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Deep Cycle vs. Trolling Batteries
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:19:30 +0000, kcb559 wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net... "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:47:42 +0000, BinaryBillThesailo wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:09:29 -0700, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:09:40 +0000, BinaryBillTheSailo wrote: On 20 Aug 2003 00:50:01 -0700, (kcb559) wrote: What is the difference between a Deep Cycle battery and a Trolling battery? I'm buying a Minn Kota Endura 30 electric trolling motor and can't decide on the battery. Even the salesman gives an unsure answer as to the difference between the two. Which one do I buy??? -KCB The difference you want to look at is between a trolling and a starting battery. There are some batteries that even claim to be both. What you want is a deep cycle battery that is specifically designed for trolling. Otherwise your motor will run like a rabbit for about 30 minutes and then taper off quickly. Actually, the motor will run identically between deepcyle/trolling and starting. Sorry Lloyd, but you are incorrect on that point. Why? Does the deep cycle have different volts? Ohms law doesn't apply? Lloyd Same volts, just different time of availability. The Deep cycle has a heavier, reinforced plate system. Allows more discharge and the ability to recharge without the plates warping, and shorting together. The Starting batt has more surface area, for high current flow for a short time. SO, BASICALLY A DEEP CYCLE BATTERY AND A TROLLING BATTERY ARE THE SAME THING AND WILL BOTH LAST ME LONGER (DUE TO THE NUMBER OF RECHARGES AVAILABLE)THAN A STARTING BATTERY; HOWEVER, WITH THAT SMALL ENDURA 30, A STARTING BATTERY WOULD WORK OKAY (ALTHOUGH IT WOULDN'T LAST AS LONG) IF I KEPT THE SPEED DOWN AND DIDN'T ASK IT TO WORK TOO HARD. IS THAT ABOUT IT? -KCB Kinda true. A starting battery will work OK if you don't discharge it deeply. You can run "full-throttle" but only for maybe 1/2-hr, then recharge. It STILL won't last as long as a deep-cycle, but I've been doing that for 3 yrs now and the battery still works. One other thing: a "deep discharge" on a starting battery will reduce it's capacity much more than it will for a deep-cycle. Ie. you run a starting battery dead once, and it will have maybe 50 A-H capacity rather than the 80 it had before. Spend the extra $20 and get the deep-cycle. Lloyd |
Deep Cycle vs. Trolling Batteries
"kcb559" wrote in message Tom SO, BASICALLY A DEEP CYCLE BATTERY AND A TROLLING BATTERY ARE THE SAME THING AND WILL BOTH LAST ME LONGER (DUE TO THE NUMBER OF RECHARGES AVAILABLE)THAN A STARTING BATTERY; HOWEVER, WITH THAT SMALL ENDURA 30, A STARTING BATTERY WOULD WORK OKAY (ALTHOUGH IT WOULDN'T LAST AS LONG) IF I KEPT THE SPEED DOWN AND DIDN'T ASK IT TO WORK TOO HARD. IS THAT ABOUT IT? -KCB No, the starting battery will be very prone to failure after the 2 or 3rd recharge. The plates warp and short out. If you get a Wal-mart or some other 6 month full replacement battery, you may be ok on your money, but every couple of months you will have to take the battery in. The difference in price is negligible. A deep cycle group 27 at Costco is about $53. Group 24 a couple of bucks cheaper. Wally world is probably in the same price range. Bill |
Deep Cycle vs. Trolling Batteries
"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"kcb559" wrote in message Tom SO, BASICALLY A DEEP CYCLE BATTERY AND A TROLLING BATTERY ARE THE SAME THING AND WILL BOTH LAST ME LONGER (DUE TO THE NUMBER OF RECHARGES AVAILABLE)THAN A STARTING BATTERY; HOWEVER, WITH THAT SMALL ENDURA 30, A STARTING BATTERY WOULD WORK OKAY (ALTHOUGH IT WOULDN'T LAST AS LONG) IF I KEPT THE SPEED DOWN AND DIDN'T ASK IT TO WORK TOO HARD. IS THAT ABOUT IT? -KCB No, the starting battery will be very prone to failure after the 2 or 3rd recharge. The plates warp and short out. If you get a Wal-mart or some other 6 month full replacement battery, you may be ok on your money, but every couple of months you will have to take the battery in. The difference in price is negligible. A deep cycle group 27 at Costco is about $53. Group 24 a couple of bucks cheaper. Wally world is probably in the same price range. Bill ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I was in Wal*Mart the other day and their starting batteries carry a TWO-YEAR FREE REPLACEMENT warranty. Wonder how many batteries before they'd get tired of giving me yet another new one? 5, 10, 15? LOL... -KCB |
Deep Cycle vs. Trolling Batteries
OKAY, I'VE FINALLY MADE A DECISION. I'M BUYING A DEEP CYCLE BATTERY.
