame. I don't understand the purpose of these displays. Are they part of recruitment programs? It's a demonstration of martial skill with a weapon. It takes a lot of discipline, control, timing to handle weapons like that. It's like a karate kata display only with heavy wooden rifles instead of nun-chuka, swords, knifes, those tuning fork thingies, smashing blocks with you're forehead - you know. :) As to recruiting, eh - maybe it's a benefit to the recruiting process, but not by much. Of course if Charlie Rangel has his way, all those poor, uneducated, under represented social classes currently in the military will be enhanced by the draft which will force rich/middle class, educated, over represented social classes into the military thus ending the need for drill team displays if only because we all know that the rich/middle class, educated and over represented social classes would just end up throwing the rifles at each other instead of to each other. I appreciate the skill. It's certainly nothing I could do. But I don't understand why soldiers are engaged in those kinds of activities when we are short of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe the skill is handy for big funerals. Analogy: Hidden among the population like terrorist cells are legions of bagpipe players. They come out of the woodwork for police funerals in some cities. I have no idea why. My best theory is that having to listen to bagpipe music should make other cops do a better job of looking out for their partners. |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. On 11/21/2006 8:50 AM, Eisboch wrote: The Navy also has air squadrons, pilots, maintentence staff, etc. plus numerous shore based facilities for communications and other purposes. You couldn't possibly train civilians to handle those tasks in any practical sense. Most would quit after a week. Eisboch Why is that? Bad management, poor working conditions? Probably the lack of union representation to coddle and protect them. |
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On 21 Nov 2006 04:42:24 -0800, "wingspan"
wrote: Vic Smith wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:11:47 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: US Navy, so must include boats. Weapons control we can live with. http://www.whc.net/rjones/USN/USN_team.html Looks like they're still using the '06 Springfields - or replicas. Not bad, but I'd like to see them do a little marching. A few left and right obliques, and a counter-march or two. Then maybe some time in the scullery, just to keep them sharp. --Vic Actually that's the '03 Springfield. It's the favorite of honor guards, drill teams, etc. because of its full-length stock/handguard and its balance. I have an '03-A3, and it shoots as good as it looks. Right, I was off. BTW, in boot camp in '64 I worked in the armory until the chief caught me sleeping in and put me in the scullery, but not before I had stacked thousands of these things. I don't think any were capable of firing, but never tore one down. I'll tell you this, they were beautiful pieces even after taking much abuse, and I enjoyed doing some of that spinning and fancy stuff with them because of their balance. Great wood and metal. --Vic |
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 07:32:33 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: On 11/21/2006 7:21 AM, JohnH wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:25:01 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:11:47 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: US Navy, so must include boats. Weapons control we can live with. http://www.whc.net/rjones/USN/USN_team.html Pfffhhhtt..... Marine Corps Silent Drill Team is better. Squids.... The Army's Old Guard puts them all to shame. I don't understand the purpose of these displays. Are they part of recruitment programs? Maybe the audience was parents of graduating recruits. The only time I saw drill exhibitions was at graduation. Close order marching with the requisite rifle movement was the order of the day when I was in, but I do recall one guy in our company who had all the rifle spinning down pat. I don't remember that he drilled with a separate unit, and think he picked it up in HS ROTC. And I don't recall seeing rifle exhibitions when I was in boot camp. Somewhere there's an Admiral or Captain who likes this stuff, and it's his pet project. --Vic |
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:08:34 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: Oh, I do understand Rangel's purpose and why. He's building a social engineering program in a left handed manner. If anything, the current military is exactly the opposite of what he thinks it is. Uh, maybe he just liked "Stripes?" Social engineering? There is no better example of that than the military itself. Rangel just wants the full attention of the all "patriots" who wouldn't think for a moment of putting their own lives on the line. He knows that the volunteer military is best. And I've got a feeling that Rangel will do more to see that our volunteer military is going to better treated/paid, and our vets better treated than his predecessor did. Maybe I'm wrong, but we'll see how it comes up in black and white. --Vic |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. On 11/21/2006 9:46 AM, Jim wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. On 11/21/2006 8:50 AM, Eisboch wrote: The Navy also has air squadrons, pilots, maintentence staff, etc. plus numerous shore based facilities for communications and other purposes. You couldn't possibly train civilians to handle those tasks in any practical sense. Most would quit after a week. Eisboch Why is that? Bad management, poor working conditions? Probably the lack of union representation to coddle and protect them. Yes, well, since most employers don't give a tinker's dam about their workers, and since OSHA under Bush has about given up on worker safety, it's good that some organization is looking out for workers. Thanks Harry. I needed a good laugh. |
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:05:27 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: Pomp and circumstance, I guess. Exactly. --Vic |
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:36:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: Maybe the skill is handy for big funerals. Analogy: Hidden among the population like terrorist cells are legions of bagpipe players. They come out of the woodwork for police funerals in some cities. I have no idea why. My best theory is that having to listen to bagpipe music should make other cops do a better job of looking out for their partners. LMAO --Vic |
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Harry Krause wrote: I don't mean those sailors specifically. I mean, members of the armed forces. But if sailors are not soldiers, then why do they have a small-arms drill team. Tradition? Back in the days when naval combat routinely involved boarding or being boarded, every man aboard was expected to be at least proficient with close quarter weapons. Rifles wouldn't have been much use once at deck level once the enemy was aboard, but snipers up in the rigging were instrumental in bringing down enemy officers, enemy sailors on either ship, and of course the enemy's own snipers up in the rigging. As everybody knows, these naval riflemen were often called "marines" and that explains why the Marine Corp was (still is?) a department of the Navy. The drill exercise promotes discipline, attention to detail, precision of execution, and suppression of individual will, opinion, and attitude in favor of the mission or function of the unit. All highly useful in a military environment. |
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"Vic Smith" wrote in message
... On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:36:13 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: Maybe the skill is handy for big funerals. Analogy: Hidden among the population like terrorist cells are legions of bagpipe players. They come out of the woodwork for police funerals in some cities. I have no idea why. My best theory is that having to listen to bagpipe music should make other cops do a better job of looking out for their partners. LMAO --Vic I knew you'd like that. :-) |
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:39:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: You raise an interesting point. If we have 2 million in uniform, why is the military rotating the same troops and guard units back to Iraq over and over? Why do we have 2 million in the military? If a majority of them are not "fighting" soldiers, sailors, marines and airforce, maybe most of those non-fighting billets should be handled by civilians. Haliburton maybe? Maybe I'm wrong, but I see the increasing privatization of the military as a bad move. An Arab food worker blowing up himself and some of our guys in a green zone mess hall was an eye-opener for me. Having large deployments of military not be self-sufficient allows for too many vulnerabilities. My experience is navy only, and a while back, but the only civvies I ever saw on ship/base was yardworkers. And frankly, I always had an odd feeling seeing yardbirds on my ship. It made me a bit uncomfortable to think I was depending on them - in this case boilermakers - for my safety. I knew these guys were specialists, but it still gave me an odd feeling. BTW, I would sometimes grab a hardhat, apron and safety glasses of a yardbird after they broke for the day, put them on and walk around the ship goofing on crewmates, like showing them a big wrench and mumbling, "where is the ASROC launcher, I need to fix the nukes." Even guys who knew me for years didn't recognize me. Somebody should have arrested me. --Vic |
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Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 07:32:33 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: On 11/21/2006 7:21 AM, JohnH wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:25:01 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:11:47 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: US Navy, so must include boats. Weapons control we can live with. http://www.whc.net/rjones/USN/USN_team.html Pfffhhhtt..... Marine Corps Silent Drill Team is better. Squids.... The Army's Old Guard puts them all to shame. I don't understand the purpose of these displays. Are they part of recruitment programs? It's a demonstration of martial skill with a weapon. It takes a lot of discipline, control, timing to handle weapons like that. It's like a karate kata display only with heavy wooden rifles instead of nun-chuka, swords, knifes, those tuning fork thingies, smashing blocks with you're forehead - you know. :) That's not REAL world karate. Just a display of karate, much like the dancing with fake guns is just a display. |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Yes, well, since most employers don't give a tinker's dam about their workers, and since OSHA under Bush has about given up on worker safety, it's good that some organization is looking out for workers. LOL. For a smart guy, you sure say some dumb things sometimes. Eisboch |
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Eisboch wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Yes, well, since most employers don't give a tinker's dam about their workers, and since OSHA under Bush has about given up on worker safety, it's good that some organization is looking out for workers. LOL. For a smart guy, you sure say some dumb things sometimes. Eisboch Eisboch, I used to believe Harry just said this stuff for shock value. Today, I think Harry actually believes what he writes. If Harry was a smart guy at one time, he is now suffering from old man brain syndrome. ;) |