NOW, NEXT ITEM...A 24 OR A 27 SERIES TO USE WITH THE MINN KOTA ENDURA 30? ALSO, AMP HOURS? IF I RUN THAT LITTLE ELECTRIC TROLLING MOTOR AT MIDDLE SPEED WITH EACH, APPROXIMATELY WHAT WOULD I NEED IN AMP HOURS TO TOOL AROUND THAT LAKE FOR 4 HOURS? -KCB If wieght and space aren't critical, go for the biggest battery available. Better to have the capacity and not need it, than to need it and........... |
Deep Cycle vs. Trolling Batteries
OKAY, I'VE FINALLY MADE A DECISION. I'M BUYING A DEEP CYCLE BATTERY. NOW, NEXT ITEM...A 24 OR A 27 SERIES TO USE WITH THE MINN KOTA ENDURA I would get 2 24's and have a perko switch so I can switch to either battery or both! Larry Hill |
Deep Cycle vs. Trolling Batteries
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:09:40 +0000, BinaryBillTheSailo wrote: On 20 Aug 2003 00:50:01 -0700, (kcb559) wrote: What is the difference between a Deep Cycle battery and a Trolling battery? I'm buying a Minn Kota Endura 30 electric trolling motor and can't decide on the battery. Even the salesman gives an unsure answer as to the difference between the two. Which one do I buy??? -KCB The difference you want to look at is between a trolling and a starting battery. There are some batteries that even claim to be both. What you want is a deep cycle battery that is specifically designed for trolling. Otherwise your motor will run like a rabbit for about 30 minutes and then taper off quickly. Actually, the motor will run identically between deepcyle/trolling and starting. The difference is, the 4th or 5th time you run the battery down to "dead", the starting battery won't come back up, but the deepcyle will. The 22NF battery I use on my Endura 30 is a "starting" battery, and it runs the motor fine. I just don't let it run down to more than maybe 50%. I still expect it to not last that long, but it's on it's 3rd year now... (It was a "Proof of Concept" purchase: I wanted the cheapest I could buy in case it didn't work out.) Lloyd Lloyd I've found that a deep cycle works ok for starting but, a starting battery actually cranks the engine faster. Rick |
Deep Cycle vs. Trolling Batteries
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 11:09:23 +0000, BinaryBil wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 21:03:26 -0700, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 20:33:59 +0000, kcb559 wrote: (kcb559) wrote in message . com... "Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net... "kcb559" wrote in message Tom SO, BASICALLY A DEEP CYCLE BATTERY AND A TROLLING BATTERY ARE THE SAME THING AND WILL BOTH LAST ME LONGER (DUE TO THE NUMBER OF RECHARGES AVAILABLE)THAN A STARTING BATTERY; HOWEVER, WITH THAT SMALL ENDURA 30, A STARTING BATTERY WOULD WORK OKAY (ALTHOUGH IT WOULDN'T LAST AS LONG) IF I KEPT THE SPEED DOWN AND DIDN'T ASK IT TO WORK TOO HARD. IS THAT ABOUT IT? -KCB No, the starting battery will be very prone to failure after the 2 or 3rd recharge. The plates warp and short out. If you get a Wal-mart or some other 6 month full replacement battery, you may be ok on your money, but every couple of months you will have to take the battery in. The difference in price is negligible. A deep cycle group 27 at Costco is about $53. Group 24 a couple of bucks cheaper. Wally world is probably in the same price range. Bill ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I was in Wal*Mart the other day and their starting batteries carry a TWO-YEAR FREE REPLACEMENT warranty. Wonder how many batteries before they'd get tired of giving me yet another new one? 5, 10, 15? LOL... -KCB ################################################## ####################### OKAY, I'VE FINALLY MADE A DECISION. I'M BUYING A DEEP CYCLE BATTERY. NOW, NEXT ITEM...A 24 OR A 27 SERIES TO USE WITH THE MINN KOTA ENDURA 30? ALSO, AMP HOURS? IF I RUN THAT LITTLE ELECTRIC TROLLING MOTOR AT MIDDLE SPEED WITH EACH, APPROXIMATELY WHAT WOULD I NEED IN AMP HOURS TO TOOL AROUND THAT LAKE FOR 4 HOURS? -KCB This is something I'm going to research and post my findings on the web (or sell them to Minn Kota!). The closest thing to "amp-hrs" that they admit to is "max amps", but it doesn't make sense (the 12V, 40-lb motor supposedly draws more than the 50-lb model!). I will measure current draw at various speeds for both my 30-lb Endura and 40-lb Maxum. Until then...The Endura is supposed to draw 30A "max", so say 30A at setting 5. I THINK, based on the little chart on the top, setting 4 would be about 15-20A max, 3 would be about 12, 2 maybe 8, and 1 4 (something like that). So at setting 3, you would use 48 amp-hours in 4 hrs. More meaningless guesswork from Lloyd, who really hasn't much of a clue. The Maxum line of motors have an entirely different motor control system. The Maxum's use PWM and infinitely variable control, (they call it "Maximizer") while the less expensive and less efficient Endura series use a plain old 5 position switch and resistance to control speed. This makes a HUGE difference in how long each motor will run at anything other than maximum WOT. What's the EXACT current draw from A) the 30-lb Endura at position 3, and B) the 40-lb Maximizer at 60% ? Lloyd |