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Maybe the skill is handy for big funerals. Analogy: Hidden among the population like terrorist cells are legions of bagpipe players. They come out of the woodwork for police funerals in some cities. I have no idea why. My best theory is that having to listen to bagpipe music should make other cops do a better job of looking out for their partners. Shame on ya, McBedroom. I've been taking bagpipe lessons for a couple of years, and I'm just now about to graduate from the practice chanter to something with an actual bag. I can extract house-rockin' music from anything with a keyboard, blow a wicked blues harp, and while I sold my last guitar about 30 years ago I could get my chops back with a few months of practice. Learning the pipes is like learning a foreign language after speaking English for 50 years. The western scale? Forget it. Staff notation? Yeah, but don't pay strict attention to the note values because one of the things a piper has to know is what the notation actually means, inspite of how it reads. It usually takes me 3-6 months to get adequately proficient on a musical instrument. The pipes will humble ya, that's for sure. A lot of people who dislike bagpipe music have never heard it played well. That's pretty understandable, as even with only a 9-note scale this is certainly the most difficult, tempermental, frustrating, and rewarding instrument I have ever attempted- and I'm only just about to begin dealing with the mechanics of the bag and drones. No wonder it's popular in Scotland, that's where they invented that other nearly impossible and demanding pastime that only a few can do well, golf. The police and fire departments are paramilitary organizations, and the bagpipe has a long history of association with military manuevers. Often said to be the loudest of all instruments, the pipes were often used to signal tactical changes on the battlefield. The pipes would be used to play a lament when the dead were buried following a battle. Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into battle they often have the piper on point. :-) Did you like Ravi Shankar back in the 60's? If so, you would learn to like bagpipes pretty quickly. If not, you will probably be among that group who just "don't get it". (Members of that group are often described as "sane")... Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS Ground. A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the shuttle pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately loud. http://www.hendersongroupltd.com/buy/3df.html |
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"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com... JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Maybe the skill is handy for big funerals. Analogy: Hidden among the population like terrorist cells are legions of bagpipe players. They come out of the woodwork for police funerals in some cities. I have no idea why. My best theory is that having to listen to bagpipe music should make other cops do a better job of looking out for their partners. Shame on ya, McBedroom. I've been taking bagpipe lessons for a couple of years, and I'm just now about to graduate from the practice chanter to something with an actual bag. I can extract house-rockin' music from anything with a keyboard, blow a wicked blues harp, and while I sold my last guitar about 30 years ago I could get my chops back with a few months of practice. Learning the pipes is like learning a foreign language after speaking English for 50 years. The western scale? Forget it. Staff notation? Yeah, but don't pay strict attention to the note values because one of the things a piper has to know is what the notation actually means, inspite of how it reads. It usually takes me 3-6 months to get adequately proficient on a musical instrument. The pipes will humble ya, that's for sure. A lot of people who dislike bagpipe music have never heard it played well. That's pretty understandable, as even with only a 9-note scale this is certainly the most difficult, tempermental, frustrating, and rewarding instrument I have ever attempted- and I'm only just about to begin dealing with the mechanics of the bag and drones. No wonder it's popular in Scotland, that's where they invented that other nearly impossible and demanding pastime that only a few can do well, golf. The police and fire departments are paramilitary organizations, and the bagpipe has a long history of association with military manuevers. Often said to be the loudest of all instruments, the pipes were often used to signal tactical changes on the battlefield. The pipes would be used to play a lament when the dead were buried following a battle. Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into battle they often have the piper on point. :-) Did you like Ravi Shankar back in the 60's? If so, you would learn to like bagpipes pretty quickly. If not, you will probably be among that group who just "don't get it". (Members of that group are often described as "sane")... Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS Ground. A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the shuttle pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately loud. http://www.hendersongroupltd.com/buy/3df.html Chuck, there is no similarity between Indian and bagpipe music. Don't be silly. :-) |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... On 11/21/2006 11:08 AM, Eisboch wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Yes, well, since most employers don't give a tinker's dam about their workers, and since OSHA under Bush has about given up on worker safety, it's good that some organization is looking out for workers. LOL. For a smart guy, you sure say some dumb things sometimes. Eisboch You haven't been following the demise of worker safety. I have. Perhaps you can cite some facts........pick any industry. |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... On 11/21/2006 11:08 AM, Eisboch wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Yes, well, since most employers don't give a tinker's dam about their workers, and since OSHA under Bush has about given up on worker safety, it's good that some organization is looking out for workers. LOL. For a smart guy, you sure say some dumb things sometimes. Eisboch You haven't been following the demise of worker safety. I have. I am referring to your claim that "most employers don't give a tinker's dam(n) about their workers." That's a very broad statement, there Mr. Eisboch |
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Chuck Gould wrote:
Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into battle they often have the piper on point. :-) That wasn't by chance. Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS Ground. A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the shuttle pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately loud. What's "inappropriately loud" mean? I happen to like bagpipe music, but it may be a genetically acquired taste. A friend of mine has said that the best thing about bagpipe music is that it serves as a warning: "Men in kilts approaching." DSK |
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"DSK" wrote in message
... Chuck Gould wrote: Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into battle they often have the piper on point. :-) That wasn't by chance. Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS Ground. A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the shuttle pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately loud. What's "inappropriately loud" mean? Example: One band I'm playing with. We practice in a 12x15 room. One guitarist has a 4x12 Marshall cabinet and an amp head that could be used to play a rather large room. He doesn't know how to turn it down. When he's really out of hand, I can feel the legs of my jeans actually moving. I'm giving him two more speeches about how this will not fly in small clubs. The band will never be hired a second time. If he doesn't get it, I'm gone. I use a custom made set of Etymotic ear plugs. It's not enough protection around this guy. Bagpipes can be equally scary. Almost. |
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Chuck Gould wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Maybe the skill is handy for big funerals. Analogy: Hidden among the population like terrorist cells are legions of bagpipe players. They come out of the woodwork for police funerals in some cities. I have no idea why. My best theory is that having to listen to bagpipe music should make other cops do a better job of looking out for their partners. Shame on ya, McBedroom. I've been taking bagpipe lessons for a couple of years, and I'm just now about to graduate from the practice chanter to something with an actual bag. I can extract house-rockin' music from anything with a keyboard, blow a wicked blues harp, and while I sold my last guitar about 30 years ago I could get my chops back with a few months of practice. Learning the pipes is like learning a foreign language after speaking English for 50 years. The western scale? Forget it. Staff notation? Yeah, but don't pay strict attention to the note values because one of the things a piper has to know is what the notation actually means, inspite of how it reads. It usually takes me 3-6 months to get adequately proficient on a musical instrument. The pipes will humble ya, that's for sure. While I understand that the pipes are a very hard instrument to learn and be GOOD at, your remark about notation applies to any and every instrument, not just pipes. That's what makes music uniquely yours, whether or not you simply know enough to copy verbatim someone else's playing, or make it yours. |
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:49:59 -0500, DSK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote: Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into battle they often have the piper on point. :-) That wasn't by chance. Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS Ground. A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the shuttle pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately loud. What's "inappropriately loud" mean? Audible? I happen to like bagpipe music, but it may be a genetically acquired taste. A friend of mine has said that the best thing about bagpipe music is that it serves as a warning: "Men in kilts approaching." I like it too, but normally only hear it from police funerals, and documentaries about Scotland. Chuck's post has got me interested in it a bit, and I think I'll listen to some recordings. Or maybe look up an old buddy and record some myself. One of us would do the background drone and the other would vocalize da dada da da, dada dada. No bagpipes used, but it was fun. --Vic |
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"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com... Chuck Gould wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Maybe the skill is handy for big funerals. Analogy: Hidden among the population like terrorist cells are legions of bagpipe players. They come out of the woodwork for police funerals in some cities. I have no idea why. My best theory is that having to listen to bagpipe music should make other cops do a better job of looking out for their partners. Shame on ya, McBedroom. I've been taking bagpipe lessons for a couple of years, and I'm just now about to graduate from the practice chanter to something with an actual bag. I can extract house-rockin' music from anything with a keyboard, blow a wicked blues harp, and while I sold my last guitar about 30 years ago I could get my chops back with a few months of practice. Learning the pipes is like learning a foreign language after speaking English for 50 years. The western scale? Forget it. Staff notation? Yeah, but don't pay strict attention to the note values because one of the things a piper has to know is what the notation actually means, inspite of how it reads. It usually takes me 3-6 months to get adequately proficient on a musical instrument. The pipes will humble ya, that's for sure. While I understand that the pipes are a very hard instrument to learn and be GOOD at, your remark about notation applies to any and every instrument, not just pipes. That's what makes music uniquely yours, whether or not you simply know enough to copy verbatim someone else's playing, or make it yours. At a jam session last summer, a guy handed me his violin and said "Here...give it a try". I came close to being either beaten up, or arrested. |