Deep Cycle vs. Trolling Batteries
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 11:09:23 +0000, BinaryBil wrote: On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 21:03:26 -0700, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 20:33:59 +0000, kcb559 wrote: (kcb559) wrote in message . com... "Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net... "kcb559" wrote in message Tom SO, BASICALLY A DEEP CYCLE BATTERY AND A TROLLING BATTERY ARE THE SAME THING AND WILL BOTH LAST ME LONGER (DUE TO THE NUMBER OF RECHARGES AVAILABLE)THAN A STARTING BATTERY; HOWEVER, WITH THAT SMALL ENDURA 30, A STARTING BATTERY WOULD WORK OKAY (ALTHOUGH IT WOULDN'T LAST AS LONG) IF I KEPT THE SPEED DOWN AND DIDN'T ASK IT TO WORK TOO HARD. IS THAT ABOUT IT? -KCB No, the starting battery will be very prone to failure after the 2 or 3rd recharge. The plates warp and short out. If you get a Wal-mart or some other 6 month full replacement battery, you may be ok on your money, but every couple of months you will have to take the battery in. The difference in price is negligible. A deep cycle group 27 at Costco is about $53. Group 24 a couple of bucks cheaper. Wally world is probably in the same price range. Bill ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I was in Wal*Mart the other day and their starting batteries carry a TWO-YEAR FREE REPLACEMENT warranty. Wonder how many batteries before they'd get tired of giving me yet another new one? 5, 10, 15? LOL... -KCB ################################################## ####################### OKAY, I'VE FINALLY MADE A DECISION. I'M BUYING A DEEP CYCLE BATTERY. NOW, NEXT ITEM...A 24 OR A 27 SERIES TO USE WITH THE MINN KOTA ENDURA 30? ALSO, AMP HOURS? IF I RUN THAT LITTLE ELECTRIC TROLLING MOTOR AT MIDDLE SPEED WITH EACH, APPROXIMATELY WHAT WOULD I NEED IN AMP HOURS TO TOOL AROUND THAT LAKE FOR 4 HOURS? -KCB This is something I'm going to research and post my findings on the web (or sell them to Minn Kota!). The closest thing to "amp-hrs" that they admit to is "max amps", but it doesn't make sense (the 12V, 40-lb motor supposedly draws more than the 50-lb model!). I will measure current draw at various speeds for both my 30-lb Endura and 40-lb Maxum. Until then...The Endura is supposed to draw 30A "max", so say 30A at setting 5. I THINK, based on the little chart on the top, setting 4 would be about 15-20A max, 3 would be about 12, 2 maybe 8, and 1 4 (something like that). So at setting 3, you would use 48 amp-hours in 4 hrs. More meaningless guesswork from Lloyd, who really hasn't much of a clue. The Maxum line of motors have an entirely different motor control system. The Maxum's use PWM and infinitely variable control, (they call it "Maximizer") while the less expensive and less efficient Endura series use a plain old 5 position switch and resistance to control speed. This makes a HUGE difference in how long each motor will run at anything other than maximum WOT. What's the EXACT current draw from A) the 30-lb Endura at position 3, and B) the 40-lb Maximizer at 60% ? Lloyd Probably less with the Maximizer if they both are at the same thrust. The Maximizer gives full voltage to the motor at all times via a pulsed DC and reducing the duty cycle vs. the other motors give a reduced voltage via a resistor to slow the motor down. The resistor burns up energy as heat, therefore less time from the same battery. The pulsed DC has an effective voltage less than the 12V's but the reduced voltage is not wasted as heat. If you want all the numbers and formulas, I could probably go through my college stuff and dig up my senior thesis where I disigned and built an underwater dive light with an intensity control via a 555 timer and same principals. Bill |
Deep Cycle vs. Trolling Batteries
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