Gun control
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... Chuck Gould wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Maybe the skill is handy for big funerals. Analogy: Hidden among the population like terrorist cells are legions of bagpipe players. They come out of the woodwork for police funerals in some cities. I have no idea why. My best theory is that having to listen to bagpipe music should make other cops do a better job of looking out for their partners. Shame on ya, McBedroom. I've been taking bagpipe lessons for a couple of years, and I'm just now about to graduate from the practice chanter to something with an actual bag. I can extract house-rockin' music from anything with a keyboard, blow a wicked blues harp, and while I sold my last guitar about 30 years ago I could get my chops back with a few months of practice. Learning the pipes is like learning a foreign language after speaking English for 50 years. The western scale? Forget it. Staff notation? Yeah, but don't pay strict attention to the note values because one of the things a piper has to know is what the notation actually means, inspite of how it reads. It usually takes me 3-6 months to get adequately proficient on a musical instrument. The pipes will humble ya, that's for sure. While I understand that the pipes are a very hard instrument to learn and be GOOD at, your remark about notation applies to any and every instrument, not just pipes. That's what makes music uniquely yours, whether or not you simply know enough to copy verbatim someone else's playing, or make it yours. At a jam session last summer, a guy handed me his violin and said "Here...give it a try". I came close to being either beaten up, or arrested. That's a perfect example! My daughter is taking violin lessons at school. I play guitar and have for quite a long time. I figured it couldn't be too hard to play violin being how I have a strong string instrument background. I learned the fretboard, etc. and still just REALLY sucked at it! It's intonation is SO much different than a guitar! |
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "DSK" wrote in message ... Chuck Gould wrote: Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into battle they often have the piper on point. :-) That wasn't by chance. Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS Ground. A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the shuttle pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately loud. What's "inappropriately loud" mean? Example: One band I'm playing with. We practice in a 12x15 room. One guitarist has a 4x12 Marshall cabinet and an amp head that could be used to play a rather large room. He doesn't know how to turn it down. When he's really out of hand, I can feel the legs of my jeans actually moving. I'm giving him two more speeches about how this will not fly in small clubs. The band will never be hired a second time. If he doesn't get it, I'm gone. I use a custom made set of Etymotic ear plugs. It's not enough protection around this guy. Bagpipes can be equally scary. Almost. My brother does sound for a couple of bands as well as make sound systems for some. A few years back, he had that problem with a band he was doing sound for, they just couldn't understand that in a small club, or even in a large venue, volume, and lots of it, doesn't make GOOD sound. You have to match the sound with the room. Of course, they kind of sucked anyway, so they needed distorted volume to sound like they had at least some talent! Have you ever been to Grassroots Fest? http://www.grassrootsfest.org/ I went years ago, when the only one was in Trumansburg. |
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"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com... JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "DSK" wrote in message ... Chuck Gould wrote: Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into battle they often have the piper on point. :-) That wasn't by chance. Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS Ground. A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the shuttle pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately loud. What's "inappropriately loud" mean? Example: One band I'm playing with. We practice in a 12x15 room. One guitarist has a 4x12 Marshall cabinet and an amp head that could be used to play a rather large room. He doesn't know how to turn it down. When he's really out of hand, I can feel the legs of my jeans actually moving. I'm giving him two more speeches about how this will not fly in small clubs. The band will never be hired a second time. If he doesn't get it, I'm gone. I use a custom made set of Etymotic ear plugs. It's not enough protection around this guy. Bagpipes can be equally scary. Almost. My brother does sound for a couple of bands as well as make sound systems for some. A few years back, he had that problem with a band he was doing sound for, they just couldn't understand that in a small club, or even in a large venue, volume, and lots of it, doesn't make GOOD sound. You have to match the sound with the room. Of course, they kind of sucked anyway, so they needed distorted volume to sound like they had at least some talent! Have you ever been to Grassroots Fest? http://www.grassrootsfest.org/ I went years ago, when the only one was in Trumansburg. Long time ago - mainly to see Taj Mahal. |
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What's "inappropriately loud" mean?
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Example: One band I'm playing with. We practice in a 12x15 room. One guitarist has a 4x12 Marshall cabinet and an amp head that could be used to play a rather large room. He doesn't know how to turn it down. That's not "inappropriately loud" that's just a guy who may (or may not) be a great guitar player but doesn't have a clue how to play WITH a band. Dynamics, man, dynamics! Just say to him, "You ever notice how sometimes, really really good bands play soft? It, like, emphasiszes certain parts of the song, plus it makes the loud parts sound even louder." If you can get this point across, you'll be doing hims a huge favor. It's part of learning to actually PLAY rather than just hurling a lot of notes around. DSK |
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"DSK" wrote in message
... What's "inappropriately loud" mean? JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Example: One band I'm playing with. We practice in a 12x15 room. One guitarist has a 4x12 Marshall cabinet and an amp head that could be used to play a rather large room. He doesn't know how to turn it down. That's not "inappropriately loud" that's just a guy who may (or may not) be a great guitar player but doesn't have a clue how to play WITH a band. Let's put it this way: Blues only sells in a small number of clubs here. In those places, these volume levels will clear the room, and the band won't get jobs. Since they searched for 4 months to find a bass player (me), I think I have some leverage to teach new behavior. What's appropriate is directly related to sales, which many artists don't like to think about. |
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Chuck, there is no similarity between Indian and bagpipe music. Don't be silly. :-) Actually a lot more than one might immediately recognize. Non western scale, non western timing, played against a drone. The bagpipes originated in Asia or the middle east, crossed into Europe through Turkey, and some old drawings of Emperor Nero show him playing a musical instrument where pipes are regulated by pressure from an orally inflated bag. The bagpipes were "rediscovered" by western European crusaders about 900 years ago. Imagine "belly dancing" music instead of "Scotland the Brave" coming from the pipes, (the sound is absolutely right for it), and it's easier to get around the Celtic stereotypes. Bagpipers have always been a bit disreputable, either that or not highly appreciated by their audiences. At various times and under various monarchs, performing on the bagpipe was punishable by death. Sign on an olde English Inn; "No bagpypers, harlets, or thyves allow'd" Now by next summer I should be adequately skilled with bag and drones to stand in the cockpit and play a tune or two just as the sun sets on a wilderness anchorage. Suppose my neighboring boaters would have an "opinion" or two if I dared? :-) |
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "DSK" wrote in message ... Chuck Gould wrote: Did the ancient armies actually like bagpipe music? Hard to say. All I know is that when you see drawings of some of the units marching into battle they often have the piper on point. :-) That wasn't by chance. Here's a look at the audio torture device enroute to me via UPS Ground. A "shuttle pipe" is not quite as loud as a Great Highland, but sounds about the same. Biggest difference is that you can practice the shuttle pipes indoors or play in a small room without being inappropriately loud. What's "inappropriately loud" mean? Example: One band I'm playing with. We practice in a 12x15 room. One guitarist has a 4x12 Marshall cabinet and an amp head that could be used to play a rather large room. He doesn't know how to turn it down. When he's really out of hand, I can feel the legs of my jeans actually moving. I'm giving him two more speeches about how this will not fly in small clubs. The band will never be hired a second time. If he doesn't get it, I'm gone. I use a custom made set of Etymotic ear plugs. It's not enough protection around this guy. Bagpipes can be equally scary. Almost. My brother does sound for a couple of bands as well as make sound systems for some. A few years back, he had that problem with a band he was doing sound for, they just couldn't understand that in a small club, or even in a large venue, volume, and lots of it, doesn't make GOOD sound. You have to match the sound with the room. Of course, they kind of sucked anyway, so they needed distorted volume to sound like they had at least some talent! Have you ever been to Grassroots Fest? http://www.grassrootsfest.org/ I went years ago, when the only one was in Trumansburg. Long time ago - mainly to see Taj Mahal. I saw Donna the Buffalo before they were anything! |
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On 21 Nov 2006 09:53:48 -0800, "Chuck Gould"
wrote: The bagpipes originated in Asia or the middle east, crossed into Europe through Turkey, and some old drawings of Emperor Nero show him playing a musical instrument where pipes are regulated by pressure from an orally inflated bag. The bagpipes were "rediscovered" by western European crusaders about 900 years ago. Imagine "belly dancing" music instead of "Scotland the Brave" coming from the pipes, (the sound is absolutely right for it), and it's easier to get around the Celtic stereotypes. Bagpipers have always been a bit disreputable, either that or not highly appreciated by their audiences. At various times and under various monarchs, performing on the bagpipe was punishable by death. Sign on an olde English Inn; "No bagpypers, harlets, or thyves allow'd" I mentioned this thread to my wife, who grew up in Poland, and whose family had many musicians. She started talking about Polish bagpipes. This was new to me since I always associated bagpipes with Scots only. I then googled bagpipe history and learned more than I really wanted to about this "instrument of peasants." Anyway, I'm getting more music, military, union and turkey cooking info here than I anticipated when first coming here. No complaints. --Vic |
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